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Delessa-DN

Drop purification requirement from +15 to +10

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Change the requirement to old requirement, +10 and you can purify, or -5 levels on purification.

+15 is ridiculous and neigh impossible to achieve for most players, in effect most players are stonewalled behind RNG.

What progression? You can drop 200+ stones on an item and not have it +15. Those same 200 stones would still be able to net +10 in most cases which translates into progress if it could be purified. Nearly a month in and with most players being stonewalled at yellow +10 is pretty absurd. One would think that at least one ugpradeable piece would make sense.

Edited by Delessa-DN

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I had no idea it would be this hard to do anything with ancient gear, almost 1 month into this patch and I have yet to get 1 single piece of ancient gear to +15 hitting every pvp instance on every opportunity with the prestige pack and every siege. And this is with spending genesis crystals on ancient pvp enchantment stones and using legendary stones from +12 or +13 onwards. Even if you get lucky and manage to get to +13, if you use 2 legendary stones on it at that point there would be at best a 12% chance that both succeed and you hit +15.

What makes this so much better is that there are people running around in ultimate pvp gear that they got comp'd for their old gear (a ridiculous idea for a gear system that was over hauled and a completely new patch). There is literally no way to close the gap unless they do something about these enchantment rates.

These enchantment rates are going to cause people to decide it's not worth playing and quit hand over fist. If there's no path towards progression what's the point in even playing?

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3 hours ago, MiphaBae-DN said:

I had no idea it would be this hard to do anything with ancient gear, almost 1 month into this patch and I have yet to get 1 single piece of ancient gear to +15 hitting every pvp instance on every opportunity with the prestige pack and every siege. And this is with spending genesis crystals on ancient pvp enchantment stones and using legendary stones from +12 or +13 onwards. Even if you get lucky and manage to get to +13, if you use 2 legendary stones on it at that point there would be at best a 12% chance that both succeed and you hit +15.

What makes this so much better is that there are people running around in ultimate pvp gear that they got comp'd for their old gear (a ridiculous idea for a gear system that was over hauled and a completely new patch). There is literally no way to close the gap unless they do something about these enchantment rates.

These enchantment rates are going to cause people to decide it's not worth playing and quit hand over fist. If there's no path towards progression what's the point in even playing?

The enchantment system is the reason so many people ran away from this game long ago and it is the reason we won't get or retain any new players. Who wants the stress unless you are already committed to the game. NCwest had the power to change this system and never has. This should've been adjusted for the NA player base long ago. All they had to do was remove the, lose a level on a failed attempt, and all would be fine. Who wants to work grinding kinah/materials to not only, not progress, but lose progress? Only us poor saps that are in it for the long haul.

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So let me start off by saying I got trade in gear and am to attempting to get the gear purified. That being said, getting enchantment stones is 500x easier these days then getting oemgas (minus omegas on the broker) and people who complain that they don't get it in one shot is pretty laughable.

 

Getting the best gear is supposed to be hard. So get to 13 or so then try two purple stones later. Take a few days to break, that's what I had to do. i got to 13 then two days later tried two purple stones and got it t+15. The rates need to change for sure but They gamble on the fact that you sit there and throw all 200 in one shot hoping. 

 

If people haven't figured out by now Aion is a casino and the odds are against you. Something to take into account or you probably be very happy.  I rather see more purple stones available then I would lower it to 10. 15 feels good and you bet your ass I felt good when I got my item to +15 and got it to purple. 300+ stones later. I can never think of a point in time where I could farm 300  + stones so yes the compensation for the time put in is pretty spot on. A higher success rate is needed but not by a ton. 

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Mirei-KT   
30 minutes ago, Chizow-DN said:

Getting the best gear is supposed to be hard. So get to 13 or so then try two purple stones later. Take a few days to break, that's what I had to do. i got to 13 then two days later tried two purple stones and got it t+15. The rates need to change for sure but they gamble on the fact that you sit there and throw all 200 in one shot hoping.

I think the main problem here is that the gaps between the new gear grades are immense. People in ulti exchange gear can afk in the middle of a fight against 15+ of your average players, add up a transformation and they are literal godmode. New players and those who didn't (or couldn't) invest in exchange gear ahead of time alike are introduced to an increasingly hostile endgame environment - the first groups have already begun to camp bases and raid the beginner areas to grief others and delay their progression.

