Fighting fragments

[Vantheria-DN]

23 minutes ago, Hellish-DN said:

You’re not guaranteed a win by making a premade, but it gives you a way higher chance to win since you won’t have afk people hopefully in your group. I go with the same 2 people everyday, and we win the majority though we lose sometimes.

When we lose it's your fault!

Kidding, kidding. <3

[Ele-DN]

5 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Who told you that? You are really good at just hearing what you want to hear, Ele. 

Others have been telling you to make a premade if you want to avoid afkers or the undergeared or underleveled. It's your group so you set the parameters and you decide who is in the group and who isn't.

You have a higher chance of winning in a premade, bu you still need to win to get the winner's rewards. 

Can't believe that actually needed to be spelled out.

Welcome to the Aion forums.

So, making a premade group is not afking right? and if not afking we get nothing. logic? in the mean time,afk 3 empty arenas for 60 fragments....is perfectly fine.

[Vessttemona-KT]

20 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

So, making a premade group is not afking right? and if not afking we get nothing. logic? in the mean time,afk 3 empty arenas for 60 fragments....is perfectly fine.

 

im going to try to explain this as simple as possible ok?? joining to a quick queue group ( or pug as some people call it) is 99% you will lose, the only way a pug will have a chance to win is if the opposite group is also a pug and the group who will win is the one that has more active members (not afking).

 

In my oppinion the losing team should never ever be rewarded, even if it was a premade vs a premade, why?? because is the only way people will stop afkin in those instances, and if for some reason your premade group loses, learn to make adjustments in the group so that next time you can get the victory, thats what the most of us do, something is not working?? we make some adjustment.

[Matsukamy-KT]

7 minutes ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

 

im going to try to explain this as simple as possible ok?? joining to a quick queue group ( or pug as some people call it) is 99% you will lose, the only way a pug will have a chance to win is if the opposite group is also a pug and the group who will win is the one that has more active members (not afking).

 

In my oppinion the losing team should never ever be rewarded, even if it was a premade vs a premade, why?? because is the only way people will stop afkin in those instances, and if for some reason your premade group loses, learn to make adjustments in the group so that next time you can get the victory, thats what the most of us do, something is not working?? we make some adjustment.

So, lets look at the logic here.

You agree that pug is 99% chance of defeat, at the same time you think that is the optimal choice for the game is to have no reward for the losing team ? 

[Vessttemona-KT]

18 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

So, lets look at the logic here.

You agree that pug is 99% chance of defeat, at the same time you think that is the optimal choice for the game is to have no reward for the losing team ? 

I'm going to put it this way

the other day, i was in my vandal and joined to a quick queue for Kamar because there were no people forming lfg and the window was about to close in a few minutes so there was no time for me to start makin one, i got in and the fight started, it turned out it was a pug vs a pug and in my ally it was only me who was active, while the opposite group had over 6 members active, i started to tell to my ally to help me to get at least 10k points because i needed the stigma, my vandal doesnt have all stigmas yet, but none of them did, even someone told me to stop spaming because they went to kamar just for the entium, do you think that is fair for people with 0 effort gets something?

 

[Ele-DN]

1 hour ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

 

im going to try to explain this as simple as possible ok?? joining to a quick queue group ( or pug as some people call it) is 99% you will lose, the only way a pug will have a chance to win is if the opposite group is also a pug and the group who will win is the one that has more active members (not afking).

 

In my oppinion the losing team should never ever be rewarded, even if it was a premade vs a premade, why?? because is the only way people will stop afkin in those instances, and if for some reason your premade group loses, learn to make adjustments in the group so that next time you can get the victory, thats what the most of us do, something is not working?? we make some adjustment.

So, put effort in to something and still lose is still considering afking.

49 minutes ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

I'm going to put it this way

the other day, i was in my vandal and joined to a quick queue for Kamar because there were no people forming lfg and the window was about to close in a few minutes so there was no time for me to start makin one, i got in and the fight started, it turned out it was a pug vs a pug and in my ally it was only me who was active, while the opposite group had over 6 members active, i started to tell to my ally to help me to get at least 10k points because i needed the stigma, my vandal doesnt have all stigmas yet, but none of them did, even someone told me to stop spaming because they went to kamar just for the entium, do you think that is fair for people with 0 effort gets something?

 

Thats your problem for quick queuing and playing right?

