What a Shame

[Unskilled-KT]

I kind of refused to believe that sorc is so shitty starting from 6.2, but recently already accepted the fact and want to say 'Thanks' to NCSoft. In addition, big 'thanks' to NCWest for nerfing cast speed on transformations to make it even more and the most shittier class to play. Clap-clap.

 

 

[Hellish-DN]

Sorry but you’re incorrect lol. NCsoft did slightly lower the cast times on some transformations, but more than made up for it by increasing the run speed on these transforms, which is way more important in pvp. Plus with the chanter OJ buff, it’s reduced cast times even more for pve.

 

plus if you have a gold xform, your cast speed is already higher than it was in 5.8. Max on gloves was 9%, scroll was 9% so even 18% cast speeds are better.

[Unskilled-KT]

39 minutes ago, Hellish-DN said:

Sorry but you’re incorrect lol. NCsoft did slightly lower the cast times on some transformations, but more than made up for it by increasing the run speed on these transforms, which is way more important in pvp. Plus with the chanter OJ buff, it’s reduced cast times even more for pve.

 

plus if you have a gold xform, your cast speed is already higher than it was in 5.8. Max on gloves was 9%, scroll was 9% so even 18% cast speeds are better.

Sin is talking about the sorc gameplay in the new patch  

[Arhangelos]

On 21/5/2019 at 5:29 PM, Unskilled-KT said:

I kind of refused to believe that sorc is so shitty starting from 6.2, but recently already accepted the fact and want to say 'Thanks' to NCSoft. In addition, big 'thanks' to NCWest for nerfing cast speed on transformations to make it even more and the most shittier class to play. Clap-clap.

Sorcs are walking dummies, many classes are on perma attack speed, some of them use animation hacks and we have some of the slowest casting skills in game. our sleep base c.time is so long that before you can cast it you will probably die. If anyone wants to play a nuker go with AT, gladiator, Archer or assassin, these are the real nukers in game and they are super hard to kill.

[GenericUser33899]

Yeah I don't really enjoy solo pvp as a sorc, group pvp is fine. At times it does feel like anything sorc does another class could do it better but we don't have to be meta slaves, if you enjoy playing sorc that matters more for me.

Also since most of aion pvp is about gear, if you are more geared than your enemy you will destroy them easily but that's not so fun to me. 

[Matsukamy-KT]

I dont' know, if you look at naengpa youtube channel, it seems that sorc is still pretty decent. 

They are not SMs, for sure, but still good.

[GenericUser34531]

Templar is worst, no silence, no bind, the lowest dps, we are melee but anomos don't wanna drop red greatswords nor swords and the buffs are very nerfed.

We just have more hp and that's all.

Don't feel bad sorcerers, there are more people that know how you are and even more.

 

[Pandoris-KT]

lets just say this,  before if I see other class in the open map I might choose to fight,  now if I see any class I RUN!! ,  please tell me which class can sorc  1v1 with equal gear and win nowadays?   GG sorc.  just reroll Painter for next patch.

[catsu-KT]

3 hours ago, Pandoris-KT said:

lets just say this,  before if I see other class in the open map I might choose to fight,  now if I see any class I RUN!! ,  please tell me which class can sorc  1v1 with equal gear and win nowadays?   GG sorc.  just reroll Painter for next patch.

Quite a few if equal gear translates into purple xform and red weap(since they really need that cast speed).
There's no such thing as equal gear equal skill equal ping in any game, find better excuse. Sorc scales very late game and is shit w/ what you call "average" gear. Just like sin was b4 last patch.
Main issue w/ clothies is that they have to cast CC b4 they can do some dmg, have to always fear or sleep else you get slapped. In the meantime xxxgoodplayer1xxx has already CC'ed you, w/ his instant skill, at speed cap

[Rapier-DN]

2 hours ago, catsu-KT said:

Quite a few if equal gear translates into purple xform and red weap(since they really need that cast speed).
There's no such thing as equal gear equal skill equal ping in any game, find better excuse. Sorc scales very late game and is shit w/ what you call "average" gear. Just like sin was b4 last patch.
Main issue w/ clothies is that they have to cast CC b4 they can do some dmg, have to always fear or sleep else you get slapped. In the meantime xxxgoodplayer1xxx has already CC'ed you, w/ his instant skill, at speed cap

I would agree with comment about sorcs really being punching bags unless they are quite geared - full legendary PVP will still result in a miserable experience.

However - Pandoris  wasn't even saying equal gear equal skill equal ping.

