DN-Elyos Governor+Commander Trolls? Not again please.

[Sachibi-DN]

2 minutes ago, Lumin-DN said:

Truth, here.  

While abusive language is not acceptable, it's not NCsoft's job to regulate player behavior regarding activity in sieges.  If a governor refuses to cooperate with his or her faction, I would argue that it's up to the faction to either feed a replacement to knock the governor out of position, or deal with having a recalcitrant governor in other ways.  Israphel Asmodian lived with Alaryl for years, and he's long been unwilling to actually help the faction.  He wasn't as bad in this regard as the Pocos seem to be, but we basically just didn't have a sieging governor for most of our sieges, and that's just how it was.  

 

The mechanics are dumb, and we should be asking NCsoft to change them, rather than asking them to 'do something about the Pocos'.

As i said before too.... we are not only talking about abusive language or cooperate with elyos faction. the FACT is they are doing all againts the players for block elyos. is not a simple "I don't want to help". understand this. 

[Calista-DN]

41 minutes ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

Since the current siege mechanic makes the gov the default lead of a coalition, what would happen, say, if when more than one fort was vulnerable, everyone that didn't want to be in the gov's coalition formed one for the other fort? I know it takes at least one alliance to form a coalition, are you saying that you couldn't scrape together that many people who don't support the gov to do that?

And wouldn't that partially fix the problem?

Heck, I might even come back to seiging just to be in the non-gov coalition.

I'm not sure whether it's sad or funny to see another server go through the same things that we had on Tiamat.  I'm just waiting to see the reaction when the Pocos start  dropping into each alliance  on their main or one of their alts literally every few seconds to see what's going on when we try this.

[ApoIonia-DN]

8 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

  I'm just waiting to see the reaction when the Pocos start  dropping into each alliance  on their main or one of their alts literally every few seconds to see what's going on when we try this.

And you've never had spies in your alliances before? Did you people really and truly forget how to siege?

[Forgotten-DN]

24 minutes ago, Lumin-DN said:

The mechanics are dumb, and we should be asking NCsoft to change them, rather than asking them to 'do something about the Pocos'.

Why not both? Telling them to do something about the Pocos lets them know that their system is being abused (even if it's technically toeing the line specified by ToS agreements) and doesn't work for Westerners. It also lets NCWest know that they actually need to change game mechanics to cater to us rather than just doing simple translations when giving us game updates, or failing that, ensure that such abuse is minimized. If NCWest does handle the Pocos, it gives them the added benefit of coming across as responsive to player base concerns.

[Calista-DN]

14 minutes ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

And you've never had spies in your alliances before? Did you people really and truly forget how to siege?

Those of us who siege every day,  certainly haven't forgotten.   Again, as you haven't sieged in a while, and never under the present system or the present leadership, you are the person who is unfamiliar with the game currently, not us. You therefore don't even understand why there are problems with your partial solution (which does work sometimes, it just isn't easy).

You don't even credit the experience of people who have been through this  for months, which  is really odd.

[Sachibi-DN]

21 minutes ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

And you've never had spies in your alliances before? Did you people really and truly forget how to siege?

hey apolonia, stop to divert the point. really dude.... every time you write something u try justify things that we are not talking about.

[ApoIonia-DN]

10 minutes ago, Calista-DN said:

Those of us who siege every day,  certainly haven't forgotten.   Again, as you haven't sieged in a while, and never under the present system or the present leadership, you are the person who is unfamiliar with the game currently, not us. You therefore don't even understand why there are problems with your partial solution (which does work sometimes, it just isn't easy).

You don't even credit the experience of people who have been through this  for months, which  is really odd.

Are you saying that since I haven't sieged this week (I guess that is what is considered 'a while' now), I'm misinformed and in the dark about sieges? And again, I do understand that you folks are frustrated with the way it was, but there are a LOT more people now who are NOT the people you are nyerking about. That part you don't seem to be taking into consideration. It seems that if the particular individuals are as bad as everyone says, your team got a whole lot more support with this merge than theirs did.

[ApoIonia-DN]

10 minutes ago, Sachibi-DN said:

hey apolonia, stop to divert the point. really dude.... every time you write something u try justify things that we are not talking about.

