Evergale Canyon Real Update

[MechEagIe-DN]

Those vacation gona be good !

[GenericUser13790]

Seems rich coming from the person who cheats by afking Elyos alts to vs himself in IB, AD and ID

[Aly-DN]

8 hours ago, Idiocracy-KT said:

Seems rich coming from the person who cheats by afking Elyos alts to vs himself in IB, AD and ID

Not condoning the practice, but he isn't hurting anyone else by doing this. And he's paying with luna for the extra runs.

What was happening in EC was hurting anyone trying to run the instance legit -and- cheating by getting unlimited free runs.

You really can't compare the two things.

[Squid]

4 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Not condoning the practice, but he isn't hurting anyone else by doing this. And he's paying with luna for the extra runs.

What was happening in EC was hurting anyone trying to run the instance legit -and- cheating by getting unlimited free runs.

You really can't compare the two things.

It can be compared it is the same thing. You are excluding the players that just want to win or lose so you can progress faster. While EC was done differently it is still an exploit. No matter what the exploit all should be treated equal. This is how you stamp out exploiting permanently.

Ark stopped its enforcement team but for 6 months the game was cheat free. No one wanted to cheat because they would lose 10s of 1000s of man hours by 1 person in their group cheating. They banned for the dumbest yet logical things if you want to rid the game of cheating and it worked.

[GenericUser13790]

7 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Not condoning the practice, but he isn't hurting anyone else by doing this. And he's paying with luna for the extra runs.

What was happening in EC was hurting anyone trying to run the instance legit -and- cheating by getting unlimited free runs.

You really can't compare the two things.

Are you sure about that?  What happens if an Elyos comes in to get the 3 surks lugbug daily done but cannot cause there are afk alts clogging real people?

This is by far a bigger scale than EC.  EC ran 3 days, THREE.  How many days does IB run?  ID? and AD?

Lastly I would like to input that the only reason you arent condemning it is you are complicit with it, running with him knowing what he is doing.  If not how would you know he is using luna?

Any exploit is a way of cheating, no matter the severity if anyone's mind.

 

Mech is so fast on calling everyone out about EC, but when it comes down to it, he is just as guilty (if not more) than Evilsmellydingus or w/e his name is.  He is in fact effecting more people on a daily scale by abusing the same fundamental of EC kicking.  The poor soul preaches about how good he is at PvP, but runs from it if he doesn't have a gear advantage.  Which is what people were saying the EC bug was doing, giving an unfair gear advantage. 

 

I guess you are right, I can't compare the two things, because what Mech is doing is far more detrimental for the fair play of the game and the length he has done it, makes EC look like a drop in the ocean.

[Shayded-KT]

That sort of thing has been going on for a long time. I remember in 5.8 more than once I did QE Dredge and two times against a premade I was with the same cleric and chanter, they were ely alts. How do I know? Because they were smart enough to put in their notes with cute little hearts their affection for the Ely Glad in the premade. Pretty much took care of those runs no heals no go and I couldn't get any quests done. Same always happened with IWW. Dirty players dirty game.

[Arhangelos]

Here is what, cheating in gaming is usually referring to someone using a bug, or glitch or direct hack to "cheat", aka abusing the game, teaming against your own alts is not even ban-able because you simply take advantage of the situation of having multiple clients open, or looking at the enemy EC queue and make sure you grab the pugs into your premade. This shouldn't even be a thing if they bothered to make teaming algorithm a little more elaborate to make sure nobody would be able to time enter with alts in arenas, or any pvp instance.

Of course I am not defending this technique, because indirectly it is what ruins every part of the game, like arena ranking, pvp instances and what not. I blame the developers for leaving all these open like that instead of simply making the teaming algorithm better. It is like throwing money from a helicopter and expect people on the ground not to take any money because it is not theirs.