[Matsukamy-KT]

Quote

 

I'm going to put it this way

the other day, i was in my vandal and joined to a quick queue for Kamar because there were no people forming lfg and the window was about to close in a few minutes so there was no time for me to start makin one, i got in and the fight started, it turned out it was a pug vs a pug and in my ally it was only me who was active, while the opposite group had over 6 members active, i started to tell to my ally to help me to get at least 10k points because i needed the stigma, my vandal doesnt have all stigmas yet, but none of them did, even someone told me to stop spaming because they went to kamar just for the entium, do you think that is fair for people with 0 effort gets something?

 

According to your own logic, this was a quick queue, so you should expect only 1% chance of winning, therefore, according to you, you should get 0 prize anyway, getting 10k points or not.

[Vessttemona-KT]

12 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

According to your own logic, this was a quick queue, so you should expect only 1% chance of winning, therefore, according to you, you should get 0 prize anyway, getting 10k points or not.

YES

34 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

So, put effort in to something and still lose is still considering afking.

Thats your problem for quick queuing and playing right?

@Ele-DN

keep ignoring what people are trying to tell you, i hope that works for you in your future instances runs

 

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

52 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

So, put effort in to something and still lose is still considering afking.

Thats your problem for quick queuing and playing right?

No, putting effort into something and losing is still losing, which they're saying should not be rewarded.

AFKing = Losing (most likely).
Losing =/= Afking (you can not afk and still lose)
I think that is where you're getting confused on the message here. The TL;DR of this entire forum reads:
Don't give rewards to the losers, it's not even difficult to win if you try.

Sure you might try and lose every now and again but it'd be all too easy if you got rewarded no matter what.
If you REALLY suck at IB as we all do at first, just log alts with your friends and practice on those and/or ask friends for advice and help.

[Matsukamy-KT]

Quote

I think that is where you're getting confused on the message here. The TL;DR of this entire forum reads:
Don't give rewards to the losers, it's not even difficult to win if you try.

That is not the message they are passing here.

What they are saying is:

 reward for quick queuers and afkers is bad.

If you want to get a reward, make a group and try to win.

If you quick entry, expect losers, nooblets and afkers, and get a bad reward, which, ideally for them should be even lower, perhaps even zero.

[Chump-DN]

I agree add frags to losing teams.  And to prestige for every hour logged in we get 20.  Cause hell we keeping this going.  Why we give it to losers and not those paying NCsoft's bills.

[Matsukamy-KT]

6 minutes ago, Chump-DN said:

I agree add frags to losing teams.  And to prestige for every hour logged in we get 20.  Cause hell we keeping this going.  Why we give it to losers and not those paying NCsoft's bills.

If you are paying, you are getting more entries, and therefore more fragments.

[Ele-DN]

1 hour ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

YES

@Ele-DN

keep ignoring what people are trying to tell you, i hope that works for you in your future instances runs

 

Ignore what? Queueing in a quick entry instance and caring about afkers getting rewards? 

 

1 hour ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

No, putting effort into something and losing is still losing, which they're saying should not be rewarded.

AFKing = Losing (most likely).
Losing =/= Afking (you can not afk and still lose)
I think that is where you're getting confused on the message here. The TL;DR of this entire forum reads:
Don't give rewards to the losers, it's not even difficult to win if you try.

Sure you might try and lose every now and again but it'd be all too easy if you got rewarded no matter what.
If you REALLY suck at IB as we all do at first, just log alts with your friends and practice on those and/or ask friends for advice and help.

AFking in empty arena .. full reward

playing in a losing game NOT AFKING = nothing

 

Still can't figure out the difference?

 

AND LOL AT sucking... no. You should tell that to the ones who needs to play a specific class.

[Vessttemona-KT]

9 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Ignore what? Queueing in a quick entry instance and caring about afkers getting rewards? 

 

AFking in empty arena .. full reward

playing in a losing game NOT AFKING = nothing

 

Still can't figure out the difference?

 

AND LOL AT sucking... no. You should tell that to the ones who needs to play a specific class.

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

@Ele-DN people dont want the losing team to get rewards, not exclusively due to afkers but to take incentive away from afkers. Plain n simple

[Kinetika-KT]

11 hours ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

In my oppinion the losing team should never ever be rewarded, even if it was a premade vs a premade, why?? because is the only way people will stop afkin in those instances, and if for some reason your premade group loses, learn to make adjustments in the group so that next time you can get the victory, thats what the most of us do, something is not working?? we make some adjustment.