You simply cannot even saying "oh well all clothies must fear or cc before they can do some damage".  No - they don't. They're not even remotely on the same footing, when an SM (for example) can use physically slow anyone (without self-dispel) plus strip buffs plus silence plus bind... and almost all without cast speed. Being slowed, debuffed and having your cast/attack speed reduced is such a big impediment in itself, even if you don't throw dots- that fear is just an almost "I-win" - and of course- fear doesn't reduce your damage.

Let's compare that to a sorc- yes that can slow- not as well, but no way to reduce cast/attack speed and only silence- no bind  (yet). If they CC- extra bonus- damage is reduced. Plus very few instant  or low-cast time skills. Basically all of this to say that one mistake as a sorc usually means that you lose , and even with no mistakes you may not win since your gear has to be so good . It is not at all forgiving.

 

[catsu-KT]

5 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

I would agree with comment about sorcs really being punching bags unless they are quite geared - full legendary PVP will still result in a miserable experience.

However - Pandoris  wasn't even saying equal gear equal skill equal ping.

You simply cannot even saying "oh well all clothies must fear or cc before they can do some damage".  No - they don't. They're not even remotely on the same footing, when an SM (for example) can use physically slow anyone (without self-dispel) plus strip buffs plus silence plus bind... and almost all without cast speed. Being slowed, debuffed and having your cast/attack speed reduced is such a big impediment in itself, even if you don't throw dots- that fear is just an almost "I-win" - and of course- fear doesn't reduce your damage.

Let's compare that to a sorc- yes that can slow- not as well, but no way to reduce cast/attack speed and only silence- no bind  (yet). If they CC- extra bonus- damage is reduced. Plus very few instant  or low-cast time skills. Basically all of this to say that one mistake as a sorc usually means that you lose , and even with no mistakes you may not win since your gear has to be so good . It is not at all forgiving.

 

You will get shit on if you aren't at least decent on sorc, you will misuse debuffs and fail to CC chain your enemy, gear w/o skill or at least decent ping wont make you any better, play ranger if you want to do that(which kinda plays out as a caster tbh, interesting game design)

The archetype remains the same. Both will CC chain you to death if you allow them to, both will die easily if you get close to them, both suffer in opposite areas. Then there's SW, which is a ??? class. What even is it good at other than being annoying and jumping around like a rabbit

Sorc has higher dmg, enough CC to chain it, more blinks, much higher skill cap(on par w/ clerics imo), is less forgiving and has shit base stats and no self baffs and has long cast times(unless you put magic rush on your skillbar, which you should).
SM has average(?) dmg, no brain CC, can make really good use of attack speed, a lot of tools to take the control over the fight and overall easier to play and easier to gear. Spirit's empowerment solves all the issues sorc has(hp, attack stats, speed).

Neither are supposed to be glass cannons, by the name of it sorc should be but it really isn't, altho it's pretty glassy. SM decreases your m.def while most(if not all) sleeps increase it, but then again that's normal, you can't move while asleep, once it breaks you are still cc'ed.

If it makes no sense just assume w/e, am too sleepy atm

[GenericUser7135]

sorc was, is, will be strong class IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY! 

sorc is one of hardest class to achieve highest skill on it but once you do that sorc is almost top class in food chain, you have to know all classes buff and cool time to be good at it.

watch some korean sorc play and learn. i am sorry but i havent seen any top class sorc in NA aion yet (like how they play sorc in korean server)

there are few you can ask how they play in NA aion players, i know few who is good enough to teach other sorc 

whisper me in game "BEAT"

 

[GenericUser7527]

sorc is the worst class to play this patch if your goal is to win

but that's also what makes it the best class to play... because a win on sorc is a win truly earned 

 

(edit: unless those wins on sorc are because you outgear your opponent to the point where class balance is null... which is honestly more likely bcus this game is hardcore p2w and gear > skill now more than ever before)

 

[Matsukamy-KT]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:38 AM, catsu-KT said:

You will get shit on if you aren't at least decent on sorc, you will misuse debuffs and fail to CC chain your enemy, gear w/o skill or at least decent ping wont make you any better, play ranger if you want to do that(which kinda plays out as a caster tbh, interesting game design)

The archetype remains the same. Both will CC chain you to death if you allow them to, both will die easily if you get close to them, both suffer in opposite areas. Then there's SW, which is a ??? class. What even is it good at other than being annoying and jumping around like a rabbit

Sorc has higher dmg, enough CC to chain it, more blinks, much higher skill cap(on par w/ clerics imo), is less forgiving and has shit base stats and no self baffs and has long cast times(unless you put magic rush on your skillbar, which you should).
SM has average(?) dmg, no brain CC, can make really good use of attack speed, a lot of tools to take the control over the fight and overall easier to play and easier to gear. Spirit's empowerment solves all the issues sorc has(hp, attack stats, speed).

