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If you were in charge of the 6.0 class rebalance, how would you go about it?

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23 hours ago, Commission-DN said:

There's a reason why Hypergate Detonation takes us ATs out of our Bastions. Just silence an AT or if you're a plate, stumblestumblestumble constantly. It is NOT broken, LOL.

Oh boy, your AT bias is showing.

You do realize to reduce a skilled/geared AT's hp down to the point when they must use hypergate is difficult enough as it is. By that time, any other class would have already exhausted their CD's and pots. While you're already 20m away from the target, they need to chase you down while you run away for 10 seconds and you're full HP again? Lol ok there buddy....

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Mempo-KT   
2 hours ago, Skyline-DN said:

Oh boy, your AT bias is showing.

You do realize to reduce a skilled/geared AT's hp down to the point when they must use hypergate is difficult enough as it is. By that time, any other class would have already exhausted their CD's and pots. While you're already 20m away from the target, they need to chase you down while you run away for 10 seconds and you're full HP again? Lol ok there buddy....

Yeah, but they all look stupid as hell. We run around as bunnies and low poly pandas for 3% attack speed; same concept.

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Ryzin-DN   

I would

1. Reduce temps damage by at least 25%. Increase CD on Stubborn Spirit to 1 min that doesn't start until they are out of the stance so they actually have to think about when to use it.

2. Add cast time to Sw's harmony skills. Delete the delay in their dispels so they cant dispel themselves from a fear/sleep. Increase CD time on many of their skills.

3. Delete Gunners and Sw's having a silence skill.

4. Make ALL skills on Gunners and AT's magical, thus making silence completely shut them down instead of a bind.

4. Give Sorcs a silence resist penetration buff to robe of flames.

5. Buff Rangers blind

6.Give Sorcs a bind skill and a buff like iron skin.

7. Give Clerics a reduction in healing boost when they go over a certain amount of MR, Block or Strike resist, like in Notaion.

8. No range reduction for Rangers bestial fury and make their damage less RNG like. Boost their overall HP.

9. No random stuns, KB's or KD's from crits.

10. Also, when blinded you can not perform a crit. I think its enough you can still land most of your skills on a moving target while blinded

Edited by Ryzin-DN

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11 hours ago, Ryzin-DN said:

I would

1. Reduce temps damage by at least 25%. Increase CD on Stubborn Spirit to 1 min that doesn't start until they are out of the stance so they actually have to think about when to use it.

2. Add cast time to Sw's harmony skills. Delete the delay in their dispels so they cant dispel themselves from a fear/sleep. Increase CD time on many of their skills.

3. Delete Gunners and Sw's having a silence skill.

4. Make ALL skills on Gunners and AT's magical, thus making silence completely shut them down instead of a bind.

4. Give Sorcs a silence resist penetration buff to robe of flames.

5. Buff Rangers blind

6.Give Sorcs a bind skill and a buff like iron skin.

7. Give Clerics a reduction in healing boost when they go over a certain amount of MR, Block or Strike resist, like in Notaion.

8. No range reduction for Rangers bestial fury and make their damage less RNG like. Boost their overall HP.

9. No random stuns, KB's or KD's from crits.

10. Also, when blinded you can not perform a crit. I think its enough you can still land most of your skills on a moving target while blinded

basically nerf every class, but buff sorcs because you play sorc...... lol

Edited by Skyline-DN

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2 hours ago, Skyline-DN said:

basically nerf every class, but buff sorcs because you play sorc...... lol

You may not the idea of anyone introducing any changes to temps, since they are in such as strong position, however he is suggesting a number of very fair changes to classes, some of which are buffs to a sorc's typical anti-class (rangers).

The suggested changes to sorcs are quite reasonable although I would expect a lot of people to object as soon as they seen any  association of iron skin and sorc,

In the cases where there is a nerf, I don't think you would find so many objections to some of them, such as making gunner/AT  skills more clearly magical (they're kind of a hybrid now, which can really be worked to their advantage), or giving SW less insta-cast and/or longer CD skills so they have to actually think about what they're doing.

Edited by Calista-DN

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26 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

You may not the idea of anyone introducing any changes to temps, since they are in such as strong position, however he is suggesting a number of very fair changes to classes, some of which are buffs to a sorc's typical anti-class (rangers).

The suggested changes to sorcs are quite reasonable although I would expect a lot of people to object as soon as they seen any  association of iron skin and sorc,

In the cases where there is a nerf, I don't think you would find so many objections to some of them, such as making gunner/AT  skills more clearly magical (they're kind of a hybrid now, which can really be worked to their advantage), or giving SW less insta-cast and/or longer CD skills so they have to actually think about what they're doing.

