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Ele-DN

Fighting fragments

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Yeah let the afkers get rewarded for doing nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

Delete this useless post, and try to stop losing duh

Edited by Shuten-DN

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All the whales keep spamming resets, preventing the matchmaking system from matching similar MMR players together...

If you have trouble winning instances due to that, try:

Do all Genesis Crystal Quests and craft Ancient T1 PvP gear for extraction fodder

Magic Crystal drop rates

Or search for "Conqueror" on the broker for PvP fodder gear to extract. On Elyos KT, the lowest available price is around 4 million kinah for 1 Fighting Spirit Fragment.

Edited by TheSecretCowLeve-KT

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Ele-DN   
6 hours ago, TINTINTIN-DN said:

stop losing lol

Thats easy. 

Tell these people to stop applying to groups.

 

5 hours ago, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

All the whales keep spamming resets, preventing the matchmaking system from matching similar MMR players together...

If you have trouble winning instances due to that, try:

Do all Genesis Crystal Quests and craft Ancient T1 PvP gear for extraction fodder

Magic Crystal drop rates

Or search for "Conqueror" on the broker for PvP fodder gear to extract. On Elyos KT, the lowest available price is around 4 million kinah for 1 Fighting Spirit Fragment.

so.... 20 x 4m worth of free fragments because of just being geared? And for IB where some players doesn't even know the mechanics of the game wasting some other players runs?

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I have to agree with Ely here. Even with 0 fragments for loses, ppl still join to fully afk. So you end up losing your entry because of that.

It's quite elitist to tell people not to apply for instances, or wait 6 months when you have gear to enter a freaking instance.

 

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Aly-DN   
3 hours ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

I have to agree with Ely here. Even with 0 fragments for loses, ppl still join to fully afk. So you end up losing your entry because of that.

It's quite elitist to tell people not to apply for instances, or wait 6 months when you have gear to enter a freaking instance.

 

Did you read through that whole thread? I was confused at first but the story came out as the thread progressed. It actually wasn't elitist. The LFG post was for "geared" and someone applied when they had not a single piece of PvP gear. In fact they were in quest level 76 PvE gear. That isn't geared by anyone's definition. You need to put in -some- effort to get gear but as people have pointed out before, it is super easy to get the ancient PvP gear now. Once you have that gear, you can use your Genesis crystals to buy weapons and disenchant them for frags and to buy enchantment stones. You can use Stellium coins to buy more Genesis crystals as well as buy legendary etium. You can do HM for more legendary etium and ap. AFKing in PvP instance (aside from dredg) gives you some enchantment stones and ap, even if you lose and don't get frags. Go to sieges and hit -something- to get more ap and enchantment stones. Play and the gear will happen, even if it's slower because you aren't geared enough to win most of the time. It won't take you 6 months.

If you quick queue for a PvP instance, you run the risk of getting someone that will be 100% afk or underleveled or undergeared. If you -make- a group, you can specify participation and gear level. You have NO right to be accepted into an LFG group. You have to meet the group makers standards and they can set those anyway they wish. They can even specify "must know you", which I always thought of as an odd requirement since you can send links for your group to all your friends if you wish. Many people seem really scared to make a group and I get that. But that is the way to get things done. You can't expect anyone else to care about your game and your progression. That isn't their job.

Edited by Aly-DN
misstated.. you have no right

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IB requires 0 gear, if you know how to do the instance you can win easily, keep practicing and you will get better and stop losing

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Jinky-KT   

I always qe because I am not geared, and do try if it looks like you have a chance. If it is a full General/commander premade what is the sense in running out continuously to be one shot. If no one moves at the start should I run out and 1 v 6 them? I do get some wins guessing maybe 30%. This is for Idgel dome, IB is a useless glitched mess and dredge qe is almost always nothing but ap, you sometimes enter when it is almost over can't even get daily done.  As far as the rewards go, you do get something ( not frags). Superbowl losers get $59,000 for trying can I get that instead of frag?

