NC. Danaria Elyos need your help.

[Shirayuki-DN]

1 hour ago, Delessa-DN said:

Why would anyone want to siege if they're worthless in it and only exist to die and feed AP?

I can't say I blame the average player for ignoring sieges, there's nothing in it for them; they have no gear, nothing that will give them a chance or rewards, why bother?

1) We gain so much AP now that losing AP doesn't really matter? Of course some people might disagree as i'm sure.

2) Current sieges have rewards that reward up to 1000 players on the losing side and 700 players on the winning side. We do not even approach these numbers on NA so we technically have free hand outs.

[Bryos-DN]

13 hours ago, Arxaggelos-KT said:

In EC in 5.8 after a gazillion of complaints they implemented the kick ability, it might have been abused a few times but in general it gave everyone what they deserved.

Abused a few times? Really? Enabling the option to kick was an awful idea. People barely ever used it to filter the AFKs, they abused the hell out of it by asking "Can I get a kick?" to avoid getting the cooldown because they wanted to leave early. That is truly abusing of it, and it was present in every single run. At least now that there is only one entry per day this doesnt happen anymore.

Or shall we mention leaders who would queue up on the opposing faction's side, be paired against that league and kick whole alliances to not sabotage them (realistically, they wouldnt have won anyway), but to also to simply troll because they would end up with the whole cooldown? That happened a lot more than "a few times".

1 hour ago, Delessa-DN said:

Why would anyone want to siege if they're worthless in it and only exist to die and feed AP?

I can't say I blame the average player for ignoring sieges, there's nothing in it for them; they have no gear, nothing that will give them a chance or rewards, why bother?

As a PvE player that only assists sieges just cause, with no PvP gear at all, without joining alliances/leagues/groups, I still manage to get contribution. And this includes the rewards that come with it. If someone does care about siege, can make it to them despite the time they happen, and they care about PvP (and actually have some PvP gear) and still dont manage to get rewards, that is just doing stuff wrong or complete laziness.

[Falcy-DN]

I'm gonna interject a little bit here about the numbers situation on Danaria.

During the Saturday Lakrum siege(11/3), I ended up counting 650+ Elyos vs 600+ Asmos. These numbers are worthless because there's no way to filter who was participating and who was not. It's just a number at the end of the day.

Now, during Divine Siege(11/4), I was able to count 309+ Elyos vs 454+ Asmos. That siege only tells me that this specific siege we were outnumbered 1:1.5 
Unfortunately, I gotta wait until this upcoming Divine Siege to see if those numbers continue to ring true. If it's roughly the same 5 minutes into the siege this week than last week, then sure, I'll admit that it's a numbers situation, but it's more likely to be a turnout problem followed by a gear gap(To an extent, no way I'm gonna try to figure that out)\

Anyway, I just wanted to say those numbers cause no one posted them here when I posted them in LFG after the fact. 

[Delessa-DN]

5 hours ago, Shirayuki-DN said:

1) We gain so much AP now that losing AP doesn't really matter? Of course some people might disagree as i'm sure.

2) Current sieges have rewards that reward up to 1000 players on the losing side and 700 players on the winning side. We do not even approach these numbers on NA so we technically have free hand outs.

1) It's not about the AP, it's about dying and wasting time. AFK dredgion gives similar AP without the nonstop dying factor. People don't like being killed.

2) More effort than an AFK dredgion for similar rewards.

 

Besides, you can't use AP for anything. Most players are stuck on the fragments (assuming they can even +15) as the cost to craft as absurdly high. Assuming 1m per fragment and 500k per scroll, you're looking at 2 million per fragment. With 100 needed for a weapon it's 200m for an evolution. Never mind the +15 requirement. End result, nothing worthwhile for most players, compensated players are the only ones who actually bother with sieges.

People don't do things without incentive, what's the incentive? To get AP - that is pretty much useless, get some fragments - that most can't even use, or get a possible 1-2 legendary stones - that will probably fail? All that for an hour of work? Fun? There's no fun when you do no damage and aren't actually contributing.

 

This is not a problem unique to Elyos, if it's a problem at all. This is simply players deciding its not worth their time. There are actually many on the Asmodian side who simply stand around during siege as they also see no point in participating.

[Shirayuki-DN]

1 hour ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) It's not about the AP, it's about dying and wasting time. AFK dredgion gives similar AP without the nonstop dying factor. People don't like being killed.

