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Rinkusan-KT

The "Filthy Casuals" of Aion

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On 12/9/2017 at 6:02 AM, Rinkusan-KT said:

But in Aion? Apparently, you HAVE to grind for the best gear to have fun. You HAVE to be somewhat competitive to have fun. Why? Because if you don't, you get locked out of most of the game. No solid PvE gear or PvE experience? No bastion of souls, ToE, CoE, etc. No solid PvP gear or PvP experience? No pre-made PvP instances to join; only quick-groups that more often than not end up being afk sessions. You're locked out of almost every enjoyable in-game content, and all you're left with is zerg-PvP, outdated housing content, coalition-based sieges filled with afk liabilities, the useless PvE instances, and mountain-climbing - a very limited and somewhat unrewarding hobby due to the many invisible walls the developers decided to place in every map (particularly Poeta :/).

     this part seems like the bulk of the argument but the lockouts ik of is ToE/BoS mainly because people want to progress in BoS still (most groups are running easy mode and idk about other groups but i sure as hell want to run hard mode and i have a much higher chance with like minded geared individuals) and ToE which most people don't actually clear this instance even with decent players its hard to bring someone without the gear/knowledge of their class to pull required numbers for the dps races. Like a casual player saying "take me to your progression instances that you often have trouble with, i do 2k dps and cant dodge due to lag" i would respond with a "LOL good luck with that" because they literally aren't capable of doing said instance and would drag the group down. but if they were say 7k-8k and i did 10k it would be possible but they have to keep in mind these runs were created with the cream la cream players in mind not for the casuals since it would be like me saying "adma/theo is too easy lets make it hard AF so i can have some fun running it". its content MADE with the intent for end game players to have something like how they nerfed aoe/coe for more casual players to work with.

    As for CoE im pretty sure its possible in the lvl 55 quest gear if you have a solid group that plays well after the nerf just need to get out there and make some friends i would take friends over a geared pug any day(LUL 2 the ones who bought BoS gear and do 3.5k dps). As well the gear/experience isn't everything in instances as it is possible to strap on a mythic AC set +10 (pretty low tier gear) slap in knowledge +7 (pretty low tier stones they're like 10m on my server i don't even feli them anymore) and do more dps than most of the geared people granted it takes experimentation of rotations but u learn once and forever will you know how to dps :) -from a gunner who did BoS in AC gear +10 knowledge 7 with lvl 74 world drop cannon fused with AC cannon and 2 lvl 77 world drop pistols pulling high end dps (that or u can just ask friends for some tips and try to learn off those ive helped plenty of people who asked out but i refuse to go out and help if they don't ask). Granted i'm personally not a casual player per say (i like to call it Asian casual, like NA try hard except i don't spend a poop ton every month) but the point i want to make its not asking casual players to be the top end of dps but just enough to pull your own weight or even a little less if you have high dps friends and then just make friends who will take you or want to run and just form a group with them to learn the instance. Personally i put this instance towards the semi-casual content more than the locked out content as its only slightly harder than AoE which is dirt easy.

    PvP instances, most people who PvP want to win and is often the epitome of competitive play as most people who want to PvP are literally competing against each other and if i had to pick between two people that i don't know who i had to work with one with gear one without i will 100% pick the more geared person because they have a higher chance of holding their own against the enemy's geared people. so in this case i don't really see a way for in between unless they worked up a pvp ranking system but then groups would be harder to find since pugs mess with the rating or made everyone solo queue along with ranking system but people will complain they don't get to play with friends(i sure as hell would as i did with coalition siege). Although i have seen a few groups that do queue for fun on DN server, personally i wouldn't join said groups but if the casual community is as interested in casual pvp as you say, these groups shouldn't be hard to make yourself since people would be dying to get into the few groups that there are imo. (basics of supply and demand if there's only you supplying something that the casual community wants they will jump on it).

