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Yhohan-KT

Broker Bot and Untradeable Items

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Posted (edited)

Since NCSoft has made Kibrium untradeable even between character in the same account, it has been extremely dangerous trading it to other characters inside or outside your own account.

I made a test two days ago to trade some Kibrium from one of my accounts to another. I was able to place a single Kibrium for a reasonable price without it being taken from me.

I proceeded to add the rest and within less than a second they were taken. 

I opened a ticket with our useless NCsoft support, and here is their response:

"Hi there,

I have thoroughly reviewed your request and I can fully understand why you'd like to have your Ancient Kibrium back to your character. However, since the item was legitimately sold in the broker, I'm sorry to inform you that we wont be able to restore it for you. Please note that the Game Support Team is unable to intervene with a player to player transaction. I hope you understand.

Rest assured that we are committed to removing any account breaking the rules from our game.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Regards,

GM Maru
NCSOFT Support Team"

 

I believe it is NCSoft's responsibility to uphold their terms and conditions (applicable sections listed below).

Aion has made extremely difficult (and dangerous) to be able to safely transfer items like these between accounts.

THIS SITUATION has been COMPLETELY caused by Aion, and their lack of vision, and it has gone on long enough.

NCSoft has the ability look at the search history of an account and see what they are doing, and whether or not the account is a bot but they refuse to do it.

Not only does NCSoft refuse to do it, they don't even care enough to return the STOLEN items. What NCSoft is REALLY saying is that OUR TIME DOES NOT MATTER!

It is NOT JUST that a bot is able to get away with this and WE THE PLAYERS have to suffer the consequences of NCSoft's bad programming, lack of vision, and lack of regards for its players.
The hours HOURS and HOURS of OUR TIME WASTED mean NOTHING to NCSoft and ITS support.

It is not only UNFAIR and UNJUST to me and other players, it is IMMORAL that  NCSoft SUPPORT CAN GET AWAY WITH DOING NOTHING. They say they cannot do anything when I KNOW there are logs that can investigated on case by case basis. THEY ARE ABLE to tell that thief account has been searching in the broker (probably for hours) over and over again for specific items to steal.
I KNOW you can tell that as SOON as a target item is put in the broker, that the broker bot yanks it and steals it.

How can a company be so IRRESPONSIBLE and permit THEFT inside its game. The ones that are supposed to POLICE turn a blind eye to the players they are SWORN TO PROTECT by the Terms and Conditions of the game!!!

The people that are supposed to protect us from these things DO NOT CARE about its community. They do not care when someone is violating their Terms and Conditions and DO NOTHING about it. They PUNISHING their community under the pretense that this was a legitimate "Player to Player" transaction when it NOT true!

It DOES NOT MATTER if this was a PLAYER to PLAYER transaction, a BOT stole the ITEMS, and YOU NCSOFT have to do something about it.
YOU NCSOFT cannot allow for SOMEONE to play with people's time and life like this because only YOU NCSoft are able to make a difference. I do not have your code, and I do not have the power to ban bots, kick a player, or research their history but YOU DO. So the responsibility falls on YOU NCSOFT.


You have been allowing this for too long. I am not the only victim of this. While this is happening you sit back IDLE and do NOTHING. NO, enough is enough.

You are violating your terms and conditions by doing nothing. YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY to US THE PLAYERS.

You NCSOFT owe US me the respect WE deserve.

 

 

Your Terms and conditions state the following and should protect us. This is something that GM Maru, and any other NCSoft Support Team member is aiding in violating when they chose to ignore the actions committed by botters such as the Broker Bot.

In case you forgot them, here are some specific ones that apply to this situation. Protect us:

"8. PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING NCSOFT

You acknowledge that You may not, without signed written consent from a legally authorized representative of NCSOFT, do any of the following:

(c) Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. "bot") or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game;

(d) Use, or provide others with, any "hack," "cheat," "exploit" or "mod";

(g) Knowingly affect the Service, the Game or Content via any bloatware, malware, computer virus, worm, Trojan horse, spyware, adware, crimeware, scareware, rootkit or any other program installed in a way that executable code of any program is scheduled to utilize or utilizes processor cycles during periods of time when such program is not directly or indirectly being used;

(h) Be a party to any commercial activity related to the Game, including but not limited to:

(i) providing or obtaining any Item; or

(i) software that reads areas of computer memory or storage devices related to the Game;

(ii) software that intercepts or otherwise collects data from or through the Game;

