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Instead of merge, why not go full F2P?


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First of all, the only real p2w that I see is RMT kinah, and that will always be there, f2p or p2p. The pass does help, but if you really want things asap, you have to RMT.

Second, it's safe to assume that KR has the final decision on payment model at this point, as all regions launched with the exact same model as KR. If that holds to be true, then it will only change if KR changes.

And last but not least, f2p will be the final blow.

 

 

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The reason someone pays for a sub is mainly to have propper support, which clearly is not what happens around.
When I started playing classic I was hoping to see bugs geting fixed faster, CM's being more active on forums, stuff like that.
But this server works pretty much the same way as retail.
Then yeah, why not go F2P already?

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2 hours ago, Angina said:

The reason someone pays for a sub is mainly to have propper support, which clearly is not what happens around.
When I started playing classic I was hoping to see bugs geting fixed faster, CM's being more active on forums, stuff like that.
But this server works pretty much the same way as retail.
Then yeah, why not go F2P already?

The reason someone pays for a sub is because Aion Classic would cease to exist without a revenue stream, and the players prefer a sub model rather than p2w.

Support is a sideshow.

Edited by Zarbi
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Sieges still broken, mediocre drop rates (which is neccesary for a comunnity of 1k active players ), delayed patches, no worthy events (only current thanksgiving event was the exception) and in general no interest to westernize aion classic

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14 minutes ago, Loca said:

Ya, its hard to defend the sub model when we getting the same treatment of retail, just copy and paste everything that comes from KR and no communication

It's easy to defend the sub model vs retail.

P2W is rampant, just go to BCM and have a look.

There are multiple items that use to be available in game, which are now BCM only.

 

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Retail is P2W nowadays yes. 
But it wasn't P2W for a pretty decent time after it went F2P.
For a long time I remember shop selling stuff that could make one's life easier yes, but not gamebreaking stuff. Also mostly stuff you could also get ingame, but with a little more effort and time. Few things that come to mind now were courrier passes, resset scrolls and tradeable kahrun symbol boxes.
And ofc cosmetics and event items that could be sold to free players.

Thats just an example. Aion is a game thats too old already with a community thats lowering everyday. 
Classic server kicked casual players out when they made even quest items impossible to loot without Siels Aura. Something has to be done beyond just merging servers.

Edited by Angina
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14 hours ago, Zarbi said:

It's easy to defend the sub model vs retail.

P2W is rampant, just go to BCM and have a look.

There are multiple items that use to be available in game, which are now BCM only.

 

A sub should provide quality content and quality service, like other games that give good examples of subscription based or subscription optional, like FF and ESO. Obviously those are made by much larger companies, I concede to that.

If the reasons to defend a sub are the absence of pay 2 win, or that the game won't have enough revenue, then we are simply being held hostage. That isn't a "good" defense.

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P2W lolz ... <insert every MMO ever created>

What's pay to win?  BCM?  ummm ... wrong
Candies?  Ummmm ... wrong

Candies effect your normal rubbish disposal.  It's easy enough running content to get to limit just selling rubbish, so no ... candies are laughable

BCM?  Please, find a new argument, something else to whine and complain about please.  These are tired, tired, tired, tired, tired, old dead horse beaten with a spoon commentaries about nothing.

Enlighten me please ... you play, you pay more, you play, you pay more than the others ... what did you win?  Please tell me what you win.  Did you beat the game?  Did you magically enhance your hand eye coordination or memory reflexes?  Did it make skill ezmode?  You're wallet is lighter, you have nice stuff, you didn't WIN anything.

Money doesn't make you better ... what it does is give you the 'happy feeling' of disillusion that you somewhat narrowed the gap between you and the player you'd like to be ... when the gap is actually the same. 

Fast cars go fast, cost more.  In traffic, they go as fast as the 1984 Oldsmobile sitting right next to them.  Rolex watches cost more, tell time the same.  Go up to anyone wearing a Rolex and ask them what time it is.  Guess what they do??  yeah, they look at their cell phone.

Point is, having shiny things doesn't make you better ... games are played to have fun.  So quit focusing on the negative and the irrelevant and play the game to have some fun.  If you're not having fun, move on.  Time is fleeting, it won't be long before you have more past than future.  Don't waste your free and leisure time being so negative.

Think a happy thought

 

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5 hours ago, Yoloranger said:

P2W lolz ... <insert every MMO ever created>

What's pay to win?  BCM?  ummm ... wrong
Candies?  Ummmm ... wrong

Candies effect your normal rubbish disposal.  It's easy enough running content to get to limit just selling rubbish, so no ... candies are laughable

BCM?  Please, find a new argument, something else to whine and complain about please.  These are tired, tired, tired, tired, tired, old dead horse beaten with a spoon commentaries about nothing.