2) More effort than an AFK dredgion for similar rewards.

 

Besides, you can't use AP for anything. Most players are stuck on the fragments (assuming they can even +15) as the cost to craft as absurdly high. Assuming 1m per fragment and 500k per scroll, you're looking at 2 million per fragment. With 100 needed for a weapon it's 200m for an evolution. Never mind the +15 requirement. End result, nothing worthwhile for most players, compensated players are the only ones who actually bother with sieges.

People don't do things without incentive, what's the incentive? To get AP - that is pretty much useless, get some fragments - that most can't even use, or get a possible 1-2 legendary stones - that will probably fail? All that for an hour of work? Fun? There's no fun when you do no damage and aren't actually contributing.

 

This is not a problem unique to Elyos, if it's a problem at all. This is simply players deciding its not worth their time. There are actually many on the Asmodian side who simply stand around during siege as they also see no point in participating.

Understood, if you veterans/returning players who played pre 5.0 and left for whatever reason and came back and decided that you wish to deny yourself from progressing then no one can help you.

As much as I just want to stop typing at the previous sentence above, I decided I am going to just address a few of your issues in your post.

To point number 1, if people really don't like being killed, these guys can simply just get like a kill in the contribution zone to get AP, and just get back to whatever they are doing instead of wasting time because as i've said in my previous post, "Current sieges have rewards that reward up to 1000 players on the losing side and 700 players on the winning side. We do not even approach these numbers on NA so we technically have free hand outs." meaning a little bit of AP is all it takes to be rewarded. We have moved back to the old forming own alliance/league system instead of the coalition system so this is now possible again. Not that i'm asking people not to help their faction take the fort but honestly if you are really so opposed to dying then here I am giving you a solution.

To point number 2, yes I agree more effort than AFK dredge but do note that they do not give similar rewards. Sieges give ultimate ridium whereas dredges give legendary ridium. Also, as i've highlighted in another thread, the conqueror's gemstone crafting material that you receive from sieges can be sold on broker to crafters for kinah too. Also do note that to obtain any other reward besides AP from dredge, you cannot simply AFK if you didn't already know. You need to kill the bosses in dredge and actually loot them to get said rewards besides AP which as you have mentioned later is not used for anything.

AP is only mainly used for purification yes.

As for the fighting spirit fragments, you can grind craft mats yourself open world. No one and let me repeat this, no one is actually making you buy mats off broker. Yes buying mats off broker will hasten the process but there are alternatives, and this alternative aka open world grinding is not a casino quoting your own words in many of your posts. I might have compensated gear but no I do not agree compensated players are the only one bothering with sieges. I unlike some others only have compensated gear but not a single omega or tempering to exchange to legendary pvp stones and with legendary stones so scarce this patch I have to siege on top of doing pvp instances to attempt to get them. You want to know what is the result of that hard work? or as you call it casino gambling since the next thing i'm getting to is enchanting? Yes, I got myself 1 piece of legendary genesis crystal gear already. Call it unregulated casino gambling/rng all you want but with hard work I got there.

O and to add on, the PvP gearing situation will not change in 6.5, there is no new PvP gear in 6.5 just new PvE, this was meant to be a marathon not a sprint.

Again, if you wish to keep telling yourself there is no incentive, that it will fail, that you don't do damage hence you won't bother (that's where your alliance comes in play), I can't help you and no one can.

[Ele-DN]

3 hours ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) It's not about the AP, it's about dying and wasting time. AFK dredgion gives similar AP without the nonstop dying factor. People don't like being killed.

2) More effort than an AFK dredgion for similar rewards.

 

Besides, you can't use AP for anything. Most players are stuck on the fragments (assuming they can even +15) as the cost to craft as absurdly high. Assuming 1m per fragment and 500k per scroll, you're looking at 2 million per fragment. With 100 needed for a weapon it's 200m for an evolution. Never mind the +15 requirement. End result, nothing worthwhile for most players, compensated players are the only ones who actually bother with sieges.

People don't do things without incentive, what's the incentive? To get AP - that is pretty much useless, get some fragments - that most can't even use, or get a possible 1-2 legendary stones - that will probably fail? All that for an hour of work? Fun? There's no fun when you do no damage and aren't actually contributing.

 

This is not a problem unique to Elyos, if it's a problem at all. This is simply players deciding its not worth their time. There are actually many on the Asmodian side who simply stand around during siege as they also see no point in participating.