Neither are supposed to be glass cannons, by the name of it sorc should be but it really isn't, altho it's pretty glassy. SM decreases your m.def while most(if not all) sleeps increase it, but then again that's normal, you can't move while asleep, once it breaks you are still cc'ed.

If it makes no sense just assume w/e, am too sleepy atm

Both sorc and SM will slow and stun you on 25m distance. Although not instant stun, true, but they still get the upperhand 1v1 when you are not jumped. That is the truth. The only one that stuns instantly at 25m is the gunner though. Each class bring it's own challenges, but the sorc is really not the worst class. Try to be a sin and kill a glad, chanter, templar or cleric. It's like hitting a wall with your fingers. 

Sorc is really not that recommended for OW pvp if you are not quick witted(I don't know if that is an actual verb). 2 or 3 people crosses your path and you are dead. But the same is true for ranger, for example. 

[Aftershocktwo-DN]

On 6/4/2019 at 11:45 AM, Youmu-EK said:

Templar is worst, no silence, no bind, the lowest dps, we are melee but anomos don't wanna drop red greatswords nor swords and the buffs are very nerfed.

We just have more hp and that's all.

Don't feel bad sorcerers, there are more people that know how you are and even more.

 

Temps can still serve a purpose in group support and have large utility in melee to do so/disrupt as well. They just don't carry dmg anymore

[GenericUser34531]

Sorcerer is more useful in 6v6 than templar:

Sorcerer                                      Templar

2 area sleeps                              1 area bodyguard (10m) and empyrean providence (very very high cd)

2 spameable sleeps                   1 panoply

3 area shocks                             1 frontal area shock and 1 pull (area of 5m)

4 single target shocks               3 single target shocks and 1 pull

boon of iron clad                       area taunt (7m)

spameable teleport                   spameable taunt (20% chance)

spameable silence                      ----------

mega burst 25m range             low dps and melee range (very bad with more than 100 ms and a target walking)

[GenericUser34531]

I forgot to add wintry armor with boon of iron clad.

[Vantheria-DN]

28 minutes ago, Youmu-EK said:

Sorcerer is more useful in 6v6 than templar:

I agree with your points (except sleeps are often awoken by your own groupmates), BUT the main problem you didn't list is that it is much, much easier to kill a sorcerer than a templar. So all of those CCs are ultimately useless if the sorcerer keeps dying.

[Aftershocktwo-DN]

1 hour ago, Youmu-EK said:

Sorcerer is more useful in 6v6 than templar:

Sorcerer                                      Templar

2 area sleeps                              1 area bodyguard (10m) and empyrean providence (very very high cd)

2 spameable sleeps                   1 panoply

3 area shocks                             1 frontal area shock and 1 pull (area of 5m)

4 single target shocks               3 single target shocks and 1 pull

boon of iron clad                       area taunt (7m)

spameable teleport                   spameable taunt (20% chance)

spameable silence                      ----------

mega burst 25m range             low dps and melee range (very bad with more than 100 ms and a target walking)

Good points, good comparison, comp dependent.

I'd make a bunch of comments but that'd be dumb as I've been away too long to have any valid arguments on the validity of Temps in group but quite obviously they serve entirely different rolls. I was a Temp for like five years or something but.... i've been away a long time from Templar.

 

They support, Sorcs can to a degree with utility but not in the same way a Templar does. It used to be EP2x per ID (early pop/late pop) I don't know if that's a good example still, but the CD was more or less negligible at the time.

 

Shields and sleeps are both strong, but BG/Pan aren't as easily disposed of as a slept team-mate (or opponent sometimes...)

Temps can peel and stunlock to help their squishies... plus somewhat useful taunts. But they do not have the same viability in terms of target control that a Sorc does... it's just I can't see a Templar being dealt with as easily as a Sorc.... but who am I to say yet. In GvG Temp burst was important but I found it was my ability to disrupt healers during spike damage, or to peel DPS off my healers that helped the group... plus shields.

 

 

Guess I'll find out soon enough. Anyway, this thread is about Sorcs, not Templars. Sorry!

[Arhangelos]

Our problem is that we play a game where practically most classes are instant skill users while we are solid casters, except some key skills who are instant or chains.

