Alvish-DN Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 As the title says, who has the advtagenof winning 1v1? Same gears and ping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista-DN Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I would worry more about whomever is more skilled , and to a lesser extent - their level difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiatra-KT Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 level difference and timing of skills, whoever gets the insta-stun/fear off 1st basically has won... sorc may have harder hitting skills, but an SM can keep the lockdown going if timed right. Want truly scary? get stuck in a 3v3 arena against both and SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-KT Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Be a sm with 6k5 MS set and you will find sorc so easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista-DN Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Medivac-KT said: Be a sm with 6k5 MS set and you will find sorc so easy... and what if the sorc has one? or another set? Go back to OP wrote "given equal gear" - skill and strategy is more of an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-KT Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 19 hours ago, Calista-DN said: and what if the sorc has one? or another set? Go back to OP wrote "given equal gear" - skill and strategy is more of an advantage. Fact is, only SM has those buffz giving 700 extra MS. Sorc can only do 5k8 (6k max if sacrificing MB). And at this level, 100 MS makes huge difference. Another significant difference is. SM's damage comes from DOTs, damage OVER TIME. It means the damage stays and will still increase back to streak once the sorc switches back to MB set. But sm doesn't have to worry about this. Let's be real here, sm 100% wins sorc this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline-DN Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The glory days of sorcs ended in 3.0. They are damn near the bottom in 5.0+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista-DN Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 This thread is amusing., but given that 16 hours ago, Skyline-DN said: The glory days of sorcs ended in 3.0. They are damn near the bottom in 5.0+ so many people that go from never PVPing to facing 75s on a sorc, no surprised you would think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 14/12/2017 at 3:37 PM, Medivac-KT said: Fact is, only SM has those buffz giving 700 extra MS. Sorc can only do 5k8 (6k max if sacrificing MB). And at this level, 100 MS makes huge difference. Another significant difference is. SM's damage comes from DOTs, damage OVER TIME. It means the damage stays and will still increase back to streak once the sorc switches back to MB set. But sm doesn't have to worry about this. Let's be real here, sm 100% wins sorc this patch. 100% win??? i dont think so Yes, SM have damage over time, but there is something you are not taking into consideration, all SM skills have a long cast time with nothing but a scroll to reduce it, and sorcs two skills to reduce the cast time besides the scroll, so before you can use all your dots skills, you have to fear the sorc, giving it enough time to sleep you too. So in summary, we return to what was said before, everything has to do with which player is more skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 fact, if sm hits instant fear ---> fear lock they will win every 1v1 just need to not 1v1 more than once every 3 minutes. sleep isnt instant theres a slight charge time to it, instant fear is well... instant and no counter play (not even clerics can despell you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline-DN Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/17/2017 at 2:38 PM, Calista-DN said: This thread is amusing., but given that so many people that go from never PVPing to facing 75s on a sorc, no surprised you would think that. Oh god.. here comes the.... "oh you never pvp so you don't know what you're talking about" speech. I stopped playing for a while but I'm still pretty confident I'd still probably wreck you on my old 55 twinks LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 On 21/12/2017 at 0:29 PM, Ariana-DN said: fact, if sm hits instant fear ---> fear lock they will win every 1v1 just need to not 1v1 more than once every 3 minutes. sleep isnt instant theres a slight charge time to it, instant fear is well... instant and no counter play (not even clerics can despell you). Fact is, spiritmasters are not the only class with instant skills, i can use Freeze to make you move slow, Abzolute zero and you will have to use remove shock to release from the effect, Root and you wont be able to move, Curse of weakness (not an easy skill to be dispelled) so while im under the efect of fear, you will also be reciving considerable damage while you use all your dots skills on me, and if you use your skill to resist one magic attack, i can always use blind leap so the moment that the effect of fear is already on me, you will have to move more distance than normal to reach me and which will make you lose time to use all your skills. My point is, no matter what your class or other