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Is GP system broken?


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7 minutes ago, Goosk-KT said:

I get your opinion because you're part of the high ranks but im looking at both sides
 

No, you are not, you are just looking one side, your side, and that is because you an easy path to become army 5, as you said it, if you want to become an army 5, general, etc.. you have to earn it throught efort and time, all of us didnt get our high ranks easy, why the new players have to get it easy, just because?? no, they have to earn it.

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Recently i saw myself tempted on trying to get 5 star, wich also made me wonder how long would it take to get 5 star and how's the current GP system. A few maths later here's the results: Th

And here is that word "fair" again. Say you are a new player and I am a commander. It has taken me 2 years of game play to get to commander. What is fair is that the path I took to get to command

The GP system is currently one of the most broken things about Aion. Don't listen to the apologists above who think it's a reasonable system. These are the type of people who would argue that enchant

who said it was easy? are you really that scared that a new player will steal your rank from you? maybe he deserves it more than you if you're going to lose it that easly. as i said compare it to league of legends ranking system that resets every year yet the top players are always on the top. because they deserve it, not because they have played longer than others

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The old system was better to some extent that since your people cycled in and out of ranks a fair amount. We need some type of system that lets others have a fair shot to being able to use xform IMO. The GP system is terrible and has been since release since it almost doesn't cycle out anyone especially the very high ranks.

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29 minutes ago, Goosk-KT said:

who said it was easy? are you really that scared that a new player will steal your rank from you? maybe he deserves it more than you if you're going to lose it that easly. as i said compare it to league of legends ranking system that resets every year yet the top players are always on the top. because they deserve it, not because they have played longer than others

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Scared?? really??? you are taking this way too personal

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

if you dont like how the Rank system Works in here, then you already know what game you can play.

And as for loosing my Rank to another player. yes that might happen some day, sooner or later i dont know, but that would be for a player who work for it and earn it. 

This is the last thing im gonna say about this matter, im not gonna start a stupid fight with you just for the difference of opinions we have the two of us.

 

18 minutes ago, Yona-DN said:

The old system was better to some extent that since your people cycled in and out of ranks a fair amount. We need some type of system that lets others have a fair shot to being able to use xform IMO. The GP system is terrible and has been since release since it almost doesn't cycle out anyone especially the very high ranks.

The AP system was more static than GP system, take as example the previous post i made about the governor that Elyos-SL had a few years ago, when we didnt have the GP Rank system.

 

Edited by Vessttemona-KT
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44 minutes ago, Goosk-KT said:

That's where you're wrong. 2 years is actualy quite acceptable but did you read my post? it would take over 3 years for a new player to reach the value you have now. if you keep playing there is no way a new player would ever be able to reach the highest ranks, also the calculations i made asume you win most of your instances, a player like this is not exacly "new" to the game.
I get your opinion because you're part of the high ranks but im looking at both sides, if you think you deserve governor you should prove it. not slack and get the minimum gp requirement per week to keep it while anyone else actually trying to get there would take years to reach that point.
I barely ever heard anyone complaining about the league of legends ranking system that resets every year yet alot of people complain about the gp ranking.
 

As at least one prior post has pointed out, everyone has to be active and earn at least a minimal amount of GP or else they drop off the ranking . I do agree that the amount of GP required is too small, it should be increased and  the amount should be proportional to rank. I would also encourage a minimum amount of siege participation per month for a transform.

28 minutes ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

No, you are not, you are just looking one side, your side, and that is because you an easy path to become army 5, as you said it, if you want to become an army 5, general, etc.. you have to earn it throught efort and time, all of us didnt get our high ranks easy, why the new players have to get it easy, just because?? no, they have to earn it.

 

14 minutes ago, Yona-DN said:

The old system was better to some extent that since your people cycled in and out of ranks a fair amount. We need some type of system that lets others have a fair shot to being able to use xform IMO. The GP system is terrible and has been since release since it almost doesn't cycle out anyone especially the very high ranks.

It isn't terrible i some aspects, but again, the GP decay needs to be reworked. Even with the AP system, on some servers, there wasn't so much turnover in the highest ranks and there were disadvantages to a lot of aspects of PVP.

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That's only if I and everyone else is still playing, @Goosk-KT. People fall of the rankings all the time and that allows for movement. 

