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Skill changes for the upcoming update - 7.5 part 2 vs. 7.5 part 1


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3 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

Ah yes- the old "played right" card.  and a 'disgusting" class? what does that even mean? More disgusting that being knocked down, pulled, feared or stunned?

Glads have received so many buffs over the patches that you can't even say that glad vs sorc isn't in YOUR favour now.  Years ago sorcs could easily kill glads, they were their anti-class, just as rangers could easily kill sorcs.  

Same with a sorc vs a cleric. I mean- it isn't as though clerics have shields, dots and dispels..oh..wait. You do realize that sorcs really have negligible magic defenses? So again, is the fight there really a cakewalk for the sorc?

and for the classes who claim that only the "bads" are complaining..again... the numbers tell the story. Fewer people are playing sorc as a main, there's generally a good reason.

and @Treos-DN no one "just iron clads" for a win. Not since 3.x.  If he messes up and ironclads against you I doubt very much that it is that easy to win.

 If I read your  "hard counters"  correctly,  you're basically saying that sorcs would be on an equal footing  with  SMs, temps, SW, glads, clerics and ATs? i.e. "not a very hard time with" . Really? I doubt that very much.

 

 

 

Your @ me dealing with iron clad is wrong. I didn't say that. That was someone else. Every class in this game has counters even the "op" classes. Every class in this game also has some nice winning match ups.

 

2 hours ago, Ele-DN said:

Not quite. Sws -800 heal boost when in dps stigmas. 

-800... That's adorable.. *looks at sacrificial power*

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I think its clear to say that KR is better skilled then NA. And I dont want to have to survive off pots that i cant even buy an infinite amount of for cheap. I didnt buff up, but still looking at that

DPS goes up yes, Damage does go down.  Overall damage is lessened.   Earth Damage 2,297 -> 2,067 Initial Earth Damage over Time 34,455 -> 31,005 It will tick twice as often, for 10%

The problem is not the damage a sorc can do, @Arhangelos-KT, me and others who have sorcs have said it before the problem is the defence skills that are completly outdated, and now not only that, but

15 minutes ago, Malachyte-KT said:

My suggestion is to you is to find out what that difference is.  Accept the fact that perhaps you guys just didn't adjust to the changes to the class and your opponents in the later patches of the game vs when it was a lot easier in the earlier releases.

he also got banned for using that bot program for 7 days in the recent banwave, we are taking notes on how to adjust.

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32 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

No no no, you said you die in 4 skills, if a sorc kills you in 4 skill this is not an ability, it is a gear difference, that is simple pure math in the dmg formula.

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The conversation stops when you show the dmg of one sorc who happens to have it all vs an enemy who obviously doesn't How many sorcs have you seen doing this?

Pro is also finishing CS with 10 minutes left, the dmg output of his char is double than most sorcs with the typical "end game" gear. If every sorc had the exact amount of his offense then you would see every sorc doing good. He outgears most of you, 7.5 made it possible that only a handful few will have the best gear in game as long as they do 1000 runs in hard mode to get their end game gear from a pve source


...yes, that was a pure reply on the guy who said that to be governor you mastered something magical when gear + effort is the way.

Gear difference? My SM and Etrigan's Gladiator are 2 of the most geared for the class in NA. I have multiple PVP sets, WB Weapons, multiple AoA Bursting Accessories for the same slot but different stat or runestone/gemstone sockets for different purposes, multiple of ALL PFHM Accessories currently obtainable in game that some I don't even use over the Bursting gear for now since they are better until Ereshkigal is killable and the set piece bonuses are obtainable. Dazzling/Shinning gemstones. ALL gotten by my own groups and at times we ALL have switch out and gone with each other's grps or their members- we all communicate regularly and as needed.  And Etri and I hangout and shoot the shit almost on a nightly bases before I took a vacation from game. Hell, ETRIGAN is the freakin TANK in Pro's group! Pro's gear and my gear and Etrigan's gear are ALL comparable. Hell we all even have the solar and lunar weapons to boot so there is no advantage there either. If anything, Etrigan I think has a few more collections than us, but we all have quite a few and Ultimate Xforms. Pro and I unlocked my Kaisinel and his Marchutan like 10mins apart and were in private chat the whole time... Mon was in chat with us too, but we're not supposed to talk about that. hehehe

You guys just need to get it together as a class. And it's not just about Pro, I mentioned other sorcs that can murder just as efficiently. Pro must be loving the attention though.. 