And you are so focused on NC Soft making people play their toons the way YOU want them to. If you want to control how the governor uses the governor perks, get off your dead nyerk and become governor. You should be petitioning NC Soft to change the system that allows and promotes this type of behavior instead of getting them to ban people you just don't fell play like you think they should. Who died and made you the arbiter of how everyone is supposed to play aion? One thing I have learned from my time in the forums - Aion is designed for self-centered greedy nyerks to take advantage of people.  When 12 people gank a lowbie, the game is working as designed but when the gov puts a coalition kisk where you don't like it he is breaking the rules - please explain the difference? Sure, the current system is the pits but it's the system we've got - either deal with it or get NC Soft to change it. And btw, nobody forces you to go to siege - if you don't like it and it;s not fun - just don't do it. Or are you really that dependent on those 3 lousy instances that a) aren't fun and b) don't give that much in rewards?

And the only thing I've seen about your point is 'These people don't play Aion the way I want them to - NC Soft should ban them' and seriously, if what you have said means different let me know. You have yet to point out what part of what they are doing in siege is against the rules. So like I said in an earlier post, just like ya'll all told me about the open world gankfest - deal with it. Every update since the removal of Katalam and Danaria has lead to an environment that further encourages griefing and abuse, it would seem that our current governor has just carried NC Soft's plan to its logical conclusion.

[Sachibi-DN]

Just now, ApoIonia-DN said:

And you are so focused on NC Soft making people play their toons the way YOU want them to. If you want to control how the governor uses the governor perks, get off your dead nyerk and become governor. You should be petitioning NC Soft to change the system that allows and promotes this type of behavior instead of getting them to ban people you just don't fell play like you think they should. Who died and made you the arbiter of how everyone is supposed to play aion? One thing I have learned from my time in the forums - Aion is designed for self-centered greedy nyerks to take advantage of people.  When 12 people gank a lowbie, the game is working as designed but when the gov puts a coalition kisk where you don't like it he is breaking the rules - please explain the difference? Sure, the current system is the pits but it's the system we've got - either deal with it or get NC Soft to change it. And btw, nobody forces you to go to siege - if you don't like it and it;s not fun - just don't do it. Or are you really that dependent on those 3 lousy instances that a) aren't fun and b) don't give that much in rewards?

And the only thing I've seen about your point is 'These people don't play Aion the way I want them to - NC Soft should ban them' and seriously, if what you have said means different let me know. You have yet to point out what part of what they are doing in siege is against the rules. So like I said in an earlier post, just like ya'll all told me about the open world gankfest - deal with it. Every update since the removal of Katalam and Danaria has lead to an environment that further encourages griefing and abuse, it would seem that our current governor has just carried NC Soft's plan to its logical conclusion.

no, we are talking about something and you start to defend another stuff.... we write a full post and u pick 1 little thing there and divert the point automatically.if u want to deffend ur point of vew its okay, but dont divert the topic. 

check, what the hell is that, u are defending the fact of have spies in ally, but who is talking about this????  read principal post please:

1 hour ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

And you've never had spies in your alliances before? Did you people really and truly forget how to siege?

 

[Calista-DN]

9 minutes ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

And you are so focused on NC Soft making people play their toons the way YOU want them to. If you want to control how the governor uses the governor perks, get off your dead nyerk and become governor. You should be petitioning NC Soft to change the system that allows and promotes this type of behavior instead of getting them to ban people you just don't fell play like you think they should. Who died and made you the arbiter of how everyone is supposed to play aion? One thing I have learned from my time in the forums - Aion is designed for self-centered greedy nyerks to take advantage of people.  When 12 people gank a lowbie, the game is working as designed but when the gov puts a coalition kisk where you don't like it he is breaking the rules - please explain the difference? Sure, the current system is the pits but it's the system we've got - either deal with it or get NC Soft to change it. And btw, nobody forces you to go to siege - if you don't like it and it;s not fun - just don't do it. Or are you really that dependent on those 3 lousy instances that a) aren't fun and b) don't give that much in rewards?

And the only thing I've seen about your point is 'These people don't play Aion the way I want them to - NC Soft should ban them' and seriously, if what you have said means different let me know. You have yet to point out what part of what they are doing in siege is against the rules. So like I said in an earlier post, just like ya'll all told me about the open world gankfest - deal with it. Every update since the removal of Katalam and Danaria has lead to an environment that further encourages griefing and abuse, it would seem that our current governor has just carried NC Soft's plan to its logical conclusion.