(iii) software that redirects communications from any Game or Service; or

(iv) software not provided by NCSOFT which creates or maintains any communication to the Game or Service, including but not limited to any software that emulates the Game or any part thereof as well as any server that emulates the Service or any part thereof;"

 

 

 

Edited by Yhohan-KT
typo

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Aly-DN   

How do you know that a bot bought your kib? What do you mean by "reasonable" for the price? Was it the lowest on the broker? Is it possible that a real player just happened to see it and snag it? My point is that you can't know a bot bought the kib. A friend put some kib on the broker in order to trade it from one character to another. He placed it on the broker for the going rate and the quickly tried to buy it on his main character. In the seconds it took to turn to that screen, the kib he sold was gone. So he just bought the kib of another player that was selling it for the exact same amount. He really didn't lose out on anything. He will sell something useless on his main account in order to bring the kinah on the alt account to his main. Perhaps try his method next time.

Here is the thing. The Korean Devs changed the way kinah was handled in the game. I believe that making kinah, white drops and even the crafting mats untradeable is all part of their vision for kinah and wealth in the game. We can only speculate on why they made these changes though I believe it's safe to say they were trying to control inflation and perhaps trying to minimize the importance of alts. You can't expect Support to give you the kib when you chose to use a risky method to try and bypass the systems put in place by the devs of the game.

I think we can all see that you are angry. You are hardly the first person to have something like this happen to. We may all be puzzled by the decisions of the devs and we can ask that the staff here take out feedback back to the devs, we have to either play under the changes or chose not to play at all. Either way all we can do is hope that eventually the devs respond in a positive manner and change how kinah is handled in game.

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Posted (edited)

If you read the post, it was gone instantly... which is an indication of a bot.

And I did not "chose" to use a risky method. It was imposed on us.

Edited by Yhohan-KT

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its a risky mode mate, you could have put it on a normal price, then get the kinah back on ur main by putting sometthing useless for the kinah u just bought it, its simple, they cannot restore ur item since this can be easily exploitable, sadly have to agree with @Aly-DN on this one

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Aly-DN   

And my friend just turned his head and his kib was gone, too. Though the price he put them up for was the exact same as the ones above them. 

I agree with you. That is an indication of a bot, but only if you put the price as lower than the lowest.. since bots are programmed to check for a certain thing at a certain price. It's all about them catching people trying to move something from one account to another for cheap. And you can't be 100% sure that a player just didn't happen to buy it. You think it might be a bot. You aren't sure.

And you did chose. You know that kib can be sold and not traded. You didn't want to sell your kib. You wanted to trade it. So you used the broker (which is for selling and not trading) to circumvent the changes that the devs made. You took a risk and lost. Speaking out against what the devs have put into the game is good and may just push them to making changes. But you can't expect Support to help you when you chose to take a risk to circumvent game changes that you don't like.

 

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You are missing the point of the entire post. I just hope whoever at NCSoft reads it is able to see the extreme frustration this is causing.

My anger towards support is that they are indeed able to see the account activity of the thief account and fix/compensate the player that spent hours upon hours farming while banning the thief. Instead they chose to give the lazy response I got from GM Maru. Enough is enough. 

11 minutes ago, tonton-DN said:

its a risky mode mate, you could have put it on a normal price, then get the kinah back on ur main by putting sometthing useless for the kinah u just bought it, its simple, they cannot restore ur item since this can be easily exploitable, sadly have to agree with @Aly-DN on this one

I should not have to buy my own Kibrium from myself. This is preposterous. The new system is flawed and it should be fixed. This is the point of this post and why I'm calling out NCSoft.

I am not afraid to post what I feel nor do I care about the lack of Vision for whoever gave the directive to make items this way.

It is about time someone spelled it out to the NCSoft directors and developers. This system is hurting the game, and its community.

It is not a matter of agree or disagreeing. It's a matter of doing the right thing. What's wrong with you people? You just bend down and take it. Not in my book.

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Aly-DN   

How do you know they didn't look and didn't see that it was a legit player that was counting themselves lucky on getting a good deal?

Your anger is rather misplaced.

Rather than getting angry, why don't you try the method that most players are using. Sell your kib (or other crafting mats) for the exact same price as the lowest price. You are much more likely to get the kib and if you don't, you can buy someone else's without losing anything.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

How do you know they didn't look and didn't see that it was a legit player that was counting themselves lucky on getting a good deal?

Your anger is rather misplaced.

