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Make Sieges Great Again


Arhangelos

Sieges vs Coalitions  

4 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the new system with coalition or the old siege system?

    • I liked the old system more. It gave you all possible options for groups/alliances/leagues formation
      1
    • I would like a system like the old days, but with corections (on rewards, who gets the castle and how etc)
      1
    • I prefer the coalition system where you get no choices and you are rewarded as a whole and not with your personal effort
      0
    • I would like the coalition to remain but make some crucial changes, like give the ability to apply in coalition as an premade alliance, and give rewards based on effort
      2
    • I'd like another system, not listed above
      0


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Ever since coalition came to be there were so drastic changes. For start you can no longer make a group/alliance/league to go there, it automatically does it for everyone and so far all matching algorithms in Aion are really badly implemented or just totally broken.

Fortress ownership:

  • With the old system a legion could be the "owner" of the castle if they had the lead of the league, this created politics and drama but it could be better implemented
  • With the new system ownership doesn't exist


Formation:

  • The old system had the perfect formation system, you could go solo, in a group, in an alliance and in a league. You could go with your friends, make sure everyone is active, make sure there is a cleric/chanter in every group etc.
  • With the new system you have absolutely no control, you might get into a group where everyone is simply afk, if you are low in HP you are left to die. You can't go solo as well.


Rewards:

  • The previous system benefited those who tried hard, the more contribution dmg wise the bigger the rewards. It did create selfishness when transformers would request to be healed but they wanted to be solo so they can get more contribution, while support classes were left used as bots. Afkrs were regarded a cancer because they would lower the group's/alliance's rewards since the dmg contribution would be shared int he group, so they got kicked or simply not invited if they had a bad name. Solo was a big thing for those with good items.
  • The new system is pretty average, you can burn your augments in the front line or you could afk, you get the same rewards. This created the idea that it is your right to bring 100 afk alts since you are not taking anyone's points, which led to many people be in the same group with afkrs that do nothing to help the group.

Attendance:

  • In the old system getting kicked and/or leaving from the siege early didn't mean anything o the rewards, you would still get the rewards based on your contribution or shared contribution to the group/alliance you used to be
  • In the new system leaving from the siege or getting kicked does affect this outcome. Since I hated the system early on I never sat to see the rewarding system, but I think if you are not in the coalition when a fortress is done, you simply don't get rewards (correct me if I am wrong)

Other:

