Why Songweaver/Chanter can't be balanced to be main healer?

[Leolf-KT]

I can't express how useless the Heal spec of Songweaver is. "Oh but it's supposed to give support to the cleric", Isn't another Cleric a better support for the main cleric than Chanter and Songweaver? Cleric + Cleric >>>>> Cleric + Chanter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cleric + Song, for survival.

Why should I bring a Songweaver Heal spec over another Cleric?

How can Chanter or Songweaver heal a entire party if every relevant PVE content always does HUGE AOE Damage to EVERYBODY when we doesn't have any spamable AoE heal?

When will NC fix this? Why do SW have Heal stigma build if it's useless? It isn't even better single heal than cleric!

That design is outdated and incredibly illogical.

Joyous Carol is a joke, why this isn't a AoE heal?

Soothing Hymn is useless, why would anyone use it if the new daevanion skill is everything better than this slow useless design?

Hymn of Rejuvenation once was good, now it's useless, a potion does more than wasting a stigma slot with this.

Exultation. Do you really think that 300 HB will change anything for a 1668 healing skill? Have NC ever compared to Cleric numbers? Cleric is miles ahead!

The vision skill (purging pean) for healing spec is a complete joke on us. Why would someone use that if our basic dispel (Purification Melody) have less cooldown, does basically the same and also regenerates MP for everyone?

Since 4.0 I didn't see any useful bard on healing spec surpassing an additional cleric.

[Kubei-DN]

NCSOFT likes to go through certain phases. They made SW op in 5.8, get it nerfed in 6.2 and buff their heals in 7.0. Same goes with Chanter. The truth is, there's only one main healer and that's the Cleric. I play heal spec on both Chanter and SW and I like it that way. Having them as "main" healers would render Cleric absolutely useless.

[Leolf-KT]

6 minutes ago, Kubei-DN said:

NCSOFT likes to go through certain phases. They made SW op in 5.8, get it nerfed in 6.2 and buff their heals in 7.0. Same goes with Chanter. The truth is, there's only one main healer and that's the Cleric. I play heal spec on both Chanter and SW and I like it that way. Having them as "main" healers would render Cleric absolutely useless.

I disagree. Sorc is not absolutely useless because of other DPS exist. SW and Chanter can be solo healers with proper balance with stigmas, same as other DPS don't have their label as "useless" just for not being the most damage dealer than every other class.

 

And Cleric for so long was the best DPS in-game, like, WHAT?

Cleric is the most played class for a reason.

[Kubei-DN]

14 minutes ago, Leolf-KT said:

I disagree. Sorc is not absolutely useless because of other DPS exist. SW and Chanter can be solo healers with proper balance with stigmas, same as other DPS don't have their label as "useless" just for not being the most damage dealer than every other class.

 

And Cleric for so long was the best DPS in-game, like, WHAT?

Cleric is the most played class for a reason.

We gotta look at what 6.x offers us though. For example, Chanter is very strong this patch with the Daevanion heal skills, and having 2 of those in a group could very well replace the Cleric. If a SW or Chanter get stronger heals than Cleric, what's the Cleric there for?

[Leolf-KT]

9 minutes ago, Kubei-DN said:

We gotta loot at what 6.x offers us though. For example, Chanter is very strong this patch with the Daevanion heal skills, and having 2 of those in a group could very well replace the Cleric. If a SW or Chanter get stronger heals than Cleric, what's the Cleric there for?

But that's not the concept of balance. I don't want SW/CHANTER to have STRONGER heals than cleric, I want them to be able to solo heal same as cleric. I don't like to call a Cleric for every content I do, I want to have other viable options too.

Something 5.0 brought was no tank needed for PVE content, that was awesome, It was terrible to find a Templar + Cleric Everytime because AT and Glad were useless tanks.

Now even tanks have slots in content doing barely not the best DPS.

Could we SW/Chanters have a minimum chance of doing similar level of healing of Cleric when we choose to lose DPS to get the Healing Stigmas? I honestly can't solo heal anything, no matter how good my gear is, just for not having low CD AoE heals.