Also, in your scenario of "just doing the bare minium" and maintaining your rank, you completely ignoring the -true- competition of those in the top 100.. the person right below them. Case in point, I am number 30 on DN-A. I am not eyeballing the governor spot. That would be silly. I am actually looking at number 29 while making sure that I pull away from number 31. It is totally nonsensical for your fictional "new player" to have their sites set on the Governor spot as they kill sparkies in Poeta/Ishalgan. Baby steps, brother! All in due time. Freaking snowflakes with their "fair" and their "I want it now" and their "everyone gets a trophy". Can't we have something that awards longevity?

 

But that is actually all hardly the point. Let's look at the end-game for rankings, which is to have an xform. Ranking gives you nothing else since the removed rank requirements for gear.

So.. what's an xform for? (And I am not asking what people use or don't use them for. I am asking what is the actual dev reason for putting xforms into the game.)

One word.

Sieges.

Sure. You can pop them in Illuma or Norswald and chase the kiddies around, but the actual real reason is sieges. (And yes.. some people have xform and never use them. Again.. that's besides the point. We are talking dev reasons here.)

And what does an xform actually give you. More HP. An so-so AOE skill with a decent CD. And the inability to be CCed by anyone other than the top 3 of the other faction. They are tanks. They are shock troops. They are the front freaking lines. They lead the charge. Remember? "Support your xforms!" In other words, run behind them and stop being scared of your own pixelated death. And that's why they should go to people who know what the hell they are doing.. and how do they know what they are doing? That's right! Because they have been attending sieges and watching and learning since they were that fresh out of the box new character you are talking about! Does an xform suddenly make you good? Nope! Does it give you an edge in arenas or PvP instances? Nope and nope. Does rank make you anything other than a bigger ap pinata in open world (when you  aren't actually xformed)? Nope!

So if you want one, stop crying that you don't have one and that it's not -fair-. Do what I and everyone else that does have one has done. Keep working on it. Pass the guy in front of you. And then the guy in front of that one. And so on. 

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3 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

It is totally nonsensical for your fictional "new player" to have their sites set on the Governor spot as they kill sparkies in Poeta/Ishalgan.

Making pointless arugments wont get you anywhere. did you take 3 years to get out of poeta? i didnt. no one's talking about something you can archive in a week or a month but something impossible to archive. ill mention a 3rd time that the calculations i mentioned was for a player that does every single instance and every single siege and wins most of them. you really think a player fresh out of poeta can do that? if you're counting a player like that it would probably take him 10 years or maybe more to reach the governor status. we're playing a game not running for president.

3 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

"Support your xforms!" In other words, run behind them and stop being scared of your own pixelated death. And that's why they should go to people who know what the hell they are doing.. and how do they know what they are doing? That's right! Because they have been attending sieges and watching and learning since they were that fresh out of the box new character you are talking about!

You should ask DN-E what a great job their current high ranks are doing at leading sieges, and its not going to change anytime soon because to take those spots from them to people that actualy deserve it takes years of enfort and no one wants to do that.

The people on the top of the ladder are 95% always the same you know why? not because they worked hard and deserve the spot, its because no one wants to puts years of work for a stupid xform in an online game.

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And completely ignoring what I said isn't going to get you anywhere either.

Your calculations assume that everyone else is in stasis. That not a single person stops playing or stops playing as much. That is where your mobility comes from. And it didn't take me 3 years to get out of Poeta, but it sure as hell hasn't gotten me to Governor either! Your calculations takes a fresh character with 0 GP and makes them look at GOVERNOR. You did notice that there is only one of those, right? And that 99.999% of Aion players will never be Governor. Try redoing your calculations for rank 100.. bottom of the xforms. And factor in attrition (players above you leaving the game or making a new main). Stop looking at the top and then crying it's too hard. Just start climbing.

I seem to remember several times saying in my discussion about what a transform is actually for was from the development stand point.. and not indicative of some of the tardlets that actually hold the position. If you want to go toe to toe with fail xform stories, I bet you I can come up with worse ones that you.

And here is that word "deserves" again. 

But fine.. let's go with your logic. No one wants to put in years of word for a stupid xform. Alright! Sounds good. No one wants these stupid xforms, so why are we crying about the GP system again?