 

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Ele-DN   
5 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Did you read through that whole thread? I was confused at first but the story came out as the thread progressed. It actually wasn't elitist. The LFG post was for "geared" and someone applied when they had not a single piece of PvP gear. In fact they were in quest level 76 PvE gear. That isn't geared by anyone's definition. You need to put in -some- effort to get gear but as people have pointed out before, it is super easy to get the ancient PvP gear now. Once you have that gear, you can use your Genesis crystals to buy weapons and disenchant them for frags and to buy enchantment stones. You can use Stellium coins to buy more Genesis crystals as well as buy legendary etium. You can do HM for more legendary etium and ap. AFKing in PvP instance (aside from dredg) gives you some enchantment stones and ap, even if you lose and don't get frags. Go to sieges and hit -something- to get more ap and enchantment stones. Play and the gear will happen, even if it's slower because you aren't geared enough to win most of the time. It won't take you 6 months.

If you quick queue for a PvP instance, you run the risk of getting someone that will be 100% afk or underleveled or undergeared. If you -make- a group, you can specify participation and gear level. You have NO right to be accepted into an LFG group. You have to meet the group makers standards and they can set those anyway they wish. They can even specify "must know you", which I always thought of as an odd requirement since you can send links for your group to all your friends if you wish. Many people seem really scared to make a group and I get that. But that is the way to get things done. You can't expect anyone else to care about your game and your progression. That isn't their job.

Thats not the problem here. The problem is the fragments added to these pvp instances. Before it was the "unlmited" gp you can get with luna resets, but after they removed that, it wasn't that big of an issue. And with that, a lot more "premade" groups happens, and for majority of the players who quick queue, their lose rate increases....... AND, YOU CAN QUEUE INTO SPECIFIC GAMES, making it worse. What do i mean by that? When queuing with a premade group, if the pvp instance pops soon, its most likely a premade group. If it takes a long time to find a group, it would probably be a quick queue pair up. These premade groups would then pass queues untill one that would "fit" their match. 

The risk of having an undergeared group,afk group and such isn't a problem, matchmaking is. I've won plenty of IB groups being paired with people who like "quick queing"  and theres several on both sides, winning against premades, and thats before fragments being added. 

 

3 hours ago, TINTINTIN-DN said:

IB requires 0 gear, if you know how to do the instance you can win easily, keep practicing and you will get better and stop losing

Thats hilarious. Same thing can be said about dredge right? Buy maxed gear and rush stones and leave? Theres people who doesn't even know how dredge works.. and same with IB. Theres people who literally didn't even do IB except when fragments were added.

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Aly-DN   
5 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Thats not the problem here. The problem is the fragments added to these pvp instances. Before it was the "unlmited" gp you can get with luna resets, but after they removed that, it wasn't that big of an issue. And with that, a lot more "premade" groups happens, and for majority of the players who quick queue, their lose rate increases....... AND, YOU CAN QUEUE INTO SPECIFIC GAMES, making it worse. What do i mean by that? When queuing with a premade group, if the pvp instance pops soon, its most likely a premade group. If it takes a long time to find a group, it would probably be a quick queue pair up. These premade groups would then pass queues untill one that would "fit" their match. 

The risk of having an undergeared group,afk group and such isn't a problem, matchmaking is. I've won plenty of IB groups being paired with people who like "quick queing"  and theres several on both sides, winning against premades, and thats before fragments being added. 

 

Thats hilarious. Same thing can be said about dredge right? Buy maxed gear and rush stones and leave? Theres people who doesn't even know how dredge works.. and same with IB. Theres people who literally didn't even do IB except when fragments were added.

So don't quick queue.

Look. I often quick enter with a friend or two for ID. We know going in that we may end up with the under-geared and under-leveled. We know that we may end up with an incomplete group or players that are 100% afk. We know that we may be matched against geared pre-mades and spend our entire time having a full group leap into our start to try and wipe our pathetic group over and over while laughing. Hell, I quick entered a KBF last weekend where the other side only had three players playing and they almost beat our group that had only 2 afks because other than my friend and I, no one else even had PvP gear and they kept serving themselves up to the 3 enemy players like little piggies with apples in their mouths! But there are times when those quick queue fights are more fun than a full premade. Times when we may run into another player or two that has gear and a brain and we smoke premades. Not often, but sometimes! Or it's two or three of us against a full team and we kick booty. The point is.. we chose to quick queue. Our decision. So we take the good and the bad and don't nyerk. 

That you are complaining that you don't win as much in a quick entry because frags were added and more pre-mades are queueing for these instances is asinine. ZOMG! I can't believe they made these instance have relevant rewards! Now I am going to loooooooooooooooooooooooose! Right. How dare the devs entice people to actually play. The horror.

