Roll back

[Vessttemona-KT]

On 16/4/2019 at 2:44 PM, Matsukamy-KT said:

Technically speaking, NC is not earning any money with the music and maps they already removed from the game.

Wrong, since you can still find the OST in digital stores, and you would have to pay for them to be able to own them, and maybe you do not understand what the concept of copyright is, but that means that using any product (whatever it is) without the author's consent, either in writing or by word, is a violation of its personal right as owner of such product, and therefore there are international laws that protect those rights.

[Matsukamy-KT]

3 hours ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

Wrong, since you can still find the OST in digital stores, and you would have to pay for them to be able to own them, and maybe you do not understand what the concept of copyright is, but that means that using any product (whatever it is) without the author's consent, either in writing or by word, is a violation of its personal right as owner of such product, and therefore there are international laws that protect those rights.

What I meant is that Nc is not earning money with the gaming experience that is not there anymore.

And all the music is on youtube for free. I have all the OST on my pc. 

And thanks for the lesson on what copyright is. I would never know.

[Aly-DN]

2 hours ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

What I meant is that Nc is not earning money with the gaming experience that is not there anymore.

And all the music is on youtube for free. I have all the OST on my pc. 

And thanks for the lesson on what copyright is. I would never know.

So since NCSoft isn't using the areas they created and the music and voice overs that they contracted.. anyone that wishes to is free to steal it?

If I haven't used my BBQ in awhile, does that mean it's okay for someone else to steal it?

[Matsukamy-KT]

4 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

So since NCSoft isn't using the areas they created and the music and voice overs that they contracted.. anyone that wishes to is free to steal it?

If I haven't used my BBQ in awhile, does that mean it's okay for someone else to steal it?

Stealling is kinda wording that doesn't work really in this case. They are not really taking anything from the artists themselves, different from the BBQ case, where it doesn't involve mechanical copying of virtual stuff. In anyway, the only argument in the legal sense that would work is that the private servers might hurt the commercialization of the original product,(and even that is arguable) otherwise, the private servers do not offer the exact same experience.

[Cheesecake-DN]

Trying to figure out how we got here, lol.

 

Short summary: They're not rolling back, and still no "classic" server in Korea, so it's highly unlikely we'll get one here. If you want any old-school Aion experience, you have to chance it with things that could get C&D'd at any time if NCsoft chooses to pursue action against the owners of "things."

Just don't use the same account credentials for that other thing that you use anywhere else. Seriously. Be smarter than the average bear.

[Aly-DN]

1 hour ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Stealling is kinda wording that doesn't work really in this case. They are not really taking anything from the artists themselves, different from the BBQ case, where it doesn't involve mechanical copying of virtual stuff. In anyway, the only argument in the legal sense that would work is that the private servers might hurt the commercialization of the original product,(and even that is arguable) otherwise, the private servers do not offer the exact same experience.

I don't understand how anyone doesn't see stealing a game as actually stealing.

If I post a picture I created on Deviantart and you take it without asking me and put it on coffee mugs that you sell, you are stealing from me. Doesn't matter if I was using my picture or selling it or putting it on coffee mugs that I was also selling. Doesn't matter if I used to sell items with that picture and don't any more. It's my picture. My product. And you can't use it without my permission. 

[Matsukamy-KT]

59 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

I don't understand how anyone doesn't see stealing a game as actually stealing.

If I post a picture I created on Deviantart and you take it without asking me and put it on coffee mugs that you sell, you are stealing from me. 

No, I'm not stealing it. I'm copying it. 2 Different things. There are laws that try to protect profit earning from art for a limited time, yes, but copying is copying. That is why there is fair use, and the main argument is, I CAN use your stuff if I modify it enough to make it my own, and it doesn't hurt the commercialization of your product, that is, people buy from me instead of you.

EDIT: Another example is, I can use your music for me if it's only a few seconds of it.

 

[Aly-DN]

Wow.

[GenericUser25154]

1 hour ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

No, I'm not stealing it. I'm copying it. 2 Different things. There are laws that try to protect profit earning from art for a limited time, yes, but copying is copying. That is why there is fair use, and the main argument is, I CAN use your stuff if I modify it enough to make it my own, and it doesn't hurt the commercialization of your product, that is, people buy from me instead of you.