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39 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

That's only if I and everyone else is still playing, @Goosk-KT. People fall of the rankings all the time and that allows for movement. 

Also, in your scenario of "just doing the bare minium" and maintaining your rank, you completely ignoring the -true- competition of those in the top 100.. the person right below them. Case in point, I am number 30 on DN-A. I am not eyeballing the governor spot. That would be silly. I am actually looking at number 29 while making sure that I pull away from number 31. It is totally nonsensical for your fictional "new player" to have their sites set on the Governor spot as they kill sparkies in Poeta/Ishalgan. Baby steps, brother! All in due time. Freaking snowflakes with their "fair" and their "I want it now" and their "everyone gets a trophy". Can't we have something that awards longevity?

 

But that is actually all hardly the point. Let's look at the end-game for rankings, which is to have an xform. Ranking gives you nothing else since the removed rank requirements for gear.

So.. what's an xform for? (And I am not asking what people use or don't use them for. I am asking what is the actual dev reason for putting xforms into the game.)

One word.

Sieges.

Sure. You can pop them in Illuma or Norswald and chase the kiddies around, but the actual real reason is sieges. (And yes.. some people have xform and never use them. Again.. that's besides the point. We are talking dev reasons here.)

And what does an xform actually give you. More HP. An so-so AOE skill with a decent CD. And the inability to be CCed by anyone other than the top 3 of the other faction. They are tanks. They are shock troops. They are the front freaking lines. They lead the charge. Remember? "Support your xforms!" In other words, run behind them and stop being scared of your own pixelated death. And that's why they should go to people who know what the hell they are doing.. and how do they know what they are doing? That's right! Because they have been attending sieges and watching and learning since they were that fresh out of the box new character you are talking about! Does an xform suddenly make you good? Nope! Does it give you an edge in arenas or PvP instances? Nope and nope. Does rank make you anything other than a bigger ap pinata in open world (when you  aren't actually xformed)? Nope!

So if you want one, stop crying that you don't have one and that it's not -fair-. Do what I and everyone else that does have one has done. Keep working on it. Pass the guy in front of you. And then the guy in front of that one. And so on. 

Agree with every damn word ( my asmos are transferred, sure you don't want to come join us? cookies!!!)

18 minutes ago, Goosk-KT said:

Making pointless arugments wont get you anywhere. did you take 3 years to get out of poeta? i didnt. no one's talking about something you can archive in a week or a month but something impossible to archive. ill mention a 3rd time that the calculations i mentioned was for a player that does every single instance and every single siege and wins most of them. you really think a player fresh out of poeta can do that? if you're counting a player like that it would probably take him 10 years or maybe more to reach the governor status. we're playing a game not running for president.

You should ask DN-E what a great job their current high ranks are doing at leading sieges, and its not going to change anytime soon because to take those spots from them to people that actualy deserve it takes years of enfort and no one wants to do that.

The people on the top of the ladder are 95% always the same you know why? not because they worked hard and deserve the spot, its because no one wants to puts years of work for a stupid xform in an online game.

Well, it took some/most of us months if not years. Some of us also lost and regained ranks more than once. If we did it, why can't you?

If you really wanted the rank, you  would have it, otherwise, you wouldn't. It's like anything else - gear, enchantments- if it's really important for you, then you make time to achieve it. 

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9 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

Well, it took some/most of us months if not years. Some of us also lost and regained ranks more than once. If we did it, why can't you?

Because it was easyer to get rank before than it is now. remember the ap to gp trade? it got removed for a reason but the people that abused it kept their gp. also the current system will get harder and harder as the time goes by because there is no gp decay.
 

 

12 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

If you really wanted the rank, you  would have it, otherwise, you wouldn't.

As Aly-DN mentioned that's not how it works, even if i wanted to become governor people outside the top 10 have no chance of reaching such rank in the next 5 years if the system stays the same.

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13 minutes ago, Goosk-KT said:

Because it was easyer to get rank before than it is now. remember the ap to gp trade? it got removed for a reason but the people that abused it kept their gp. also the current system will get harder and harder as the time goes by because there is no gp decay.
 