~~
EC on itself has been the biggest bleeding thing in Aion ever since it was implemented. Premade groups are making sure they get in with quick queued people of the opposite side, that is also a trick, but not bannable.  AFK Alts ruining the entry of real players which is also not bannable to be afk and get rewards, which made kicking a necessity, but it didn't last long before nobody would kick anyone, or that assh*les would kick those that they hated like "AFKTolerance" and her alts which she abused for the whole 5.+ patch and even bragged about it. Kicking ability got abused by all sorts of people with all sorts of reasons and now it was abused by this bug.

5 minutes ago, Shayded-KT said:

That sort of thing has been going on for a long time. I remember in 5.8 more than once I did QE Dredge and two times against a premade I was with the same cleric and chanter, they were ely alts. How do I know? Because they were smart enough to put in their notes with cute little hearts their affection for the Ely Glad in the premade. Pretty much took care of those runs no heals no go and I couldn't get any quests done. Same always happened with IWW. Dirty players dirty game.

...someone is going to jump and say "make a premade to avoid this".

[Jaimie-KT]

8 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Not condoning the practice, but he isn't hurting anyone else by doing this. And he's paying with luna for the extra runs.

What was happening in EC was hurting anyone trying to run the instance legit -and- cheating by getting unlimited free runs.

You really can't compare the two things.

Not entirely true, by queuing up on alts and going afk, he's screwing over people who have actually queued up to attempt to win.  Now I'm sure that you're going to say "make a pre-made" but not everyone does that for whatever reasons.  It's one thing to start an instance, see that it's not winnable and then everyone saying "yeah ok just AFK."  But that's very different.

[GitGud-DN]

55 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

Here is what, cheating in gaming is usually referring to someone using a bug, or glitch or direct hack to "cheat", aka abusing the game, teaming against your own alts is not even ban-able because you simply take advantage of the situation of having multiple clients open, or looking at the enemy EC queue and make sure you grab the pugs into your premade. This shouldn't even be a thing if they bothered to make teaming algorithm a little more elaborate to make sure nobody would be able to time enter with alts in arenas, or any pvp instance.

Of course I am not defending this technique, because indirectly it is what ruins every part of the game, like arena ranking, pvp instances and what not. I blame the developers for leaving all these open like that instead of simply making the teaming algorithm better. It is like throwing money from a helicopter and expect people on the ground not to take any money because it is not theirs.

Cheating in a game is using a bug/glitch that is not intended by the developers.  The teaming against alts IS cheating and abusing what devs do not want.  It became a big issue when Aion went free to play and, as we know, its hard to get banned on Aion for anything. 

The oh its not in the ToS then its not bannable is a complete bullsiht cop out.  If that were true then the EC bug isnt bannable or anything.  

Like what was stated above, its ironic a person abusing the system to get upgrade to gears is calling out those who abused the EC bug.  Abusing is abusing.  You cant say well he only did it on these occasions so its ok.  Thats like blaming real people queing a pug and then finding out they have alt of the opposing faction as leader and the alts are afk.  You are affecting the game play of others by abusing the use of opposite faction alts.

[Aly-DN]

I have never run a dredg with Mech. And I think we are mixing things up. I thought he was being accused of making a total Elyos alt premade that then went against his total Asmo premade. The Elyos group is 100% alts. None of them want to do anything because they are controlled by the Asmos they are playing against. The Asmo team is getting all the bags. But no Elyos were harmed.  And it isn't just Asmos that do this. Many many many times my Asmo premade goes into dredg and finds an empty dredge. Or one rank 1 pokes it's head in and then leaves. Obviously a scout checking to see if they got their own alt group and left after finding out that what they got a real Asmo premade. Same happens in ID and IB.

And how do I know he uses luna? He has been in the discord and said as much. 

As has been pointed out, queuing against yourself also happens in arenas. How else do we get 50 people tied for 1st place?

I just don't understand why this was brought up when Mech insinuated with his post that people that abused the kick-bug in EC for unlimited entries were going to get temp bans. I see this a lot. Someone is accused of doing something dirty and someone else pops in and say, "But you once wore white shoes after Labor Day!" Now if the person had said to Mech, "You did it, too, you potato." Then that would have been a real gotcha.