classes can do, all classes have a way of counteracting the skills of the other clases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Vessttemona-KT said: Fact is, spiritmasters are not the only class with instant skills, i can use Freeze to make you move slow, Abzolute zero and you will have to use remove shock to release from the effect, Root and you wont be able to move, Curse of weakness (not an easy skill to be dispelled) so while im under the efect of fear, you will also be reciving considerable damage while you use all your dots skills on me, and if you use your skill to resist one magic attack, i can always use blind leap so the moment that the effect of fear is already on me, you will have to move more distance than normal to reach me and which will make you lose time to use all your skills. My point is, no matter what your class or other classes can do, all classes have a way of counteracting the skills of the other clases. fact, if they hit RS they have a 2nd instant fear to hit u with and move speed slow = non factor when they root u in fear ---> fear lock started by pressing their RS button twice and playing "blind leap the instant fear" is basically you see an animation and pray its instant fear and not erosion or any other instant spell if you even have the ping to react to instant skills, if you use it on their RS fear, they have a 2nd instant fear for when ur back in range. Also fact 1-2 dots from a sorc wont 100-0 a SM(unless your in 75ap knowledge gear and they're in skins) but an sm hitting you for free while being feared for like 15 seconds total will 100-0 a sorc. in conclusion sm will have taken "considerable damage" (probably more than 50% life against 2 dots) and your dead. also your absolute zero skill makes them invulnerable while their stunned. its basically the argument of playing reactive vs proactive, proactive play is 100% better and blind leaping the instant fear (basically 1shot i win button since it removes all counter play) is a reactive play and basically the only play i mean theres a reason why instant fear into fear lock is a crutch, because its stupidly broken on a stupidly broken class and offers 0 counterplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Spiritmaster skills hae animation too, even if they are instant, and dont forget i still can use your summon to heal me, so good bye all the damage you have done to me, dont talk like the sm are better class than sorcs which they are not, and sorcs are not better than sm, as i said before its all about which player is more skilled. edit: sorry if than sounded im angry, but im not, its just i have a different oppinion than yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 >healing when ur either feared or dead ??? and yes sm have animations but like i said AZ = free instant fear cd, fear = free root = move speed/roots are non factor, dots wont 100-0 sm, fear = 15 sec of free damage +free burry. 15 seconds of free damage from a decent sm will 100-0 you and you cant heal when your dead not to mention sm can pot while ur rooted/slowed/curse of weaknessed while you cant pot while your feared saying you can heal off pet = counter to sm is like saying glad can heal off pet with draining attacks = counter to sm LUL also when you say they have animations, the instant fears both have very quick start up animations and then longer after animations, this prevents casting but the actual fear goes through early in the animation and they just have to wait for it to finish to follow up which isnt a deal breaker when u have 5 seconds to react with next fear. aion is far from balanced 1v1 im not saying sm is better than sorc in every aspect but in 1v1 regards SM with instant fear is just stupidly broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista-DN Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Ariana-DN said: fact, if they hit RS they have a 2nd instant fear to hit u with and move speed slow = non factor when they root u in fear ---> fear lock started by pressing their RS button twice and playing "blind leap the instant fear" is basically you see an animation and pray its instant fear and not erosion or any other instant spell if you even have the ping to react to instant skills, if you use it on their RS fear, they have a 2nd instant fear for when ur back in range. Also fact 1-2 dots from a sorc wont 100-0 a SM(unless your in 75ap knowledge gear and they're in skins) but an sm hitting you for free while being feared for like 15 seconds total will 100-0 a sorc. in conclusion sm will have taken "considerable damage" (probably more than 50% life against 2 dots) and your dead. also your absolute zero skill makes them invulnerable while their stunned. its basically the argument of playing reactive vs proactive, proactive play is 100% better and blind leaping the instant fear (basically 1shot i win button since it removes all counter play) is a reactive play and basically the only play i mean theres a reason why instant fear into fear lock is a crutch, because its stupidly broken on a stupidly broken class and offers 0 counterplay As you said, PROACTIVE. This is what makes playing a sorc challenging- playing a sorc is like playing chess- if you don't think ahead, and on't have situational awareness, you're dead. Things go south very fast. If the sorc doesn't panic then they have a decent chance to win, especially if they have also played an SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Ariana-DN said: >healing when ur either feared or dead ??? and yes sm have animations but like i said AZ = free instant fear cd, fear = free root = move speed/roots are non factor, dots wont 100-0 sm, fear = 15 sec of free damage +free burry. 