If you can't deal with PVP, or being ganked, they may well be your own personal issue, in which case you may well prefer another game.  Certainly, for those of us who have been with the game since it started, we are very used to to it. We either pick ourself up and learn to deal with it and/or enjoy it, or-  pick another game.  To each their own, Aion is certainly not the only game around.

It is however a MMO, as such, it inherently requires cooperation in certain aspects, in which case NCSoft's game design of the coalition has by no means indicated that a rogue or lone wolf should by any means be rewarded, in fact the coalition system inherently rewards and promotes alliance and faction cohesion. 

Finally, some people may justify the actions of some people to say that "anything goes", and then they wonder why the community is so toxic. Well, "anything goes" is not the attitude of everyone, don't fool yourself.

[HyeRim-DN]

@ApoIonia-DN you shouldnt send threats via private forum messages.Those can be used against you as well. And What kind of apology do you expect?As i can see you are still trying to divert the original topic.

[Cheesecake-DN]

4 minutes ago, HyeRim-DN said:

@ApoIonia-DN you shouldnt send threats in private forum messages.Those can be used against you as well. And What kind of apology do you expect?As i can see you are still trying to divert the original topic.

You can report PMs, too, and Cyan will be able to see them. : x It's really neat.

 

Edit:

Just hit "Report reply" on the top right corner of the PM.

[HyeRim-DN]

1 minute ago, Cheesecake-DN said:

You can report PMs, too, and Cyan will be able to see them. : x It's really neat.

 

Edit:

Just hit "Report reply" on the top right corner of the PM.

Thanks. 

[ApoIonia-DN]

4 minutes ago, Sachibi-DN said:

no, we are talking about something and you start to defend another stuff.... we write a full post and u pick 1 little thing there and divert the point automatically.if u want to deffend ur point of vew its okay, but dont divert the topic. 

check, what the hell is that, u are defending the fact of have spies in ally, but who is talking about this????  read principal post please:

 

It seems that I am not the one that knows how to read - the post I responded to was related to 'omg what will people do when these people or their alts join our alliances'. I comment on the near panic that you are trying to create in an effort to get people who don't play the way you want them to banned. You have yet to say that is NOT your goal here.

 

1 minute ago, HyeRim-DN said:

@ApoIonia-DN you shouldnt send threats in private forum messages.Those can be used against you as well. And What kind of apology do you expect?As i can see you are still trying to divert the original topic.

Never sent a threat. You can feel free to post what I sent you so everyone can see. This is another example of you stating a falsehood and expecting everyone to believe you. I expect you to apologize for the misstatements you have made about me. If you can't own up to the fact that you were wrong or were just 'piling on' (which, i think can be classified as a form of abuse) then I think we have nothing left to say. Willfully refusing to correct the statements about me are an indication that you knew they were false when you made them instead of in error. Therefor, as a proven liar, nothing you have said can be believed.

[HyeRim-DN]

10 minutes ago, ApoIonia-DN said:

It seems that I am not the one that knows how to read - the post I responded to was related to 'omg what will people do when these people or their alts join our alliances'. I comment on the near panic that you are trying to create in an effort to get people who don't play the way you want them to banned. You have yet to say that is NOT your goal here.

 

Never sent a threat. You can feel free to post what I sent you so everyone can see. This is another example of you stating a falsehood and expecting everyone to believe you. I expect you to apologize for the misstatements you have made about me. If you can't own up to the fact that you were wrong or were just 'piling on' (which, i think can be classified as a form of abuse) then I think we have nothing left to say. Willfully refusing to correct the statements about me are an indication that you knew they were false when you made them instead of in error. Therefor, as a proven liar, nothing you have said can be believed.

 

[Cheesecake-DN]

Seriously, just stop replying to her, guys. It's obvious that she's not willing or able to understand the point. Mouse over her name and click "Ignore User."

[HyeRim-DN]

Just now, Cheesecake-DN said:

Seriously, just stop replying to her, guys. It's obvious that she's not willing or able to understand the point. Mouse over her name and click "Ignore User."

Yup thats what i will do

[Lumin-DN]

1 hour ago, Forgotten-DN said:

Why not both? Telling them to do something about the Pocos lets them know that their system is being abused (even if it's technically toeing the line specified by ToS agreements) and doesn't work for Westerners. It also lets NCWest know that they actually need to change game mechanics to cater to us rather than just doing simple translations when giving us game updates, or failing that, ensure that such abuse is minimized. If NCWest does handle the Pocos, it gives them the added benefit of coming across as responsive to player base concerns.

