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Arhangelos-KT

7.2 PvP Tier by class

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10 minutes ago, Cheesecake-DN said:

RIP Sorc

Sorc died a few years already. We are still waiting for the devs to remember that this class exists and update it to the new era 6.+. Sorcs still live in 5.8

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40 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

Sorc died a few years already. We are still waiting for the devs to remember that this class exists and update it to the new era 6.+. Sorcs still live in 5.8

yup. I loved my sorc, too. T_T

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2 hours ago, Chibi-DN said:

Godstone vision skill weapons will come back to haunt everyone again in 7.5

Yes they deleted the game to revamp it and now they bring back everything that made it bad. Godstones and proc items favor sins, gunners and generally classes that hit a lot of skills in a short time. By the time a sorc casts one big ulti skill, an assassin has done like 20 skills so he has 20 times more chances to proc something based on attacks.

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1 hour ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

I dont think many people in Korea would agree with that tier list, specially when it comes to the placing of Clerics, Sorcs and Glads.

It's far more balanced than he makes it look like also.

And you sorc players should follow naengpa stream.

http://bj.afreecatv.com/qzxw123/vods

The problem with people suggesting we see a pro sorcerer pvp is that there is the notion that sorcs are just as good as every class omitting the small letters
(that only if they are super pro at pvp with 0 ping and good gear and enemies that might not be that good at their class or that the situation allows for it, or all of them combined).

If this guy was playing a Vandal for example he would have killed all the groups that attacked him and wouldn't die a single time. Those videos say nothing about the sorcerer class, they say about the guy, about the enemies he faced and about the situational chances of him winning or dying. What is sure is that he is good at it but he could have been deadlier if he chose a good class. I just saw a cleric on those videos the guy kept almost killing him and the cleric went full HP like 3 times.

I am in full T2+15 with m.def/p.def retunes when possible and I remember that gladiator hit me like 18k dmg or something, none of my skills can do 18k dmg to him if he is fully geared like me and my big skills need to be cast to deal good dmg. So a class that has more HP than me and more defense than me does more dmg to me than I do to him. There are plenty of conditional situations that a sorc can beat any enemy. While I am doing my lakrum weeklies for example, I almost never die, unless I face an OP enemy (like a ulti T2 vandal or a sin that can kill me in 1 second) and I always do them solo. I do not regard myself a pro pvper for sure since I am no longer playing actively since the days I became a governor when I cared about the game.

Our problem is that Sorcs are no longer an offensive class (if they ever were), they are not a defensive class (they have the weakest defenses in the game) and they are not healers for sure. We don't throw ourselves in the battle like most classes do, either they are tanks, or hybrids, or healers... they can throw themselves in combat offensively.

We are not asking for tips on how to win while playing the shitiest class, we just ask not to be the shittiest class and need to get a masters degree in sorc-playing in order to stand equal chances at pvp vs all other classes.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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If this guy was playing a Vandal for example he would have killed all the groups that attacked him and wouldn't die a single time. Those videos say nothing about the sorcerer class, they say about the guy, about the enemies he faced and about the situational chances of him winning or dying.

Its kind of a bold claim that he would beat everyone without dying if he was a painter, but even so, painter is the most op class, what do you want is to sorc to be as OP ? And he is not even the best or something.

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am in full T2+15 with m.def/p.def retunes when possible and I remember that gladiator hit me like 18k dmg or something, none of my skills can do 18k dmg to him if he is fully geared like me and my big skills need to be cast to deal good dmg

I find that to be very weird because I see him doing 30, 40k damage to classes that are not even plate and with many skills, so theres something really off on your stats or something.

 

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3 hours ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Its kind of a bold claim that he would beat everyone without dying if he was a painter, but even so, painter is the most op class, what do you want is to sorc to be as OP ? And he is not even the best or something.

I find that to be very weird because I see him doing 30, 40k damage to classes that are not even plate and with many skills, so theres something really off on your stats or something.

I have almost 19k m.attack and if I use my daevanion skill it gets insane, nothing weird about my m.attack or skills. He probably was attacking ungeared people too obviously, I have also hit people for 40k when it did critical (I guess they must have been on legendaries), his streaming isn't selective, he puts everything there even when he rests and afks or when eh faces ungeared people too.

I do not want sorcs to be as op as vandals, vandals need to be halved in dps to get reasonable as a class, what I am saying is that every class that is fully geared can practically play against the sorc better than the sorc can play against them. Every class has enough dps just like a true dps but at the same time they have their special skills. Clerics have finished Crucible Spire floor 24 easier than sorcs for example, lets that sink in for a moment. Yes they went dps build but they are still healers. Does sorcerer have a healing build for example?

Also sorcs are not playing against themselves in pvp or against a dummy, the enemy will most likely know how to play his class and since most classes are dps gods now they can easily just vanish a sorc. As I mentioned with a full T2+15 and selective retunes on p.def and m.def I can still die in 1~2 seconds by a geared sin, can a sorc kill a sin in 1~2 seconds? No, so this shows the imbalance between classes.