P.S. The whole "a quick pop is a premade" isn't 100%. Most everyone firmly believes it, but I have taken insta pops that had pugs or no one on the other side. So you can't queue into a specific game with 100% certainty unless you are queuing a full pre-made enemy team and match up your timers.. and even that fails sometimes.

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Quote

 

Did you read through that whole thread? I was confused at first but the story came out as the thread progressed. It actually wasn't elitist. The LFG post was for "geared" and someone applied when they had not a single piece of PvP gear. In fact they were in quest level 76 PvE gear. That isn't geared by anyone's definition. 

 

 

 

It was elitist because it says to not apply to pvp instances. It doesn't say to not apply to premade groups who are asking for geared people.

Besides, its obvious that the person who did that is most likely someone playing an alt and on purpose tried to mooch on a geared team, not a noob who doesnt know what he is doing, as it is in most cases which this happens. It was 100% their fault for not gear checking a person who is not "known" in the server or going with someone they dont know. And it seems to be a thread generated after a salty defeat and rage quit where we cant even stabilish that one person would make a difference, looking at the names of the people who were killing them in the screenshot posted.

Quote

If you quick queue for a PvP instance, you run the risk of getting someone that will be 100% afk or underleveled or undergeared. If you -make- a group, you can specify participation and gear level. You have NO right to be accepted into an LFG group. You have to meet the group makers standards and they can set those anyway they wish. They can even specify "must know you", which I always thought of as an odd requirement since you can send links for your group to all your friends if you wish. Many people seem really scared to make a group and I get that. But that is the way to get things done. You can't expect anyone else to care about your game and your progression. That isn't their job.

but that is not the point. No one is saying that you have the right to be in anyones group. They are the ones who didnt gear check a complete stranger so its 100% their fault.

Quote

 The point is.. we chose to quick queue. Our decision. So we take the good and the bad and don't nyerk. 

Ok. So you take the good and the bad and dont nyerk. That still is not an argument to not add fragments to the losing side, since all other rewards are for both sides. 

Quote

That you are complaining that you don't win as much in a quick entry because frags were added and more pre-mades are queueing for these instances is asinine. ZOMG! I can't believe they made these instance have relevant rewards! Now I am going to loooooooooooooooooooooooose! Right. How dare the devs entice people to actually play. The horror.

Its not just a matter of fighting premades. Even when its not a premade theres a lot of people who still QE to fully afk, theres people who rage quit after first death, theres people who dont know what they are doing. Even if you make a group that happens.

 

Edited by Matsukamy-KT

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Aly-DN   

@Matsukamy-KT

The fighting spirit frags suddenly made mostly dead content useful again. Ofc there were players who always did ID and IB, but there were a lot more that had stopped doing them because there were easier and quicker ways to get what those instances gave. Now everyone is doing them because they want the frags. 

Giving frags to the losing team isn't going to discourage afkers or rage quitters or the clueless. In fact it's going to reward them and create more of them. There have been discussions here about removing -all- rewards from losing teams to insure that the only people entering the instances are those that are willing to play. I don't agree with that, but I am fine with restricting the best rewards (in this case frags) to only the team that wins.

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Ele-DN   
1 hour ago, Aly-DN said:

So don't quick queue.

Look. I often quick enter with a friend or two for ID. We know going in that we may end up with the under-geared and under-leveled. We know that we may end up with an incomplete group or players that are 100% afk. We know that we may be matched against geared pre-mades and spend our entire time having a full group leap into our start to try and wipe our pathetic group over and over while laughing. Hell, I quick entered a KBF last weekend where the other side only had three players playing and they almost beat our group that had only 2 afks because other than my friend and I, no one else even had PvP gear and they kept serving themselves up to the 3 enemy players like little piggies with apples in their mouths! But there are times when those quick queue fights are more fun than a full premade. Times when we may run into another player or two that has gear and a brain and we smoke premades. Not often, but sometimes! Or it's two or three of us against a full team and we kick booty. The point is.. we chose to quick queue. Our decision. So we take the good and the bad and don't nyerk. 

That you are complaining that you don't win as much in a quick entry because frags were added and more pre-mades are queueing for these instances is asinine. ZOMG! I can't believe they made these instance have relevant rewards! Now I am going to loooooooooooooooooooooooose! Right. How dare the devs entice people to actually play. The horror.