17 minutes ago, Vorias-KT said:

he also got banned for using that bot program for 7 days in the recent banwave, we are taking notes on how to adjust.

Fair enough.. but what's that have to do with his ability to play his class or the other sorcs I mentioned that are just as talented? 

Edited by Malachyte-KT
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8 minutes ago, Malachyte-KT said:

You guys just need to get it together as a class

...so in short if you meteor wave does 43k dmg you got it together, if it does 10 dmg, you need to lern how to play your class. Gear has nothing to do with one sorc killing people in 4 shots while others throw all their ulties and the enemy still has half his HP up when the rotation is either identical or similar.

I am not picking on pro, he is obviously good in what he does, if his meteor and my meteor did the exact same dmg and he killed everyone while I couldn't then you could tell me about the rotation or not.

When one sorc's skill does x dmg and another sorcs same skill does 4x the dmg, then it is gear, it is pure damage formula right there.

And obviously it has to do with throwing your skills at the correct time with the right combo of debuffs and magic defense debuffs. Unless every sorc doesn't know that he needs flame fusion before the dmg skills then it is still gear difference.

If perma end game gear sorc is that good, then I'll accept the class is op, unless you have the utter end game gear the class is bottom tier, it is like SW with vs without the +15 daevanions and +15 stigmas then.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT
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If PvP sorc is such a big issue, then the nerfs and buffs should be adjusted around that. Sorc is not the most common class, and I feel right now sorc is at a great point in pve. High burst, low mobility, low def. But with that, by low def I mean gear wise. Without thundering spear... were losing any chance of actually surviving a couple hard hits in pve and having to rely helplessly on the clerics and chanters healing us. Dropping the life steal to 20% is absolutely ridiculous, I deal abut 92.7k damage to the training dummy, with no buffs and no crits that would heal me for 46.3k Hp, with the nerf that only heals me for 18.5k hp, that barely heals me for 1/4th of my hp. If sorcs are having the one healing abiity to be dropped down to 20%, then spirirt masters should as well. Unlike sorcs, sms have shields and a way of defense yet they get to keep their 50% hp skill... 

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7 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

...so in short if you meteor wave does 43k dmg you got it together, if it does 10 dmg, you need to lern how to play your class. Gear has nothing to do with one sorc killing people in 4 shots while others throw all their ulties and the enemy still has half his HP up.

I am not picking on pro, he is obviously good in what he does, if his meteor and my meteor did the exact same dmg and he killed everyone while I couldn't then you could tell me about the rotation or not.

When one sorc's skill does x dmg and another sorcs same skill does 4x the dmg, then it is gear, it is pure damage formula right there.

You read it wrong. I can already see that your understanding of the class isn't as good as you think it is. First off, that meteor wave of his is the red gemstone version used for the AoE dmg and Heal reduction and it didn't crit for 43k on a player, it crit for 43K on a Ranger Trap- unless you think Collision trap is a player's name lol. It did 13.5k on a player as a CRIT. 

I'm only picking on you. However, he isn't the only one as i mentioned before. Him and others were doing it since 7.0. Those KR players in 7.5 and 7.7 are doing it. If it just boils down to cubics and collections then well you may be out of luck. But, all signs point to you guys are simply missing out on some key aspects of the class atm.

Edited by Malachyte-KT
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15 minutes ago, Vasilios-KT said:

If PvP sorc is such a big issue, then the nerfs and buffs should be adjusted around that. Sorc is not the most common class, and I feel right now sorc is at a great point in pve. High burst, low mobility, low def. But with that, by low def I mean gear wise. Without thundering spear... were losing any chance of actually surviving a couple hard hits in pve and having to rely helplessly on the clerics and chanters healing us. Dropping the life steal to 20% is absolutely ridiculous, I deal abut 92.7k damage to the training dummy, with no buffs and no crits that would heal me for 46.3k Hp, with the nerf that only heals me for 18.5k hp, that barely heals me for 1/4th of my hp. If sorcs are having the one healing abiity to be dropped down to 20%, then spirirt masters should as well. Unlike sorcs, sms have shields and a way of defense yet they get to keep their 50% hp skill... 

Watch KR 7.5 sorc pvp vids, they are able to survive a bit better despite. Invest in Leibo protection pots (I do, that's a free 10k shield). My life steal on my SM on the training dummy in Ingisson did 61.7K and healed me for 30.8K HP and I debuffed the magic defense on it first by well over 3.7K . And I am more than likely much better geared than you presently. I had to stop, and cast a 2s cast skill with near max cast speed is .5s cast time. If yours didn't have a single crit, it did over 30K dmg more than mine and healed you for nearly 15k more all while being instant multi cast x 3 and able to be done while on the move. SM skills in general have a naturally lower chance to crit it seems, especially on dots, did you have full buffs up? I did.