  • In the old system, when you knew you couldn't get a fortress, people would form suicide alliances, in an effort to get a few kills, hoping to get the minimum losing rewards.
  • In the new system you either go as intended, in a coalition or you don't, effectively if the enemies ovepower you, this is the same to the suicide group/alliance of the old system


~~~
I personally loath the new system to the point I don't do sieges since coalition came. I am not interested in the instances in the fortresses nor do I care about the influence ratio anymore. Since it has absolutely no rewarding system for effort to it I find absolutely no reason to attend sieges anymore. This is my personal opinion on it, others might love the fact they can bring 10 alts there to get multiple rewards and trade the spinel medals.

If it ever goes back to the good old days, I will surely go to sieges.

P.S. if I wrote something wrong in the above old vs new system correct me. Write your opinion, don't call names on people with different opinions.

 

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1 hour ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

Fortress ownership:

  • With the old system a legion could be the "owner" of the castle if they had the lead of the league, this created politics and drama but it could be better implemented
  • With the new system ownership doesn't exist

The legion ownership has nothing to do with Coalition, it was a separated change, same as there not being defending sieges anymore. There was a small while where legions were still given fortresses, but it was changed shortly afterwards. But if anything, it is a good thing they got rid of it.

1 hour ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

Rewards:

  • The previous system benefited those who tried hard, the more contribution dmg wise the bigger the rewards. It did create selfishness when transformers would request to be healed but they wanted to be solo so they can get more contribution, while support classes were left used as bots. Afkrs were regarded a cancer because they would lower the group's/alliance's rewards since the dmg contribution would be shared int he group, so they got kicked or simply not invited if they had a bad name. Solo was a big thing for those with good items.
  • The new system is pretty average, you can burn your augments in the front line or you could afk, you get the same rewards. This created the idea that it is your right to bring 100 afk alts since you are not taking anyone's points, which led to many people be in the same group with afkrs that do nothing to help the group.

Effort? Tried hard? HA! Good meme. No, it rewarded going solo, killing a few mobs, and thats it. The main drawback of the old system was how contribution and rewards were decided. Coalition encourages team play, which is what all sieges should be like. The old system rewarded solo players who did one small thing compared to the main alliance that was active throughout the entire siege.

1 hour ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

Attendance:

  • In the old system getting kicked and/or leaving from the siege early didn't mean anything o the rewards, you would still get the rewards based on your contribution or shared contribution to the group/alliance you used to be
  • In the new system leaving from the siege or getting kicked does affect this outcome. Since I hated the system early on I never sat to see the rewarding system, but I think if you are not in the coalition when a fortress is done, you simply don't get rewards (correct me if I am wrong)

Considering how it allows a better (or at least any) control over the AFKs, and that seems to be a burning topic with you, I am surprised you didnt mention it.

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23 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

The legion ownership has nothing to do with Coalition, it was a separated change, same as there not being defending sieges anymore. There was a small while where legions were still given fortresses, but it was changed shortly afterwards. But if anything, it is a good thing they got rid of it.

Legion ownership was not a good thing, I was mentioning what it used to be. I say if legions are going to have an ownership then the legion that does the most dps I guess should get it, not the one who was given the lead of the league even though his legion didn't compete as much as others. But you cannot argue that when legions could own a castle, they sure did care more about going there and contributing.

 

23 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

Effort? Tried hard? HA! Good meme. No, it rewarded going solo, killing a few mobs, and thats it. The main drawback of the old system was how contribution and rewards were decided. Coalition encourages team play, which is what all sieges should be like. The old system rewarded solo players who did one small thing compared to the main alliance that was active throughout the entire siege.

...effort yes, they removed the mob killing in the reward system at some point (which was the only reasonable thing to do) and only pvp could give you contribution. Effort means to be there active, even if it means killing mobs, being afk in a coalition that nobody cares anymore is not effort at all. You had to be active there, being afk meant that you went with your own buddies that didn't mind carrying you.

23 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

Considering how it allows a better (or at least any) control over the AFKs, and that seems to be a burning topic with you, I am surprised you didnt mention it.

The old system was the only thing that allowed for afk control because an afker meant less rewards for everyone with him.  A fully active group/aliance meant bigger rewards, more effort = more contribution = more rewards = afk non-friendly. I think I made a mention on this.

Now the coalition enables the afk system, just go to a siege and see how many afkers are there to get rewards without doing anything. Back in the days of the good old siege system, people would have Aion Rain Meter on, whoever didn't do much or did no contribution at all would get kicked. Look at sieges now, an afk feast for those that open 10 clients at once.

I added 2 more options in the poll, as you can see I personally believe the old system with some refurbishing would be better.

~~~

23 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

Coalition encourages team play

I am not sure whether you really believe this or you just troll. Team play = premades, alliance/group formation for the right classes, keeping a healer in every group etc. Kicking afkers, choosing the right people to be with you, those that you know will be there and do the team play.
Coalition = apply, go afk, get rewards.

The last time I ever went there, I was with some 5-star officers in the same group, they were ALL afk, I was there practically solo, trying to get a fortress so the afkers could get the same rewards  to me. Is that what you call team play? I never went to another siege in my life.

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Oh, I forgot to address the premade stuff. Yes, that sucks and should be changed.

Also, something else I forgot to mention. Siege skills got rid of BS mechanics such as sending Assassins or Rangers to snipe kisks. The one thing I would change is the rank limitations on them.

11 minutes ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

...effort yes, they removed the mob killing in the reward system at some point (which was the only reasonable thing to do) and only pvp could give you contribution. Effort means to be there active, even if it means killing mobs, being afk in a coalition that nobody cares anymore is not effort at all. You had to be active there, being afk meant that you went with your own buddies that didn't mind carrying you.

The old system was the only thing that allowed for afk control because an afker meant less rewards for everyone with him. I think I madea  mention on this.
Now the coalition enables the afk system, just go to a siege and see how many afkers are there to get rewards without doing anything. Back in the days of the good old siege system, people would have Aion Rain Meter on, whoever didn't do much or did no contribution at all would get kicked. Look at sieges now, an afk feast for those that open 10 clients at once.

No, old sieges were completely different. Effort does mean being active through the whole siege, but that did not happen now. As I said, lets make it clear, there were groups who could dps the Dredgion Commander, get full contribution and AFK for the entire siege, and end up with grade A rewards. Is that effort?

And, yes, Coalition allows a filter for AFK. In the old system, you could join a group/alliance, do what you need and AFK. If you did AFK and got kicked, it wouldn't have mattered, because you would still get rewards. In Coalition, you can do ready checks and kick those you find AFK, and ot will matter, unlike the previous system. You can do it. If people dont do it, then it is their problem. Its a community problem nothing to do with the system.

You seem to be the one trolling for thinking I was trolling for making more valid points.

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7 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

Oh, I forgot to address the premade stuff. Yes, that sucks and should be changed.