Yep. With the outcome of sieges on DN elyos, this new siege mechanic might be worth while. Before, with the coalition, you'd have to stay till for is captured or the full 55 mins, but now you could really go for 5 mins, get your ap/kill and leave. Assuming theres less than 1k at the siege, you'll get something.

[Aly-DN]

6 hours ago, Falcy-DN said:

I'm gonna interject a little bit here about the numbers situation on Danaria.

During the Saturday Lakrum siege(11/3), I ended up counting 650+ Elyos vs 600+ Asmos. These numbers are worthless because there's no way to filter who was participating and who was not. It's just a number at the end of the day.

Now, during Divine Siege(11/4), I was able to count 309+ Elyos vs 454+ Asmos. That siege only tells me that this specific siege we were outnumbered 1:1.5 
Unfortunately, I gotta wait until this upcoming Divine Siege to see if those numbers continue to ring true. If it's roughly the same 5 minutes into the siege this week than last week, then sure, I'll admit that it's a numbers situation, but it's more likely to be a turnout problem followed by a gear gap(To an extent, no way I'm gonna try to figure that out)\

Anyway, I just wanted to say those numbers cause no one posted them here when I posted them in LFG after the fact. 

Your first numbers are not useless, Falcy. They may not say who was actually participating (on either side), but it does show who -could- be participating. If people were motivated on both sides to siege, the numbers would be pretty even and that's an important number. We complain a lot about faction imbalance when what really is a problem is a motivation problem and that isn't something that we, as players, or NCSoft fix. Closing character creation or giving incentives or any other idea that has been suggested or tried isn't going to motivate those like Delessa who see no benefit to themselves and don't care about the faction as a whole.

I had a friend back at launch who said, "The worst thing about Aion is that you have to depend on other people to play their game in a certain manner to progress in the game." If the other people in your faction just don't feel like helping you or your faction, you are stuck. It's frustrating as all get-out, but not a new problem.

[Mirelium-KT]

13 hours ago, Delessa-DN said:

Why would anyone want to siege if they're worthless in it and only exist to die and feed AP?

I can't say I blame the average player for ignoring sieges, there's nothing in it for them; they have no gear, nothing that will give them a chance or rewards, why bother?

Omg.. this is the real problem! Ap feeding? really? Ap does nothing in this game anymore. you don't need to kill in pvp to get tons of AP. And why is everyone afraid to die? i don't get it. It's not real life! you don't really die, you just res up at the kisk. For real? that's what's wrong here. It's the attitude, not the numbers. If anyone has this issues when going siege, then that's the reason you don't win. Go in there. If you are a plate stay in front make the push, get lost in the sea of red, that's why the game has plates as a class. If you are a cleric spam those heals stop trying to be a sorc. And for the love of Aion stop afk'ing in sieges. This is the real CANCER of sieges!
 

If everyone would understand that every class needs to do what they were meant to be doing, and stop thinking about useless things as AP feed and death, they wouldn't struggle so much.

We are not in 3.x, 4.x, 5.x. Feeding is not a thing anymore. 
 

I really don't understand. I don't care what i'm wearing i go there and try my best. I went to sieges in worst gear possible. In the ends even the pure force of the numbers matter. Matters first to the moral of the opposite faction. they don't know what you are wearing. 

So in the end guys don't be afraid to die. Just go there to your best, improve yourself, practice and just have fun. Death can be fun too if you are with friends <3 Spread the word in you faction and things will turn.

Lot's of Love

[Arlyce-DN]

its thursday night and Lakrum siege just got over. if your eyes were open then there is nothing i need to say ... beyond obvious.

i would like to add that just because i see a huge imbalance, that doesn't mean that i think elyos need incentives or buffs. last thing i want is a handicap.

[Jigen-DN]

On 11/7/2018 at 10:38 PM, Lutien-KT said:

Actually, this is true.
I decided to make an experiment. I leveled one asmodian and one elyos to 80 and proceeded to play on Lakrum. Every time I ran into a fight and needed/shouted for help. One or two asmodians came to help while in the elyos side, there were 4-5 times I was fighting against 2 asmodians and 2-3 elyos would simply avoid the fight because they're were too busy with their stuff. This behavior is what makes one faction strong and the other weak. Asmodians always had this teamwork spirit. IDK why, but since the beginning, asmos were more united.

its just happened that we DN Asmo have this OP dude named Noto that always looking for ely he could kill, its not that they wanted to help an asmo but they just want PvP  there are others too who enjoyed PvP more than anyone else.