Yes, it's supposed to be hard. But I think a lot of players would have more peace with the current enchantment rates if the gaps between the new gear grades weren't so obvious and thrown in your face all the time. Being facerolled over and over without even being able to put a dent in such people is a factor that is going to demotivate a lot of players, putting the current enchant rates aside.

Edited by Mirei-KT

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Over 100 pvp stones (had some saved from week before) tunic went from +14 back to +10 and now another week of waiting for reset on camps to get stones to enchant about ready to tell ncfail to enchant this and uninstall. I have been here since the begining of this game and i have never been this punished for trying to progress in any game in my life, just need +5 levels and 100 stones and im still at +10 absolutely disgusting 

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It's always been a bad system. Only the most ignorant player would argue otherwise. 

Even if it was +10 to Legendary and +15 to Ultimate, that would make a ton more sense, tiered is tiered, eh?

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Germ-DN   

Enchanting is pretty easy IMO just last night I enchanted ultimate bracelet to 15 with 10 legendary stones and a bunch of ancients :o

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Not sure bout germ but I did all that as a f2p, no prestige, no temperings/omegas from previous patch for exchange, didn't attend all sieges/PvP instance timings. So how is enchanting hard?

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1) legendary stones are RNG and by no means guaranteed from instance bundles. I have 8 out of 30+ bundles, that's hardly "farmable", it's RNG on top of RNG. Please don't talk if you had X omegas/tempering solutions stacked up from last patch and exchanged hundreds of stones. You don't count.

2) ancient stones are useless past +10 and useless past +3 for purple and above

3) Upgrades from 10-15 give the highest bonuses anyways; people being stonewalled at ancient because of RNG is absurd. If anything it should be possible to +15 ancient with ancient if the +15 system is the way to go, it's not currently.

3a) RNG isn't hard, it's not difficult, it's RNG. There is absolutely nothing that a player can do to affect it currently; before you could use omegas, you could use greater supplements to stack the odds, now, you cannot.

 

It's fascinating how some people defend the system by saying "good gear should be hard to get" while demonstrating their utter inability to comprehend the concept of difficulty.

 

The cap for legendary purification should be dropped to 10. Ultimate can stay at 15, as at the very least then players aren't facing +2 tiers gear difference, it's only +1 which is far more manageable. Not to mention stats like attack speed, move speed, cast speed are locked at legendary and up. If you didn't roll a good transform in the event (I did not, I rolled 2x caster transforms), you're reliant on these stats.

 

I figure this isn't a problem in South Korea because:

1) everyone has compensated gear and an ungodly number of omegas/tempering solutions to exchange for stones

2) they are at 6.5 which is a significant rate increase

3) they sell the stones in their store

 

It's as if the NA version is being run by one sadistic piece of work who's only purpose is to drive players away, cause them stress, and generally make their lives as miserable as possible.

 

Edited by Delessa-DN

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The chance of getting +15 with ancient stones is 0.17%, and the chance of getting +15 from +10 with legendary stones is significantly better but still absurdly low at 2.5%. These numbers represent "in a row" probabilities.

In general the chances of getting 5 in a row are nonexistent.

 

With the 6.5 update the rates rise to: 2.5/15% respectively.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Delessa-DN

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10 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) legendary stones are RNG and by no means guaranteed from instance bundles. I have 8 out of 30+ bundles, that's hardly "farmable", it's RNG on top of RNG. Please don't talk if you had X omegas/tempering solutions stacked up from last patch and exchanged hundreds of stones. You don't count.

Refer to the previous post.

11 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

2) ancient stones are useless past +10 and useless past +3 for purple and above

Untrue. Past +12 for ancient and past +5 - 10/+12 - 15 for purple and above.

13 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

3) Upgrades from 10-15 give the highest bonuses anyways; people being stonewalled at ancient because of RNG is absurd. If anything it should be possible to +15 ancient with ancient if the +15 system is the way to go, it's not currently.

If you wish to sit on your arse till 6.5 then sure thing. Otherwise its about time to use some legendary stones.

