Evergale Kick from Alliance finally implemented

[Arhangelos]

I see the tears of those afkers, whining about being kicked from Evergale from being afk. The guy below even was so st**pid that said that either if they are afk or not the outcome is the same. He doesn't understand that afkers take slots and an active player could have been in there.

Now with this comedy being said, IF by any chance someone who is active is kicked from the alliance just because the leader is bad or against this specific person. Would opening a ticket work?

Like can GMs (given the time of the instance) see that the player was in Evergale and that he did damage and moved etc so as to understand that this kicking was an abuse of power?

Enjoy the little conversation we had with an afker

[Exirn-KT]

Can we report people who randomly kick? I wasn't afk and this guy kept ready checking even though we were down 4k points. Told him to stop and he kicked me...

[Bryos-DN]

It is true that kicking or not kicking is the same result though, unless you do it within the first minutes. The recruit time for Evergale Canyon (as in the window in which it allows people to join) is rather short after the instance starts. If you start kicking people too late, your slots will not be replaced, and you will probably end up looking in the eyes of others as a salty leader.

And yes, getting kicked as a result of a disagreement between the person and the kicker, as long as the person was not AFK, is a very solid reason to open a ticket.

Edit:

Yes, random kicking as well. You can report for that as well.

[Nyali-DN]

I'd suggest you to submit a ticket if you weren't AFKing and just had a disagreement with the leader of your alliance, so he kicked you. Good luck! <3

[Arhangelos]

I approve of kicking afkers even the last minute. It is actually the right thing to do, ONLY when they are afk.

It seems afkers have a way to automatically click the ready check button. BUT people who never move from the base, never use scrolls, never use skills, their HP/MP never drops a single pixel... they are afk.

The best thing to kick them is if we have 4k+ poiints especially, because they came in, they waited afk for so long and got nothing. That is serving justice, we are wasting our augments, our potions, our scrolls etc trying to get 4k or better win and we are not willing to let any afker get any rewards.

This might discourage them from entering to afk in the first place if they cannot get any rewards.

Of course kicking them early is better but also risky, not to mention many times slots are not full when the timer starts, in this case new afkrs might enter later on and then have the entries closed.

#########

The key thing here is for afkers to realize there are no rewards for them, we need them to stop applying in the first palce, stop taking up spaces, stop wasting our time trying to figure who is afk and who is not. Unless they allow us to make fully premade leagues, the afkes need to be punished one way or another.

Kicking someone because you disagree with, should have a severe punishment, since it is abuse of power.

[Nyali-DN]

8 minutes ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

The best thing to kick them is if we have 4k+ poiints especially, because they came in, they waited afk for so long and got nothing.

Keep in mind that once you leave or get kicked, you get a 10min CD so you got to wait anyway... lol 

[Arhangelos]

20 minutes ago, Nyali-DN said:

Keep in mind that once you leave or get kicked, you get a 10min CD so you got to wait anyway... lol 

That makes it even better, keep them in till we are almost done and then kick them, they wast their time and get a 10 minute cool down too. There is no better way to ruin the afkers.

[Vantheria-DN]

2 hours ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

It seems afkers have a way to automatically click the ready check button.

Most afkers are not actually afk. They can click the ready check button because they are very much at their keyboards. They might be playing around on their phone, but they're still paying attention to the game so they can click ready each time.

Other than that, I agree with your whole post. To me, I don't care if they're kicked when they can't be replaced. It's not about that (to me). It's about preventing them from seeing rewards when they did not contribute any effort to receive those rewards.

[Aly-DN]

18 minutes ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Most afkers are not actually afk. They can click the ready check button because they are very much at their keyboards. They might be playing around on their phone, but they're still paying attention to the game so they can click ready each time.

Other than that, I agree with your whole post. To me, I don't care if they're kicked when they can't be replaced. It's not about that (to me). It's about preventing them from seeing rewards when they did not contribute any effort to receive those rewards.

[Alynndra-DN]

On 3/21/2018 at 10:09 AM, Vantheria-DN said:

Most afkers are not actually afk. They can click the ready check button because they are very much at their keyboards. They might be playing around on their phone, but they're still paying attention to the game so they can click ready each time.