Why would I be opposed to temp nerfs? I don't even main a templar. I also used to main sorc.

And yeah, boon of iron clad is OP enough. Sorcs as a whole is okay. Their main downfall is their CD's. If I were to revamp sorcs it would be:

 

new/update skills:

1) give sorcs Inferno skill back as an additional "big" DPS skill

2) give sorcs boon of quickness as a regular skill that has 1m CD but drains an ADDITIONAL 25% mp

3) introduce new skill "boon of aether clad" that blocks all magic attacks for 5s, but shares cd with boon of iron clad

4) give ice harpoon as a regular skill and has 2s casting time and slows to target with 10s cd (replaces ice chain)

5) give elemental ward as a regular skill with 3m cd and increases all elemental defense, magic resist AND magic suppression by 500, 500 and 800 respectively for 1m 30s.

==============================================

reduce CD of the following:

1) reduce flame harpoon to 0 cd with 1s casting time (replaces flame bolt)

2) reduce cd of magic assist to 1m:30s

3) reduce cd of arcane t-bolt to 1m

4) reduce cd of root to 30s and winter binding to 45s

5) reduce cd of stamina absorption to 30s

6) reduce cd of sleeping storm to 2m

7) reduce cd of illusion to 1m 30s

8) reduce cd of frostbite to 30s

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Sw- Remove the silence resistance skill (and no don't give it to any other class), remove dragon song and staggering rest. Also adjust their crit spell modifier because out of the 3 mages classes they crit far more with less crit spell.

Sm- Remove the vision stigma bodyguard as the regular one is good enough. Adjust the stats or remove some stats from spirits empowerment. (speed, hp, mb ma and ms is way too much)

Temp- Reduce some of the stats from their stances or make it a skill that goes away after a few seconds and has a cd time.

Sin- Put more rng into some of their stuns so basically everyone who doesn't have UD, doesn't have to hope they survive their remove shock bait to see if they live , while also hoping a gs don't proc. Being that fast, having the damage they have and also being able to get away better than most classes in the game is good as it is.

Chanter- Just a borderline slight damage increase. Nothing too horrendous.

Cleric- Cleric is strong with gear sets but one problem I find with them in 1 vs 1 is that with no actual good cc, when you are fighting you live in defensive sets and wait your turn to attack. Still trying to figure out if that's a bad thing but sometimes you never get your turn and still die (in certain settings). I think that needs adjusting but everything I think of may make cleric too op. So maybe leave it how it is.

Ranger- The new mau form stats need adjusting or remove some as well. A class that can stun you, put you into a coma shouldn't have a new toggle dp skill that lets them avoid the stuff they do to people.

Sorc- Probably will do better once you realign the other classes.

Glad- Leave it as it as. For now. (Like a cleric I think giving it too much with the damage they have and kd capabilities might make them too op)

Gunner- Reduce cannon damage a bit. Does as much damage as a sorc and cast time is very quick.

AT- Remove Detonation and Mana leech

I play a sm, sw, sorc, cleric and also have an AT, temp, Chanter, ranger and a gunner. I like them all but the mages are more me. I do realize though they also have things they don't need.

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2 hours ago, Skyline-DN said:

Why would I be opposed to temp nerfs? I don't even main a templar. I also used to main sorc.

And yeah, boon of iron clad is OP enough. Sorcs as a whole is okay. Their main downfall is their CD's. If I were to revamp sorcs it would be:

 

new/update skills:

1) give sorcs Inferno skill back as an additional "big" DPS skill

2) give sorcs boon of quickness as a regular skill that has 1m CD but drains an ADDITIONAL 25% mp

3) introduce new skill "boon of aether clad" that blocks all magic attacks for 5s, but shares cd with boon of iron clad

4) give ice harpoon as a regular skill and has 2s casting time and slows to target with 10s cd (replaces ice chain)

5) give elemental ward as a regular skill with 3m cd and increases all elemental defense, magic resist AND magic suppression by 500, 500 and 800 respectively for 1m 30s.

==============================================

reduce CD of the following:

1) reduce flame harpoon to 0 cd with 1s casting time (replaces flame bolt)

2) reduce cd of magic assist to 1m:30s

3) reduce cd of arcane t-bolt to 1m

4) reduce cd of root to 30s and winter binding to 45s

5) reduce cd of stamina absorption to 30s

6) reduce cd of sleeping storm to 2m

7) reduce cd of illusion to 1m 30s

8) reduce cd of frostbite to 30s

You lost me when you called BOI OP.