14 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

3a) RNG isn't hard, it's not difficult, it's RNG. There is absolutely nothing that a player can do to affect it currently; before you could use omegas, you could use greater supplements to stack the odds, now, you cannot.

 

1 minute ago, Delessa-DN said:

The chance of getting +15 with ancient stones is 0.17%, you can find this number with a simple probability calculation of 28% to the power of 5 which is how many attempts are needed from +10.

It's not happening.

The chance of getting +15 from +10 with legendary stones is significantly better but still absurdly low at 2.5%.

Yea I can do math better than Kailor. Math shows that its absurdly low but rng is rng and it seems like the imgur link I linked above is a testament to rng. The game has been filled with rng for a long long time. If your a vet you should understand that you just deal with it.

 

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1) We're taking you purely at your word that you have none of the aforementioned items. Without seeing all your gear and what you had at the beginning of this patch I'm taking that with a grain of salt - especially given that you seemingly have ultimate gear already and I see harvester gear - implying compensated gear. You talk about being an "average F2P player" yet your own screenshot suggests anything but that. You might have been F2P but certainly not average; I can imagine for example, abusing events like snowball events with multiple accounts and max alts to farm billions upon billions of kinah.

2) Math is math. 28% for ancient past +10 and 55/35/15% for legendary up to +0/4/7. To imply that you can reach +10 with ancient on legendary is absurd, the probabilities do not support it nor in fact do your own screenshots. If it took 100 stones to reach +5 on one piece then effectively it's confirmation of the probabilities: +0-3 = 16%, 3-5 = 12.5%.

3) neither relevant nor constructive

4) Apparently you can't do math or you wouldn't have said what you did in 2.

4a) You neglected to mention that under the old systems RNG could be mitigated. If I wanted to enchant an eternal I'd use +30 levels for 80%. If I wanted to enchant mythical, I'd use +40 levels for 80%. If I wanted to +15, I'd use omegas and greater supplements for 75% and or 100% for archdaeva gear. Your attempt to equate static RNG to RNG subject to player action is puzzling.

 

 

Edited by Delessa-DN

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15 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) We're taking you purely at your word that you have none of the aforementioned items. Without seeing all your gear and what you had at the beginning of this patch I'm taking that with a huge grain of salt - especially given that you seemingly have ultimate gear already and I see harvester gear - implying compensated gear. You talk about being an "average F2P player" yet your own screenshot suggests anything but that. You might have been F2P but certainly not average; I can imagine for example, abusing events like snowball events with multiple accounts and max alts to farm billions upon billions of kinah.

Well, now that you point that out yea sure I guess in your terms not average. I started this patch with 400m and that is on the low side already. I have legion mates who started patch with 9b kinah. Maybe to you 400m is alot but to me 400m isn't alot. Also why are we talking about compensated gear (yea I decided to sacrifice kinah over gear compensation pre patch) here when the whole point i'm trying to show you with the screenshot is that it isn't impossible to +15 items and purify them?

15 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

2) Math is math. 28% for ancient past +10 and 55/35/15% for legendary up to +0/4/7. To imply that you can reach +10 with ancient on legendary is absurd, the probabilities do not support it nor in fact do your own screenshots. If it took 100 stones to reach +5 on one piece then effectively it's confirmation of the probabilities: +0-3 = 16%, 3-5 = 12.5%.

Bruh how in rage or tears are you? Can you even read what I typed in the previous post?

Here

26 minutes ago, Shirayuki-DN said:

Untrue. Past +12 for ancient and past +5 - 10/+12 - 15 for purple and above.

Based on your previous rant.

 

46 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

2) ancient stones are useless past +10 and useless past +3 for purple and above

I'm correcting you that ancients are useless past +5 - 10 and from +12 - 15 for purple and above. Which part of my sentence implied that you can reach +10 with ancients on legendary?

15 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

4) Apparently you can't do math.

End of the day what I'm trying to tell you great o veteran who apparently gives NCsoft alot of money unlike me and think they should listen to what you have to say is, don't let the math tilt you. Because its 2.5% doesn't mean its impossible because RNG is RNG. I thought you knew this game was a casino? 