I would have to disagree here. Taking loser rewards away completely would discourage starting people from even trying and taking the first baby steps towards progression. There should be some consolation reward, just nowhere as good as as winning reward, so that people have incentive to try to win. As for fragments, I think, the current system is ballanced - 20 for winning, none for losing, while losers still get some rewards. 

[Squid]

1 hour ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

@Ele-DN people dont want the losing team to get rewards, not exclusively due to afkers but to take incentive away from afkers. Plain n simple

Yet if you go back and read previous threads i bet the majority of the people complaining about ele and her current post are the ones who are all for the siege buff/loser rewards.

Siege is ruined by both the buff and the loser rewards because it rewards the ones who go in attack 1 person then afk the entirety of the siege. The only reason some factions can get winners rewards is by being rewarded for losing. Take this in to account and their is no reason not to reward the losers with half the reward of the winners because they already do it in other content.

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

53 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Yet if you go back and read previous threads i bet the majority of the people complaining about ele and her current post are the ones who are all for the siege buff/loser rewards.

The only reason some factions can get winners rewards is by being rewarded for losing. Take this in to account and their is no reason not to reward the losers with half the reward of the winners because they already do it in other content.

You're not really comparing apples to apples here, siege buff is not a reward you get for losing, it is an assistence you're given out of necessity. Did you play in a pre-buff world of Aion? IS-Elyos holding forts for more than a month, Asmodians not even showing up to siege. Hell take 6.2 for example when the buff was broken and only went up to Level 1; for the first month (until it was fixed) the lesser factions on both servers lost EVERY siege. The buff is not a reward, it is a necessary assistence. The reward is the 1 legendary you get for losing. Not a super great reward but a little something for your troubles, not unlike the AP and ancient stones you get for losing ID and IB.

Basically, you're allowed to be happy that forts can change colours now unlike OG siege or 6.2 first month siege, and yet still recognise that the rewards for a losing IB or ID are (in one's opinion) sufficent for the performance given. No matter the siege buff you get the same garbage if you don't try and lose, after all.

[Ele-DN]

31 minutes ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

You're not really comparing apples to apples here, siege buff is not a reward you get for losing, it is an assistence you're given out of necessity. Did you play in a pre-buff world of Aion? IS-Elyos holding forts for more than a month, Asmodians not even showing up to siege. Hell take 6.2 for example when the buff was broken and only went up to Level 1; for the first month (until it was fixed) the lesser factions on both servers lost EVERY siege. The buff is not a reward, it is a necessary assistence. The reward is the 1 legendary you get for losing. Not a super great reward but a little something for your troubles, not unlike the AP and ancient stones you get for losing ID and IB.

Basically, you're allowed to be happy that forts can change colours now unlike OG siege or 6.2 first month siege, and yet still recognise that the rewards for a losing IB or ID are (in one's opinion) sufficent for the performance given. No matter the siege buff you get the same garbage if you don't try and lose, after all.

Not great? wtf are you talking about? ~5 mins feeding the winning side 2 stones in return for one is not good? Also, since the very BEGINNING, siege buff is useless af. Server balance does not rely on a nyerking siege buff.

 

1 hour ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Yet if you go back and read previous threads i bet the majority of the people complaining about ele and her current post are the ones who are all for the siege buff/loser rewards.

Siege is ruined by both the buff and the loser rewards because it rewards the ones who go in attack 1 person then afk the entirety of the siege. The only reason some factions can get winners rewards is by being rewarded for losing. Take this in to account and their is no reason not to reward the losers with half the reward of the winners because they already do it in other content.

As i said earlier, winning team gets ~Equivalent ultimate stone(in fragments) while the loser gets literally nothing. (ib gets no enchantment stone bags either) 

[Squid]

40 minutes ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

You're not really comparing apples to apples here, siege buff is not a reward you get for losing, it is an assistence you're given out of necessity. Did you play in a pre-buff world of Aion? IS-Elyos holding forts for more than a month, Asmodians not even showing up to siege. Hell take 6.2 for example when the buff was broken and only went up to Level 1; for the first month (until it was fixed) the lesser factions on both servers lost EVERY siege. The buff is not a reward, it is a necessary assistence. The reward is the 1 legendary you get for losing. Not a super great reward but a little something for your troubles, not unlike the AP and ancient stones you get for losing ID and IB.

Basically, you're allowed to be happy that forts can change colours now unlike OG siege or 6.2 first month siege, and yet still recognise that the rewards for a losing IB or ID are (in one's opinion) sufficent for the performance given. No matter the siege buff you get the same garbage if you don't try and lose, after all.