Cleric will always be the TOP healer, but it does not need to me miles ahead of SW and Chanter Healing Stigma Builds tho... This is imbalance.

[Kubei-DN]

I mean, I have a heal spec SW and I can solo pretty much everything. The Daevanion skills actually do help too (one has 0s cast time). But then again, the heals of both classes get kinda buffed in 7.0. 

[GenericUser25154]

Healing is so boring.

[Vantheria-DN]

Chanters can solo heal FM with the Daevanion skill Rejuvenating Spell and heal boost accessories. We could also solo heal BoS if not for the bug boss needing a cleric.

That said, I think it's good that we can't solo heal IDD or PF (yet -- prob could do PF with a full ultimate gear group). Our classes were designed to be hybrid for the most part. Clerics were designed to be the main healer, and I don't know why so many chanters and songweavers are constantly trying to "replace" them or prove that they're better than them.

[Kubei-DN]

5 minutes ago, Konkers-EK said:

Healing is so boring.

*GASP* How dare thee!

1 minute ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Chanters can solo heal FM with the Daevanion skill Rejuvenating Spell and heal boost accessories. We could also solo heal BoS if not for the bug boss needing a cleric.

That said, I think it's good that we can't solo heal IDD or PF. Our classes were designed to be hybrid for the most part. Clerics were designed to be the main healer, and I don't know why so many chanters and songweavers are constantly trying to "replace" them or prove that they're better than them.

Quite frankly overall I just love being a healer, or even if it's support. At least heal in games if I can't irl.

[Bryos-DN]

Hmm, maybe you could solo heal IDD actually, with the help of both Daevanion skills, obviously.

[Leolf-KT]

3 minutes ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Chanters can solo heal FM with the Daevanion skill Rejuvenating Spell and heal boost accessories. We could also solo heal BoS if not for the bug boss needing a cleric.

That said, I think it's good that we can't solo heal IDD or PF (yet -- prob could do PF with a full ultimate gear group). Our classes were designed to be hybrid for the most part. Clerics were designed to be the main healer, and I don't know why so many chanters and songweavers are constantly trying to "replace" them or prove that they're better than them.

There's no need for hybrids if 2 Cleric are better than a Cleric + SW/Chanter.

[tortoise-DN]

Coming from the top pvp group in NA running a cleric/chanter/sw comp let me hit you up with them facts:

1. Cleric is the most played class because there are so many ehoes in the game.
2. Cleric + Chanter > Cleric + Cleric. Where did you get that idea? It's not all about healing and being topped off, but also having skills to survive like protective ward.
3. Joyus Carol is not rubbish. If you ever rubbish talk that skill ill find you and ill kill you. I use it everywhere for pvp because how useful it is.
4. Why the hell are you going as a full support spec sw? This isn't 4.x. You will never outheal a cleric or a chanter. You will be at the bottom and be a waste of a spot in group.
5. The #1 chanter NA Meerkat can outheal tryhard clerics without even trying. Chanters are busted right now. And no, Chanter Chanter is a bad idea. 

Source: 

 

[Rapier-DN]

Friends don't let friends do chanter +chanter.

6.You're a waste of a spot in a group  if you can dispel and don't when you should.. Dispels can be >>>> heals.

 

[2s3004E2-DN]

2 hours ago, tortoise-DN said:

Coming from the top pvp group in NA running a cleric/chanter/sw comp let me hit you up with them facts:

1. Cleric is the most played class because there are so many ehoes in the game.
2. Cleric + Chanter > Cleric + Cleric. Where did you get that idea? It's not all about healing and being topped off, but also having skills to survive like protective ward.
3. Joyus Carol is not rubbish. If you ever rubbish talk that skill ill find you and ill kill you. I use it everywhere for pvp because how useful it is.
4. Why the hell are you going as a full support spec sw? This isn't 4.x. You will never outheal a cleric or a chanter. You will be at the bottom and be a waste of a spot in group.
5. The #1 chanter NA Meerkat can outheal tryhard clerics without even trying. Chanters are busted right now. And no, Chanter Chanter is a bad idea. 

Source: 

 

Why is r a p e allowed on this forum?