O and also I forgot to add since i'm addressing your main issues. That just because its 28% with ancient stones on ancient gear past +10 doesn't mean you can't use ancient because +10 is a fail safe you don't drop below it. I mean if you want to waste legendary stones starting at +10 on ancient gear sure go ahead. Also no I didn't use 100 stones to get to +5 legendary. More like a mere 30. And ancient stones are free flow FYI.

Edited by Shirayuki-DN

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1) as you have misrepresented "I'm just an average player" off the get go, what's to make me believe you didn't stack omegas/tempers for stones? You obviously have a vested interest in trying to "prove" me and others who think alike "wrong" as in you obviously think we should all just suck it up and either zombie grind it, or quit. I actually get that you're actively trying to push people who aren't pleased with the current state of affairs to quit.

2) Your own words obviously.

Quote

Untrue. Past +12 for ancient and past +5 - 10/+12 - 15 for purple and above.

Past +12 so 10-12 doable for ancient.

Past +5-10/12-15 for purple and above so +5 and +12 doable for ancient.

Refer to the math above. Oh and the chance of getting +12 with ancients is 0.25%. +12 with ancients on ancient is 8%.

3) Why yes, by definition because winning a lottery is only 1/26 million it's not impossible; just neigh impossible and improbable for practically everyone. Is that what you're trying to argue? Because it's not 0 it's fine?

 

Why don't you dispense with the bull pseudo intellectual trolling and simply tell everyone to quit the game if they don't like it?

It would save us a lot of time not to mention it would give me a good reason to stop replying to you as even if you're trolling, which I'm aware you are, it's not flat out trolling to the point where I'd simply ignore.

Edited by Delessa-DN

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6 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) as you have misrepresented "I'm just an average player" off the get go, what's to make me believe you didn't stack omegas/tempers for stones? You obviously have a vested interest in trying to "prove" me and others who think like "wrong" as in you obviously think we should all just suck it up and either zombie grind it, or quit.

Well believe what you want then, LUL. Yea I would appreciate if you zombie grind or quit. Been see-ing you just standing around in town complaining here.

6 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

Refer to the math above. Oh and the chance of getting +12 with ancients is 0.25%.

May I point out the fact there is something called a +2 proc?

6 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

3) Why yes, by definition because winning a lottery is only 1/26 million it's not impossible; just neigh impossible and improbable for practically everyone. Is that what you're trying to argue? Because it's not 0 it's fine?

Well I must be the luckiest person to have 5 pieces purified already then. Its ok, i'll keep the screenshots up in the coming weeks. Glhf continue throwing the ancient stones on your ancient gear and believing that should be the way to +15 it. Perhaps sometimes its a matter of are you doing something right instead of "rng rng".

Edited by Shirayuki-DN

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1) Maybe you should avoid replying to my topics and or avoid reading what I post then. No one forces you to enter my threads just to say "you're wrong" and "everything is fine" despite the fact that there are people who support my stance and far less who support yours. Strange isn't it?

2) Why yes, at a 10% chance on success. So let me see, for ancient at 28%, you will net the +2 roughly 3 times. For legendary at 5%, you will net it at most, once out of 100 stones which translates into a full week of camps/weekly kill quests for crystals. Math really isn't your strong point is it?

3) Maybe you are. By definition, RNG is not repeatable through mass sampling and as such you are merely an anecdote. For everyone one of you, there are likely 98 others who cannot do the same. Of course I'm simplifying here. Anecdotes are the worst thing to bring up in any argument, notice why I stick to math alone and refrain from mentioning myself or making it about me alone?

Edited by Delessa-DN

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16 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

1) Maybe you should avoid replying to my topics and or avoid reading what I post then. No one forces you to enter my threads just to say "you're wrong" and "everything is fine" despite the fact that there are people who support my stance and far less who support yours. Strange isn't it?

I don't know delessa, I just seem to love forum PvPing you. Puts a smirk on my face.

16 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

2) Why yes, at a 10% chance on success. So let me see, for ancient at 28%, you will net the +2 roughly 3 times. For legendary at 5%, you will net it at most, once out of 100 stones which translates into a full week of camps/weekly kill quests for crystals. Math really isn't your strong point is it?

Second best, science is better.