15 seconds of free damage from a decent sm will 100-0 you and you cant heal when your dead not to mention sm can pot while ur rooted/slowed/curse of weaknessed while you cant pot while your feared saying you can heal off pet = counter to sm is like saying glad can heal off pet with draining attacks = counter to sm LUL also when you say they have animations, the instant fears both have very quick start up animations and then longer after animations, this prevents casting but the actual fear goes through early in the animation and they just have to wait for it to finish to follow up which isnt a deal breaker when u have 5 seconds to react with next fear. aion is far from balanced 1v1 im not saying sm is better than sorc in every aspect but in 1v1 regards SM with instant fear is just stupidly broken if you think you can kill a sorc using two fears (fear, dot, dot, fear, dot dot dot) you are complety wrong, they really must be undergeard or two or three lvls lower than the sm. If the sm didnt use their silence skill i still can use slumberswept wind to sleep them and ill just have to w8 for the few seconds left for the silence skill to run off and while that happen i can use abyss pots and regular pots. I just need to use my stamina absortion in sm pet to fill my hp at least 3/4 of my total hp while a gladiator need more than one mob to fill up their hp. so its LOL to you the idea of using abzolute zero at the beginning of the duel is for the SM to waste their remove shock and time, if any sorc wants to use another skill while the effect is on, its LMAOL to them. what you said about animations, same thing happens to the sorc skill animations, so before the animation ends the sm would be already rooted, moving slowly, frozen, and if i used magic assist and vaizel wisdom before the duel start i can put the sm to sleep because sleeping storm would hava a cast of less than a second, practically instantane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 1. sm has more than 2 fears, 1 instant 1 shriek 1 ginsin and 4 if u start with the RS one (btw what kind of SM doesnt burry silence if they think they wont kill u lmao) 2. glads hit the SM with their aoe leech + their single target leeches on the pet still wont make a difference 3. it dun matter if u get 1shot from fear lock 4. it just so happens roots/slows dont do very much when u get instant rooted from fear chain (they have an instant root for fearing u just need to hit the button :), also sleep storm less than a second > instant fear u may as well say u can use somnolence charge 1 and not waste your cds but its still slower than instant as almost instant < instant. not to mention its possible for sm to "ripple" sleep storm with wind pet iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Calista-DN said: As you said, PROACTIVE. This is what makes playing a sorc challenging- playing a sorc is like playing chess- if you don't think ahead, and on't have situational awareness, you're dead. Things go south very fast. If the sorc doesn't panic then they have a decent chance to win, especially if they have also played an SM. right but the edge goes to sm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Doesnt matter how many fears your sm have, use silence during your first fear combo and you will be asleep at the end of your second fear combo, dont do it and you will be asleep at the of the first one, doesnt matter, you wont be able to use your third fear combo at that moment. and once again, the idea of using those skills is to cc you, to make you waste time, time you are gonna need to use all your dots skills. that 1 second you will use to remove what ever skill i have used, 1 second you will no longer have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 what kind of low tier sm are u fighting that cant kill u in 18 seconds the point is u die in 1 fear combo since ur literally down and taking free damage for 18 seconds including the pvp reduction already or more. if that's not enough they have a 6-8 second silence burried for free cuz they were basically killing u with dots the whole time they just need to hit the button. if they don't kill u in 24 seconds seconds of u basically afking somethings wrong with them might want to have them learn how to dps a little if they're not afk themselves. (btw as i said if ur in range of fear they will automatically root u basically ---> slows/roots mean nothing + greater healing pot to despell doesn't actually use an animation u can cancel it and use it during an animation). (6-8 second instant fear 80% pvp duration) 5-6.5 seconds worth of fear + (11-18 second fear shreak 60% pvp duration 1.5 second cast time) 6.6 - 14.4 seconds worth of fear + (8-15 seconds single fear 2.5 second cast time ) 4.8 - 9 seconds worth of fear = low end of 16.4 total fear time and a