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Wow.

Sounds like some sorc's here can't outplay people or just want to face tank players. Sorc is very strong once they get you on the ropes and can 100-0 or at least get you down to 25% in a burst. In comparison it's a very unfair fight to start with comparing my gear to any of those listed in the thread though. I know im lucky to kill those p2w sorcs down to 50% as an AT with +9-12 stigma with legendary xform vs their +15 and ult xform and xform collection.

2.5 was way better in terms of balance. At least you knew who was your counter class and could nyerk about it. Now you have to deal with p2w or the fact that we have glads and gunners and sm's running around being top.

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1 hour ago, Malachyte-KT said:

Watch KR 7.5 sorc pvp vids, they are able to survive a bit better despite. Invest in Leibo protection pots (I do, that's a free 10k shield). My life steal on my SM on the training dummy in Ingisson did 61.7K and healed me for 30.8K HP and I debuffed the magic defense on it first by well over 3.7K . And I am more than likely much better geared than you presently. I had to stop, and cast a 2s cast skill with near max cast speed is .5s cast time. If yours didn't have a single crit, it did over 30K dmg more than mine and healed you for nearly 15k more all while being instant multi cast x 3 and able to be done while on the move. SM skills in general have a naturally lower chance to crit it seems, especially on dots, did you have full buffs up? I did.

I think its clear to say that KR is better skilled then NA. And I dont want to have to survive off pots that i cant even buy an infinite amount of for cheap. I didnt buff up, but still looking at that with your pet you have like 3-4 shields that protect you and you can benefit from. I have about 1 good one, that cant even protect more then a SINGLE one of your shields. 2 of those shields dont even require stigmas, one blocks for 20k damage (mine does 8) with a 1:30 cooldown (mine is 2) the other blocks for 80% of the damage for 20 seconds with a 3 min cd. Youre able to summon and release a spirit at ease, about every 10 seconds while moving. 

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26 minutes ago, Etrigan-KT said:

Sounds like a lot of people in here want to be able to sit there and face tank whatever they are fighting. You're playing the wrong class. 

Sounds like you seriously have used pretty much every cliche in the book by now.

"learn your class"

"want to face tank"

"you're playing the wrong  class"

"sorcs are very strong once they do ..."

Yet NONE of you actually main sorc? If it's SO competitive, and so "disgusting" if played right - then funny all the people who are arguing so hard that sorc  are just fine- do not play sorcs.

Only someone with an IQ in the double digits plays sorc and tries to face tank in PVP, and I don't know any sorc mains  who are at all serious about PVP like that. None. Zero. 

So where you even came up with that, since most of the issues that the sorc mains have come up with have to do with HP recovery and shields which are still important for a class that can get debuffed, dotted, etc even if it is ranged since it is not very mobile  - since all I can think of from your face tank is that somehow a ranged class needs no HP recovery skills  as it take no damage?? Sorcs  must be so super smart they don't need any HP leeches that would convert  them to a tank?

Edited by Rapier-DN
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Clearly you main sorc and know very little as to what a capable sorc with max gear can do. I'm not sure what specifics you want. A max geared/transform sorc is lethal. It can bury his silence so fast and disable you from doing anything so he can sleep you, and do his burst rotation which is strong enough to 100-0 90-100k HP plate. If you do manage to keep him from binding you right off the band and burst him, he can still put up boon of iron clad and be able to keep himself stable and give himself enough time to sleep you... and then start his burst rotation... which can 100-0 you. You want me to break down a whole play by play /scenario for you? The point is that the damage is so insane and they can do it in one sleep. 

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4 hours ago, Etrigan-KT said:

Clearly you main sorc and know very little as to what a capable sorc with max gear can do. I'm not sure what specifics you want. A max geared/transform sorc is lethal. It can bury his silence so fast and disable you from doing anything so he can sleep you, and do his burst rotation which is strong enough to 100-0 90-100k HP plate. If you do manage to keep him from binding you right off the band and burst him, he can still put up boon of iron clad and be able to keep himself stable and give himself enough time to sleep you... and then start his burst rotation... which can 100-0 you. You want me to break down a whole play by play /scenario for you? The point is that the damage is so insane and they can do it in one sleep. 

