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XOliviaX-DN

Does Support Chanter exist now? Is it even useful?

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Hey,

We were having this discussion over chanter chat yesterday and I was getting information to just make a DPS set and socket all crit.  The best defense is a good offense.  Is this what most chanters are doing these days?  I am coming up on having a full ancient set all pieces with weapons (staff/shield/mace) and just wondered what to socket? (healing boost or crit?).  I am working on enchanting it up as well with some success to at least +7 for now until I get more stones.

As far as stigmas go for support as well.  I am using all the ones to get word of instigation because I like it for groups as well as recovery spell and healing burst.  It is hard to kill in this setup.  I like the dps setup but then I lose WOI.

Any advice?

Thanks.

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I'm using a dps/support hybrid build that i love, and in my opinion, maximizes all the Chanter branches. I currently tuned all my (Bloodsworn) equipment to P. Atk, Hp and Healing Boost, in that priority order (tuning is by far the best deal you can get out of healing boost). Set my stigmas for Word of Instigation and the other skills to dps. I'm doing basically the same dps as with dps stigmas (excluding Blessing of Wind obviously), because i'm maximizing WoI and Inv. Mantra % P. Atk bonus by having a higher base P. Atk. I don't usually use transformations or shards.


P. Atk: 11.7k (last FM i ran i was 3rd place in dps, with 10.6k)
HP: 51k
Heal with Sta. Restoration: +10k
Group buffs: All except Word of protection (which is crap, i opted for Blessing of Stone)

I won't advice going for crit builds, because in this patch, i believe the formula definition makes way harder to get crits. Previously to this build i had all my equipment tuned for crit, had like 2.3k crit and barely land 10-15% of my hits critical, when in v5 with 500 crit. i had like 50% crit. chance.

I'm using no manastones, in v6 i haven't been able to succesfully socket a single one =(

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Donee-EK   
24 minutes ago, Edmond-KT said:

I'm using a dps/support hybrid build that i love, and in my opinion, maximizes all the Chanter branches. I currently tuned all my (Bloodsworn) equipment to P. Atk, Hp and Healing Boost, in that priority order (tuning is by far the best deal you can get out of healing boost). Set my stigmas for Word of Instigation and the other skills to dps. I'm doing basically the same dps as with dps stigmas (excluding Blessing of Wind obviously), because i'm maximizing WoI and Inv. Mantra % P. Atk bonus by having a higher base P. Atk. I don't usually use transformations or shards.


P. Atk: 11.7k (last FM i ran i was 3rd place in dps, with 10.6k)
HP: 51k
Heal with Sta. Restoration: +10k
Group buffs: All except Word of protection (which is crap, i opted for Blessing of Stone)

I won't advice going for crit builds, because in this patch, i believe the formula definition makes way harder to get crits. Previously to this build i had all my equipment tuned for crit, had like 2.3k crit and barely land 10-15% of my hits critical, when in v5 with 500 crit. i had like 50% crit. chance.

I'm using no manastones, in v6 i haven't been able to succesfully socket a single one =(

So crit builds are not worth anymore? That from a pvp or pve point of view?

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36 minutes ago, Donee-EK said:

So crit builds are not worth anymore? That from a pvp or pve point of view?

Pve, i've never done, don't do, and will NEVER do pvp, all my post are regarding only pve things.

Well, about the crit, that's what i've observed, now having more than 4 times the crit value than before (basically all my equipment tuned to crit) i dont even land half the crits i used to do in v5...

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Oh, and regarding the topic title, well, the Chanter support role (for himself and party members) is to lighten the load of the cleric and boost the dps, not to be the main healer. It's a "passive buffer" where the total buffs given by mantras + words + blessing enhances the party.

With Daevanion skills, chanter heals even more than Clerics, but that's an specific situation.

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On 11/9/2018 at 9:02 AM, XOliviaX-DN said:

I am coming up on having a full ancient set all pieces with weapons (staff/shield/mace) and just wondered what to socket? (healing boost or crit?).

This is from where your issue is stemming. A chanter needs separate sets for dps and support. Your dps set will have atk/crit. Your support set will have hp/hb. If you try to make just one set and cover all of those bases, you will not do any of them very well because you won't have enough stats for any of them.

I think you're talking about pve (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'll take from a pve perspective as well. I will always be in my dps gear with hybrid stigmas (giving me the WoI linked stigma, but bottom and extra stigmas are all dps except Word of Life). However, I also have a hp/hb set. It's useful when I'm full healing, of course, but even if I have a cleric and I'm dpsing 95% of the time, I will still one-click over to my heal boost set, pop Word of Life or a single target heal, then immediately click back over to my dps set and keep going. You can really maximize your heals that way. Don't forget the Protection Ward skill (the yellow one) also gives heal boost as well as our 4k skill, Winter Circle.