high end 29.9 seconds of fear with 5 seconds of cast time(with a .5 seconds leeway between each cast) averaging 23.15 seconds of fear. =with leeway of .5 seconds accounting for cast time ull have 18 seconds average of free dps. 25k hp (easily over what people have in pvp) = 1.4k dps~. this is low for a SM with knowledge gear ---> this is not counting the fact the SMs have spirit sub/command body guard if things go south (can sneak them in between sleep chains) and at high levels of play able to ripple sleep. there's a reason why sms are considered BM to spiritsub/bg/fear in duels but 1v1 open world has no rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessttemona-KT Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 a fear that last 11-18 seconds?? really??? its pretty clear you have no idea what sorcs can do, get your self one, gear it and learn how to pvp with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 http://aiondatabase.net/en/skill/3589/http://aiondatabase.net/en/skill/3592/http://aiondatabase.net/en/skill/3775/http://aiondatabase.net/en/skill/3572/ pls read the math and not just look at the first numbers you see in brackets explaining how numbers are gotten and taking that for full value... its all written right there 11-18 seconds in pve with 60% duration in pvp = 6.6 -14.4 second fear on fear shreak (yes it does last 11-18 sec in pve people actually use it when full rooms are pulled) on average the 3 fears chained will last 23.14 seconds the math is up there, links for reference. but yes, i do know what sorcs can do and that's beside the point when literally all a sm has to do is crutch instant fear and win 100% of 1v1s vs sorc since there is 0 counterplay. Sorc has a good chance at sm if their instant fear is on cd which is more often than not ( 5 min cd ) but not a snowballs chance in hell if all cds available and no holding back with fear lock/spirit sub. The argument stands at SM has 25m range instant fear ---> SM hits instant fear ---> sorc gets feared and sm starts dotting ---> instant fears almost off so he fears again which you cant do anything about since your feared ---> dps ---> fears again which once again cant do anything---> dps more --->if your lucky enough to survive he just needs to hit silence on u since there's already a crap ton of debuffs its already burried no effort needed. AZ is 20m range (and a stigma not everyone runs) so instant fear as its 25m range will always go off first, even at best case scenario you trade for instant fear he just RS into RS instant fear chain as long as he can 1 combo u it wont matter what cds are wasted dead = dead. sleep storm/somnolence both are not instant despite how close to instant they are so once again instant fear goes off first = interrupted cast --->good sm can ripple themselves if needed(earth pet) http://aiondatabase.net/en/skill/3531/ i'm tired of this argument though so ill drop it here, the numbers add up and math doesn't lie---> SM will have the jump as instant cast > not instant cast and 25m range > 20m range, roots/slows don't matter because fear chains into root so he presses it twice and your both rooted your still in 25m range(or less) and can use a pot while in animation of a dot, avoid magic spell > avoid physical spell in a magic vs magic scenario. the root of the problem is that most SMs don't actually play SM well they actually do this fear crutch and don't learn the game as its easy to play like this but even without fear SM is comparable to other classes as some have proven (funeral obbaya arozay) we will always see the SM who cant dps even in pve and u survive all 3 fears but SM dps is actually comparable to other dps classes in terms of what they can push out per second just not as bursty (aside from stone scour) but its at worst a low of 16.4 seconds total cc time with a cast time of 4 seconds only 2 casts to follow up instant fear and in 10 seconds of dps can probably match some burst in terms of total damage dished out (that's low roll on 3 fears) PS. whenever i got feared i thought it just felt like forever cuz i couldn't do beans but now that ive done the math i realize it actually lasts forever i could probably go to the washroom take a wee and come back ill still be feared if they highroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 casts of fear as in thats the leeway time needed since some of the fear will overlap (preferably as little as possible since overlap cc is bad) 10 seconds of dps with 25k hp would only need 2.5k dps btw (that dps is possible in like 4.5 before knowledge stones started boosting everyones dps with mb/critspell composites) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariana-DN Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 noticed a mistake in the fear reduction math was eating while mathing = 5 to 6.5 + 6.6 to 10.8 + 4.8 to 9 = 5.75 + 8.7 + 6.9 = 21.35 so average is still 21.35 seconds worth of fear in a full chain with 4 seconds worth of cast (1.5 on fear shriek 2.5 on single fear) still easily 15+ seconds worth of dps on average even 30k hp will only require 2k dps on a target who cant pop cds/pots and no heals it not that demanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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