2s3004E2-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Delessa-DN said: I find the phenomenon of players with nothing to gain "white knighting" for NC's absurd predatory tactics to be puzzling in every sense of the word. It's as if they're OK with people (including themselves) be ripped off, be extorted and the like. I'm seriously starting to think they're NCSoft employees lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delessa-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 My only explanation is that these players have somehow won the RNG lottery and seek to deny an even field to anyone else who hasn't. Even if it means maliciously advocating others should waste a lot of real life money (that they will have no part in obtaining) in the hopes that the cost will drive people away from ever trying so they maintain their edge. That's the only thing that makes sense if they aren't NC employees. I see this in other games a lot, especially in competitive mobile games - "bleed the other player white" in terms of making them blow thousands of dollars till they quit so there's no competition. It's not a long shot to assume this is the rationale for defending absurd practices. Intuitively this makes sense, all these players' arguments revolve around "alts", "events", "you can farm it", etc. Not one word about feasibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirayuki-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Wow the both of you amaze me. Last I check I haven't paid a single cent to ncsoft. And secondly, have the both of you woken up? You think ncsoft is ever gonna drop their profits for a couple of players? You think the NA aion playerbase is in a state where ncsoft needs to care? The both of you could be paying players for all I care but clearly your not paying enough for ncsoft to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delessa-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Shirayuki-DN said: Wow the both of you amaze me. Last I check I haven't paid a single cent to ncsoft. And secondly, have the both of you woken up? You think ncsoft is ever gonna drop their profits for a couple of players? You think the NA aion playerbase is in a state where ncsoft needs to care? The both of you could be paying players for all I care but clearly your not paying enough for ncsoft to care. Then you've missed the point of our dissent entirely. We're not changing NC's mind, we're changing the minds of the players. Myself in particular have called that players take political action against predatory casino like practices by gaming companies by writing to either your rep or senator or both (if you live in the USA). If you live outside the USA, write to whichever government member represents you and make this known. EA's lootboxes recently came under government scrutiny but gamers - not companies - gamers - came out to defend EA saying there was nothing wrong. Crazy stuff isn't it? Look at up Chris Lee of Hawaii and how he's trying to bring regulation and accountability to said gaming companies, you might learn something. I see your defending the actions of NC as illogical and absurd to be frank. If you indeed gain nothing you should be as outraged as either of us from this nonsense. Locking formerly easy to access game play features behind a gambling pay wall. Selling the defaults to you, inserting luna payments screens everywhere. All of this should annoy anyone and prompt action, not defense of those very practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirayuki-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said: Then you've missed the point of our dissent entirely. We're not changing NC's mind, we're changing the minds of the players. Myself in particular have called that players take political action against predatory casino like practices by gaming companies by writing to either your rep or senator or both (if you live in the USA). If you live outside the USA, write to whichever government member represents you and make this known. EA's lootboxes recently came under government scrutiny but gamers - not companies - gamers - came out to defend EA saying there was nothing wrong. Crazy stuff isn't it? Look at up Chris Lee of Hawaii and how he's trying to bring regulation and accountability to said gaming companies, you might learn something. Hey hey, now please don't leave reality behind ok? What's aion NA's population? What's these EA gamers population? Come up with a more feasible idea would you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delessa-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Shirayuki-DN said: Hey hey, now please don't leave reality behind ok? What's aion NA's population? What's these EA gamers population? Do you understand that it has nothing to do with population and everything to do with the industry as a whole? Free to play games are casinos. Unregulated casinos where no money changes hands but insane amounts of money is spent on what is effectively gambling. The entire free to play model requires regulation the like that you would see in a casino to bring things to heel. NC is one offender, EA is another, by bringing NC's offenses to light you make people see that this is an industry wide problem. It's not just EA. EA right now is a bogeyman that's "taking one for the team", yet even Blizzard is guilty, all you have to do is look at Heroes of the Storm. HoS could have been worse; allegedly there was a story that Blizzard turned down a consultant's advice to make it even more casino like that would make some 10x the money by preying on whale behavior. Why? Apparently rumor had it that Blizzard did not believe it was worth losing all the non whale players. If true, this shows that a company can make money and still have ethics (even if they're going down pretty fast as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirayuki-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said: Do you understand that it has nothing to do with population and everything to do with the industry as a whole. Free to play games are casinos. Unregulated casinos where no money changes hands but insane amounts of money is spent on what is effectively gambling. The entire free to play model requires regulation the like that you would see in a casino to bring things to heel. NC is one offender, EA is another, by bringing NC's offenses to light you make people see that this is an industry wide problem. It's not just EA. Ok, if you want to fight an industry politically go ahead lmfao, go write that letter to your senator. People like me have better things to do than game all day and whine about the state of the game. Let me try to drive this into that numbskull of yours, gambling is simply a problem with a person's own self control. Did you need to gamble on those xform scrolls in the bcm? No? Did you need to gamble on the lockboxes? No? Did you need to buy stigma enchants or enchant stones off bcm and gamble on enchanting? No? Do you need to