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ee9.png

2 hours ago, Calista-DN said:

You lost me when you called BOI OP.

If being invulnerable to physicals for 5s isn't enough for you, then you're clearly doing it wrong lol

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35 minutes ago, Skyline-DN said:

ee9.png

If being invulnerable to physicals for 5s isn't enough for you, then you're clearly doing it wrong lol

Except that (a) it can be stripped  easily by more than 1 class (2) it has a very long CD (3) it has a short range (ever hear of extendibles?)   or rangers? and (4) in comparison to the damage that classes can now put out,  the damage it blocks makes the sorc far from invulnerable

Nice try, but no, it can be useful, it's far from OP.

Edited by Calista-DN

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13 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

Except that (a) it can be stripped  easily by more than 1 class (2) it has a very long CD (3) it has a short range (ever hear of extendibles?)   or rangers? and (4) in comparison to the damage that classes can now put out,  the damage it blocks makes the sorc far from invulnerable

Nice try, but no, it can be useful, it's far from OP.

You must be trolling me or something.

1) It's primarily used against physical users. None of which can strip skills. Unless you're using it for stun resist. If your main concern is a 1s stun from a SM or AT then you're pretty bad as a sorc

2) It used to be a 10m skill and it has been reduced to 5m... and again reduced to 3m via archedaeva skills to appease baddies

3) wtf does range have to do with it? you thinking of wintry armor or something? get your facts straight

4) if a physical class can dps 10k+ (15k with archedaeva) on you with non critting attacks within 5s, then you're heavily outgeared in which case BOIC is not the issue.....

 

it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about..... so you should just stop lol

Edited by Skyline-DN

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1 minute ago, Skyline-DN said:

You must be trolling me or something.

1) It's primarily used against physical users. None of which can strip skills. Unless you're using it for stun resist

2) It used to be a 10m skill and it has been reduced to 5m... and again reduced to 3m via archedaeva skills

3) wtf does range have to do with it? you thinking of wintry armor or something? get your facts straight

4) if a physical class can dps 10k+ on you with non critting attacks within 5s, then you're heavily outgeared in which case BOIC is not the issue.....

I was actually thing of WA, I'm quite familiar with both skills, sorry, unlike you , I am less than perfect, I humbly apologize  as I was thinking of another scenario. Incidentally you can strip it, unless you only PVP 1 v1,  that should be an important factor in any skill especially given its CD. 

Since many people find themselves primarly in non 1v1 situations, and this game is balanced around group PVP - so your stating that (4) not exceeding BOI in an extremely short period  due to someone not critting on the sorc "unless undergeared" is not the case- even as little as 2 melee can pull that off. The amount of damage it blocks is not OP, and as we both agree, it is melee only, and given the amount of  magic based classes, it definitely is not as useful as, let's say some of the SW shields. 10 k used to be enormous years ago, it isn't any more.

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1 minute ago, Calista-DN said:

I was actually thing of WA, I'm quite familiar with both skills, sorry, unlike you , I am less than perfect, I humbly apologize  as I was thinking of another scenario. Incidentally you can strip it, unless you only PVP 1 v1,  that should be an important factor in any skill especially given its CD. 

Since many people find themselves primarly in non 1v1 situations, and this game is balanced around group PVP - so your stating that (4) not exceeding BOI in an extremely short period  due to someone not critting on the sorc "unless undergeared" is not the case- even as little as 2 melee can pull that off. The amount of damage it blocks is not OP, and as we both agree, it is melee only, and given the amount of  magic based classes, it definitely is not as useful as, let's say some of the SW shields. 10 k used to be enormous years ago, it isn't any more.

re-read my edited post. archedaeva BOIC is 15k dmg with 3m cd.

also, so now you're changing topics/scenarios from balancing ONE class to another SINGLE class... to "how can i make sorcs 1 vs zerg"......... lol okay there buddy.... good job defeating the entire purpose of BALANCING ONE class vs ONE other at a time....

bet you want sorcs to have a sleeping storm that sleeps 60 people for 7 hours within 300 meter distance with a 30s cd too huh?

i bet you're one of those sorcs that instead of cc'ing in 1 vs X scenarios, you instantly pops wintry after BOIC and watches the enemy run away and kite you and then comes back and kills you huh? lmao

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4 minutes ago, Skyline-DN said:

re-read my edited post. archedaeva BOIC is 15k dmg with 3m cd.