All i am seeing here is double standards and someone trying to justify the losing side getting rewards for losing.

By losing siege 5 times you save 50 fragments and 50 yellow stones if you are making 1 ultimate stone. Even if you are just keeping the legendary stones you save 5 frags every time you lose. You are getting rewarded handsomely for losing by not needing to morph as many stones every 5 days. This is top tier losing rewards IMO. All you have to do is go there attack 1 person with-in range and then go afk back in base ruining the siege for everyone because you are not participating. 

IB do you even get stones for losing? I dunno almost all of mine have been empty runs due to other people dodging for their alts. Then you have ID where you do get 1 stone for losing but ultimately your chance of getting a purple stone varies from person to person. I have seen maybe and this is a big maybe 2 purple stones from all the battle boxes i have obtained over time. This means afking siege is more rewarding per week than it is for those who participate in losing IB/ID's.

 

Also it is comparing apples to apples because both give PvP progression and both make you kill the other faction in order to win the only difference is the numbers needed to do so.

[Aly-DN]

You don't get nothing for losing in IB and ID. You get rewards. You just don't get the winning rewards. You get etium.. but less of it. You get enchantment stones.. but less of them. And you get AP.. but less of it. What you don't get less of is the new top tier reward, which is frags. Some feel that the "participation" rewards should include some of those new top tier reward. Others don't. 

I personally do not because I feel it will encourage afking.

I don't think we are going to change each other's minds and in the end it doesn't matter. NCWest would need to first, pay attention and second, act. They either will or they won't. The nastier this gets, the less likely they are going to do anything. So have at it.

What is totally disingenuous is anyone asserting that the current siege buff doesn't work and that somehow that buff equates to frags in the losing rewards in a pvp instance. 

First, the current siege buff is the -only- thing that has helped with server population imbalance in the whole of the history of Aion. The siege buff isn't a reward. It's an equalizer. It allows a smaller group of people to be successful. In an instance you can make a pre-made and work together to prevail against a group of similar numbers. You have a chance. You can't make a "pre-made" siege. The game does not control the numbers of your opponents. It's not 6v6 or 12v12 or even 100v100. It can be 100v500 and neither you nor the game has control over that. The devs needed to come up with a way that in a lopsided numbers situation that the smaller group has a chance of winning. The current siege buff 100% does that. It took them 8 or so years to get to this solution and nothing they tried before that had worked. 

Second, just like in the PvP instances the losers in a siege get less of what the winners get. You get enchantment stones.. but less of them. You get genesis crystals.. but less of them. You get AP.. but less of them. There isn't a new top tier reward for sieges. 

[Squid]

@Aly-DNThere is no way you believe it will encourage afking. Unless you do not do any IB/ID or you have been living under a rock since 6.0 hit NA servers you sure as hell know that the majority seem to be going up against their own alts or passing if they feel it is a premade. 1v1 arena/3v3 arena threads proves this point 10 fold.

The current siege system does not help server population imbalance . If we were talking back in 1.X then sure this would be been a godsend because the losers got no medals they got not AP instances or anything. Now days the losers are getting half the rewards of the winners at siege so the buff only serves the purpose of giving the losing faction a win every few days. Due to this you are giving the losers of siege winners rewards which is worse than asking for losing rewards for losing IMO.  What is the bottleneck for every single player when progressing PvP gear? Fragments, Be it upgrading or needing more purple/red stones it is 100% fragments. Any amount of stones you obtain legendary and better grade stones you obtain improves the rate at which you upgrade your gear and +15 it thus saves you fragments in the long run since that is the bottleneck.

Look at it from an perspective. The imbalance caused by the fragments bottleneck has been as bad as playing back during the 1.X days. Refly was the best name for Aion 6.0 because they are making everyone experience the unbalanced state of 1.X all over again. The only difference is that the 1v1 3v3 6v6 and 12v12 and open world encounters being ruined content not siege. All they did is migrate the issues in siege to instanced based PvP and that IMO is worse than siege imbalances.

[Aly-DN]

7 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

@Aly-DNThere is no way you believe it will encourage afking. Unless you do not do any IB/ID or you have been living under a rock since 6.0 hit NA servers ...

*snip*

You got me.

But thanks for correcting me on what I think.

[Squid]

1 minute ago, Aly-DN said:

You got me.

 

But thanks for correcting me on what I think.

Your welcome.

[Aly-DN]

48 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Your welcome.

**You're