[GenericUser2493]

look I think the company are trying to take it off all healing off chanter and SW cuz from them we are not support anymore, we are DPS you gotta that dude? we are not healer anymore counter is much more like a glad what doesn't have aoe dps  and SW it's much more like a sor and that's nothing we can do 'bout it, that's really, really annoying and sad at the same time.

[GenericUser25022]

I dont agree at all with this. Making chanter or sw heal as much as cleric will just make cleric useless, since chanter and sw buff the group dmg, while clerics dont. It will become just like Tera, where for a long ass time nobody invited Priests because Mystics could provide the same heal plus dmg buffs to the party. 

The way its right now its the best. Sw focus more on mana drain, chanter on buffs and being the 2nd support and cleric the main healer. Cant be done better than it.

[Hakumix-KT]

Cleric has group dispels and more group heals then chanter and songweaver if you exclude daevonian skills.

[Heuo-DN]

I remember in IS 4.x days, I would solo heal on SW, it was fun.

Sorry but Cleric in this game is supposed to the only main healer. If you want to heal on your sw/chanter for fun, you can still do that, just not instances like PF/IDD.

[Helcore-KT]

On 29.11.2018 at 0:16 AM, Leolf-KT said:

Isn't another Cleric a better support for the main cleric than Chanter and Songweaver? Cleric + Cleric >>>>> Cleric + Chanter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cleric + Song, for survival.

No. I'm not even guessing, I'm pretty sure that u do not understand proc's n con's of any of this classes, if u have this question, sorry.

To tell u the truth - forget about full heal SW or chanters. Their heal skills will be nerfed alot in 6.5.

And dont think that clerics not paying much as support class - starting with a priority target in pvp finishing with a huge amount of sets to play and low dps on support.

I do not mind to have a cleric in 2 gear sets (pve+pvp), with instant-ress, with mana-refills, with CC, with mana burn skills, with dispel, with silence, with heals and with buffs. Im sure u do not think that this will be too OP if ull have additional healing options like a cleric, no?

Going for 7.0, sw will get boost on heal for 20% to 1 skill.

[PuppyLove-KT]

i support this post. i also want other class option that can be considered as a healer/group healer aside from cleric.  we should have atleast another class like that, closest is the SW but it lacks heal/group heals even if you pump up manastones etc. 

and No. I dont want SWs to replace cleric - because that is not happening. i just want a viable option that can be considered as a full ass healer for a group - aside from cleric. 

no mention of any class being useless because of this "dream overhaul" for SW.

[GenericUser485]

IDK who you guys have been playing with but chanter heals with the AOE heal is at least equally as strong as cleric heals.  We're just missing group dispel and rezes, but this was about healing.

[Valse-KT]

Chanter daevanian skill can solo heal a lot.

But even without daevanian skills, both Chanters and Songweavers have a lot of utility.  Chanters provide buffs (obviously) and boost overall team damage by a significant amount.  They also deal a reasonable amount of damage and they're the only class that uses physical chain so there's no harm in taking them.  Songweavers heal mana and have a lot of individual dps.  Songweavers also have SoD while Chanters have WoW which are really good in group combat.  Considering most of the instances this patch are just dps races, it's much better to have Cleric-Chanter or Cleric-Songweaver.

[Lapis-DN]

The OP must be playing another game rather than Aion 6.2

Chanters can solo heal any content on this patch if you have Rejuvanating Spell and a simple CoE Healing Boost set.
Even Primeth can be done without clerics IF your group can win the accuracy x evasion/MR wall on Frigida's stats.

 

Overall Chanters are broken beyond words in this patch: timed dispel, OP spammable group heal, massive DPS in a very low cooldown basis, OP shields

 

They will nerf the class a bit in 6.5, most the dps part, but chanters will still run fine on everything

[Eshilia-KT]

Uhm, I will drop this for you, maybe you have quitted this shit game alike a lot of ppl, but ig it’s ok since the post has been brought alive back, thus I will hand you out this exclusive bard guide coming from a NA top songweaver, #1 in EK (back then when this was alive, I’m playing bdo now lmfao). Anyway it’s kinda cringey having  an ego in this dead game, relevant players quitted at its most (Skill-wise), now it’s only a gear race.