 

As Aly-DN mentioned that's not how it works, even if i wanted to become governor people outside the top 10 have no chance of reaching such rank in the next 5 years if the system stays the same.

 You keep talking about Governor rank- as pointed out previously, there are are 99 ranks before that. So what if you don't make Governor? I remember the GP/AP trade quite well, it's over and done with, it won't help to revisit that.

Most people on the server don't ever make Governor, it's not  meant to be easy, and it never was,  I can recall back when transforms were first introduced- yes, at the very first ranks were easy but very, very quickly the top 10 were very hard to get. I agree completely that the rate of GP decay should be adjusted, this should be communicate to the development team, I don't know that NCWest can do anything.. I am saying that some other  ranks are still achievable. 

Edited by Calista-DN
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Im mentioning governor because my point is not "QQ i wana be high rank" as some people think.

My point is that some content is completely unavailable for some players just because they joined in late. people seem to forget (or try not to mention) that the calculations i made is for a player doing everything he can to get rank. that aint easy, it would probably take more weekly time than an actual real job. and after all that work you still need over 3 years? and even after 3 years you wouldnt be even close to governor because the current governor obviously made more gp during those 3 years? it seems a bit too much.

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1 hour ago, Goosk-KT said:

You should ask DN-E what a great job their current high ranks are doing at leading sieges, and its not going to change anytime soon because to take those spots from them to people that actualy deserve it takes years of enfort and no one wants to do that.

The people on the top of the ladder are 95% always the same you know why? not because they worked hard and deserve the spot, its because no one wants to puts years of work for a stupid xform in an online game.

So by your own admission and I quote "no one wants to puts years of work for a stupid xform in an online game" and yet in some flawed reasoning, nobody in the top 100 "actually deserve" their spots.  I suggest you stop posting asap and schedule an MRI.  Please inform us how you think you "deserve" more GP or Governor, General, 5 Star rank over the people who own those spots and really do "deserve" it.  As far as DN-E ranks leading sieges, you realize the fault is not just the leadership right?  It is also the lack of participation from all ranks and levels.  

 

Let us be clear, by participation, that means doing more then standing their trying to collect free GP.

Edited by Gabe-DN
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Glad to see so many people can get their thongs tied in a knot about a few par for the course NC-west snafu's. Yes the AP to gp npc's should never have been implemented, and they popped back up after the merger... let alone just wiping EVERYBODY back to 0, no current viable gear needs rank, those who know how to get the rank would have done so again in no time, likely with boosted sales of say... EB/IDL/OW and IS reset scrolls (good job shooting yourselves in the foot missing that cash grab btw)

I know this because I watched how fast the top 30 on BR had climbed in the 1st 3 months, I had even made 4 star w/o ever seeing EB.

I see some of Goosk's complaint because I'm not tunnel visioning on his use of 'deserve'. He wants to climb the mountain like anybody else, but rather it was say like something in the Pocono's, not the Himalayas. later posts using 'govenor' are just baiting you to rage... /popcorn time :D

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I understand that we need a more dinamic system to let new active players to get a rank easier. But in the other hand we have to see that some players made a huge effort and used a lot of time to get the GP they have. Maybe cuting in half the GP or reseting all the GP every year is not really fair to those veteran players. But keeping them on the best ranks even if they are not really active now, isn´t fair with the people who is playing now and doing a lot of job. 

So IMO the current system to require 1450 GP in the last month to "unlock" our current rank based on our GP is not bad. But maybe with some modifications could be better. Something like:

to unlock:

1 star       -------      1000 GP in the last month
2 stars     --------      1500 GP
3 stars      --------     2200 GP
4 stars      -------      3000 GP
5 stars      --------     4000 GP
general    --------      7000 GP and at least 5% presence in sieges
great gral. -------     8500 GP and at least 10% presence in sieges
commander -------  10000 GP and at least 15% presence in sieges
governor  -------      12.000 GP and at least 25% presence in sieges. 

actually the players on those ranks obtain much more GP if they are active and those numbers are not so complicated for them. 

lets think about a commander who is not so active or he has no time to play so much. To him is not hard to get the current 1450 GP but if he is not gonna be playing is an Xform wasted and a lot of power absent in the sieges. But we can not erase all his past work. So lets imagine that he only obtains 4600 GP in the last month. Well, he will only unlock rank 5 stars. He will keep his GP and if in the future he play more, he will unlock a better rank and probably recover the commander rank that he deserves. But in the present that position will be for somebody else (and probably will be another veteran player that in the current system has general rank at least) 

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I don't know why theoretical new players are brought into it, honestly. First of all, this game isn't really getting any new players anymore. Second of all, if new user's problem is mainly rank instead of gear, level and getting hang of their class then it's completely on the new user for having a skewed priority list, not on the system.