Other than that, I agree with your whole post. To me, I don't care if they're kicked when they can't be replaced. It's not about that (to me). It's about preventing them from seeing rewards when they did not contribute any effort to receive those rewards.

A fair number of the AFKers are probably also spies or deliberate saboteurs with mains in the opposite faction.  They deliberately load their non-main (off-faction) toon into ECs to give their main the greatest advantage of winning, and if they happen to win one because of a lucky draw then that's good too.  While one person doing this wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, I'm starting to be convinced (by the sheer number of elyos AFKers) that there are numerous people doing this, so that in the end its not unusual to have 25% to 50% of your entire faction AFK.

The best solution would've been active GMs that deliberately mark people as consistent AFKers, and those people would be banned from even applying to ECs.  But of course this is NCsoft, that will never happen.  GMs?  Observing in-game behavior?  OMG that's the biggest joke they've ever heard of.   I mean, no way in hell would they ever do that.  That'd take too much work.

Next best solution is for players to be able to mark others who consistently AFK (a.k.a. reputation system) so that if enough people mark you then you would be banned from applying to ECs.  The threshold would be adjusted high enough so that "griefer markers" (people who mark for any other reason other than to genuinely mark who are AFKing) wouldn't be able to ban honest players.  But.... again, this would take work on NC's part so it won't ever happen.

[Aly-DN]

@Alynndra-DN I think you are being just a wee bit paranoid. I doubt there is a "fair bit" of people deliberately sabotaging your runs. I think the vast majority of those alts you see afk are there because either they are played from time to time and free things are nice (the same reason we afk our alts in luna) -or- the player wants to double dip on the manastone rewards, in which case the alt would have to be in the same faction as their main. Do some people spy? Sure. But it isn't the big problem that you think it is and a spy isn't going to turn a win into a loss, since most ECs are blow-outs.

As for marking characters as habitual afkers and taking away their access to EC, I think that idea is a terrible one. If the kick option is open to abuse, any kind of ability to prevent characters from accessing EC would be 1000x worse. You talk about then counter marking those who mark someone for another reason. How about counter counter marking people that counter mark someone who is actually not afk just because you are mad at them for counter marking you for marking someone else for all the wrong reasons? See how this just opens up a can of worms? It's a rabbit hole we don't need to go down.

When Aion went ftp, one of the changes to the game was Support stating that they would no longer punish or accept tickets against a player that afks in dredg, which was the only PvP instance at the time. Why? It wasn't because Aion thinks afking is fine or part of the game design. It's because with less income coming in, the Support staff wouldn't have the time to deal with the influx of tickets that would come from adding free to play players. Something had to give and they chose that. Because of this decision, Aion will never stamp out "the afk problem" in any quick queue instance or siege. It's just part of the game now and something we need to come to terms with if we are going to continue playing Aion.

[Calista-DN]

2 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

@Alynndra-DN I think you are being just a wee bit paranoid. I doubt there is a "fair bit" of people deliberately sabotaging your runs. I think the vast majority of those alts you see afk are there because either they are played from time to time and free things are nice (the same reason we afk our alts in luna) -or- the player wants to double dip on the manastone rewards, in which case the alt would have to be in the same faction as their main. Do some people spy? Sure. But it isn't the big problem that you think it is and a spy isn't going to turn a win into a loss, since most ECs are blow-outs.

As for marking characters as habitual afkers and taking away their access to EC, I think that idea is a terrible one. If the kick option is open to abuse, any kind of ability to prevent characters from accessing EC would be 1000x worse. You talk about then counter marking those who mark someone for another reason. How about counter counter marking people that counter mark someone who is actually not afk just because you are mad at them for counter marking you for marking someone else for all the wrong reasons? See how this just opens up a can of worms? It's a rabbit hole we don't need to go down.

When Aion went ftp, one of the changes to the game was Support stating that they would no longer punish or accept tickets against a player that afks in dredg, which was the only PvP instance at the time. Why? It wasn't because Aion thinks afking is fine or part of the game design. It's because with less income coming in, the Support staff wouldn't have the time to deal with the influx of tickets that would come from adding free to play players. Something had to give and they chose that. Because of this decision, Aion will never stamp out "the afk problem" in any quick queue instance or siege. It's just part of the game now and something we need to come to terms with if we are going to continue playing Aion.