Rather than getting angry, why don't you try the method that most players are using. Sell your kib (or other crafting mats) for the exact same price as the lowest price. You are much more likely to get the kib and if you don't, you can buy someone else's without losing anything.

It doesn't take a genius to see he just washed his hands and never intended to do anything about it. He categorized it and everything, which means they have a standard way of dealing with this issue, and it has happened more than once.

The way NCSoft support is dealing with this is ALL wrong, and this should be investigated on a case by case basis. Come on @Aly-DN

Edited by Yhohan-KT

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Gabe-DN   
8 minutes ago, Yhohan-KT said:

You are missing the point of the entire post. I just hope whoever at NCSoft reads it is able to see the extreme frustration this is causing.

My anger towards support is that they are indeed able to see the account activity of the thief account and fix/compensate the player that spent hours upon hours farming while banning the thief. Instead they chose to give the lazy response I got from GM Maru. Enough is enough. 

I should not have to buy my own Kibrium from myself. This is preposterous. The new system is flawed and it should be fixed. This is the point of this post and why I'm calling out NCSoft.

I am not afraid to post what I feel nor do I care about the lack of Vision for whoever gave the directive to make items this way.

It is about time someone spelled it out to the NCSoft directors and developers. This system is hurting the game, and its community.

It is not a matter of agree or disagreeing. It's a matter of doing the right thing. What's wrong with you people? You just bend down and take it. Not in my book.

His response was not lazy, it was accurate and right.  You got caught trying to circumvent the broker, got caught and expect compensation?  Are you for real?  All you have are opinions and speculations. 

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Just now, Gabe-DN said:

His response was not lazy, it was accurate and right.  You got caught trying to circumvent the broker, got caught and expect compensation?  Are you for real?  All you have are opinions and speculations. 

That's why this lazy system doesn't change. It's bc even the people whom are being affected are for it. Pathetic.

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Aly-DN   

What did you want him to do? You wanted him to give you the kib, correct? He can't do that. You chose to use the broker to trade things that are untradeable and someone bought the items quicker than you could grab them. That's on -you-. If that Support person had gone off the script that is placed before him and decided that you were right and the devs are wrong. That you should be able to trade things and to help you out he would just give you the kib, then what happens? It would leak out that he did it for you and then he would have to do it for everyone. People would be angry that it wasn't done for them in the past.

Do you recall what happened a Support person agreed with a player that he had worked and paid a lot for his compensation gear and since he wasn't going to use it and was going to play on EK that it would be the right thing to do to just move that compensation gear over to his new main on EK? THAT's what happens when Support breaks the clear rules sent out for them by the team and by the devs.

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1 minute ago, Aly-DN said:

What did you want him to do? You wanted him to give you the kib, correct? He can't do that. You chose to use the broker to trade things that are untradeable and someone bought the items quicker than you could grab them. That's on -you-. If that Support person had gone off the script that is placed before him and decided that you were right and the devs are wrong. That you should be able to trade things and to help you out he would just give you the kib, then what happens? It would leak out that he did it for you and then he would have to do it for everyone. People would be angry that it wasn't done for them in the past.

Do you recall what happened a Support person agreed with a player that he had worked and paid a lot for his compensation gear and since he wasn't going to use it and was going to play on EK that it would be the right thing to do to just move that compensation gear over to his new main on EK? THAT's what happens when Support breaks the clear rules sent out for them by the team and by the devs.

What's keeping him from taking it from whoever stole it (if using broker bot) and giving it back? The right thing is to do just that. If he's not allowed then he should be.

Everyone needs to speak up about this issue rather than defend the behavior of support/developers and those in charge of this game.

The way things are right now is incorrect. It hurts the players, and the community. 

For those who say I should but it for the same price and buy it from my other account, then what's the point of farming it Not every class can make the $$$ necessary to do such thing. It is much easier to farm from certain classes than other which makes it unfair as whole. Again the right thing should be done in this situation. 
 

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i don't understand why people have the need to buy THE SAME kibrium they are selling.

Just put the kibrium there for the broker price, buy with another toon any kibrium for the same price.

What you need to do is pass the kinah with an worthless item, which is 100% safe, unless someone wants to buy ancient guiding for 50M.

If it's about something unique like an ultimate crafted gear, I can understand, but when it comes to regular items, this is simply non issue.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

i don't understand why people have the need to buy THE SAME kibrium they are selling.

Just put the kibrium there for the broker price, buy with another toon any kibrium for the same price.

What you need to do is pass the kinah with an worthless item, which is 100% safe, unless someone wants to buy ancient guiding for 50M.