Also thing is that it's MMO, not MOBA - seasons just won't work here. If they decided to do GP strip now, going like "lol btw there are seasons now, have fun" some people would probably rage quit, which should be understandable taken that some people worked for years to obtain and keep their ranks. Might be just my opinion, but resetting rank would do more harm than good. It would just guarantee the game being GP farming mess for the next (let's say) month after reset. Rank in Aion isn't gained by the amount of games you have played and how many of them you have won, it's based on how much are you willing to farm and spend on reset scrolls to get the advantage early on.

Anyway, the only thing rank is good for now is buying officer food and if you're 5-star and above, I guess x-forming is nice too. Bringing up disadvantage would make more sense few patches ago when people weren't booted from ranks for inactivity, making even hitting 2-star challenging (at least on Siel) which was actually needed for gear.

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At end of day less time spam forums more time grinding gp if you like a higher rank. reset ranks isn't going to help players on most of servers top 10 have spent plastic to have and keep there ranks over years I doubt they stop using plastic to take there same ranks back.  having a xform isn't anything that special at end of day

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The GP system is currently one of the most broken things about Aion. Don't listen to the apologists above who think it's a reasonable system. These are the type of people who would argue that enchant levels shouldn't be capped because "if I'm willing to work for it then it's fair and not ridiculous at all!". 

18 hours ago, Gabe-DN said:

Like I said before, you can be a 5 star pretty easy within a year.  I came back from nothing 14 months ago.

I mean, just look at this kind of reasoning. "Ranking up is easy, i got 5 star in 14 months!" Just lmao. You're not working for tenure here, people. You're not working towards a degree or some sort of special certification. We're talking about a rank in a video game.

 

I guarantee you I could take a fresh level 1 character with absolutely nothing and grind it to 75 with competitive end-game gear (+15 full prime, +5 prime accs) way faster than it would take for me to take a maxed out level 75 character from 0 GP to general rank or even 5 star. I have an old, ex high rank toon I pretty much completely quit 3 years ago with ~180k GP. How many months would it take for me to catch up to this amount of GP with my current main toon with ~12k GP? If somebody like me with my experience and knowledge with the game is discouraged from trying to rank up, how do you think newer players must feel? 

 

Anyone remember when ranking up could be fun at times? You could feed a friend through the ranks and a couple of weeks later enjoy running around xforming with them. You'd often have new governors/commanders/etc running around every now and then, leading sieges or even xforming for pvp.  Despite all its flaws the AP system was way more balanced. Now ranking up is an afterthought. If a new player asked an experienced and sensible old player for advice on ranking up the response would be to not worry about rank at all (or at least not until much later once decent gear is obtained). I bet the ex-gov and former commanders from Beritra don't even bother trying to catch up with the top ranks after the merge with Siel. 

 

At least NCsoft had the sense to not require rank for pvp gear lately. Also, xform isn't nearly as fun or important as it was years ago. Even so, let's not pretend the GP system is fair and balanced because that simply isn't the case.

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12 minutes ago, Miles-KT said:

The GP system is currently one of the most broken things about Aion. Don't listen to the apologists above who think it's a reasonable system. These are the type of people who would argue that enchant levels shouldn't be capped because "if I'm willing to work for it then it's fair and not ridiculous at all!". 

I mean, just look at this kind of reasoning. "Ranking up is easy, i got 5 star in 14 months!" Just lmao. You're not working for tenure here, people. You're not working towards a degree or some sort of special certification. We're talking about a rank in a video game.