Why not both?  Because it is not NC's job to force players to play a certain way.  

While the Poco's abusive language and actions are not acceptable, you also cannot force them to play the game how you want them to.  If they choose not to help in sieges, it is on their shoulders, not NC's.  

I am not in any way shape or form saying what they are doing is right, but I also see very little difference in what they're doing compared to how the Governor of Israphel Asmodians acted for the last 4 years.  The only difference I really see is that they're being especially insulting and condescendingly dickish to their faction.  Abusive language and actions are something NC should police, but they should not ever try to force players to play the game a certain way.

The mechanics are broken.  They should be fixed.  Nobody actually likes Coalitions as they're implemented, NC is aware of that, and will hopefully fix this - but it'll take time because NCWest is just Hime Cyan and Gideon trapped in a broom closet.  Getting major changes takes time.  This would be one such change.  

I totally understand the rage people are feeling.  I played under an unresponsive governor for years.  It sucks.  But it's their right to play how they want, minus the abusive behavior.  And not helping in sieges is not abusive in and of itself, sorry.  

[Rukie-DN]

I think/hope/pray they revert UA siege mechanics to the way it was before.  I rather have less active players roaming UA looking for AP then 3/4 of the faction standing AFK inside the fort.  Keep that leeching crap for sanctum/panda sieges.

[Lumin-DN]

I'd like the current sieges, but with the ability to join Coalitions with a group/alliance (then just have the game fill in all the extra open spots with pugs) and then have a little popup listing the top 10 highest ranked players in the coalition, and asking all alliance leaders which they want to lead the coalition.  Would fix all the problems with the current sieges.

[Calista-DN]

8 minutes ago, Lumin-DN said:

Why not both?  Because it is not NC's job to force players to play a certain way.  

While the Poco's abusive language and actions are not acceptable, you also cannot force them to play the game how you want them to.  If they choose not to help in sieges, it is on their shoulders, not NC's.  

I am not in any way shape or form saying what they are doing is right, but I also see very little difference in what they're doing compared to how the Governor of Israphel Asmodians acted for the last 4 years.  The only difference I really see is that they're being especially insulting and condescendingly dickish to their faction.  Abusive language and actions are something NC should police, but they should not ever try to force players to play the game a certain way.

The mechanics are broken.  They should be fixed.  Nobody actually likes Coalitions as they're implemented, NC is aware of that, and will hopefully fix this - but it'll take time because NCWest is just Hime Cyan and Gideon trapped in a broom closet.  Getting major changes takes time.  This would be one such change.  

I totally understand the rage people are feeling.  I played under an unresponsive governor for years.  It sucks.  But it's their right to play how they want, minus the abusive behavior.  And not helping in sieges is not abusive in and of itself, sorry.  

There is a very, very big difference between having someone who is unresponsive and someone  who is obstructive. You really can't compare the two cases, and please- before you go " oh you can't possibly know you aren't a IS asmo", I've had an IS asmo since Lumiel, in addition to unhelpful Governors before on Tiamat and Zikel.

If all that you are seeing is a few posts with some condescending posts, that's the tip of the iceberg.  If tat was all that went on, most of us wouldn't be spending our time here.

 

[ApoIonia-DN]

6 minutes ago, Lumin-DN said:

Why not both?  Because it is not NC's job to force players to play a certain way.  

While the Poco's abusive language and actions are not acceptable, you also cannot force them to play the game how you want them to.  If they choose not to help in sieges, it is on their shoulders, not NC's.  

I am not in any way shape or form saying what they are doing is right, but I also see very little difference in what they're doing compared to how the Governor of Israphel Asmodians acted for the last 4 years.  The only difference I really see is that they're being especially insulting and condescendingly dickish to their faction.  Abusive language and actions are something NC should police, but they should not ever try to force players to play the game a certain way.

The mechanics are broken.  They should be fixed.  Nobody actually likes Coalitions as they're implemented, NC is aware of that, and will hopefully fix this - but it'll take time because NCWest is just Hime Cyan and Gideon trapped in a broom closet.  Getting major changes takes time.  This would be one such change.  

I totally understand the rage people are feeling.  I played under an unresponsive governor for years.  It sucks.  But it's their right to play how they want, minus the abusive behavior.  And not helping in sieges is not abusive in and of itself, sorry.  