also, so now you're changing topics/scenarios from balancing ONE class to another SINGLE class... to "how can i make sorcs 1 vs zerg"......... lol okay there buddy.... good job defeating the entire purpose of BALANCING ONE class vs ONE other at a time....

bet you want sorcs to have a sleeping storm that sleeps 60 people for 7 hours within 300 meter distance with a 30s cd too huh?

i bet you're one of those sorcs that instead of cc'ing in 1 vs X scenarios, you instantly pops wintry after BOIC and watches the enemy run away and kite you and then comes back and kills you huh? lmao

Interesting how someone can come to a completely incorrect conclusion all by themselves, since no where in any of my posts did I suggest any of  what you are panicking about. You seem very afraid about  any proposed class changes, however I'm looking forwards to them. It should be very refreshing.

. In any case, none of what we post here matters,  the game developers will do what they want. 

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2 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

Interesting how someone can come to a completely incorrect conclusion all by themselves, since no where in any of my posts did I suggest any of  what you are panicking about. You seem very afraid about  any proposed class changes, however I'm looking forwards to them. It should be very refreshing.

. In any case, none of what we post here matters,  the game developers will do what they want. 

Damn, you donald trump now? Say something then pretend you didn't? LOL

You JUST posted a scenario of NON 1v1 situations.

I'm opposed to stupid OP changes that clearly show class bias, a.k.a yours.

Dude, just get lost. You done... quiet down lmao

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13 hours ago, Skyline-DN said:

Damn, you donald trump now? Say something then pretend you didn't? LOL

You JUST posted a scenario of NON 1v1 situations.

I'm opposed to stupid OP changes that clearly show class bias, a.k.a yours.

Dude, just get lost. You done... quiet down lmao

as opposed to what you are doing, which is worse, just so that you can add to your post count?

5nvofb.png

 

Edited by 5s25C407-DN

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Yak-KT   

Some major outliers:

- Templar damage reduction skills need major reworks and/or nerfs, they're virtually unkillable and via 2k DP can reset a fight. It becomes a game of attrition and evolves into 5m+ duels. Not remotely fun. Even the worst templar ever can live for many minutes clicking skills at random and still burst you to 50% with a pull+gs burst, which is stupid.

- Songweavers need defensive nerfs, I'm okay with their damage. Their freestyle combo could use a nerf, but it's not unlike sorcerers, which I think is fine. It's just that they're also way tankier and have much more sustain than sorcerers in addition to their damage, which makes them too strong in 1v1 situations.

- Chanters need archdaeva skills removed outright, new protection ward is overpowered and their sustain is cleric-level while their damage has steadily increased over the years. 

- SM needs to have major nerfs to its strip damage (if it's dispelling stuff, that's already a reward. no need for it to do 10k damage ontop of that) and fear should probably break on a % damage threshold. 

Other generic things:

- A lot of classes just do too much damage for how tanky they are currently. Glads are a prime example where they become virtually unkillable and their cleaves take off 25% of your HP, heaven forbid you ever actually get in melee range. 

- RNG crit knockbacks and KDs need to be removed, rangers become gods or awful depending on RNG which is really bad design. 

 

Edited by Yak-KT

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Ehila-KT   

I just want to see heal spells and shields scale properly. With out talents base healing light heals for 1.5k, flash of recovery for 2.9k. Immortal shroud used to give a 6k shield back in 3.x it still does. but damage and hp numbers have gone up hugely.

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13 hours ago, Ehila-KT said:

I just want to see heal spells and shields scale properly. With out talents base healing light heals for 1.5k, flash of recovery for 2.9k. Immortal shroud used to give a 6k shield back in 3.x it still does. but damage and hp numbers have gone up hugely.

Except that you do have talents, if invested properly then heals shouldn't be an issue. In addition, there are not one but 2 support classes. If a bard/chanter isn't brain dead they should be coordinating  (supporting) with you. The chances of you're not having one of the two in a group now are fairly low.

If you run solo or solo heal, then again, there's a good thread in the class forum where the clerics discuss the CP talents. Even on my poorly geared cleric, it hasn't been an issue.

Edited by 5s25C407-DN

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I'm a little nervous about how they're going to deal with songweavers, because when they nerfed gunners (which was needed, yes) everyone stopped playing that class, and if that happens with people leaving songweavers we could have a problem with mana. I feel like NCsoft should focus on songweaver's defense and cc skills rather than trying to lower their damage. (or, ya know, change mana to how it used to be so everyone isn't so reliant on songweavers)

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