[LeftNut-DN]

2 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Someone is accused of doing something dirty and someone else pops in and say, "But you once wore white shoes after Labor Day!" Now if the person had said to Mech, "You did it, too, you potato." Then that would have been a real gotcha.

Maybe the saying 'those that live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones,' is more appropriate.  Reveling at other cheaters/abusers might get banned while he does the same in the other PvP instances.  If everyone committed a crime, would that mean its ok to do? 

Come on use some common sense.  Here's a guy constantly crying about P2w then he uses alts to farm against in PvP instances that provide more or the same amount of upgrade materials.  To think of it, its actually worst cause here are 3 instances that are easily more controllable who you vs than EC.

The main point I read in this thread is here is a guy thinking he is more pristine and innocent, than say metalphantomimbecile or w/e, when he actually is doing far worst by ruining others experience by afking 2 alts in ID, IB and AD.  The whole line about making your own premade is stupid cause that means out of sight out of mind then.  If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?  How many more cliches should I use to top wearing white shoes after labor day makes you a potato.

Again, just because others are doing something similar doesnt make everyone doing the cheating correct. 

[Ymad-DN]

11 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

And how do I know he uses luna? He has been in the discord and said as much. 

Has Mech said anything about instance matching in discord?  Just curious.

 

I can already see that answer as no.  But some will speculate him bragging about it.

[Arhangelos]

20 hours ago, GitGud-DN said:

Cheating in a game is using a bug/glitch that is not intended by the developers.  The teaming against alts IS cheating and abusing what devs do not want.  It became a big issue when Aion went free to play and, as we know, its hard to get banned on Aion for anything. 

The oh its not in the ToS then its not bannable is a complete bullsiht cop out.  If that were true then the EC bug isnt bannable or anything.  

Like what was stated above, its ironic a person abusing the system to get upgrade to gears is calling out those who abused the EC bug.  Abusing is abusing.  You cant say well he only did it on these occasions so its ok.  Thats like blaming real people queing a pug and then finding out they have alt of the opposing faction as leader and the alts are afk.  You are affecting the game play of others by abusing the use of opposite faction alts.

...then I guess having an alt, afking him in luna, crafting kinah boxes and then broker the money to your main is: not bannable, not in ToS, but should be treated as a cheat according to the same logic. If developers wanted you to have 10, or 20, or 100 luna daily entries and craft like 200 kinah boxes per week so one character can benefit from all that they would have given that character 100 entries to begin with.

ANY benefit anyone might have had using an alt when the outcome was from a limited entry is cheating as well.

Entering an instance with an alt, looking for daevanion shugo and if one spawns then get your main in to claim it, or sell loot rights to someone else, is benefiting from a free entry with an alt that otherwise you would have to pay for

Events with alts and tradeable rewards are another "cheat"... if we get one free key per day then someone with 50 alts will get 50 and will surely be able to trade those tradeable rewards to his main. If GMs wanted 50 keys for one person they would have given those to him.

People that are naked, getting carried and given items that never worked for, or loot-right items they didn't even fight for is another cheat. I have done more than 300 pfs in the 6.2~6.7 era many of those paid for by luna entry and still never got wings, other people didn't have to work for them because of a trick that the items were tradeable in loot after 10~12 minutes, is it a feature or a bug?

Tricks like this are not bannable because the system allows for them without the need for a bug to exist or use 3rd party cheating to do so. It is not a "bug" that the loot in the boss is open ffa to anyone nearby after 10 minutes because this happens to every dead mob, this is not bannable and developers could easily fix that. They could also easily fix teaming against your own alts, but they never bothered.

What the original poster said is that there was a real bug that was abused and in the end GMs had to disable the instance because of that bug and most likely people will get punishment.

 

20 hours ago, GitGud-DN said:

The oh its not in the ToS then its not bannable is a complete bullsiht cop out.