If it's about something unique like an ultimate crafted gear, I can understand, but when it comes to regular items, this is simply non issue.

AHA! But this does require for the original account to have total amount of money that the Kibrium will cost to pass it to the account you are sending the Kibrium to, and then when you buy the Kib from the other account you get the kinah back.

This is a plausible temporary solution to this issue trading issue. You will lose some Kinah on broker fees.

Still I do believe this issue should be fixed although I will use the above method the next time I farm Kib and I need to trade. First I gotta make the Kinah now which means I will have to legitimately sell the Kibrium to make the Kinah to send to the other account.

Edited by Yhohan-KT

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I hear your pain.  I'm all for bringing back the personal store, making many items trade-able that are not now as well as Kinah.  I have experienced this too where I have my crafting skill up high and can craft ultimate gear.  My wife plays Aion as well (just not as much) and does not have her crafting level up so I make her Ultimate Masterwork gear (which is not easy anyway due to poor proc rate and expensive).   In my case,  one item I made for her was a ultimate masterwork mystic plume.  I have her wait right at the broker searching for it and put it on there for like 2 kinah.  Immediately someone bought it (couldn't have been more than 1 second).   Thing is though I saw it for sale on the broker the very next day by someone who plus it up (I could tell it was my because it shows who made it) just a little and was selling it for 50,000,000 kinah.   I did not open a ticket on this because it is the risk and although my wife and I were pissed I did not think they would do a thing so didn't bother even asking them.  I even couldn't yell at the guy who bought it and resale it cuz hey he may have just been looking and there it was and poof he bought it.  Although he should have clearly known by the price it wasn't intended for him I can't really blame him for scooping it up.

YES AION YOU NEED TO MAKE MORE THINGS (MANY MORE) Items tradeable and bring back the personal store and let us trade kinah again.   It was downright mean of you to take all of that away in your 6.0 upgrade which was suppose to be better than the previous release.  But hey the economy in 5.8 was so much better in this nasty 6.x one as this aspect of the game really sucks.

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Posted (edited)

TL;DR OP knew the risk of trying to trade things for dirt cheap on broker. He took it anyways. And when it didn't work out in his favor, he cries for compensation and for GM to do something about it. And when that didn't work out for him, he decries the whole trading system in a last ditch effort to vent his own mistakes, risk and carelessness, as some sort of valid argument against it--even though the entire post was just some weird legal terms excerpt that has nothing to do with the easily farmable kibs he's having a meltdown over. And when people try to tell him it's his own fault, he then turns to blaming them for being idle bystanders. Case solved & closed.

Edited by SevenLions-KT

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50 minutes ago, HeartStrings-DN said:

Although he should have clearly known by the price it wasn't intended for him I can't really blame him for scooping it up.

I can. I have seen an item for super cheap on the broker. It was clear to me that it was someone trying to give it to an alt/friend, so I left it alone. Because that's the decent thing to do -- especially in this stupid game that actively works against us in various ways. No, there's nothing we can do about it if someone scoops up our cheap broker items, and yes, it's a risk we take knowingly. However, we don't have to give people a free pass for being greedy about things that aren't theirs. There was someone on the Facebook Danaria page basically bragging about snagging cheap broker items from people. Like bro, why you bragging about being a piece of shit? Anyway, I digress.

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It's frustrating to lose items while using the broker to trade, I've done the trading and lost 100 ancient kibrium to broker bots, and I did some testing and since then I haven't had an issue with losing my stuff. If you place the items for around 10k you won't have any issues. That's how I do it. if you place the items for amounts ranging from 10k, your trade should be fine unless you are unlucky and someone is lucky enough to be searching and finds your items. You can try this out but proceed with caution.

I understand the reason why people would try to trade items with a low price since my RNG for enchanting and Tuning is pretty bad, so I tend to go from a lot of Kinah to no Kinah in no time D:

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Cyan   

Hi everyone, 

Just to jump in here quickly. We know that this sort of thing is hard to identify, but if you know of any characteristics or have any other information on how these bots work please reach out to me or submit a ticket and we will have a look. 

Thank you.

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11 minutes ago, Cyan said:

Hi everyone, 

Just to jump in here quickly. We know that this sort of thing is hard to identify, but if you know of any characteristics or have any other information on how these bots work please reach out to me or submit a ticket and we will have a look. 

Thank you.

Hi, would it not be easier to make items used in crafting able to be traded instead of hunting down people with knowledge of bots, then trying to counteract them somehow?