Enlighten me please ... you play, you pay more, you play, you pay more than the others ... what did you win?  Please tell me what you win.  Did you beat the game?  Did you magically enhance your hand eye coordination or memory reflexes?  Did it make skill ezmode?  You're wallet is lighter, you have nice stuff, you didn't WIN anything.

Money doesn't make you better ... what it does is give you the 'happy feeling' of disillusion that you somewhat narrowed the gap between you and the player you'd like to be ... when the gap is actually the same. 

Fast cars go fast, cost more.  In traffic, they go as fast as the 1984 Oldsmobile sitting right next to them.  Rolex watches cost more, tell time the same.  Go up to anyone wearing a Rolex and ask them what time it is.  Guess what they do??  yeah, they look at their cell phone.

Point is, having shiny things doesn't make you better ... games are played to have fun.  So quit focusing on the negative and the irrelevant and play the game to have some fun.  If you're not having fun, move on.  Time is fleeting, it won't be long before you have more past than future.  Don't waste your free and leisure time being so negative.

Think a happy thought

 

The guy that didn't have to grind, aethertap, essencetap, craft,morph etc and is geared to teeth dedicates his game play in pvp and trains himself for pvp.

Grinding, essencetapping, aethertapping, crafting, morphing etc do not make you a better player, defo not good at pvp and you aren't even getting rich. The p2w guy is richer than you and has all the manastones you never had and every niche item you cannot afford.

You are not becoming better in game because you play it as intended when another person can bypass the repetitive boring stuff and go straight to the meat and train to be a butcher.

The best players and highest ranks are always those that didn't have to run around on semi finished gear or unsocketed items because they purchased all these extras yesterday before you could even reach end game, and while you were a live farming bot, they did the same amount of hours in pvp training themselves in every possible scenario.

5 hours ago, Yoloranger said:

Candies effect your normal rubbish disposal.  It's easy enough running content to get to limit just selling rubbish, so no ... candies are laughable

You can make 10 or 100 or even more accounts because it is free and you get 1 hour every day to burn their 1m limit and trade it to your main. So you can get as many kinah as you want by NPC sales as long as you are willing to invest.

P2W is not guaranteed to make you a better player, but being a naked legit player defo doesn't do that either.

Being p2w doesn't mean you are smart, but it doesn't mean you are stupid either. I am saying thi because all of you constantly pretend that p2w people are brain dead and they will always lose because you "farmed" what they bought and somehow you know something that they don't.

Edited by Arhangelos
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@Arhangelos:
People seem to confuse pay to win with pay for guaranteed victory or pay for a special skill that oneshoots everyone. A common misconception it seems. People that say candies were not pay to win do not comprehend the mechanics of Aion or rather how useful kinah is.

Edited by Stormwing
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11 minutes ago, Stormwing said:

@Arhangelos:
People seem to confuse pay to win with pay for guaranteed victory or pay for a special skill that oneshoots everyone. A common misconception it seems. People that say candies were not pay to win do not comprehend the mechanics of Aion or rather how useful kinah is.

Exactly, and people always create a strawman p2w dummy player that can't even kill mobs even though they are geared to teeth, so they conclude that p2w is obsolete because they provided  a scenario that never happens.

Whoever played the game without p2w, knows that you might never manage to fully socket all slots of your items before you quit out of frustration.

Edited by Arhangelos
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People need to realise that pay to win does not refer to something mythical one can not achieve ingame. Pay to win does not refer to a magical weapon from the cash shop that makes you immortal and kill everyone. Pay to win in Aion stands for pay to progress (faster). To create something ingame which was not farmed ingame.

Look at the players who sold candies at the start
While you were farming kinah to buy scraps off broker they were sitting on billions buying all the manastones, enchantment stones and goodies they need off broker without worries. While you were/are still struggling to get get Bakarma spear or bidding your poor person 50 million kinah they bought it for 900 millions first and moved on.

While you had a hard time levelling your craft they already easily maxed out professions using work orders and buying cheap balics off broker before its time.

While you might finally have gotten some decent gear they were already fully gold +10.

In the early game, that made alot of difference. Now most people probably would not ever bother about it.

Look at the players who bought Daeva Pass
While people were running around in normal to green gear those were easy mode farming in full coin gear. With even coins to spare likely fully socketed +5.