P.S. The whole "a quick pop is a premade" isn't 100%. Most everyone firmly believes it, but I have taken insta pops that had pugs or no one on the other side. So you can't queue into a specific game with 100% certainty unless you are queuing a full pre-made enemy team and match up your timers.. and even that fails sometimes.

Who said i quick queued all my games? Hell, i quick queued on my painter alt i plan on gearing up and won against a premade. Then 6 premade groups i made all lost except one where it was a free win. What bais is it against quick queing and losing? Only if game matching made more sense, then we wouldn't have this problem.

39 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

@Matsukamy-KT

The fighting spirit frags suddenly made mostly dead content useful again. Ofc there were players who always did ID and IB, but there were a lot more that had stopped doing them because there were easier and quicker ways to get what those instances gave. Now everyone is doing them because they want the frags. 

Giving frags to the losing team isn't going to discourage afkers or rage quitters or the clueless. In fact it's going to reward them and create more of them. There have been discussions here about removing -all- rewards from losing teams to insure that the only people entering the instances are those that are willing to play. I don't agree with that, but I am fine with restricting the best rewards (in this case frags) to only the team that wins.

LOL. Like harmony w/o rewards. Like dredge w/o stone rushes. Remember when players complain about no pvp? yet add more content to seperate people with near maxed out gear with people who don't/doesn't have enough time to gear up/ game play problems? yeah... keep doing that.

 

 

honestly why not go that route? lol no one would bother playing except those who p2w.

Edited by Ele-DN

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Ele-DN   
52 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Its not just a matter of fighting premades. Even when its not a premade theres a lot of people who still QE to fully afk, theres people who rage quit after first death, theres people who dont know what they are doing. Even if you make a group that happens.

 

Pretty much all my premade groups i made, there is someone nyerking up the whole run.

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21 hours ago, Ele-DN said:

Add these to the losing side of KB IB and ID. 

  I made a thread about this 2 weeks ago after playing all the instances that now give fight fragments for 1 week not much people responded to it and I was surprised because the problems are very noticeable even in premade groups. I've done both premade and quick entry groups on various toons

Edited by Briearios-DN

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Ele-DN   
30 minutes ago, waffles-DN said:

Just make some friends and you'll never lose IB ^-^

Er... what? You mean statics that play together 24/7 if possible and use voice chat? The ones that should play against other premade statics with voice chat etc? There wouldn't be any dodging for free wins against pugs?

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Ele-DN   
35 minutes ago, Briearios-DN said:

  I made a thread about this 2 weeks ago after playing all the instances that now give fight fragments for 1 week not much people responded to it and I was surprised because the problems are very noticeable even in premade groups. I've done both premade and quick entry groups on various toons

It was dumb to not add any to the losing team in the first place. 

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It's completely unnecessary to add more rewards for the losing teams in these instances, especially IB where your gear doesn't even matter. There are plenty of other methods to get fragments, and that's how most of us have been gearing up since 6.0 dropped. These new instance fragments have made things faster and easier, but it's not like they're the only source of gear progression. Honestly these posts remind me of all the afkers in Pandora lobbies when it was first introduced. In Pandora, if you lose you don't get jack squat- there's no compensation goodies if you're trying to get something for nothing. So if you don't want to play and participate, don't play. And I'm sorry for all your unfortunate quick queues and pugs, but if you don't want to actively collaborate with other players and make friends with reliable people to make progress together, an MMO probably isn't the game for you. 

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Ele-DN   
13 minutes ago, Haniya-DN said:

It's completely unnecessary to add more rewards for the losing teams in these instances, especially IB where your gear doesn't even matter. There are plenty of other methods to get fragments, and that's how most of us have been gearing up since 6.0 dropped. These new instance fragments have made things faster and easier, but it's not like they're the only source of gear progression. Honestly these posts remind me of all the afkers in Pandora lobbies when it was first introduced. In Pandora, if you lose you don't get jack squat- there's no compensation goodies if you're trying to get something for nothing. So if you don't want to play and participate, don't play. And I'm sorry for all your unfortunate quick queues and pugs, but if you don't want to actively collaborate with other players and make friends with reliable people to make progress together, an MMO probably isn't the game for you. 