You seem to be the only one that gets it. So I guess I'm done - you folks ignore me, try to get players that don't play like you want them to banned and just keep that in mind when you aren't playing the way someone else thinks you should. 

You folks all take care.

[Lumin-DN]

Just now, Calista-DN said:

There is a very, very big difference between having someone who is unresponsive and someone  who is obstructive. You really can't compare the two cases, and please- before you go " oh you can't possibly know you aren't a IS asmo", I've had an IS asmo since Lumiel, in addition to unhelpful Governors before on Tiamat and Zikel.

While I agree there's a difference between Unresponsiveness and Obstruction, I respectfully disagree that they're not comparable.  They are similar, and both require the faction to work around the problem players.  If you really don't want them, then don't ever group with them, don't help them in any way, shun them.  IS-A did this with several known hackers and it forced them to quit.  

 

It's DN-E's job as a faction to deal with the Pocos.  Part of that dealing with -is- reporting their abusive language.  It's NCWest's job to ensure the mechanics aren't able to be abused so easily.  

[Plezurenpain-DN]

14 hours ago, Lumin-DN said:

Using expletives should never be cause for a ban, or any kind of administrative action. This game is has a mature rating.  As well there is it a built-in chat filter that allows you two bleep out curse words. If you don't want to see an F-bomb then just have that ticked in your options. Reporting other players for using curse words is dumb.

 

Note that using explosives is not the same as abusive language. you can thoroughly abuse someone with language without ever saying a "naughty" word.

First I'll correct you, the game has a rating of T for teen not M for mature.  Second I'll agree with you that there is a built-in profanity filter for Aion (as well as the majority of other online games).  The thing is, it is still against the TOS to cuss in chat.  Directly from the Conduct Breach and Outcomes page "Inappropriate in-game behavior, such as obscene, offensive, or racist talk or behavior; abuse of another player; harassment; etc" and the first bullet point on the page says "Don't swear or spam or break any laws."  Whether YOU agree with foul language being a punishable offense or not because you can simply turn the profanity filter on & not see it, NCSoft has deemed it punishable and against the rules.

In case you need a refresher on the TOS, you can read them all right here. 

[Channing-DN]

1 hour ago, Lumin-DN said:

Why not both?  Because it is not NC's job to force players to play a certain way.  

While the Poco's abusive language and actions are not acceptable, you also cannot force them to play the game how you want them to.  If they choose not to help in sieges, it is on their shoulders, not NC's.  

I am not in any way shape or form saying what they are doing is right, but I also see very little difference in what they're doing compared to how the Governor of Israphel Asmodians acted for the last 4 years.  The only difference I really see is that they're being especially insulting and condescendingly dickish to their faction.  Abusive language and actions are something NC should police, but they should not ever try to force players to play the game a certain way.

The mechanics are broken.  They should be fixed.  Nobody actually likes Coalitions as they're implemented, NC is aware of that, and will hopefully fix this - but it'll take time because NCWest is just Hime Cyan and Gideon trapped in a broom closet.  Getting major changes takes time.  This would be one such change.  

I totally understand the rage people are feeling.  I played under an unresponsive governor for years.  It sucks.  But it's their right to play how they want, minus the abusive behavior.  And not helping in sieges is not abusive in and of itself, sorry.  

Actually it is.  That's why NCSoft like most gaming companies have TOSes and limits in place as to what is and is not acceptable behavior.  

NCSoft created a system where too much power is thrust into the hands of a couple individuals.  Those individuals then have the power to disrupt the gameplay of 100s / 1000s of other users.  With this power should come some level of responsibility, and that level of responsibility should be defined by NCSoft.

Players that have this power should not be able to speak abusively to other players or purposely stand in the way of other players' progress.  

NCSoft can either change how the system works entirely, or regulate the behavior of those their systems put into power.

Or, I guess, they can let two trolls chase away numerous customers and suffer financially.  Aion is already now the least profitable MMO that NCSoft reports on in their financials.  So, it's really up to them.

That Lumin's faction is presently benefiting from this bad behavior, and that he feels it is okay because his faction suffered for years, is besides the point.

RE: Apolonia - I'm sorry, but suggesting that 100s of players change their playstyles to suit the whims of 2 trolls in power is not a solution to this issue.