Instead of merge, why not go full F2P?

[Zionxi-KT]

Y’all care to much about what someone else does with their money. Just cuz they have Kinah and you don’t doesn’t make them better. Sure they can LR stuff. But you can grind it without paying for it. Once they have pots and scrolls and gear. All they do it spend Kinah on consumables. It’s not game breaking to make 1m a day with candies. Or to even have Kinah. P2w would be if they put ap relics and medals on quna shop. Or gear/acc on quna. Kinah isn’t hard to make. Just spend some time gathering or farming. You can make Kinah cap every day if you spend about an hour farming elites or even brush mobs. Boys aren’t that rampant in brush/Theo. Stop complaining and farm. And stop worrying about what other people are spending their money on. Sorry you’re a broke nyerk. Lol

[Arhangelos]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:17 AM, Yoloranger said:

People are free to spend their money however they wish.  Fast cars go fast.  Deal with it

Of course they are free to spend, and people are also free to quit the game when they can't afford to buy a manastone because the rich kid bought them all in a social game where you strive to be the best.

Also don't confuse the people that ask for a game with no p2w, they are not asking this from p2w people nor they are against them for (ab)using the p2w system the company provides, they are speaking to the company and just want to play the game away from p2w people.

5 hours ago, Zionxi-KT said:

Y’all care to much about what someone else does with their money. Just cuz they have Kinah and you don’t doesn’t make them better. Sure they can LR stuff. But you can grind it without paying for it. Once they have pots and scrolls and gear. All they do it spend Kinah on consumables. It’s not game breaking to make 1m a day with candies. Or to even have Kinah. P2w would be if they put ap relics and medals on quna shop. Or gear/acc on quna. Kinah isn’t hard to make. Just spend some time gathering or farming. You can make Kinah cap every day if you spend about an hour farming elites or even brush mobs. Boys aren’t that rampant in brush/Theo. Stop complaining and farm. And stop worrying about what other people are spending their money on. Sorry you’re a broke nyerk. Lol

...stop complaining and farm so the rich kid can buy your loots and earn 100m per day while you are still broke even though you farmed. They can log an alt account and get 1m from them too and they can do it with however many accounts they want.

Aion is a social game, if you have 10m and everyone has 1m, you are rich and can afford the good stuff, if you have 10m and everyone has 1 billion, you are poor and can't do anything. They are not against those who p2w because the p2w simply use the ways the company gave them. They are against the company itself for making the model like this and allowing the game to decay so fast.

If they had 2 servers, one subscription only and no cash shop, no 1-h free aura, and one server the way it is now, mark my words the subscription-only server would have been full and the other one would eventually close.

[Yoloranger]

43 minutes ago, Arhangelos said:

Of course they are free to spend, and people are also free to quit the game when they can't afford to buy a manastone because the rich kid bought them all in a social game where you strive to be the best.

Also don't confuse the people that ask for a game with no p2w, they are not asking this from p2w people nor they are against them for (ab)using the p2w system the company provides, they are speaking to the company and just want to play the game away from p2w people.

 

The problem with the P2W narrative, which in an of itself is laughable because there's like 300 definitions of what people consider it to be, is that it's a video game to you, but it's a business for them.  They have every right to make a profit and a return on their investment.

Everyone keeps yelling that this company or that company doesn't care about their players.  That's not a fact, it's called a narrative, and the opinion will be shared by everyone with the same narrative.  But just like voting, every player in here gets one opinion.  There is no one that's been annointed as the spokesperson for an entire video game population.  PvP players hate PvE mechanics.  PvE players hate PvP mechanics.  Some like both.  Players with families that only have a few hours cannot compete with no lifers that play the game 12 hours a day.  No lifers hate that family men and women get to pay for perks that life doesn't allow them to earn with time.  They pay for the video game entertainment the same.

There is no one size fits all.  But I guarantee you, if you invested 100 million of your own money, or your life savings to make a video game, you'd think twice about your only source of income being a small subscription cost and some costumes in the cash shop. 

They made the game to make a living, they didn't make it to please you.  That's narcissistic.  They made the game in their vision, using their business model, to maximize what they believe to be their biggest gain.  You don't have to like it, it's not your  money.  You can choose to spend it anywhere.

It's a free market system.  The rules are simple.  When it's your game, your investment and your livelihood at risk, you can make your own rules. 

It's called a business model for a reason. 

[Arhangelos]

19 minutes ago, Yoloranger said:

The problem with the P2W narrative, which in an of itself is laughable because there's like 300 definitions of what people consider it to be, is that it's a video game to you, but it's a business for them.  They have every right to make a profit and a return on their investment.

Everyone keeps yelling that this company or that company doesn't care about their players.  That's not a fact, it's called a narrative, and the opinion will be shared by everyone with the same narrative.  But just like voting, every player in here gets one opinion.  There is no one that's been annointed as the spokesperson for an entire video game population.  PvP players hate PvE mechanics.  PvE players hate PvP mechanics.  Some like both.  Players with families that only have a few hours cannot compete with no lifers that play the game 12 hours a day.  No lifers hate that family men and women get to pay for perks that life doesn't allow them to earn with time.  They pay for the video game entertainment the same.

There is no one size fits all.  But I guarantee you, if you invested 100 million of your own money, or your life savings to make a video game, you'd think twice about your only source of income being a small subscription cost and some costumes in the cash shop. 

They made the game to make a living, they didn't make it to please you.  That's narcissistic.  They made the game in their vision, using their business model, to maximize what they believe to be their biggest gain.  You don't have to like it, it's not your  money.  You can choose to spend it anywhere.

It's a free market system.  The rules are simple.  When it's your game, your investment and your livelihood at risk, you can make your own rules. 