Okay, im not trying to be mean in any way what so ever.... but thats uh -- sort of the entire point of sorc. BIG BIG damage, LOW LOW defense, low mobility. Ive never seen a single game out there where a sorc isnt a super strong bursty class, but is super hard to kill. Thats not what the stereotypical sorc is. Theyre not meant to live for long. And as I say, you either kill them fast or you die. Ive dueled glads before, and i burst them down quick while theyre rooted and slowed but the SECOND (im not kidding you, literally the second) they reach me and start doing skills (and i mean pvp geared glads), Im dead just gone. If I was given extreme damage and high defense with no required skill to play well, okay yeah I would agree thats stupidly broken. Not to mention, sorc would actually be popular. (*cough cough vandal cough cough*). But were not. And like I said before, you cant look at Pro and group every sorc in with that. Pro is a skilled, highly HIGHLY geared player that knows what hes doing, and at a place in the game 98% of the sorcs that have ever played aion probably wouldnt even reach. Ive been playing sorc for 6-7 years now (granted I only really started trying to get better at the game 2-3 years ago) and I dont even think Ill ever get to that skill level, even in the future. Sorc is a FANTASTIC class, if you know what youre doing. Ive seen some people (not in this post, just in the game) say that sorc is a really easy class, and isnt something difficult to learn... but theres definitely a skill level for it. Like how newer sorcs arent exposed to wind weaving like older ones are, as its not generally taught, and they may know it but just may not know the proper term for it. (WInd weaving  is the process of using 'Freezing Wind' or its Deavanion Skill type 'Raging Inferno' (for pve) in between every skill. Like flame fusion, raging inferno, ice harpoon, raging inferno etc.)  You have to know what your skills do, when to use them. Yeah any sorc can throw out 4000 nukes and get 3rd best damage, or be p2w and get all maxed gear throw out 4000 nukes and outdps everyone by insane damage. But the good sorcs are the ones that use their debuffs like lowering the magic def of bosses before attacking, and using skills in unique ways thats not common. Ive never seen Pro pvp before, nor do I know him personally, so I cant talk on his behalf. But he seems to know what hes doing, and when to do it, why to do it, and how to do it so he comes off on top. 

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If people think sorcs are so strong, wait until they find out about SW's that are basically sorcs on crack.

Sorc- no heals, no dispels, no silence/KB resist or sleep/fear resist, can not disepl a aoe sleep or fear from themselves or their group, no group buffs or shields, can not drain someones mana, and does not have very mobile DPS. 

Sw's- Heals, Dispels, has fear/sleep resist or silence/KB resist, can dispels themselves or group from fears/sleeps, can give buffs and shields to group, can drain mana, very mobile dps with short cd's and low cast time and can remove a buff.

 

Glacial Shard- 8.4k tooltip, 4 sec cast, 52 sec cd

Blazing Requiem- 13k tooltip, 3 sec cast, 42 sec cd.

How the devs came to the conclusion that a healing class with dispels and group buff should have higher damage, less cast time, along with lower cd than a glass canon like sorcs is why people say sorcs are weak. There really is not much reason to bring a sorc over a SW and has pretty much been this way since 5.0

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6 hours ago, Vasilios-KT said:

Okay, im not trying to be mean in any way what so ever.... but thats uh -- sort of the entire point of sorc. BIG BIG damage, LOW LOW defense, low mobility. Ive never seen a single game out there where a sorc isnt a super strong bursty class, but is super hard to kill. Thats not what the stereotypical sorc is. Theyre not meant to live for long. And as I say, you either kill them fast or you die. Ive dueled glads before, and i burst them down quick while theyre rooted and slowed but the SECOND (im not kidding you, literally the second) they reach me and start doing skills (and i mean pvp geared glads), Im dead just gone. If I was given extreme damage and high defense with no required skill to play well, okay yeah I would agree thats stupidly broken. Not to mention, sorc would actually be popular. (*cough cough vandal cough cough*). But were not. And like I said before, you cant look at Pro and group every sorc in with that. Pro is a skilled, highly HIGHLY geared player that knows what hes doing, and at a place in the game 98% of the sorcs that have ever played aion probably wouldnt even reach. Ive been playing sorc for 6-7 years now (granted I only really started trying to get better at the game 2-3 years ago) and I dont even think Ill ever get to that skill level, even in the future. Sorc is a FANTASTIC class, if you know what youre doing. Ive seen some people (not in this post, just in the game) say that sorc is a really easy class, and isnt something difficult to learn... but theres definitely a skill level for it. Like how newer sorcs arent exposed to wind weaving like older ones are, as its not generally taught, and they may know it but just may not know the proper term for it. (WInd weaving  is the process of using 'Freezing Wind' or its Deavanion Skill type 'Raging Inferno' (for pve) in between every skill. Like flame fusion, raging inferno, ice harpoon, raging inferno etc.)  You have to know what your skills do, when to use them. Yeah any sorc can throw out 4000 nukes and get 3rd best damage, or be p2w and get all maxed gear throw out 4000 nukes and outdps everyone by insane damage. But the good sorcs are the ones that use their debuffs like lowering the magic def of bosses before attacking, and using skills in unique ways thats not common. Ive never seen Pro pvp before, nor do I know him personally, so I cant talk on his behalf. But he seems to know what hes doing, and when to do it, why to do it, and how to do it so he comes off on top. 