Look at players who did both
While you were struggling to make kinah, levelling essence tapping, gathering materials, or getting gear those people were farming abyss guards in full gold gear and an infinite supply of consumables without worries. They were running instances easily already getting more geared.

Pay to win in Aion saves time. Aion is not a game where people lose progress unless they stop playing nor is it a game people can actually catch up easily unless they are very lucky. Good geared people are always going to have an advantages and are going to be favoured in everything. While you struggle to find groups they find premades easily. They get rewards from do that first events and what so ever. They get more abyss points in dredgion for having better gear. And so on... And yes, you can reach all that ingame by playing as well or you can win dredgion and PvP without as well. However, when you think you finally caught up you realise that those players are great generals to governor and already ready to purchase and enchant to next coming sets to +15. You are always going to be few steps behind.

Certainly, you might find that one or those two people playing all day going full out on cash shop and you still beat them. Those are just the exceptions confirming the rule.

Not saying I have an issue with any of that. But it is silly to be delusional about it. That is just my experience/observation from over a decade of Aion from both sides.

Edited by Stormwing
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8 minutes ago, Stormwing said:

...too long but I read it all.

These are exactly my thoughts. Getting to end game faster and getting the end game rewards for more time and winning on more scenarios based on the benefit you purchased, ends up giving you back more than what you paid for and gets you ready for the next patch.

Imagine someone pretending to be a better shooter at fortnite because he was picking flowers for 6 hours while someone was training in pvp for 6 hours because he didn't have to pick flowers! That is exactly the difference between p2w and f2p players in Aion.

(And I am not even sure if fortnite has flower picking abilities to begin with.and whether those flowers would give you any game advantage lolz dem hypothetical scenarios be like)

Edited by Arhangelos
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13 hours ago, Yoloranger said:

Enlighten me please ... you play, you pay more, you play, you pay more than the others ... what did you win?  Please tell me what you win.  Did you beat the game?  Did you magically enhance your hand eye coordination or memory reflexes?  Did it make skill ezmode?  You're wallet is lighter, you have nice stuff, you didn't WIN anything.

You are absolutely right here! but

Stop explaining ... those who complain don't understand🦧!

They can only shout "mimimimi p2w mimimimi" like a parrot 🐦that only parrots what others put into their minds because they have no opinion of their own!

I have already given up on going to this "bottom drawer".

Edited by 66sB2F50
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@66sB2F50:
Being aware of something and whining about something are different things.
Since you agree with "Josh Strife Hayes" on "What MMO Should you play?", why do you not check out his clip called "What makes a game 'Pay to Win'?"? Start at either 3:40 or 16:00 minutes in.

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Lots or words

No answer

What did he win?

You're just looking for reasons to be unhappy or negative.  Who cares what he paid for.  He paid for a gameplay experience that his money bought him.  Big deal.

Maybe he's happily playing while you are in here complaining about it, while you could be spending that time maximizing your gameplay experience with our without the same avenues.

What did he win?

Please name this person that beat the game!

People are free to spend their money however they wish.  Fast cars go fast.  Deal with it

 

 

<insert blah blah blah blah blah I hate NCSoft blah blah blah blah blah Aion sucks blah blah blah blah>

It pains all of you that people are still having fun playing the game, playing with legions, playing with friends, playing content, progressing, looking forward to next patch

<insert blah blah blah blah Next patch never coming blah blah blah blah They only care about KR blah blah blah>

<Insert every other thread on the forums>

Jingle Bells Jingle Bells, Jingle All the Way, Oh What Fun It Is To Play AION CLASSIC Today!  You know the words ... sing it with me!

Maybe you should just play marbles

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@Yoloranger was asking what players using the cash shop are able to gain.
@66sB2F50 was asking in which way the game could be seen as p2w.

If either of you care about players using the cash shop or not is totally irrelevant to me.
If you beat those players ingame is totally irrelevant to me.
Whether I like or dislike the use of cash shop is irrelevant to what people are able to gain from it.
I am discussing a topic / definition and not emotions about it.

I play the game the way I have fun and I recommend you both, like you obviously do already, to do the same. I am enjoying the game as long as I do and once I stop, I will move on. That is what games are for.

Edited by Stormwing
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6 hours ago, Stormwing said:

I play the game the way I have fun and I recommend you both, like you obviously do already, to do the same.

That’s what I’m saying all the time.
The only difference is that I can no longer see that people are crying about something that isn't there!
Weeping about the alleged p2w doesn't fit, neither with the former Aion (before 4.6Patch)  nor with the current classic.
If the players complain about the current retail Aion, I would understand &  that's why I'm no longer there active.
Because there is real p2w in a "alà~casino" style.