And I would accept it if sorc was a hybrid or a tank class, but sorc is none of these, he should at least be top dps, out of every class, we have the least amount of HP, least defensive skills and we are made of paper.

The guy in the video that ranked the tiers said it clearly "sorc just doesn't have the dps to kill anyone". And it is not only our dps to the enemy, it is also the dps from the enemy towards us, what is good to have a 2 second sleep if I can die in 2 seconds with 20 hits that half of them are stuns, silences, knockdown or pulls?

They just forgot to upgrade our skills to 6.0+, if you remember they had forgotten SM too and the pets were useless etc, but then they upgraded them and SM became again the pvp gods they always were.
Gunslingers used to also be a laughing stock in 6.2 too but they also got everything boosted eventually, their defensive  shields are op and they are still a dps class with plenty of offensiveness. They have a shield that gives them +3000 pvp defense for how many seconds, at that time they literally take 2-digit dmg from most classes! My shield absorbs 3,5k dmg, someone could melee hit me without a skill and still break my shield and do dps on top of it.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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He probably was attacking ungeared people too obviously, I have also hit people for 40k when it did critical (I guess they must have been on legendaries), his streaming isn't selective, he puts everything there even when he rests and afks or when eh faces ungeared people too.

Could you provide a link to said stream ?

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 Clerics have finished Crucible Spire floor 24 easier than sorcs for example, lets that sink in for a moment. Yes they went dps build but they are still healers. Does sorcerer have a healing build for example?

No, but sorc isnt a healing class, it has CC skills, it's not the same kind of class, but this has nothing to do with that.  Clerics were top at crucible even before, and it has been sort of op class for a long time now, so what would be the point of comparing them.

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Also sorcs are not playing against themselves in pvp or against a dummy, the enemy will most likely know how to play his class and since most classes are dps gods now they can easily just vanish a sorc. As I mentioned with a full T2+15 and selective retunes on p.def and m.def I can still die in 1~2 seconds by a geared sin, can a sorc kill a sin in 1~2 seconds? No, so this shows the imbalance between classes.

Well, in the other thread we were talking about this, I posted a link of Korean sins and sorcs dueling. The sorc managed to do well, despite de fact that sins are supposed to be sorcs anti class. Of course, you need good fingers and reflexes for the match up, but well, you need that if you want to play sorc(the same can be said about the sin). It's a max geared sin, so your claim that sorcs will die to a sin before the chance of doing anything is just not true.

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The guy in the video that ranked the tiers said it clearly "sorc just doesn't have the dps to kill anyone". And it is not only our dps to the enemy, it is also the dps from the enemy towards us, what is good to have a 2 second sleep if I can die in 2 seconds with 20 hits that half of them are stuns, silences, knockdown or pulls?

But that is simply not true. I dont know if he is actually using the footage that shows in his video as real example, but what he shows is a guy who doesnt use the dps tree, doesnt have stigmas +12, doesnt have rank s minion, and probably is not max geared as well, from the damage it shows.

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They just forgot to upgrade our skills to 6.0+, if you remember they had forgotten SM too and the pets were useless etc, but then they upgraded them and SM became again the pvp gods they always were.
Gunslingers used to also be a laughing stock in 6.2 too but they also got everything boosted eventually, their defensive  shields are op and they are still a dps class with plenty of offensiveness. They have a shield that gives them +3000 pvp defense for how many seconds, at that time they literally take 2-digit dmg from most classes! My shield absorbs 3,5k dmg, someone could melee hit me without a skill and still break my shield and do dps on top of it.

Nah, that is just an exageration. SMs were ok on 6.2, gunslingers had a 7sec CD supressing fire, which was awesome till they nerfed it. The class that were hit hard on 6.0 update were sins and templars, while glads chanters and rangers were made gods.

But I can assume from what you are saying that pre 6.0 you could beat pretty much every class with sorc right ?

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Of course, sorc being one of the least played classes currently whenever I check in this patch it's pure coincidental, when historically ( I played since beta) as a rough rule of thumb the numbs of sorcs= glads. Of course, since then we've had SWs and vandals introduced, but this is the only patch where the numbers have consistently been this low, to the point that sometimes almost every class outnumbers them when I check. I guess all of them just need to L2P. 

Or just maybe--  at least 75% figured out that they could have better rewards and more enjoyment, with less work  and less frustration by re-rolling or quitting.

Edited by Rapier-DN

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1 hour ago, Rapier-DN said:

Of course, sorc being one of the least played classes currently whenever I check in this patch it's pure coincidental, when historically ( I played since beta) as a rough rule of thumb the numbs of sorcs= glads. Of course, since then we've had SWs and vandals introduced, but this is the only patch where the numbers have consistently been this low, to the point that sometimes almost every class outnumbers them when I check. I guess all of them just need to L2P. 