My gear: 1:31 (That’s the best it got to look, in other clips when I wasn’t 4* it was way worse lol, it’s mixed;  (reds n purples pve and pvp yellows and purple neck / harp)

How to bard support: 7:23, 12:28, there’s some in the last clip as well.

Anyway, basically when you are a  bard your support playstile will depend on the situation at it’s most, you got 3 ways out, “First step”  [Sleep or  KB / Aeriall or Silence/Bind, (anything that keeps the opponent from hitting your ally, should always be your first aid)] UNLESS a. You are +12m away from your ally that’s being focused b. The opponents are ranged and spreaded. c. If a or b, pop winter, If it’s on cd, chorus. Second step is going to be a healing skill ofc, green stigma heal aka hymn of rejuvenation, (if “c”) [If first step,  winter or chorus, (you should always want to save chorus if there’s a sm or sorcerer for cleansing fear / sleep tho, so unless you are very forced to, hold it)] then just spam your healing skill and repeat the algorithm when your cds are back. KNOW that a good offensive>defense so once you are backed up and you are ready to nuke just stop at second or even first step and do it, (If you stopped at first just get your m8 back on track asap once you nuke the dude, if you fail and you aren’t able to heal him, just sacrifice him, try to cc and res him up asap)

That’s p much it, if you want to learn how to execute bard at 1v1s or 1vsmultiples you might as well dig into my videos since i can’t really explain it, (it would be so lengthy and situations change regarding classes) valkie and axon are pretty descent songweavers aswell and they have some videos, sadly I can’t think of an other remarkable songweaver in NA ?

Good luck 

[Voluptas-KT]

I asked a similar question back when I mained chanter. I think OP wants a few different 'healing classes' to choose from, similar to how you can have flexibility in choosing rdps sw vs sorc vs sm, or mdps glad vs temp vs sin, OP wants to be able to choose "main healer" cleric vs SW vs chanter.

Unfortunately, Aion is not that type of game. The other games that do this force change the entire class's skillbook when you "main" a healing spec. 75%-90% of your hotkeys and skills are changed to reflect a pure healing class. Translated in Aion terms, does NOT include just stigmas. So your normal rotation in skillbook are different as well. Aion won't reinvent the way 2 classes are just so they can give them a full heal spec. For them to able to do that, stigmas would have to be removed completely, and when you 'respec', half your skills would disappear when you 'spec' into healer to reflect healer hotkeys.

As an example if Aion were to be able to do this, I'm guessing they'd have to do something like this:
-nerf: Pulse damage, song of earth dmg, song of fire dmg, nerf etude HP buff, dance off to be 1-2 CC instead of group CC
-remove: bright stroke, fiery descant, fluttered note, song of ice, symphony of destruction, syncopated echo
-buff: hymn of rejuvenation to be AoE heal, joyous carol to be AoE heal
..something along those lines as an example. (disclaimer I don't play SW, I'm purely using this as an example, so yea things may seem wonky)

And even then, they'd have to think of why the SW vs cleric vs chanter would be different from each other but still be balanced. Right now, chanters and SW have things that clerics do not have. If given as strong healing as clerics, something would have to be taken away. All of the SW CCs, all of the chanter's buffs, etc. Other games have shield healing, hot healing, and nuke healing. If Aion were to change this, I'd assume something along the route of clerics being straight up healers, chanters being HoT healers, and SW being 'shield' healers, healing by preventing damage before it happens. Again, this would involve reinventing two classes entirely. Something I don't think they're willing to spend resources to do because they're happy with having 1 main healer and 2 'support' classes.

Aion revolves around stigmas, and seems to like chanters and SW being a "support" class. They were never meant to be a 'full healing' class, and if you want to full heal, you're better off changing to cleric like I did. It was hard to choose between a support buffer, CCer or pure healer, but to me, think about what you enjoy doing the most. To me, healing was the most fun, instead of being a dps that can "buff and maybe heal" or a dps who can "support" by CCing, and I ended up rerolling.