6 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Yoloranger:
Time.

@Stormwing

yes, that's exactly what the candies in the shop are for.
So that some can catch up and keep up.

If someone doesn't just want to catch up (because he can play 24/7 and ultimately have enough cash) to get a Kinah edge with real money, then I'm just sorry.
I earn his earned (real) money in the form of Kinah with my contribution in the game (because he doesn't collect, doesn't manufacture, doesn't play etc.) hehehe.

At least that makes it easier for me to laugh than someone who buys candies with real money.....

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@66sB2F50:
You only see the obvious pay to win, which I can understand and which is an acceptable point of view. My post and also the Youtube clip I mentioned to you are talking about layered/passive pay to win, which is obviously my opinion about it.

The reasons you suggested or rather assumed people are having using the cash shop do not change the fact it exists. Neither you laughing at players or feeling sorry for them changes that. Like I wrote, you tend to discuss emotions rather than the topic. If you want to discuss whether there is pay to win in Aion or elaborate to me why there is not, I am all ears. Yet, if you talk about whether you care about people using it or that you feel sorry for them, I do not really care. (nothing personal)

I can not comment on retail since I stopped it long ago.

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10 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Yoloranger was asking what players using the cash shop are able to gain.
@66sB2F50 was asking in which way the game could be seen as p2w.

If either of you care about players using the cash shop or not is totally irrelevant to me.
If you beat those players ingame is totally irrelevant to me.
Whether I like or dislike the use of cash shop is irrelevant to what people are able to gain from it.
I am discussing a topic / definition and not emotions about it.

I play the game the way I have fun and I recommend you both, like you obviously do already, to do the same. I am enjoying the game as long as I do and once I stop, I will move on. That is what games are for.

This is a valid and articulate response.  A welcome addition to the forums.  Thank you.

Time, though, cannot be won any more than math can.  You can't beat math.  You can solve complex algorithms and math problems, but you can't beat them.   Time and math are universal.  No matter what you call them, they cannot be manipulated because their standard is absolute.

All I'm saying really is that while I understand all of the frustration, and I do ... I don't let it negatively effect my game play experience.  If I did, I would just move on to another game that more satisfies me.  I hate negativity, and yes, it may seem ironic that some of my posts come across as really negative.  I don't mean them to be, it's hard to have verbal conversations in text and hold all context.

It seems to me like some folks are very unhappy and unhappy is a horrible way to spend free and leisure gaming time.  Real life is tedious enough, there is enough stress, tension ache and heartache in the real world just waking up everyday.  Personally, my gaming time is sacred ... I don't let developers and publishers effect it, I don't give them the power to make my free time negative time.  I have fun playing Aion Classic, for all of it's flaws, it's simply the best game I've ever played.  That's my opinion.  It fits my game style.  I like the architecture and the world and the objectives within that world.  I like how it promotes legion and friends play.  I like all of that.

On that not though, I do understand what most are upset about.  Do I wish I could siege right now?  Hell yes.  Do I wish the would either pick the Siel's Aura or the Daeva Pass as their monetization method instead of both?  Absolutely yes.  Is the game flawed, a far cry from it's original iteration in 2009?  Also yes.

But it still holds my attention, it's still provides me entertainment, it still provides me interesting challenges.  I've met amazing people playing the game.  I've had epic level wins and epic level losses.  I've been ganked repeatedly by animation hackers, AP traders, radar hackers and all other that make my laugh by cheating at a video game.  lol.  All it mean to me in the end is that another persons pixelated cartoon avatar made my pixelated cartoon avatar dead.  I didn't lose any items.  I may have lost some AP that I can gain back easily.  I may have lost some time in having to do again what I was doing the first time, but time is what I invest in Aion, sometimes you get to be efficient with it and sometimes it's more of a challenge.  Such is the nature of gaming.  No difference to me with wiping repeatedly while learning a hard mode dungeon or world boss mechanics.  

So I get both sides.  I'm not here trying to rag on people that are unhappy ... I'm simply here saying that if you are that unhappy and keep stating that you know NCSoft or who ever will never change and that content takes way too long, then find a way to make your free and leisure time a more enjoyable experience.  Find a great legion, run content with friends, PvP with groups. 

I hope everyone stays in the game, I'd love to play with all the population we can get.  I look forward to server merges and new patches and I agree that they all take too long.  But I'll wait.  Playing Aion Classic through 1.7 and 2.0 were some of the best times I've ever had gaming, and 2.0 is worth waiting for.

That being said ... I still believe that the release of Lost Ark is going to kill all NA gaming :(

Peace

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