be better than so or so in this game and therefore you had to gamble? No? Grow up. No one told you to gamble the moment you step into the casino. And if you really have to be better than so or so in game, then go play a sub based game or some shit where its not like a free to play game aka unregulated casino as you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aly-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said: I find the phenomenon of players with nothing to gain "white knighting" for NC's absurd predatory tactics to be puzzling in every sense of the word. It's as if they're OK with people (including themselves) be ripped off, be extorted and the like. Maybe they (we?) just think and see things differently than you. Heaven forbid. Apparently not thinking just like you makes other people not only wrong.. but stupid and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaerd-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Delessa-DN said: I find the phenomenon of players with nothing to gain "white knighting" for NC's absurd predatory tactics to be puzzling in every sense of the word. It's as if they're OK with people (including themselves) be ripped off, be extorted and the like. Maybe I learned a different kind of reading style but I don't see anyone being called evil, stupid, or wrong here. Delessa simply says they find it puzzling, a far cry from what got read into their statement. I'm still waiting on someone to actually defend how absurdly difficult NC made it to get these contracts. From a business standpoint? It's brilliant. It even bears all the hallmarks of the mobile gaming industry's predatory practices, which have made those dev's incredible amounts of profit. Devil's post about the stats is spot on. The transform system allows for a flexibility in stat combinations that is really neat! Cast speed and attack speed together from consumables is a really neat combo. But as someone mentioned before, NC doesn't need a healthy game or player base. They just need to make money. And if they can hook just a small percentage of people into spending hundreds or thousands each, mission accomplished. I have to agree with Delessa. I also find it puzzling that anyone would be ok with NC ripping their player base off like this. My mind would be changed if they offered to take people to instances to help them gear if they didn't have any decent transforms, but I have a feeling they would be the first ones requiring transforms for a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmond-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I find extremely "funny" (stupid and worrying actually..) that, 1. The game economy is a total mess with NO money income 2. The game content have been destroyed, cut to like 1% in every aspect and the only thing you are complaining about is that "the transformations don't let you see your character sprite". The transformations are NOT part of your default characters. Nobody is forcing you to do shit, your characters DON'T HAVE a permanent 40% speed, 20% attack speed, etc boost by default, that is a BONUS, again a -totally optional- BONUS, this version is giving. Running scrolls, Casting Speed scrolls, transformations, etc., are free boosts given to ease your gameplay, not part of your default classes. Seriously, i don't know what are you guys doing playing a MMORPG, go play fortnite or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirayuki-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, Edmond-KT said: The transformations are NOT part of your default characters. Nobody is forcing you to do shit, your characters DON'T HAVE a permanent 40% speed, 20% attack speed, etc boost by default, that is a BONUS, again a -totally optional- BONUS, this version is giving. Running scrolls, Casting Speed scrolls, transformations, etc., are free boosts given to ease your gameplay, not part of your default classes. I sense sarcasm in there but maybe i'm wrong. If i'm right however, would you like me to knock some sense of reality into you too? Or would you like to kindly refer to page 3 of this post of why ncsoft should not freely hand out choosable ancient xform contracts and why this current event is actually a pretty good band aid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmond-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Shirayuki-DN said: I sense sarcasm in there but maybe i'm wrong. If i'm right however, would you like me to knock some sense of reality into you too? Or would you like to kindly refer to page 3 of this post of why ncsoft should not freely hand out choosable ancient xform contracts and why this current event is actually a pretty good band aid? I'm not being sarcastic. NCSoft doesn't "have to" give any boost/bonus buff/pump other than the ones in your class character skills. The problem is that you have been abusing so much of transformations that now you believe having them is some kind of "divine right" and you think they are somehow "forcing" you to use them. Transformation is an optional bonus to your char stats, period. It doesn't 'have to behave as you want it to behave', if you like it, use it, if you don't like it, don't use it, not using it doesn't lower your character stats, it leaves them exactly as they normally are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valedia-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 tranformation is the best worse thing ever introduced in the game but the only way to salvage this mistake is to make the cooldown 10mins which is enough time to enjoy and run without having to use scrolls every 2mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirayuki-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Valedia-DN said: tranformation is the best worse thing ever introduced in the game but the only way to salvage this mistake is to make the cooldown 10mins which is enough time to enjoy and run without having to use scrolls every 2mins. Pretty sure the change in duration in the NA version is for balancing issues. Ncsoft wants to make it painful kinah wise if said person is spamming kaisinel xform. You can buff xform with a pet/minion anyway so its not like you have to manually do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapis-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Edmond-KT said: I find extremely "funny" (stupid and worrying actually..) that, 1. The game economy is a total mess with NO money income 2. The game content have been destroyed, cut to like 1% in every aspect and the only thing you are complaining about is that "the transformations don't let you see your character sprite". The transformations are NOT part of your default characters. Nobody is forcing you to do shit, your characters DON'T HAVE a permanent 40% speed, 20% attack speed, etc boost by default, that is a BONUS, again a -totally optional- BONUS, this version is giving. Running scrolls, Casting Speed scrolls, transformations, etc., are free boosts given to ease your gameplay, not