With that logic, it was unnecessary to add fragments to these instances then. The point of these are really for ancient pvp stones, you know dredge? is that not enough? As you said, theres plenty of other ways to get fragments, so why are the 99% of the people playing are complaining about how difficult it is to get fragments? They're welcome to farm Ancient Alcemium like every new player, and 50% of the population missing out on legend and ultimate Alcemium because of faction inbalance. good logic?

 

If you're complaining about afkers... then you're probably complete rubbish to carry. Pandora is a "quick queue" instances and just like pvp ones, you don't have to join. You're welcome to make your own premade with w/e expectations you have in a premade group. like full ultimate +9+ stigmas legend xform etc...

 

unfortunate quick queues... like you mean you have to rely on other peoples gear/knowledge to play the game? 

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1 hour ago, Ele-DN said:

As you said, theres plenty of other ways to get fragments, so why are the 99% of the people playing are complaining about how difficult it is to get fragments?

PvP Gear extraction - Fighting Fragments

From the spreadsheet, going by the Genesis Crystal route:

Each single unit of Fighting Spirit Fragments costs approximately:

  • Genesis Crystal Equipment method:
    • 26 Genesis Crystals (Gear Purchase)
    • 1600 - 4800 AP (Extraction Cost depending on equipment slot)

OR

  • T1 Ancient PvP Equipment crafting method
    • 12.5 Ancient Magic Crystal
    • 1 Ancient Alcemium
    • 82500 Kinah (Plus taxes)
    • 1600 - 4800 AP (Extraction Cost depending on equipment slot)

(Recommended to disassemble Legendary and Ultimate Magic Crystals into Ancients)

(T2 equipment crafting not recommended)

Lakrum / Demeha Magic Crystal Drop Rates

Give the above drop rate spreadsheet, assuming no prestige or drop buffs, and all legendary/ultimate magic crystals are disassembled into ancients, each single Fighting Spirit Fragment will need:

(one of the following)

  • 14.7 Lakrum Drop-eligible mob kills
  • 10.4 Demaha Drop-eligible mob kills

Plus

  • One named leader mob kill (Alliance loot)

Drop boost buffs have a very limited effect on Magic Crystal drop rates.

Edited by TheSecretCowLeve-KT

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1 hour ago, Ele-DN said:

With that logic, it was unnecessary to add fragments to these instances then. The point of these are really for ancient pvp stones, you know dredge? is that not enough? As you said, theres plenty of other ways to get fragments, so why are the 99% of the people playing are complaining about how difficult it is to get fragments? They're welcome to farm Ancient Alcemium like every new player, and 50% of the population missing out on legend and ultimate Alcemium because of faction inbalance. good logic?

 

If you're complaining about afkers... then you're probably complete rubbish to carry. Pandora is a "quick queue" instances and just like pvp ones, you don't have to join. You're welcome to make your own premade with w/e expectations you have in a premade group. like full ultimate +9+ stigmas legend xform etc...

 

unfortunate quick queues... like you mean you have to rely on other peoples gear/knowledge to play the game? 

Not at all. The community has been requesting additional means of acquiring Fighting Spirit Fragments for ages, and I think adding them to a few instance reward lists and events was a great decision, because it encourages and rewards gameplay. Making them a reward for losing these instances only encourages people to afk even more than they already do. Seriously, what's the point of playing and trying to win if you get the same reward bundle for losing? There has to be something to incentivize people to play actively, and in these cases it's the prospect of fragments.

And I'm not complaining about afkers- just drawing a comparison between Pandora lobbies and IB/ID/KBF, in that if you want fancy loot goodies you need majority participation for the win, and that I am happy with this arrangement. Some people want loser rewards for Pandora too, and I also think that's unnecessary.  

I don't have unfortunate quick queues to complain about on the forums every week, because I form my own groups, run with people I know, or I quick queue with the full expectation that I'll give the instance a go if everyone else wants to play and contentedly afk if they don't. I don't have any reason to be upset with quick queue team members for afking or being undergeared when I know how the system works and what I'm getting myself into. :P 

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Since the fragment change was introduced i only did 20 IBs and 19 of them were empty because everyone is dodging to get their alts. Done maybe 8 IDs and only 1 of them had people in it rest were empty. Notice i am saying empty not afkers.

Anyone arguing against giving the people who go in regardless of a 100% win or not are just the players that support game breaking mechanics.

Edited by HealingSquid-KT

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