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12 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

Isnt Protection Ward a just self shield now?

The shield part of it is only for yourself now, correct. However, it does give 200 heal boost. Here is the tooltip:

rRjS5su.png

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Also.. i don't fully agree with your post Vantheria, you not necessary need to max out HB in order to heal a good amount. The Chanter support function is not to match the Cleric's heal level, but to provide a steady-constant medium heal along with stat boost and buffs. Your role as support is to buff the party and to complement the Cleric, restating everything to HB won't make much difference with 50% HB 50% P.Atk.

I'd say go wisely for each part, each slot, each tune, look which stat gives the best benefit out of each possible tune/manastone and go with that.

Remember that the Chanter is an hybrid class, not a specialist one.

Edited by Edmond-KT

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40 minutes ago, Edmond-KT said:

Also.. i don't fully agree with your post Vantheria, you not necessary need to max out HB in order to heal a good amount. The Chanter support function is not to match the Cleric's heal level, but to provide a steady-constant medium heal along with stat boost and buffs. Your role as support is to buff the party and to complement the Cleric, restating everything to HB won't make much difference with 50% HB 50% P.Atk.

I'd say go wisely for each part, each slot, each tune, look which stat gives the best benefit out of each possible tune/manastone and go with that.

Remember that the Chanter is an hybrid class, not a specialist one.

I didn't say to max out heal boost. I've never had "max" heal boost on my chanter. And I agree; there's no replacement for a good cleric. But to try to spread out all of your stats on just one set of gear is poor advice, if I'm being frank. You will never be a great dps, and you will never be a great support. You will be middle of the road because you'll be lacking stats in each area. It's best to have more than one set of gear. That said, I do agree that dps gear should be prioritized over support gear. Get your dps gear looking good before you start working on your support gear.

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Well, my point is... let's say we could broadly classify our roles into Dps - Tank - Support, giving from 0 to 1 in each category as 'proficiency' (Generic rpg online range).

With an hybrid class you will never get 1 in one of the categories, so, if you only go for one you will get 0.8-0-0, 0-0.8-0 or 0-0-0.8, but, getting an hybrid build, you can get 0.7-0.7-0.7, which in the overall is way better than just one stat. It's just a thing of the cost-benefit curve, it's not linear, after some point, the benefit for marginally increasing one aspect gives zero-to-none benefit. Look, for example, HB, HB manastones give around 10 HB, which is NOTHING, but 59 Crit, which is a lot. Tuning in many pieces give 100 HB or more while sometimes barely 60 crit. per piece. Same as HP, some pieces tuning give barely 60 HP while other give more than 1k. So, if you go for a single target, a percent of your "tunings/socketing/etc" will be wasted because give poor stats on that "path" while they give way better ones in another.

 

So, in my opinion, if you max out the hybrid path, you'll be worth 70% of a dps char, 70% of a support char and 70% of a tank char, at the same time, but going for only one path won't give you much more preficiency in that branch but the other ones will dramatically fall.

 

That's the concept of the hybrid classes, if you want to purely support, don't make a Chanter, make a Cleric, same with pure dps and pure tank.

Anyway, all of that comes from testing and discussion, so, i'm totally available for testing different builds, stigmas, stats, etc. in scope of improving and gain knowledge. Chanter for me is by far the best best best class in the game, and i love to improve my way around with it ;) !

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4 minutes ago, Edmond-KT said:

That's the concept of the hybrid classes, if you want to purely support, don't make a Chanter, make a Cleric, same with pure dps and pure tank.

Orrrrr... use the superawesome mechanic that NCsoft gave us which allows us to click back and forth between more than one set of gear instantly. Seriously, it's so easy.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic. :)

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Healing Boost is available as a random tuning option in the following slots:

  • Weapon
  • Shield
  • Feather
  • Wing
  • Bracelet
  • Necklace
  • Earring x2
  • Ring x2
  • Belt

... in PvE gear (Genesis Crystal and instance drops), and PvP Ultimate double-purified Genesis Crystal gear.

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On 11/17/2018 at 0:14 PM, Astraea-EK said:

So what does healing boost do to chanter skills ? does it work on recovery spell ?

 

Yep, it increases the amount you heal with healing spells. Now, from what i've seen, it increases a lot for a small amount of HB. I have about.. 550 HB and my Stamina Recovering heals me about 12k, with no HB it was about 8k (50% increment). Considering that Word of Life now heals a lot more than in v5 and Stamina Rec. cd was lowered to half, that's almost a break-even point for autoheal surviving.