I already said I do not condone the practice of teaming with your alts, so you could tone it a little down. You are having a fight alone here.

[GitGud-DN]

So let's play, you said cause these things have been going on without any thing done shouldn't be bannable,  Well this bug isnt bannable by your own logic cause it HAS been known for some time, dont know the length cause it was not stated,

On 9/11/2019 at 9:24 PM, Cyan said:

I'm not going to comment on people speculating on the EC bug, but I can assure you that it's something the development team is, and has been aware of. 

[GitGud-DN]

I believe we all agree to the ToS and what lies within it.  Here is the Rules of conduct number one:

WHILE PLAYING AION, YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS AND THEIR RIGHTS TO PLAY AND ENJOY THE GAME. TO THIS END, YOU MAY NOT DEFRAUD, HARASS, THREATEN, OR CAUSE DISTRESS AND/OR UNWANTED ATTENTION TO OTHER PLAYERS.

 

By teaming against your alts you are infringing on the rights of others to play and enjoy the game by defrauding them the instance run cause you want to get all the stuff on your main.  You can preach to the high heavens that one should make a premade, I counter in what world does ignoring the blatant disrespect for the Rules of Conduct does that merit defrauding some players of the right to Quick Entry queue.  Out of sight doesn't mean it is still legal.

[Aly-DN]

5 minutes ago, GitGud-DN said:

I believe we all agree to the ToS and what lies within it.  Here is the Rules of conduct number one:

WHILE PLAYING AION, YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS AND THEIR RIGHTS TO PLAY AND ENJOY THE GAME. TO THIS END, YOU MAY NOT DEFRAUD, HARASS, THREATEN, OR CAUSE DISTRESS AND/OR UNWANTED ATTENTION TO OTHER PLAYERS.

 

By teaming against your alts you are infringing on the rights of others to play and enjoy the game by defrauding them the instance run cause you want to get all the stuff on your main.  You can preach to the high heavens that one should make a premade, I counter in what world does ignoring the blatant disrespect for the Rules of Conduct does that merit defrauding some players of the right to Quick Entry queue.  Out of sight doesn't mean it is still legal.

Alright. Devil's advocate here. By your logic, if a premade group makes a premade group of enemy alts and exclusively queues and plays against them, who have they defrauded?

[Matsukamy-KT]

As with hacking, it's not allowed to defame others with accusations on forums, no proof has been provided that mech does this, and also, if there's proof you should send to support, not talk about here.

[GitGud-DN]

11 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

As with hacking, it's not allowed to defame others with accusations on forums, no proof has been provided that mech does this, and also, if there's proof you should send to support, not talk about here.

The public shaming of cheaters is more effective than NCwest doling out punishment.  Its not defaming when the statement is true.

 

18 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

Alright. Devil's advocate here. By your logic, if a premade group makes a premade group of enemy alts and exclusively queues and plays against them, who have they defrauded?

They have defrauded the whole Aion community.  As I stated, out of sight doesn't mean its still legal.  They are getting upgrade materials from a dishonest practice.  The community, in whole, should be up in arms about this exploit just as they are about the EC bug.

To make it clear, anyone who match fixes in any instance should be disciplined.  This isnt just a sole person. 

[Arhangelos]

33 minutes ago, GitGud-DN said:

WHILE PLAYING AION, YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS AND THEIR RIGHTS TO PLAY AND ENJOY THE GAME. TO THIS END, YOU MAY NOT DEFRAUD, HARASS, THREATEN, OR CAUSE DISTRESS AND/OR UNWANTED ATTENTION TO OTHER PLAYERS.

Entering an instance with an alt and afking (like most people do with alts on EC) is a form of harassment at least for me. Teaming with your own alts is not correct, but in the process you even let other people enjoy a free run so you don't even harm anyone.

Pay to win is also affecting everyone else...!