[Aly-DN]

8 hours ago, Arlyce-DN said:

its thursday night and Lakrum siege just got over. if your eyes were open then there is nothing i need to say ... beyond obvious.

i would like to add that just because i see a huge imbalance, that doesn't mean that i think elyos need incentives or buffs. last thing i want is a handicap.

What's obvious? Do you have numbers? Because from where I sat (on top of the wall) there were times when my mini-map was full to bursting of red dots and when we would jump down and have a sea of red ahead of us -and- a sea of red behind us. But I am not going to use that as proof that you outnumbered us and neither should you. Your mini-map proves nothing just as mine doesn't. Only actual numbers will do.

Not to mention that you all broke the gate and got in and on the boss. I think the siege buff is working now. Your HP was really high and your dps high enougn to get that gate down while we fought the dredg. Couple more losses and that buff will be overwhelming.. long before it gets to 9.

Sounds like things are looking up for DN E.

[Ele-DN]

7 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

What's obvious? Do you have numbers? Because from where I sat (on top of the wall) there were times when my mini-map was full to bursting of red dots and when we would jump down and have a sea of red ahead of us -and- a sea of red behind us. But I am not going to use that as proof that you outnumbered us and neither should you. Your mini-map proves nothing just as mine doesn't. Only actual numbers will do.

Not to mention that you all broke the gate and got in and on the boss. I think the siege buff is working now. Your HP was really high and your dps high enougn to get that gate down while we fought the dredg. Couple more losses and that buff will be overwhelming.. long before it gets to 9.

Sounds like things are looking up for DN E.

Balance is determined by siege outcome? 

[Aly-DN]

It's one indicator, considering there is an instance held away from your faction unless you have that fort.

How exactly do you determine balance then, @Ele-DN?

[Rapier-DN]

what will be funny is to see (1) how much fighting over fort ownership starts when (and if) the Elyos ever get the fort- because sadly I'm sure that will start very soon after and (2) will the asmos still show up if they start losing? or will they suddenly disappear? I hope not

[Capa-KT]

4 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

there is an instance held away from your faction unless you have that fort.

False, there is a gate that spawns in Guardian/Archon Outpost for the faction that hasn't conquered the fort. We've had it since day 2 in Archon Outpost on KT-A and it's been working fine so far. Getting the fort only gets you double (I think?) the mats, more GP and thus the possibility to keep your xforms for the winning faction.

[Rapier-DN]

57 minutes ago, Capa-KT said:

False, there is a gate that spawns in Guardian/Archon Outpost for the faction that hasn't conquered the fort. We've had it since day 2 in Archon Outpost on KT-A and it's been working fine so far. Getting the fort only gets you double (I think?) the mats, more GP and thus the possibility to keep your xforms for the winning faction.

Well, that's a damn nice "only", especially over several weeks.

[Aly-DN]

1 hour ago, Capa-KT said:

False, there is a gate that spawns in Guardian/Archon Outpost for the faction that hasn't conquered the fort. We've had it since day 2 in Archon Outpost on KT-A and it's been working fine so far. Getting the fort only gets you double (I think?) the mats, more GP and thus the possibility to keep your xforms for the winning faction.

Good to know. I was hearing tears about content being held behind the wall of getting the fort. Good to know that that isn't true.

So is your point then that not having the fort is not something that determines imbalance? (Which was sort of the question being asked at the time.)

[Rapier-DN]

1 hour ago, Aly-DN said:

Good to know. I was hearing tears about content being held behind the wall of getting the fort. Good to know that that isn't true.

So is your point then that not having the fort is not something that determines imbalance? (Which was sort of the question being asked at the time.)

Only if your  reading comprehension sucks.

No, it does not wall off content.

Yes it does contribute to imbalance if it is always held by one faction and does not flip within a reasonable time.

[Capa-KT]

2 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

LMAO @ "ONLY" that. SeriouslY/ over how many weeks , imagine how much of an advantage that adds up to?

First off, I meant that getting the fort doesn't get you exclusive access to iDD, the opposite faction gets access too, as long as the fortress isn't balaur.