EDIT: Another example is, I can use your music for me if it's only a few seconds of it.

 

You made me login just to ask what the hell are you smoking? I want some. Must be very good stuff.

[Matsukamy-KT]

30 minutes ago, Konkers-EK said:

You made me login just to ask what the hell are you smoking? I want some. Must be very good stuff.

I'm not smoking anything, what I just said is entirely truth. 

[Timmain-KT]

But...it's not? If you use even a piece of someone else's song/artwork/etc, there are usually royalties, permissions, and other things involved. Copying someone else's work, even if you modify it, is heavily frowned upon, and some artists will legally go after you for it. Especially if you're making money off it. "Fair Use" isn't blanket protection.

Arguing the legality of private servers is stupid, though. They're not legal; the material, assets, and everything is owned and created by NCsoft, even if its not "actively used" in the current version, and NCsoft can issue a Cease & Desist at any time. They own the product and everything about it.

I, personally, don't care if you play on one, and, if you want to play past versions of Aion, that's the only way you're going to get to do it. By and large, I don't think NCsoft cares about Aion private servers the way Blizzard really didn't care about private classic servers until they decided they wanted to launch WoW Classic themselves, but they do legally own all the rights to the game, not the owner of the private server who "copied" the game (even if the owner of the private server modified it).

I'm really not sure why we're arguing this in the first place. Really, the number of shits I could give about people playing private servers, especially for Aion 1.9/3.7/4.7, is quite low. Hell, I played on a popular one back in 1.7 for a short while to try out the endgame with how painful leveling and gearing was in retail.

 

 

But they're still not legal, and, to reiterate, NCsoft could use legal force to have them shut down at any time, if they wanted to.

[Matsukamy-KT]

Quote

But...it's not? If you use even a piece of someone else's song/artwork/etc, there are usually royalties, permissions, and other things involved. Copying someone else's work, even if you modify it, is heavily frowned upon, and some artists will legally go after you for it. Especially if you're making money off it. "Fair Use" isn't blanket protection.

Never said it was blanket protection. The incentive for the artist to go after legally is in general, if the person is hurting his profitability. 

Quote

Arguing the legality of private servers is stupid, though.

I was not arguing nothing of the sort, either. 

Quote

I, personally, don't care if you play on one, and, if you want to play past versions of Aion, that's the only way you're going to get to do it.

I don't play or intend to play Aion or  a private server. In fact this is the last of this type of game I play. I don't think this kind of game have a future in the gaming industry.

[2s105714-DN]

You guys don't really get it how these things work. 

Playing on private server for free or on official for free is not the same thing. Official servers need f2p players just as much as paying players. The majority don't pay but they help keeping the game alive with their activities. Without them there wouldn't be many pve or pvp instances runs, healthy economy or sieges. Just a small example, those f2p players are the ones farming stuff to sell on broker, stuff that paying players have no time for it but they pay with their money to buy from broker. Paying players need targets in open world or sieges. If you don't pay it doesn't mean you're not contributing. It is motivating the paying players to keep paying.

Another thing is, you might be surprised but private servers didn't steal anything. No artwork, no music, nothing from NC. This is why they get don't get sanctioned. Last time that NC, with the help of FBI, closed some servers was in the case of some Lineage II servers that had stolen files from NC. That happened about ten years ago or so when server files got leaked. In the case of our current Aion pirate servers, the whole server side is built by individuals who put in their own work to emulate the servers. All the artwork, all the music, all the content you see is on client side, downloaded by the player. Nothing like this is on server side, only login, calculation, responses and so on. This is the main reason these servers are still up, because technically it's proprietary software written by individuals that are not part of NC and have no such files from them. The client is also free to download by anyone. On the other hand, modifying the client to connect to these servers, that is the real violation of contract. That is the only way to stop these servers, by going after individuals who modified their client. The thing is, good luck with that hunt!

Another thing to mention is that the artists already got paid by NC and all the artwork, music you see is NC proprietary. Remember this?

 

[Sjofn-KT]

roll back to when lv cap was 60 , add 1 pvp map with camps that give ap and medals.. a good map

[Vessttemona-KT]

Guy

It does not matter what you say or think, it does not matter if you downloaded it or obtained it by another means without the counsent of the owner, its still stealing, ask any lawyer.