     the reason for people qutting IMHO is through the same reason why i keep playing but the other side of the balance. Friends are what has kept me around aion (i quit when they quit on tiamat in 4.8 and came back when they were around again in 5.0 ish i just decided to stick around) and its the argument i use when people ask me to play another MMO> the reason people don't want to always swap to the newest and greatest is because it doesn't offer enough change to validate the swap, do i really want to grind for levels and a new set of gear, make new friends when i already have friends around in aion? no not really if its like one little change. But this is starting to not be the case which should be expected, i mean this game is 10 years old and runs mediocre at best on medium-high end computers. the newest and the greatest is starting to have more pull as games advance and keep stacking up more and more perks that whole groups of friends are leaving together (i believe the most recent example is revelations online). the optimization, the graphics, the combat system changes are just some of the things that are piling up against aion in terms of what they offer where as aion is still "my friends are here and i have my character already set up so i will stay" is the main reason people are quitting. its simply the balance of whats keeping people here vs what other games are doing to pull people away and as they refine said mechanics of the game i would expect more to leave unless aion gets a major overhaul which would basically be aion 2 since it would basically be a different game built upon a dying one.

Edited by Ariana-DN

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On 12/16/2017 at 4:32 PM, Ariana-DN said:

     this part seems like the bulk of the argument but the lockouts ik of is ToE/BoS mainly because people want to progress in BoS still (most groups are running easy mode and idk about other groups but i sure as hell want to run hard mode and i have a much higher chance with like minded geared individuals) and ToE which most people don't actually clear this instance even with decent players its hard to bring someone without the gear/knowledge of their class to pull required numbers for the dps races. Like a casual player saying "take me to your progression instances that you often have trouble with, i do 2k dps and cant dodge due to lag" i would respond with a "LOL good luck with that" because they literally aren't capable of doing said instance and would drag the group down. but if they were say 7k-8k and i did 10k it would be possible but they have to keep in mind these runs were created with the cream la cream players in mind not for the casuals since it would be like me saying "adma/theo is too easy lets make it hard AF so i can have some fun running it". its content MADE with the intent for end game players to have something like how they nerfed aoe/coe for more casual players to work with.

    As for CoE im pretty sure its possible in the lvl 55 quest gear if you have a solid group that plays well after the nerf just need to get out there and make some friends i would take friends over a geared pug any day(LUL 2 the ones who bought BoS gear and do 3.5k dps). As well the gear/experience isn't everything in instances as it is possible to strap on a mythic AC set +10 (pretty low tier gear) slap in knowledge +7 (pretty low tier stones they're like 10m on my server i don't even feli them anymore) and do more dps than most of the geared people granted it takes experimentation of rotations but u learn once and forever will you know how to dps :) -from a gunner who did BoS in AC gear +10 knowledge 7 with lvl 74 world drop cannon fused with AC cannon and 2 lvl 77 world drop pistols pulling high end dps (that or u can just ask friends for some tips and try to learn off those ive helped plenty of people who asked out but i refuse to go out and help if they don't ask). Granted i'm personally not a casual player per say (i like to call it Asian casual, like NA try hard except i don't spend a poop ton every month) but the point i want to make its not asking casual players to be the top end of dps but just enough to pull your own weight or even a little less if you have high dps friends and then just make friends who will take you or want to run and just form a group with them to learn the instance. Personally i put this instance towards the semi-casual content more than the locked out content as its only slightly harder than AoE which is dirt easy.

    PvP instances, most people who PvP want to win and is often the epitome of competitive play as most people who want to PvP are literally competing against each other and if i had to pick between two people that i don't know who i had to work with one with gear one without i will 100% pick the more geared person because they have a higher chance of holding their own against the enemy's geared people. so in this case i don't really see a way for in between unless they worked up a pvp ranking system but then groups would be harder to find since pugs mess with the rating or made everyone solo queue along with ranking system but people will complain they don't get to play with friends(i sure as hell would as i did with coalition siege). Although i have seen a few groups that do queue for fun on DN server, personally i wouldn't join said groups but if the casual community is as interested in casual pvp as you say, these groups shouldn't be hard to make yourself since people would be dying to get into the few groups that there are imo. (basics of supply and demand if there's only you supplying something that the casual community wants they will jump on it).