It's called a business model for a reason. 

..if I invested 100m in a game I would want it to succeed. They lost 90% of the players in the first 2~3 weeks because of the model. And that is in the classic... classic's existence itself means their retail version failed already for the EXACT same reason to the classic.

And yes 100x p2w people throw more money to the game than all the subscribers that pay for subscription only, but when the vast majority of sub-only players quit, the game dies and the p2w find no reason to log and spend more money, so the game dies as well. That is a fact and you are witnessing it in both retail and classic.

~~

Now, everything you said above in this specific quote is true BUT the argument both you and the other guy presented previously here is that p2w is not a problem to the game or to the people that do not p2w, and that is debunked a myriad of times already, the state of the game itself is a living proof of that.

If p2w benefits you, it negatively affects those that don't do it. If it makes it easier for you to buy something, it makes it harder for others. That is the issue people are arguing and this is an absolute fact in a social game where you compete for resources, when one has to work for hours for them, while another purchased them in one click.

The sense here is that those that "complain" about p2w are giving their last swan cry, they are about to quit and are trying to make the company make up their minds.

People who try to persuade others that p2w is not a problem or write an essay on how you can still make the game happen without p2... end up persuading nobody. Because once you farmed for 6 hours and you are still the poor, the one that cannot afford to socket his gear and the one that is still last, then p2w is what made it, and once you realize that, nobody can "persuade" you for the opposite.

P2w is real, and it does affect the game and non-p2w players negatively.

[Yoloranger]

5 minutes ago, Arhangelos said:

..if I invested 100m in a game I would want it to succeed. They lost 90% of the players in the first 2~3 weeks because of the model. And that is in the classic... classic's existence itself means their retail version failed already for the EXACT same reason tot he classic, it only happened first.

And yes 100x p2w people throw more money to the game than all the subscribers that pay for subscription only, but when the vast majority of sub-only players quit, the game dies and the p2w find no reason to log and spend more money, so the game dies as well. That is a fact and you are witnessing it in both retail and classic.

~~

Now, everything you said above in this specific quote is true BUT the argument both you and the other guy presented previously here is that p2w is not a problem to the game or to the people that do not p2w, and that is debunked a myriad of times already, the state of the game itself is a living proof of that.

If p2w benefits you, it negatively affects those that don't do it. If it makes it easier for you to buy something, it makes it harder for others. That is the issue people are arguing and this is an absolute fact in a social game where you compete for resources, when one has to work for hours for them, while another purchased them in one click.

The sense here is that those that "complain" about p2w are giving their last swan cry, they are about to quit and are trying to make the company make up their minds.

People who try to persuade others that p2w is not a problem or write an essay on how you can still make the game happen... end up persuading nobody. P2w is real, and it does affect the game and non-p2w negatively.

That's fair & understandable.  A reasonable case.  I don't disagree with some of it and I too wish other parts were different, but I cannot change the two driving forces that make it difficult:

A)  It's not my money
B)  Regardless of what people think about the population and the players quitting, which I hate as well as much as you do, Aion & Aion Classic have made a small Egyptian fortune for 12 years in Korea.   Aion has never been lower than the 8th ranked most played game every year over there.  So NCSoft relies very little on NA, which sucks, and I get it, but it is what it is and I cannot change it.  WoW, which has generated over 9 billion dollars in revenue, killed it's own Classic game. 

I hate that Aion Classic is pretty much an afterthought ... hate it.  But I love, love, love the game, so I'll play it as hard as I can to milk it for all the entertainment that i can with the population that remains until it's no longer fun.  That's my only choice.  I cannot control other people.

But I certainly understand your PoV

[Arhangelos]

1 minute ago, Yoloranger said:

That's fair & understandable.  A reasonable case.  I don't disagree with some of it and I too wish other parts were different, but I cannot change the two driving forces that make it difficult:

A)  It's not my money
B)  Regardless of what people think about the population and the players quitting, which I hate as well as much as you do, Aion & Aion Classic have made a small Egyptian fortune for 12 years in Korea.   Aion has never been lower than the 8th ranked most played game every year over there.  So NCSoft relies very little on NA, which sucks, and I get it, but it is what it is and I cannot change it.  WoW, which has generated over 9 billion dollars in revenue, killed it's own Classic game. 

I hate that Aion Classic is pretty much an afterthought ... hate it.  But I love, love, love the game, so I'll play it as hard as I can to milk it for all the entertainment that i can with the population that remains until it's no longer fun.  That's my only choice.  I cannot control other people.

But I certainly understand your PoV

Exactly, there are people who actually love the model, they are those that benefit from p2w.

But we could have had a model here regionally different from Korean. Retail in Europe is not even free to play yet, it never was.

I am not going to beat the dead horse, we agree to disagree respectfully. I personally do not enjoy it, I can afford to p2w, but I play a game to enjoy the game itself, so for me it is a hard pass. I only log to the classic game lightly without competing in anything anymore. I just get in for the memories and I play retail because at least it is free and even though p2w is more rampant there, at least I do not pay 15$ per month to suck at it.

[Cnc]

Stop beating a dead horse. The cash shop, as it stands NOW, is not P2W.

RMT is P2W, and it will NEVER stop. Even if they remove everything from the cash shop, whales will always be the most geared because they will just buy kinah and buy anything that they want with it. Do you REALLY think that the real whales buy cash shop stuff to sell? No, they RMT for kinah because it's way cheaper than sell cash shop stuff. I'm sure that there might be a game that doesn't have RMT for gold/kinah, but that's an exception to the rule.

Now on the other hand I'm 100% sure that they will make the cash shop P2W eventually, because let's face it, it's NCsoft!