But since you brought it up, let's be real two seconds and realise that the whole siege rewards is a tad overhyped. Yes, long-term, it's important, but it's been a bit over two weeks, not months, not even as long as it took for UA siege buffs to get to the levels where the pve heroes would come out to siege. What's more, I don't know if you've tried to make your cloud war legendaries +15 yet, but a quick glance at the enchanting rates (if we even have the same rates as K-Aion in the first place) will tell you that it's the exact same that's waiting for you by using legendary stones on ultimate gear (3% less success rate). If you still have 1k legendary stones from the exchange, that's great news for you and I can understand why you'd stomp your feet at DN-E not getting the fort, since you're ready to purify your whole +15 legendary set, yeah ? With your 250M+ AP ? But otherwise... relax a bit and enjoy the game, because getting PvP legendaries is nyerk hard without them being on the shop/from the exchange so long-term wise it'll take close to forever if you don't have some now.

And, at least DN-E will get the fort soon, on KT-A we haven't even gotten the gate down once I believe haha.

[Sweetzerlandia]

On 11/1/2018 at 10:13 PM, Hatsuki-DN said:

Well. where do I start. Elyos are completely outnumbered by Asmos... I would like to petition NC to implement some sort of incentive for people who decide to come play our humble faction.

After several sieges, I noticed that Asmodian outnumber us greatly. So.. yeah. I'd hope something can be done about it. .

Maybe the DN elyos can come to KT and the KT elyos can go to DN.  We're outnumbered here on KT which we're used to but if another server has the same problem they should balance it with the opposing faction

[Mirelium-KT]

the real problem is not the faction imbalance but the system. the faction who owns the fort has an advantage, so even if asmo on KT had same numbers would still be difficult to get the fort. In normal circumstances, the Balaur Dredge should have leveled the plain field a little. Like it was in Inggi Gelk sieges. The dredgion in this patch however is too week, it takes 30 second to wipe all balaurs, which is not enough to get down the gate. Hell you can't even bring it under 50% in 30 seconds. 
 

I personally can't say if asmos are outnumbered or not. don't have the facts, the numbers. but i honestly think a stronger dredgion attack team would provide with a more balanced siege and provide a better chance to the attacking faction. They should bring back that strong balaur commander we saw in inggi/gelk sieges.

Lot's of Love

[Falcy-DN]

Bump~

Numbers for Divine Siege today(11/11)
Asmos had 412 plus or minus (63 + 29 + 24 + 44 + 34 + 23 + 82 + 49 + 12 + 13 + 39)
Elyos had 281 plus or minus.   (39 + 19 + 27 + 24 + 25 + 20 + 50 + 31 + 8 + 6 + 32)

Elyos were outnumbered 1:1.68

That is all for today. 

[Arlyce-DN]

how long did it even last? i didnt keep track

[Shirayuki-DN]

On 08/11/2018 at 3:05 PM, Falcy-DN said:

I'm gonna interject a little bit here about the numbers situation on Danaria.

During the Saturday Lakrum siege(11/3), I ended up counting 650+ Elyos vs 600+ Asmos. These numbers are worthless because there's no way to filter who was participating and who was not. It's just a number at the end of the day.

Now, during Divine Siege(11/4), I was able to count 309+ Elyos vs 454+ Asmos. That siege only tells me that this specific siege we were outnumbered 1:1.5 
Unfortunately, I gotta wait until this upcoming Divine Siege to see if those numbers continue to ring true. If it's roughly the same 5 minutes into the siege this week than last week, then sure, I'll admit that it's a numbers situation, but it's more likely to be a turnout problem followed by a gear gap(To an extent, no way I'm gonna try to figure that out)\

Anyway, I just wanted to say those numbers cause no one posted them here when I posted them in LFG after the fact. 

 

28 minutes ago, Falcy-DN said:

Bump~

Numbers for Divine Siege today(11/11)
Asmos had 412 plus or minus (63 + 29 + 24 + 44 + 34 + 23 + 82 + 49 + 12 + 13 + 39)
Elyos had 281 plus or minus.   (39 + 19 + 27 + 24 + 25 + 20 + 50 + 31 + 8 + 6 + 32)

Elyos were outnumbered 1:1.68

That is all for today. 

So, is it a turn out problem? How many people do you have in lakrum now?

[Falcy-DN]

It's mostly a turn out problem, but the most possible underlying issue it could be is a gear problem. I think it's a gear problem anyway.

I kinda wanna take a poll of the faction to determine what their gear is like now...