I once knew a guy who used to work in Microsoft Latin America legal department and ask him once why didnt take acctions agains the peope who owns an illegal copy of windows or office, and what he told me was many of the companies that are victims of piracy decide not to take legal action against these people since they could not pay the losses caused by their actions, which of course they would end up going to jail, but these companies would not only not receive the lost money, but also they would also be losing money when performing these legal actions.

it might not be the case for NCWest, but it's the reference I have.

[Matsukamy-KT]

21 minutes ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

Guy

It does not matter what you say or think, it does not matter if you downloaded it or obtained it by another means without the counsent of the owner, its still stealing, ask any lawyer.

I once knew a guy who used to work in Microsoft Latin America legal department and ask him once why didnt take acctions agains the peope who owns an illegal copy of windows or office, and what he told me was many of the companies that are victims of piracy decide not to take legal action against these people since they could not pay the losses caused by their actions, which of course they would end up going to jail, but these companies would not only not receive the lost money, but also they would also be losing money when performing these legal actions.

it might not be the case for NCWest, but it's the reference I have.

That's because IP laws that we currently use in most countries were created more than 2 centuries ago, and are simply not realisticly applicable in the current digital world. 

Still, copying is not, and never will be stealing. Microsoft themselves "stole" a lot of stuff, so lol at them.

[Cheesecake-DN]

http://highpulp.com/2016/copy-steal/

 

 

At my college, if you copy someone's work (literary, artistic, musical, etc) and try to claim it as yours or otherwise use it without permission, you receive an automatic F for the course with the possibility of being expelled from the school.

[Neleth-KT]

Yes private servers are stealing the work but do I care ? Hell no.Since the company never listen to us about BCM,bugs,transparent scrolls,skins and everything.

The reason the private server can be born because NC and some people refused players base that want classic server.
They've been told by those people to go play p server so what to complain?

[Aly-DN]

The reason pirated servers exist is because people want to make money without doing any work. Why develop your own game when you can steal someone else's, rent a server and make 100% profit from the "donations"? 

I love how flexible people's morals are. It's okay to steal from NCSoft because they frequently nyerk us off. By that logic, would it be alright to steal from your corner store because the owner doesn't listen to you and hasn't made repairs to his shop as often as he should have?

The reason there isn't a classic server is that we don't have the player base here for that. Opening a classic server here would be nothing but a cash grab and would in no way contribute to the health of the game. (Just like the opening of EK. Cash grab that ultimately will hurt this player base.) Not opening a classic server is the single smartest thing that NCWest has done lately. 

Who exactly at NCWest told you, @Neleth-KT, to go play on a pirated server when you asked for a classic server? Let's be honest. It wasn't anyone and you made that up. Right?

[Neleth-KT]

I can't remember and I have no reason to make that up,If people playing private servers then NCwest should improve themselves not crying like a nyerk asking for sympathy.You should tell how NCwest improve themselves more than ask people not to play on private servers because most if not all don't give a damn about it.

TLDR : I don't care if people playing in offical or private servers they should play in where they happy.

[Kubei-DN]

We know for a fact that Korea's example of opening a classic server ended up with it closing down by being merged when 6.0 hit. Considering that NCWest doesn't care about its playerbase, there's just no point. People launch private servers only because they're nostalgic, happened with NotAion, they ended up closing it down in a matter of few weeks. Right now, even if they're at 6.5, there's no point because playing retail overall is always better.

People need to stop falling into their own nostalgic traps and demand for it to come back. It's not coming back, you need to move on.

[OnlySnow-DN]

...ANYWAY. Left Aion after last screw up. Put up with various changes over the years, but this last one was the final straw. Playing Guild Wars 2 now. Bye!

[Cheesecake-DN]

Guild Wars 2 has been pretty fun lately, not gonna lie.

[Esialeth-KT]

just curious, what are y'all's thoughts on a single-player server for archival purposes? like, copying the server files and using an emulator to play locally. not for profit, not distributed...thoughts?

[Gwin-DN]

This subject does not take anyone anywhere. So it's waste of time, but maybe in a future that are not too far away the NCS resolves to charge some fee for AION to be SINGLE PLAYER and CO-OP with an IP number. So I could play AION with my family or friends after the NCS close this game.