Mean about what? You’re basically making the argument for me that I alluded to earlier... some in here want to face tank an opponent while dealing massive damage. Roll a templar if they want that. I’m not the one arguing that sorcs are weak. They are better off than most people like to complain about. These changers are negligible but you’re already hearing an outcry about how sorcs are garbage tier with none of them ever experiencing or seeing what a max out sorc does to people

Edited by Etrigan-KT
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15 minutes ago, Ryzin-DN said:

If people think sorcs are so strong, wait until they find out about SW's that are basically sorcs on crack.

Sorc- no heals, no dispels, no silence/KB resist or sleep/fear resist, can not disepl a aoe sleep or fear from themselves or their group, no group buffs or shields, can not drain someones mana, and does not have very mobile DPS. 

Sw's- Heals, Dispels, has fear/sleep resist or silence/KB resist, can dispels themselves or group from fears/sleeps, can give buffs and shields to group, can drain mana, very mobile dps with short cd's and low cast time and can remove a buff.

 

Glacial Shard- 8.4k tooltip, 4 sec cast, 52 sec cd

Blazing Requiem- 13k tooltip, 3 sec cast, 42 sec cd.

How the devs came to the conclusion that a healing class with dispels and group buff should have higher damage, less cast time, along with lower cd than a glass canon like sorcs is why people say sorcs are weak. There really is not much reason to bring a sorc over a SW and has pretty much been this way since 5.0

You even know what you're talking about? When a sw goes full dps, it can't heal for shit. Sorcs has way more dps and way more burst than sw. Mobile... like the long cast time chain just to kill someone just like a sorc? Do you not know sws 9% cast on a harp compared to sorcs tomb/orb's 20% cast?

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So you think it should be able to go full dps and still heal really good or something? Guess what? When a sorc goes full dps he cant heal at all. Do you even know what you're talking about? So you acknowledge a SW kills just like a sorc can even though it has much more tools and can do it while being mobile even though it is a support class and not a glass cannon like a sorc? With Ultimate x form you are already nearly at cap cast speed anyways why are you crying about the 11% difference? I never lost a fight and said "if only i had 11% more cast speed i could had won."  

The davae skill of blazing requiem also has a higher tooltip at 8.9k that also has a lower cd and gives a crit on the next skill, compared to sorcs advance stigma of glacial at 8.4k and no follow up crit with a longer cd. Sorc does not have much higher dps, you or your friends just suck at playing SW

Edited by Ryzin-DN
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13 minutes ago, Ryzin-DN said:

So you think it should be able to go full dps and still heal really good or something? Guess what? When a sorc goes full dps he cant heal at all. Do you even know what you're talking about? So you acknowledge a SW kills just like a sorc can even though it has much more tools and can do it while being mobile even though it is a support class and not a glass cannon like a sorc? With Ultimate x form you are already nearly at cap cast speed anyways why are you crying about the 11% difference? I never lost a fight and said "if only i had 11% more cast speed i could had won."  

The davae skill of blazing requiem also has a higher tooltip at 8.9k that also has a lower cd and gives a crit on the next skill, compared to sorcs advance stigma of glacial at 8.4k and no follow up crit with a longer cd. Sorc does not have much higher dps, you or your friends just suck at playing SW

Actually, if a sorc can't kill a sw they're playing the class completely wrong. It doesn't matter who does more damage at that point as its a 1 shot kill if done right. Who has instant sleep? The only thing I can think of in a ranged right is sorcs instant > sws 7 METER aoe sleep. Who gets first hit? 