Also, something else I forgot to mention. Siege skills got rid of BS mechanics such as sending Assassins or Rangers to snipe kisks. The one thing I would change is the rank limitations on them.

No, old sieges were completely different. Effort does mean being active through the whole siege, but that did not happen now. As I said, lets make it clear, there were groups who could dps the Dredgion Commander, get full contribution and AFK for the entire siege, and end up with grade A rewards. Is that effort?

And, yes, Coalition allows a filter for AFK. In the old system, you could join a group/alliance, do what you need and AFK. If you did AFK and got kicked, it wouldn't have mattered, because you would still get rewards. In Coalition, you can do ready checks and kick those you find AFK, and ot will matter, unlike the previous system. You can do it. If people dont do it, then it is their problem. Its a community problem nothing to do with the system.

You seem to be the one trolling for thinking I was trolling for making more valid points.

Coalition is the EXACT opposite to team play, because NOW people afk more than ever. Nobody kicks afkers, the coalition failed.

If you got into a premade in the previous sieges model and you afked, you were black listed, never again to be invited. That was what building a trusted community meant. You cared to be active, you cared not to be black listed. Team play, social play, do your thing for the whole function.
If you get kicked now, you simply re-apply to the coalition and return. you don't even need an invitation, you invite yourself.

...have you ever been in a coalition siege? It looks like we play two different games here! Coalition brought the afk to extreme levels. Team play was shot dead the moment coalition was implemented. I cannot even go with my friends to a siege because we will be scattered around in alliances that might not even have a lead and care about kicking afkers.

~~~

If your issue is that the Commander gave way too much contribution, be it. The kisk problem isn't solved. A a matter of fact you need kisks even more now because nobody will heal or rez you, when you are with total strangers that are not keeping up with the group or even worse are simply afk.

Coalition downgraded sieges in every possible way

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Again then. THE TOOLS ARE THERE. If the community does not want to use them, then it is the community's fault. I guess the community does not mind the AFK.

And, no, the Dredgion Commander was just an example. If you wish, replace it with an "x", where it is any feature in a siege that gives contribution/AP.

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The coalition is fine BUT, getting kicked needs severe penalties and, rewards need to be based on contribution. Ie get kicked for AFK, no coalition join for at least one hour, if not longer and, no reward period. No effort to help coalition, no reward, kicked or not. few hits/ few enemies targets coin only. A few kills, just one item, a ring or pot bundle or something, decent hits/kills, good effort, good reward.

 

Reward for AFK is what kills it, main thing is effort based or, at the least, must be targeting and using skills throughout to get in on the reward.

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21 hours ago, Kadeth-KT said:

The coalition is fine BUT, getting kicked needs severe penalties and, rewards need to be based on contribution. Ie get kicked for AFK, no coalition join for at least one hour, if not longer and, no reward period. No effort to help coalition, no reward, kicked or not. few hits/ few enemies targets coin only. A few kills, just one item, a ring or pot bundle or something, decent hits/kills, good effort, good reward.

 

Reward for AFK is what kills it, main thing is effort based or, at the least, must be targeting and using skills throughout to get in on the reward.

Thank you, I also believe people should be able to form their groups or alliances and then join the coalition like that because this way you ensure you won't get kicked by idiots who just want to screw you and then you have to open tickets hoping to fix it.

@Bryos-DN The coalition is like communism, all unicorns and equality until it is implemented on humans who are so different to each other. One works and another one doesn't, they both get the same in return, pushing those that work to become  unwilling to keep trying. In the end the place gets lethargic and people complain that communism wasn't implemented correctly, again.

The reasont hey placed the coalition was because the system was so open that peopel got selfish, with the coalition they brought the worse of all, they turned everyone even more selfish at the cost of others' work.

I'd rather have a whole siege with soloers, selfishly doing their solo thing for their personal rewards, than have a forced coalition with some people trying to contribute while others keep afk, enjoying the hard labor of others.

...since when is it a good thing for people to enjoy rewards for job they didn't do while others did it?

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Exactly. if I have 10 acres of garden and, I hire area youth to weed it for me, I get a lot mor weeds pulled, al ot faster id I pay them for every bucket they fill with weeds rather than by the hour or even a set amount for the day. Reward for effort and, in proportion to effort. Works flawlessly on humans every time.

 

I wouldn't put in any effort either if I got paid just for showing up. Well that would get me fired and no pay. I have to give it a reasonable effort to get paid. Again rewards for effort.

 

Even training a dog works the same way, it won't do tricks for log for nothing - the dog wants rewards for effort. 

Okay everyone can't be good at it but, everyone can try, even if you die trying, at least you tried, you made an effort, so you get a reward. Learn, get better, be able to put in more effort, get more reward for it. Simple and effective.

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