Or just maybe--  at least 75% figured out that they could have better rewards and more enjoyment, with less work  and less frustration by re-rolling or quitting.

The first sorc in arena is at 40th place or something. The class is bad, no matter what we say about game play etc, every class is a dps now, sorc lost his seat.

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4 hours ago, Zombiex-DN said:

u forget the main point
if u are bad u gonna suck with any class :D 

if you are bad and play a vandal/gladiator/templar, you can win some times, if you are bad and play a sorc, you might as well quit the game.
Same thing if you are good you can be good with any class, but you are ten times better with a vandal/sin/archer/Cleric/templar/glad than with a sorc.

It is not about people's abilities, the class is bad no matter how good or bad you are at playing it.

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14 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

if you are bad and play a vandal/gladiator/templar, you can win some times, if you are bad and play a sorc, you might as well quit the game.
Same thing if you are good you can be good with any class, but you are ten times better with a vandal/sin/archer/Cleric/templar/glad than with a sorc.

It is not about people's abilities, the class is bad no matter how good or bad you are at playing it.

In conclusion, the skill ceiling required to master a sorc is much higher than other classes. Most players would prefer instant gratification than persevering with a class that requires fast reflexes, reaction and skill. 

Sm, on the other hand is a broken af class designed to cater for the mentally disadvantaged people. Fact is no one likes SMs. 

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6 hours ago, Voodoodoctor-DN said:

In conclusion, the skill ceiling required to master a sorc is much higher than other classes. Most players would prefer instant gratification than persevering with a class that requires fast reflexes, reaction and skill. 

Sm, on the other hand is a broken af class designed to cater for the mentally disadvantaged people. Fact is no one likes SMs. 

Yes and even if you hit the sorc ceiling the class itself is very limited, it is the lack of skills and offense in conjunction with survivability that all other classes seem to have. You must outplay others in order for this to work.

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Ryzin-DN   

Sorcs odian skills,

 

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/6345

Looks like sorcs get meterorite skill back, this time no knockback but a 30% heal reduction debuff. If google translate is correct, it can not be dispelled.

 

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/6346

An aoe snare around caster, instant cast.

 

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/6347

Reduces damage by 30%, 1 min cd. Google translate saids "In the meantime, the skill is unavailable." Not sure if that means you are unable to use skills while the buff is up. 

Edited by Ryzin-DN

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14 hours ago, Ryzin-DN said:

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/6347

Reduces damage by 30%, 1 min cd. Google translate saids "In the meantime, the skill is unavailable." Not sure if that means you are unable to use skills while the buff is up. 

They are well known for giving sorcs weird shield that either do little or when they do something good they render the class useless. Also if you check the skill icon it looks like our other shield that blocks only physical damage
live_wi_physicalwall_g1.png Boon of Iron Clad

odi_physicalwall.png Odian buff

~~
It is like our vision stigma shield, it blocks some dmg but we are frozen and unable to move while it lasts (immobilized is wrong translation, we are actually petrified).

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/1420

mZHzbLN.jpg

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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Ryzin-DN   
10 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

They are well known for giving sorcs weird shield that either do little or when they do something good they render the class useless. Also if you check the skill icon it looks like our other shield that blocks only physical damage
live_wi_physicalwall_g1.png Boon of Iron Clad

odi_physicalwall.png Odian buff

~~
It is like our vision stigma shield, it blocks some dmg but we are frozen and unable to move while it lasts (immobilized is wrong translation, we are actually petrified).

https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/1420

mZHzbLN.jpg

You can see at 1:23 mark that he uses that odian shield and can move, but he does not use any skills. Not sure if he did not want to or you are unable to. 

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16 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

They are well known for giving sorcs weird shield that either do little or when they do something good they render the class useless.

So true about that, we used to have a shield that blocked everything for a few seconds, but that skill puted us in stuned state that we were unable to remove it with the remove shock skill, wtf with that  skill?? good thing we dont have it anymore

Edited by Vessttemona-KT

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14 hours ago, Ryzin-DN said:

You can see at 1:23 mark that he uses that odian shield and can move, but he does not use any skills. Not sure if he did not want to or you are unable to. 

Apparently this is a shield that allows you to move (so not petrified like our vision stigma shield) but you are self-silenced. Something in between an actual shield and a petrification shield, not as good as an actual shield but not as limiting as a petrification shield.

 

9 hours ago, Vessttemona-KT said:

So true about that, we used to have a shield that blocked everything for a few seconds, but that skill puted us in stuned state that we were unable to remove it with the remove shock skill, wtf with that  skill?? good thing we dont have it anymore

Yes our shield suck, some classes do have shields that kinda limit their offensive ability but many classes also have shields that render them invincible for a said amount of seconds while they are still killing machines.

Sorcs never got a shield that is an actual god-sent shield like many classes have. I remember that skill and the vision stigma kinda took its place later.

The skill name was "Barrier of Severance" or something

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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