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Cyan   
Just now, Kingofsexy-DN said:

Hi, would it not be easier to make items used in crafting able to be traded instead of hunting down people with knowledge of bots, then trying to counteract them somehow?

This is a possibility, and we've been in discussion with the dev team about changing items to be account bound, etc but they are unable to change many items for various reasons. We'll keep sending the feedback, but in the meantime we will try and stop it from happening the best we can.

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On 5/15/2019 at 2:07 PM, Vantheria-DN said:

I can. I have seen an item for super cheap on the broker. It was clear to me that it was someone trying to give it to an alt/friend, so I left it alone. Because that's the decent thing to do -- especially in this stupid game that actively works against us in various ways. No, there's nothing we can do about it if someone scoops up our cheap broker items, and yes, it's a risk we take knowingly. However, we don't have to give people a free pass for being greedy about things that aren't theirs. There was someone on the Facebook Danaria page basically bragging about snagging cheap broker items from people. Like bro, why you bragging about being a piece of shit? Anyway, I digress.

It happened to me when I was trying to trade my 2 shugo scrolls to my main and I put it up for 1 Luna each...

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8 hours ago, Itsumi-DN said:

It happened to me when I was trying to trade my 2 shugo scrolls to my main and I put it up for 1 Luna each...

Sorry, bud. It's a crappy feeling. :(

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Gabe-DN   
16 hours ago, Cyan said:

Hi everyone, 

Just to jump in here quickly. We know that this sort of thing is hard to identify, but if you know of any characteristics or have any other information on how these bots work please reach out to me or submit a ticket and we will have a look. 

Thank you.

I bet support just loves you, you basically condone these morons circumventing the broker and now you are telling them to submit tickets for their items getting stolen.  We are going to start investigating and banning people for buying cheap stuff off the broker?   They shouldn't have to file a ticket on people who just randomly stand AFK at the broker for hours upon a time, it is pretty easy to identify.

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Aly-DN   
41 minutes ago, Gabe-DN said:

I bet support just loves you, you basically condone these morons circumventing the broker and now you are telling them to submit tickets for their items getting stolen.  We are going to start investigating and banning people for buying cheap stuff off the broker?   They shouldn't have to file a ticket on people who just randomly stand AFK at the broker for hours upon a time, it is pretty easy to identify.

I don't believe that @Cyan was saying that people can submit tickets to get their items returned to them if they suspect that a bot bought them. He said that if people have information on broker bots that they should submit a ticket or reach out to him so that they can look into how these broker bots operate.  

Aion is full of hacks and bots and other game play that are completely against the rules of the game. We know this. We live with this. (Most gamers do, actually.) You may see the same bot farming the same area for months and even though you report them over and over.. nothing is done. You may see the same character name (shjdfhjksdnswhuwhdsj-KT) selling hundreds of guiding stones every week and you just know this is a bot.. and nothing is done. You may come against the same garbage gunner who manages to use all their skills on you in 1 second and you send in video and logs and detailed explanations how this is impossible without the use of hacks.. and nothing is done. Hell. You even have players -bragging- on social media how they hack and how they will never be banned. This is our game life. It's what we live with. So rather than being surprised and railing against something like a broker bot, it just seems so much more efficient to take steps to protect ourselves. Don't sell things for 1 kinah! Sell and buy things at the going rate and then transfer the kinah back to your character by selling something useless for a high amount. You lose the broker fees and that sucks, but it's better than having your item bought by a bot.. or a legit player.

As for legit players seeing a "deal" and scooping it up, what can you do? It's human nature to grab at free (or almost free) stuff. I can't blame someone who sees Shugo reset scrolls for 1 kinah and buys them. I can't blame someone that sees an ultimate crafted weapon for 10 kinah and buys it. Even though they know 100% in their hearts that that was someone trying to transfer that item to their alt. Temptation is a powerful thing. And tbh, it has been going on since the beginning of the game. I don't think there are any old timers that can't relate to putting something expensive on the broker and leaving out a 0. (i.e. selling a million kinah item for 100,000 kinah) You hit sell and then in a panic try and bring it down.. only to find someone had already snapped it up.. and this is long before there were broker bots! It happens. It sucks, but it taught us to be so so so very careful when placing things on the broker. Which is something we should be now.

@Vantheria-DN you are a really good person. You play the game totally clean and you treat others as you would like to be treated. That's really great. But everyone isn't you, as much as we would like that to be true. And I really can't blame someone for not being you. That isn't a slight to you. It just isn't a slight to them either. 

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