Like the archer for example:
Sorcerer                                     Archer
* Slow Casting sleeps                  Instant sleeps + traps
* (Slow) casting dmg                  Predominantly instant dmg
* Can stun                                 Can stun
* Will run out of MP in              Much lower MP usage
   pvp easily
* Skills get interrupted               Rarely gets interrupted, most skills are instant
  just by getting hit
* Casting silence                         Instant silence
* Buring silence needs                Instant debuffs + instant silence = faster
    more time
*Can't cancel a physical              Has silence and a debuff to double casting time of caster (total anti-sorc)
  class yet (bind)
*Flimsiest class                            Not as flimsy
*Doesn't have an easy win         Is defo anti-sorc and potentially can kill many other classes
against any class
*Doesn't have escape tactic        Hide to take advantage of attack, or hide to evade the fight
  (unless you sleep and then
   use illusion gate to go to
   pandaimonium)

There was a time when classes had a role and it seems Archer is the physical sorcerer only more pvp oriented. A physical class, that can't be silenced and uses all magic skills better than a magic class! Whoever makes the class (in)balance in aion developing team need sot be shot in the foot.

I could make a list for Sorc vs SW but I think it would be too stupid to even compare, when SW is practically a healing, self dispelling sorc that never runs out of mana

[Rapier-DN]

On 6/18/2019 at 3:28 PM, Vantheria-DN said:

I agree with your points (except sleeps are often awoken by your own groupmates), BUT the main problem you didn't list is that it is much, much easier to kill a sorcerer than a templar. So all of those CCs are ultimately useless if the sorcerer keeps dying.

Well put.  That's a BIG advantage. Sorcs need to kite and have excellent situational awareness and even then they may help

 their team more by distracting the other team and CCing, rather than by DPSing- because they are so focused on staying alive.

On 6/18/2019 at 2:59 PM, Youmu-EK said:

Sorcerer is more useful in 6v6 than templar:

Sorcerer                                      Templar

2 area sleeps                              1 area bodyguard (10m) and empyrean providence (very very high cd)

2 spameable sleeps                   1 panoply

3 area shocks                             1 frontal area shock and 1 pull (area of 5m)

4 single target shocks               3 single target shocks and 1 pull

boon of iron clad                       area taunt (7m)

spameable teleport                   spameable taunt (20% chance)

spameable silence                      ----------

mega burst 25m range             low dps and melee range (very bad with more than 100 ms and a target walking)

Incidentally you left out 1 area sleep - there is 1 vision, 1 stigma and 1 DP. You also left out several  areas CCs - snares - such as winterbinding, ice sheet, freeze, etc. Plus debuffs.

[Arhangelos]

On 20/6/2019 at 0:14 AM, Rapier-DN said:

Well put.  That's a BIG advantage. Sorcs need to kite and have excellent situational awareness and even then they may help

 their team more by distracting the other team and CCing, rather than by DPSing- because they are so focused on staying alive.

Incidentally you left out 1 area sleep - there is 1 vision, 1 stigma and 1 DP. You also left out several  areas CCs - snares - such as winterbinding, ice sheet, freeze, etc. Plus debuffs.

...I forgot to add them because the archer has me already silence locked and I am about to die in the next second. Give me another 100 sleeps they won't do much, when the archers starts hitting a sorc, it is almost over. Archer is made to kill a sorc 101, not even need to have a single knowledge of how to pvp in general.

[Vessttemona-KT]

13 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

...I forgot to add them because the archer has me already silence locked and I am about to die in the next second. Give me another 100 sleeps they won't do much, when the archers starts hitting a sorc, it is almost over. Archer is made to kill a sorc 101, not even need to have a single knowledge of how to pvp in general.

dont forget that NC removed Boon of Clairvoyance, our first defence vs a Ranger.

[GenericUser7135]

so stupid even comparing temp vs sorc in group fighting BOTH OF THEM ARE GOOD!

it is depend on so many stuff. this example is just to explain WHY ONLY!

if i have (gladi) SM in my group i rather take temp than sorc because enemy will focus sm and to make sm last long even survive initial burst i rather have Temp BG

if i have no cloth in our group like 2 gladi 1 chan 1 cleric 1 leather i will take sorc for super dmg and cc

THAT IS STUPID TO EVEN ARGUEING WHICH ONE IS BETTER FOR GROUP PVP. sigh this is why EU players making fun of US (NA players) nyerk fight in game not here 

bunch of useless post argue stupid shit like that.

DO RESEARCH!

i feel you who argue about which class better in group pvp are super scrubs srry it is true reading how you guys argue and compare lol

[Voodoodoctor-DN]

I feel that sorc is fine in pvp in the hands of pro players only. By nature, sorcs are like magicians as they require fast reactions to execute the lock down combos. There isn't much margin for error hence why the skill ceiling is higher. 

Skilled sorc pvp is arguably the most enjoying class to watch as it very fast paced with high risk rewarding play, and creativity with unpredictable combos.

In group pvp, a sorcs playstyle is focused on survivability and landing sleeps on key targets rather than full dpsing so it gives the impression that sorcs are 'weak'. 

Overall, sorcs have a high skill ceiling hence most consider it underpowered.