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SW's have instant sleep, sorcs can have one if they run that stigma build which is only a 12m aoe around himself. Even if the sorc landed his sleep because the SW is using the silence resist buff, the sorc still has to pray his silence lands to be able to finish the SW. Thats also assuming the sorc landed the sleep as the SW can dispel himself from a sleep, all it takes good reaction or a script with AHK. And if that sleep doesnt stick now the SW just sleeps, applies para, sleeps again and proceeds to kill sorc. 

I find it odd people talking about sorcs 4 shotting them but not SW's 2-3 shotting them since they have higher tooltip damage than sorcs along with many other defensive buffs that make it harder to kill them as well. 

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3 minutes ago, buknoy-DN said:

NCSOFT needs to add DIMINISHING RETURNS on CC. SORCS are the only class in the game that can text their boyfriends while pvping. YOU POP YO BUFF? OKAY I CC. MY SKILLS ON CD? OKAY I CC. I AM DYING? OKAY I CC.

They do have diminishing returns as well as resistance after the 3rd sleep. These are the type of people who are crying that sorcs are OP.....

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3 minutes ago, Ryzin-DN said:

SW's have instant sleep, sorcs can have one if they run that stigma build which is only a 12m aoe around himself. Even if the sorc landed his sleep because the SW is using the silence resist buff, the sorc still has to pray his silence lands to be able to finish the SW. Thats also assuming the sorc landed the sleep as the SW can dispel himself from a sleep, all it takes good reaction or a script with AHK. And if that sleep doesnt stick now the SW just sleeps, applies para, sleeps again and proceeds to kill sorc. 

I find it odd people talking about sorcs 4 shotting them but not SW's 2-3 shotting them since they have higher tooltip damage than sorcs along with many other defensive buffs that make it harder to kill them as well. 

Well the topic wasn’t about SW but mostly sorc QQ. But yes, songweaver is a broken class when it obtains kaisinel or marchutan. That sleep, para, 3 shot combo is stupid

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21 minutes ago, Etrigan-KT said:

Well the topic wasn’t about SW but mostly sorc QQ. But yes, songweaver is a broken class when it obtains kaisinel or marchutan. That sleep, para, 3 shot combo is stupid

Indeed that combo is just stupid, especially when they are a support class doing that. Everyone is a cannon now, this is the whole reason why sorcs are not great anymore. Every class can burst just as much as a sorc but arent nearly as fragile as them though. 

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1 hour ago, Ele-DN said:

You even know what you're talking about? When a sw goes full dps, it can't heal for shit. Sorcs has way more dps and way more burst than sw. Mobile... like the long cast time chain just to kill someone just like a sorc? Do you not know sws 9% cast on a harp compared to sorcs tomb/orb's 20% cast?

You can't dispel? You don't have better shields than a sorc in DPS spec? uh, yes you do.  Not to mention way more skills that don't have long cast times  nor are they on long CDs.

So don't compare SW 9% cast speed vs sorc 20% cast times- there's a good reason for that - you can't compare  given the skills and the 2 classes don't have the same mobility, although if both have ultimate transforms then it would help for the sorc.

1 hour ago, Etrigan-KT said:

Mean about what? You’re basically making the argument for me that I alluded to earlier... some in here want to face tank an opponent while dealing massive damage. Roll a templar if they want that. I’m not the one arguing that sorcs are weak. They are better off than most people like to complain about. These changers are negligible but you’re already hearing an outcry about how sorcs are garbage tier with none of them ever experiencing or seeing what a max out sorc does to people

Really, funny how not only NA but EU is full of bad sorcs. No one who has played sorc for a decent period of time remains with the mindset of "face tanking"  and no one in this thread has even given that impression- only you.

The point of sorcs IS to do massive damage. Get over it. The point is they  are last in the current meta which has  multiple classes rapidly doing damage with excellent defenses  of varying types and good mobility.

The one advantage of playing a sorc is that it makes playing various other classes  so much easier ¬¬

47 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Actually, if a sorc can't kill a sw they're playing the class completely wrong. It doesn't matter who does more damage at that point as its a 1 shot kill if done right. Who has instant sleep? The only thing I can think of in a ranged right is sorcs instant > sws 7 METER aoe sleep. Who gets first hit? 

Not necessarily. Do you even know which build gives instant sleep? and it isn't always useful. Yes a sorc has a chance to kill a SW but it's by no means a given, a SW has plenty of tools to do the job as well.

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