20 minutes ago, Delessa-DN said:

notice why I stick to math alone and refrain from mentioning myself or making it about me alone?

Maybe because you have been sitting on your arse in town all day refraining from zombie grinding to afford some legendary stones besides those from siege/PvP instances and haven't actually been doing anything to experience it yourself (besides wasting ancient enchants) and hence have no other evidence besides math to support you?

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Do you remember when we saw this some months ago?

and we saw videos about how hard was to enchant things? And everyone was so exited about the new cap at +15? And a lot of people was celebrating cause that was the solution against the big whales that had +25 or higher gear.... And some of us realized that wasn´t a total change. Maybe there is a cap, but from +10 to +15 the rates are really small.... So in some way those last 5 levels are the new amplification.... 

No? I guess nobody remember that.  I would like to say "I told you so"

but in the other hand... I wasn´t completelly right. Cause now is much easier to get the enchanment stones and at least we can not pay for them. We need to play to get them. So I was wrong cause is not being used as a P2W thing. Or at least not at the same point than the omegas....

So, IMO:

Most of you joined the game in the last years. Maybe 4.X or even 5.X. You learned how to play Aion in a game where we had so many enchanment stones everywhere. Enchanting medium gear was so common. Now most of you find it so complicated (cause you are right, it is more complicated). But for some of us, who joined the game before that (Aion 3.7 for me), enchanting gear wasn´t that common. We had 130 different stones on that moment. But so few of the good ones. So enchanting gear for us was something only used on endgame gear and really usefull items. We needed to farm a lot to get some stones. Leveling up gear was hard. In this moment, we are back to that. We need to be so wise about where do we use our enchanments and we need to farm a lot of them. 

Still, some people said that the rates will be increased in aion 6.5. 

Also some people said that crafted gear was useless... I saw the lower stats and was a little sad about that. But I guess now I understand the utility of crafted gear. It is a temporal an easier way to have some ultimate gear before we can get the other one. 

Edited by Azzmaria-KT

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Yea he talks about how westerners are not fond of grinding.

Which brings to question, at the end of the day is it that the game is too hard? Or is it because of the mind set of westerners.

Edited by Shirayuki-DN

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we used to be. A lot of players did a lot of grinding. 

That died some time after 4.0 with the unbalanced new recipes and the new mechanics. But we used to grind, we used to collect mats, we used to craft things, we used to repeat some quests a lot of times to get something. And we were sooooo many. I am lazy now, but IMO is not something bad. Maybe some of those players will come back. 

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looool ITT Shirayuki now arguing with math.

23 hours ago, Shirayuki-DN said:

Yea he talks about how westerners are not fond of grinding.

Which brings to question, at the end of the day is it that the game is too hard? Or is it because of the mind set of westerners.

I already addressed this in other threads. But you and Aly are really good at the straw man fallacy (i.e. you're misrepresenting your opposition's position)!

Let me repeat: We don't have a problem with steady progression (I already gave you the example of Genesis Crystal gear as something nobody complains about).

Problem with RNG is that there is no sense of reliability (we don't know how long it will take to reach our goal gear). Couple that with low success rates and a lot of people will often even see negative progression.

I, like you, have gotten pretty lucky this patch. Most of my gear is +10/11 ancient at this point.

Unlike you, I'm smart enough to realize that most people are not as fortunate.

 

On 11/15/2018 at 3:49 PM, Mirei-KT said:

I think the main problem here is that the gaps between the new gear grades are immense. People in ulti exchange gear can afk in the middle of a fight against 15+ of your average players, add up a transformation and they are literal godmode. New players and those who didn't (or couldn't) invest in exchange gear ahead of time alike are introduced to an increasingly hostile endgame environment - the first groups have already begun to camp bases and raid the beginner areas to grief others and delay their progression.

Yes, it's supposed to be hard. But I think a lot of players would have more peace with the current enchantment rates if the gaps between the new gear grades weren't so obvious and thrown in your face all the time. Being facerolled over and over without even being able to put a dent in such people is a factor that is going to demotivate a lot of players, putting the current enchant rates aside.

You hit the nail on the head.

This is exactly why we need better enchantment rates. So that we can get the majority of players on the same tier/grade. PvP between players with different tier/grades of gear is just pointless.

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