     the reason for people qutting IMHO is through the same reason why i keep playing but the other side of the balance. Friends are what has kept me around aion (i quit when they quit on tiamat in 4.8 and came back when they were around again in 5.0 ish i just decided to stick around) and its the argument i use when people ask me to play another MMO> the reason people don't want to always swap to the newest and greatest is because it doesn't offer enough change to validate the swap, do i really want to grind for levels and a new set of gear, make new friends when i already have friends around in aion? no not really if its like one little change. But this is starting to not be the case which should be expected, i mean this game is 10 years old and runs mediocre at best on medium-high end computers. the newest and the greatest is starting to have more pull as games advance and keep stacking up more and more perks that whole groups of friends are leaving together (i believe the most recent example is revelations online). the optimization, the graphics, the combat system changes are just some of the things that are piling up against aion in terms of what they offer where as aion is still "my friends are here and i have my character already set up so i will stay" is the main reason people are quitting. its simply the balance of whats keeping people here vs what other games are doing to pull people away and as they refine said mechanics of the game i would expect more to leave unless aion gets a major overhaul which would basically be aion 2 since it would basically be a different game built upon a dying one.

Your point about my "locked out of instance" comment is - and correct me if I'm wrong - basically, "Here's a strategy for how newbies can make their way into a CoE run". It's a fine strategy, but it doesn't answer the problem that I'm presenting in this thread: casual players have nothing else to do in this game except hop on the competitive gear grind, whether it's PvE or PvP.

I probably should've worded my original post better, but what I was trying to say is, "Most of Aion content requires you to hop on the competitive/semi-competitive gear grind bandwagon, whether it's PvP instances or most PvE instances. *What about the casual players who don't take these instances seriously and don't want to be a part of this bandwagon?* Well, all they have is outdated housing mechanics, a disappointing open-world PvP system, a flawed coalition-based siege system, and a few casual PvE instances like fissure, adma, and theo that get tiring after the first few runs."

So the big question here is NOT "how do we get casual players to run tough PvE instances?". The question is "what fun thing is there to do if you choose not to do any tough PvE or PvP instances?" I ask this because casual players play to "have fun at their own pace", NOT to "get strong enough to run a tough instance".



 

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I'm afraid there's no much fun left for casual players. Someone can play some old instances, do some role play, level a new alt, chat, but when most of your friends quit/start to play some other game, there aren't many reasons to keep playing this game. I still have 170 omegas and 120 tempering, that I collected and never used (because I never cared) nor sold (because I didn't really need kinah).

I came back last day, after a while, because I always collected snowballs for Christmas, with my 5 accounts, and I found Sanctum filled with lots of players completely still/afk. The feeling that I had, while going to claim my 2 snowballs (weren't 8 per character before?) was like passing through a horde of zombies. The game was so heavy to load, slow, and despite the hundreds and hundreds of players logged-in, there was a scent of old and stale. LFG had only 4 groups: 2 for a "fast" Theo (and I never joined fast runs), 1 for COE (only first 2 bosses), and 1 from someone who wanted to sell snowballs cheap. Why did we merge the servers? I only find more afkers, slower maps, but always the same handful of groups in LFG. Wasn't the idea to have more people to play contents with?

I don't want to complain, because if there are still many players/characters logged-in, it means that the game is still funny for many people. That's a good thing. But casual players... they will hardly come back. You'll miss Aion very badly for the first 2-3 days. But after 2 or even 1 month, it becomes just a long gone memory. Like any form of addiction.

The forum is more entertaining though.

Edited by KallSu-KT

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2 minutes ago, KallSu-KT said:

The forum is more entertaining though.

I like coming here. Reading all the complaining is great. Yet no one really makes a stand. But then again for anything to really change or be heard, the community has to work together and well... That I noticed when I played everyone hates each other and if you can gain something by screwing over someone, guess what it's an online game so they do what they want. That's why I quit though. Best advice I can give is uninstall.