part of your default classes. Seriously, i don't know what are you guys doing playing a MMORPG, go play fortnite or something like that. 1. Nobody is taking your words as something relevant. You should just stop. Calling an all status boosting item something optional when you don't have scrolls to use anymore is ridiculous and nonsense, just shut up, u're not helping LOL 2. You can complain about game economy, content shrink and transformation mechanics ALL AT THE SAME TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valedia-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 <Kromede Transformation Potion>ncsoft needless to say you guys had a great idea but missed it by 6 or 7 mins which y'all need to add to the 3 or 4mins we currently have on the scrolls and leave the cd at 10mins and the entire patch will be fixed and as for the broker fee i say leave it as is thus controlling the prices and this is something ive pushed for quite sometime now so ty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valedia-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 lapis shut up because all the scrolls we had b4 was something none of us complained about so as as i said all they have to do is make them 10min cd and problems solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kailor-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Look, if transformations were not required, and they are - you get kicked form instances if you don't use them and, if you were not forced to alter your appearance to avoid being gimped and, kicked for being gimped, then fin but as it, it IS forced on us unless we want to stand around and do NOTHING! We can't even trade to alts to level to characters, you get so far and, you're stuck - no kinah to even get to the next zone adn, the only way there is to teleport, but you can't because no kinah because you had to spend it all on transformation which are cartoonish stupidity anyway bur, you're forced to use them or get kicked. All we want is a way to get the same stats WITHOUT altering our appearance or having to pay extra - we don't want to pay for the DEFAULT look, we'll happily pay to change the default with skins, dyes etc.,. but we don't want to pay to see the default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valedia-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 you tell them kailor. its always something for something rather than just add and not take away anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valedia-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 gonna go download ragnarock part 1 and maybe bns cuz i have all the other top games but aion is number 1 but damn ncsoft yall drop the ball on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aly-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 It really seem to be a case of "I want my cake and I want to eat it, too". We really need to look at the facts that we cannot change and then decide what we want to do. We can't demand that the unchangeable facts change just for us. The Korean Devs took out scrolls and put in the transform system. This is the way they want their game to play. Definitely for cash purposes, but also for their own vision of the way the game should be played. We know that this does not change in the next patch (6.5), because that patch has been released in Korea already. That's what we have to go on at this point. That's fact. No amount of complaining is going to change that. So this is what we have to work with if we decide this is the game we want to continue to play. The Korean Devs also placed in the game to -not- see the look of the transform, so they did recognize that not everyone would instantly fall in love with being a fuzzy rodent or a male balaur. That's good. We can now.. Chose not to use the transform system because we don't like the look of it, but if we do we have to realize that not every group is going to be alright with that. If this is the option we chose, we will need to find others that play just like us and make our own, un-transformed group or quick entry everything. Chose to use the transform system, but only with transparent scrolls. In this case we have to always pick the bundle of transparent scrolls from our 7x weekly/daily luna and save our luna materials to craft the transparent scrolls whenever they come up on our craft list. We also can buy these off the broker, which means we need to spend time in game farming enough kinah to do so. Lastly, we can use real money to buy the transparent scrolls from the BCM. Chose to use the transform system and use it by any means we can.. transparent or not. This is the easiest of the cases because the non-transparent scrolls are more readily available and cheaper. Most of the player base will pick this one. No one is suggesting that we can't lobby NCWest for some easing of the system, since they 100% cannot change it. (That decision is made in Korea.) NCWest can make both types of scroll more readily available in game -and- make them cheaper. I think we have made the case for this many times over. @Cyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Aly-DN said: Maybe they (we?) just think and see things differently than you. Heaven forbid. Apparently not thinking just like you makes other people not only wrong.. but stupid and evil. Well yeah, that rose colored tint does wonders for "POV" doesnt it? Also, stop pretending you yourself are a special snowflake kid. White knights have existed since game forums first became a thing and they always will. You're simply continuing the shameful tradition. Shills like you are why we gamers cant have nice things. F'n apologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aly-DN Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Morrigan-KT said: Well yeah, that rose colored tint does wonders for "POV" doesnt it? Also, stop pretending you yourself are a special snowflake kid. White knights have existed since game forums first became a thing and they always will. You're simply continuing the shameful tradition. Shills like you are why we gamers cant have nice things. F'n apologist. Thank you for making my point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, Aly-DN said: Thank you for making my point for me. What point? That you're an insufferable shill? I believe thats already been proven without doubt at this juncture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirena-KT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I already wrote it in another thread of mine but: - Why would they remove NPC who sell ..... dyes? Like those basic ones? I was going to try coloring my armor but I couldn't find anything. This is retarded. - NPC who sells additional emotion skills, ninja/hovering motions also got removed...? Or am I mistaking something?. Anyways if it's true this is another baseless rip off that came with 6.2 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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