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Gabe-DN   

I agree to disagree with most of what is in this post.  You can be a support chanter but in this patch you don't need, want or probably can afford a support set.  There isn't an instance in this patch where a chanter is just sitting back healing a group.  Almost everything is a DPS race race you basically just run support in DPS set.  Wasting money and slots on HB is really just a joke though it does minimally increase healing you seem to forget what a huge bump in HP everybody got and you couldn't possibly socket enough HB to make up for the lack of DPS you would bring to a group.  The cd on Rejuvenating Spell is only 10 seconds and its so good as long as you can dps and throw that skill out to keep a steady stream of heals flowing to the group I would think most anybody would be happy to have you.

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Capa-KT   

It's actually really easy and cheap to build a CoE HB set, and you only need to pop it on to cast the aoe recovery spell, then switch back to dps set. My HB set is currently a mix of whatever dropped in Mirash, CoE, FM, BoS in terms of gold accs/weps/wings, and rolled HP+HB to reach 800 HB, still fully unsocketed. This boosts Rejuvenating Spell to 6364 instead of the base 3522 with Celerity. And with an old HB set, you can hit near 1.2k HB once your 6.0 pieces are socketed with HB (obviously not on ancient pieces), nearing even 1.3k with hb +8 but that's a bit extreme unless you have spare ultimate pieces.

Your main (dps) set should still be rolled crit/atk mainly, one set for PvE, and one set for PvP (vindicator set with inquisitor wep). You can easily use a PvE HB set for group PvP and thus a 2nd PvP support set is not necessary. It's a bit trickier for 1v1s/3v3s but feasible- however generally speaking chanters have so much survivability this patch, you can easily outheal/outshield yourself in a PvP hb-less set.

A HB PvE set might not be that important in PvE (although it is really easy to make one) unless your goal as a support is to carry or replace your cleric, but in PvP it can help out tons, particularly since chanters don't often get focused anyways, so switching to HB set is a breeze (instead of endangering your entire group every time, like on cleric), giving your group a second Splendor of Recovery every 10s. Obviously, if you don't have the aoe recovery spell, it's a different story since you'll still need to carry Healing Burst most likely, but you also get a nice boost to that with just 800 HB (boosted to 10150 instead of the base 5618 with Celerity).

Speed read most of the other answers but essentially, with the aoe recovery spell, you can go hybrid or full dps and still support extremely efficiently, even more so with a HB set to pop the Spell. All the while pulling meaningful dps, unlike before when you had to sacrifice strong heals or strong(er) dps for the opposite. If you still run Healing Burst out of necessity, you can still use the same stigma build I screenshot underneath, simply replacing Blessing of Stone for Heal. Burst and, if you don't have +9 stigs, Soul Lock for Word of Life.

Furthermore, going full support is not something that's really a requirement particularly for end-game PvE like Primeth and iDD where you need high accuracy stats for your physical dpsers (at least early on)- word of inspiration, the red one, gives almost double the accuracy of instigation. Ofc the other boosts are weaker, but hitting the boss is a bit more important than hitting it hard. Depending what your dpsers chose to roll on their sets, it might be wiser to take one over the other. Additionally, without Instigation being as crucial, you can afford to bring Blessing of Wind, which will boost your dps by a lot, and with a set of +9 stigs, you can have it up 44% of the time.

So nowadays you can bring a build like this to pve, which would've been considered quite confused in 5.x, and actually support (and buff) your group properly while also bringing actual dps to the table. If your group has decent HP (40k for BoS/FM, 50k for Primeth/iDD), you can drop Blessing of Stone for something more useful in your case. The two extra stigmas on the left are not a must.

wVUFiJJ.png

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Lapis-DN   
On 19/11/2018 at 0:24 PM, Gabe-DN said:

I agree to disagree with most of what is in this post.  You can be a support chanter but in this patch you don't need, want or probably can afford a support set.  There isn't an instance in this patch where a chanter is just sitting back healing a group.  Almost everything is a DPS race race you basically just run support in DPS set.  Wasting money and slots on HB is really just a joke though it does minimally increase healing you seem to forget what a huge bump in HP everybody got and you couldn't possibly socket enough HB to make up for the lack of DPS you would bring to a group.  The cd on Rejuvenating Spell is only 10 seconds and its so good as long as you can dps and throw that skill out to keep a steady stream of heals flowing to the group I would think most anybody would be happy to have you.

 

hm? not sure

A single wings tuning gives you 110+ healing boost bonus wich means almost 11% on healing 

I've got 600+ on my chanter and its a whooping boost for Rejuvenating Spell. It heals almost 30k of all group members and can be perma spammed.