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9 hours ago, Rinkusan-KT said:

Your point about my "locked out of instance" comment is - and correct me if I'm wrong - basically, "Here's a strategy for how newbies can make their way into a CoE run". It's a fine strategy, but it doesn't answer the problem that I'm presenting in this thread: casual players have nothing else to do in this game except hop on the competitive gear grind, whether it's PvE or PvP.

I probably should've worded my original post better, but what I was trying to say is, "Most of Aion content requires you to hop on the competitive/semi-competitive gear grind bandwagon, whether it's PvP instances or most PvE instances. *What about the casual players who don't take these instances seriously and don't want to be a part of this bandwagon?* Well, all they have is outdated housing mechanics, a disappointing open-world PvP system, a flawed coalition-based siege system, and a few casual PvE instances like fissure, adma, and theo that get tiring after the first few runs."

So the big question here is NOT "how do we get casual players to run tough PvE instances?". The question is "what fun thing is there to do if you choose not to do any tough PvE or PvP instances?" I ask this because casual players play to "have fun at their own pace", NOT to "get strong enough to run a tough instance".



 

true but i mean personally i find fun in gearing out my character with friends, my point about CoE was its a relatively easy instance to get into and complete and most lucrative so its the perfect example of middle game. My view of how i would be a casual player is basically look at end game differently, what do i want from end game if i don't want the best and greatest gear? and my answer would be decent gear to just do w/e on with friends and kinah to buy skins and chat with friends while looking fabulous. CoE is the best place to do so as it is the best kinah farm if u finish the last boss to buy skins or w/e else you want eventually :P. the term "casual" to me is not some1 who doesn't want to progress/run harder stuff at all but people who want to get the middle game and call it as its the "good enough" point where they can do most other things which can be different stages for people, instead of putting the time which they might not have into getting to finish the end game completely. For example i know friends who don't have time to play much but they always play at the same time, all of them are relatively under geared and don't do the greatest damage. They go into CoE and struggle on every boss, run adma theo DS FP AoE but just enjoy the game simply because they enjoy running instances with each other as opposed to running instances for gear. (an excuse to hang out as a group)

as for what there is to do if you actually don't want to run pve instances is just hang with a community of friends maybe do a few of the low end instances as your not running the instance to get something done its more of a pass time like going bowling with friends or having a drink like the people i mentioned above, you might not enjoy bowling or even drink often but its nice to just hang out with friends. If that's not your cup of tea either, i think mmos in general might be the wrong genre of games for u in general :o. i would aim towards something closer to a game you personally enjoy playing + start on an even level every match (mobas,rocket league, building games maybe even shooter games w/e you personally enjoy doing) things that you can just pick up, play and w/e happens doesn't matter if you don't care about the ranking system. I do personally play these games casually when im bored and friends aren't on. since mmos are largely based on some want of progressing your character in some form and enjoying your time with friends you made playing the same game at least from my experience of every single mmo i've played out there (wow,tera,aion,rift,ragnarok,maplestory,runescape,cronous,fly for fun, ect) none of which realistically have anything that you constantly want to do without progressing through and enjoying new content other than chat as things like world exploration are one and done content and u don't really have any replay ability value there.

the best example of what made aion more enjoyable for me is during 4.x when everyone was running EB, its a boring instance after you do it 23423423 times but it can basically turn into a chat room where we just throw jokes at each other or just chat about things (like oumashoe driving our tank off a cliff or our chanter missing WoW at the start box on half their group or talking about how you saw ur friend get mauled by like 5 bots the other day). You just get memorable moments playing with friends doing funny/dumb things instead of running EB.

Edited by Ariana-DN

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basically think of aion as a medium its not about the gear/difficult instances its about playing with friends and if your friends want to run harder and harder stuff ---> get the minimum to run with them. Its not about wanting to run harder dungeons or the gear, its not about joining the band wagon, its about hanging out with friends with a common interest(aion). Basically like if u played bowling and you go to the bowling alley and meet people. there's the people who want to win competitions and the people who just play for fun. if you have no interest in playing bowling then your most likely just there as an excuse to hang out with friends(which would be your reason to play and what you enjoy). if you don't have any of the above, then your most likely just in the wrong place

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