 

I guarantee you I could take a fresh level 1 character with absolutely nothing and grind it to 75 with competitive end-game gear (+15 full prime, +5 prime accs) way faster than it would take for me to take a maxed out level 75 character from 0 GP to general rank or even 5 star. I have an old, ex high rank toon I pretty much completely quit 3 years ago with ~180k GP. How many months would it take for me to catch up to this amount of GP with my current main toon with ~12k GP? If somebody like me with my experience and knowledge with the game is discouraged from trying to rank up, how do you think newer players must feel? 

 

Anyone remember when ranking up could be fun at times? You could feed a friend through the ranks and a couple of weeks later enjoy running around xforming with them. You'd often have new governors/commanders/etc running around every now and then, leading sieges or even xforming for pvp.  Despite all its flaws the AP system was way more balanced. Now ranking up is an afterthought. If a new player asked an experienced and sensible old player for advice on ranking up the response would be to not worry about rank at all (or at least not until much later once decent gear is obtained). I bet the ex-gov and former commanders from Beritra don't even bother trying to catch up with the top ranks after the merge with Siel. 

 

At least NCsoft had the sense to not require rank for pvp gear lately. Also, xform isn't nearly as fun or important as it was years ago. Even so, let's not pretend the GP system is fair and balanced because that simply isn't the case.

Most new players are going to think about it the same way I do, after a 3 year hiatus:  It's an older game, with people that have been playing since it started, and I'm not going to catch up with them any time soon, and, there's no reason for me to believe that I should, or that I should be able to.  Whether that means it's "fair" or not is a matter of perspective, I'd say, but frankly, what's fair about making it easy/easier for someone else?  It's already easier, for a reason that you mention in the last line here, "not require rank for pvp gear".

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2 hours ago, Miles-KT said:

The GP system is currently one of the most broken things about Aion. Don't listen to the apologists above who think it's a reasonable system. These are the type of people who would argue that enchant levels shouldn't be capped because "if I'm willing to work for it then it's fair and not ridiculous at all!". 

[...]

Anyone remember when ranking up could be fun at times? You could feed a friend through the ranks and a couple of weeks later enjoy running around xforming with them. You'd often have new governors/commanders/etc running around every now and then, leading sieges or even xforming for pvp.

First of all, what kind of a ridiculous assumption is that? I honestly can't recall a single person who is for enchant levels not being capped, doesn't matter if they're a GP apologist or not.
Also if you claim that it's broken, you should provide some arguments supporting that because "getting high ranks takes so long!!!!" isn't even really argument here. It would take just as long to rank up with AP system still being around, simply because most of the high ranks have accumulated ridiculous amounts of AP over time. The only really broken things about GP system are the mishap of AP -> GP quests being there at first and the currently unreasonably low requirements to keep ranks (let's say that 1450 GP over the time of 3 or 4 weeks is reasonable for 1-stars and 2-stars, but 5-stars.... yeah, not really). Sure, it has other not as major faults here and there, but this is more of a "lesser of 2 evils situation". You either have this, or a system which was punishing people for getting gear and x-forming.

And see, now THAT sounds broken. Technically rank is something a person should work for somehow by themselves, which was kinda forced with GP system after they took out the AP -> GP quests. Also this sorta situation was just messing over people who were playing without friends willing to spoonfeed them AP.
The high ranks "rotation" became kinda stagnant later on anyway, they usually had enough AP accumulated to be somewhat safe on their spots. Usually when there was a new governor, it usually meant the old one either quit or decided to give up the rank for one reason or another.

Oh yeah, as for Beritra peeps - they landed in relatively high ranks anyway, ex-governor is a general, rest falls probably into 5-star/4-star range. I'd be more worried about Danaria, taken it was 3-way merge. After the "ranking clearing" was implemented, I once logged in my KR-E alt and they didn't even have enough people to fill top 300 somehow, so...

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I might have plausible solution if they can't do anything to the gp system itself and rank reset is out of the question. How hard would it be for NCSOFT to possibly change each gp instance and or gp from siege to where if your a certain lower rank you gain slightly more gp and have it scale and various tiers. in order to help new players. lets say like OW or IDL gives 150 currently to everyone, how change to where maybe a Rank 1 player would gain 300 to 400. and as the person ranks up the gp they gain scales down back to normal to maybe when they reach 4 star or 5 star. I think this is a fair solution to "ACTIVE" players and new comers who intend to be active. since all other options might be out of question and hard to do.

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