Comparing dredge to EC  is like like the proverbial apples and oranges. You can control your party composition and form a complete pre-made for dredge, the quick-queue option is clearly a "free-for-all", that was support's view when we went free to play.

In EC 96 people, include potentially 24 people who have decided to take the time to actively form a pre-made are being impacted.

So no, being afk is "not just part of the game and something we have to come to terms with" otherwise the kick feature would never have returned. Support likely treats dregde the same as it has fro years (for any afk players), however sieges and EC have their own criteria.

[Aly-DN]

Goodness! I wasn't comparing dredg to EC! I was informing you of the genesis of the acceptance of AFK-ness in Aion.

Geez.

[Ele-DN]

The only worthy comparison would be queuing in premade vs quick queue.

[Alynndra-DN]

@Aly-DN I didn't mean to imply that all (or even most) of the AFKers are spies.  I don't even think most AFKers are spies when the total number of AFKers are totaled.  But I do believe that the number of such toons is more common than thought, and more than an insignificant amount.  People already have spies for other instances (dredgion, ironwall, etc) after all.

I can't understand why someone would play the game.... to end up not playing the game.  AFKing after its a foregone conclusion that your team is going to lose?  That is understandable, and is totally different than AFKing right from the start.  AFKing because you want double the rewards?  Well that isn't a valid reason to me because NC didn't intend for that to happen.  The fact that you are able to dual-box like that is a side-effect of the way things happen in the game, not a statement that such a thing was ever intended to be possible or normal behavior.

You're also making things on a reputation system too complicated.  There's no "counter" marking because you wouldn't know when someone marked you.  Its so easy, to mark someone just right-click on the person while you're in the instance (easy to do when they're AFK) and choose "Mark as AFK".   That's it.  That person wouldn't be informed that you marked her.  And your mark wouldn't have any effect unless tons of other people also mark that person.  Once enough people have marked that person as AFK past some threshold (again, set high enough to make banning by malicious marking difficult), that person is temporarily banned from applying to EC.  Marking a person who you've already marked while in the same instance has no additional effect.  After some time has passed, then the banned player's marks can be reset to zero and the person can apply again.  It won't stop that person from ever getting into EC but the idea is to block people who are habitual AFKers.  Not a perfect system and could be abused, for example, with enough co-conspirators to abuse the marking system.  But no system is perfect except maybe actual GM policing, which won't happen, and I'll take an imperfect system if it reduces the AFKing.

[Arhangelos]

On 21/3/2018 at 4:43 AM, Bryos-DN said:

It is true that kicking or not kicking is the same result though, unless you do it within the first minutes. The recruit time for Evergale Canyon (as in the window in which it allows people to join) is rather short after the instance starts. If you start kicking people too late, your slots will not be replaced, and you will probably end up looking in the eyes of others as a salty leader.

And yes, getting kicked as a result of a disagreement between the person and the kicker, as long as the person was not AFK, is a very solid reason to open a ticket.

Edit:

Yes, random kicking as well. You can report for that as well.

Actually you are wrong on this one, I have entered a quick entry in evergale, only to find myself in the base, the timer was lower than 20 minuts (so at least 10+m passed) and elyos were already inside our base killing anyone that had the bad luck to queue in there, while their points were like 4k while ours were less than 500 or something.

[HellsAngels-KT]

I personally think  the Group leaders should not have the mod to  kick someone  just bc they think there afk, when there not.,   And futher more id Like to point out  the kick from group would be mis-used in some way or another.   few times ive was in evergale,  i step away to use the restroom  maybe 1min or 2   and come back im kicked,  or  my fav, coming back from death and get hit with lag, 20 sec later kicked, I Believe Every Single Player Has went Afk  at one time or another when leveling up in game,,  ( yes I Have done it as well )   I dont always reply to the "BattleReady" bc it is annoying esp when your fighting or running to the spot you need to be at, and if you dont reply worse case i get kicked,,,  ..   I hope to look forward and see improvements..