--
We have continuously made posts about how to fix those things and there is a solution to most problems but they do not want to deal with those things

Examples:

• When you apply for arena, you should get instantly popped in when an enemy is found, if you leave the arena you should be losing points that you would if the enemy killed you enough times to win this... there I just provided a fix for the two arena problems.
• OR All arenas should pop at the same time, i.e. every 5 minutes, so when everyone gets an entry, you can't be sure it is your alts, because the timer will be the same to everyone.
• Same when you apply for a pvp instance, you get teleported in when the enemies are found.
• AFKers in any instance should get 0 rewards, there is an easy way to AI who is afk and who is not.

...these are fixes the developers should make, you can't rely on good will on people. Democracy has failed since its birth, especially when Socrates, one of the fathers of democracy, drunk the Conium in the set-up trial against him by his haters and he agreed on drinking it because he was blind about the power of the majority and was sure this was the right thing.

[Lubeless-DN]

How bad is your life if you need to cheat in a video game to get pixels.....lmao

7 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

Teaming with your own alts is not correct, but in the process you even let other people enjoy a free run so you don't even harm anyone.

Pay to win is also affecting everyone else...!

I don't understand the first sentence.  If you gain something of value through deceptive means, thats fraud.  I know there are upgrade materials and AP that are of value in the PvP instances.  Isn't that why we run them?  If you hold 2 of 3 or 2 of 6 positions on the other team, are you not gaining something of value through deceptive means?  In effect you are hurting everyone through fixing the other team and gaining the materials and AP through fraud.

P2w gets thrown around a lot.  Only thing I've seen recently that I would consider p2w is this shugo board game.  I saw a streamer have about $1k USD worth of stuff in his bags.  Can't combat that with the way the gaming industry has gone with micro transactions.  I bet NCWest actually makes more profit off a f2p game with micro transactions than they did with the subscription system.

[Safeword-KT]

On 2019. 9. 15. at 9:44 PM, Aly-DN said:

 he isn't hurting anyone else by doing this.

logging opposite faction alts to afk and handicap the other team while your team steamrolls the instance isn't hurting other players?

Glue is a hell of a drug.

 

P.S. it isn't only him doing it; practice is rampant and irritating.

[Aly-DN]

1 minute ago, 1s8B7B8-KT said:

logging opposite faction alts to afk and handicap the other team while your team steamrolls the instance isn't hurting other players?

Glue is a hell of a drug.

 

P.S. it isn't only him doing it; practice is rampant and irritating.

I already explained what I thought he was being accused of. I thought he was being accused of making a premade team and then making a complete premade alt team on the opposite side. Both complete premades queue and only enter against one another. (i.e. when the timers match up) No other players on either side is involved. How is that hurting anyone?

Yes. I get the idea that his premade would be getting mats faster. But it's only two free runs and all other runs would need to be paid for by luna. But there wouldn't be any other players involved.

[Safeword-KT]

18 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

I already explained what I thought he was being accused of. I thought he was being accused of making a premade team and then making a complete premade alt team on the opposite side. Both complete premades queue and only enter against one another. (i.e. when the timers match up) No other players on either side is involved. How is that hurting anyone?

Yes. I get the idea that his premade would be getting mats faster. But it's only two free runs and all other runs would need to be paid for by luna. But there wouldn't be any other players involved.

1. as soon as you say "but it's only" you're either 5 or admitting you're wrong

2. you do it to, so your feeble defense seems more feeble

3. A premade vs (X) solo queues and (Y) afk opposite faction alts is the most common iteration of this stupidity, so tell me again how nobody is affected

 

Elmer's? Bostik?

[Aly-DN]

Sigh. Reading is so hard.

Not even sure why I responded since you always use this alts to jump on anything I say and rarely bother to actually read what I've written or what the thread is even about.

Good luck with your anger, sunshine.

[Matsukamy-KT]

Quote

The public shaming of cheaters is more effective than NCwest doling out punishment.  Its not defaming when the statement is true.

It's kinda defaming yourself, because if you are not providing proof, it just looks like you are all kinda salty because mech kills you in the game too much.