 

Splendor of Recovery is crying right now

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Lapis-DN   
On 19/11/2018 at 8:33 PM, Capa-KT said:

It's actually really easy and cheap to build a CoE HB set, and you only need to pop it on to cast the aoe recovery spell, then switch back to dps set. My HB set is currently a mix of whatever dropped in Mirash, CoE, FM, BoS in terms of gold accs/weps/wings, and rolled HP+HB to reach 800 HB, still fully unsocketed. This boosts Rejuvenating Spell to 6364 instead of the base 3522 with Celerity. And with an old HB set, you can hit near 1.2k HB once your 6.0 pieces are socketed with HB (obviously not on ancient pieces), nearing even 1.3k with hb +8 but that's a bit extreme unless you have spare ultimate pieces.

Your main (dps) set should still be rolled crit/atk mainly, one set for PvE, and one set for PvP (vindicator set with inquisitor wep). You can easily use a PvE HB set for group PvP and thus a 2nd PvP support set is not necessary. It's a bit trickier for 1v1s/3v3s but feasible- however generally speaking chanters have so much survivability this patch, you can easily outheal/outshield yourself in a PvP hb-less set.

A HB PvE set might not be that important in PvE (although it is really easy to make one) unless your goal as a support is to carry or replace your cleric, but in PvP it can help out tons, particularly since chanters don't often get focused anyways, so switching to HB set is a breeze (instead of endangering your entire group every time, like on cleric), giving your group a second Splendor of Recovery every 10s. Obviously, if you don't have the aoe recovery spell, it's a different story since you'll still need to carry Healing Burst most likely, but you also get a nice boost to that with just 800 HB (boosted to 10150 instead of the base 5618 with Celerity).

Speed read most of the other answers but essentially, with the aoe recovery spell, you can go hybrid or full dps and still support extremely efficiently, even more so with a HB set to pop the Spell. All the while pulling meaningful dps, unlike before when you had to sacrifice strong heals or strong(er) dps for the opposite. If you still run Healing Burst out of necessity, you can still use the same stigma build I screenshot underneath, simply replacing Blessing of Stone for Heal. Burst and, if you don't have +9 stigs, Soul Lock for Word of Life.

Furthermore, going full support is not something that's really a requirement particularly for end-game PvE like Primeth and iDD where you need high accuracy stats for your physical dpsers (at least early on)- word of inspiration, the red one, gives almost double the accuracy of instigation. Ofc the other boosts are weaker, but hitting the boss is a bit more important than hitting it hard. Depending what your dpsers chose to roll on their sets, it might be wiser to take one over the other. Additionally, without Instigation being as crucial, you can afford to bring Blessing of Wind, which will boost your dps by a lot, and with a set of +9 stigs, you can have it up 44% of the time.

So nowadays you can bring a build like this to pve, which would've been considered quite confused in 5.x, and actually support (and buff) your group properly while also bringing actual dps to the table. If your group has decent HP (40k for BoS/FM, 50k for Primeth/iDD), you can drop Blessing of Stone for something more useful in your case. The two extra stigmas on the left are not a must.

wVUFiJJ.png

 

the accuracy on WoI was a mistake and they corrected I think.

Now Instigation gives more

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Lapis-DN   

Chanters are fabulous on 6.x patch. I've never saw NCsoft giving so much love to this classe before, except for the Protection Ward on 5.x Era who was extremely amazing!

 

Cleansing Spell was amazing on 6.0 because it used to dispel Fear and Sleep. Even the nerfed version we got on 6.2 is powerful.
Rejuvenating Spell is the most OP heal over time this game ever faced, even on 6.5 with its cooldown increased to 12s this skill will shine bright

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Lapis-DN   
1 hour ago, mooMOOMooMoomoo-KT said:

After 6.5 patch, there will be another nerf to the two Chanter daevanion skills, which make them unable to receive +15% healing effect from shards

 

yes ikr
But I think its is just to balance things since priests with ultimate gear can reach much more than 1k healing boost

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Gabe-DN   

Switching to  HP pve set during pvp like wtf?   Retuning wings for HB again like wtf?  If its the 3rd stat I guess that is fine but you still need crit and acc just like any other physical dps.  People clutching to hp sets are still living in the wrong patch, its pointless as you already said your not getting focused and if your getting hit then just simply move, almost every heal is an instacast except for healing burst.  Also if your getting hit during the pvp fights, you can probably count on the guy hitting you is ignoring the marks he is suppose to be following so he will either switch or you kite him around long enough your group works thru the marks then eliminates the threat bothering you.  Now that I think about it, I guess I could resocket my legendary pvp set with hp/hp and give it a try but I have yet to come across a match where I even need it.  I will admit I gave up on the idea before 6.0 when they were denying us new shields and maces but I might have to farm me a new shield and do some testing since cube is maxed out and I am curious about the shield defense.

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