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17 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

OMG ...Finally you appear here!!! As you know, the only thing we need is "Apostle" and the event should be fair to everyone. I am looking forward your update asap..Please understand we have been waiting too long....

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@Kibbelz @Loki @Hime if it has come this long without being able to re-enable transfers then why are we even still playing. server is just going to decline more and more from here. if you absolutely c

@KibbelzHello Mr Kibbelz. Will there be an apostle box given to people who didn't abuse the transfer request system or didnt get the chance to abuse it lol.  My understanding is that there might be so

Well if they are unwilling to threat everyone equally by providing the same opportunity for all, then whats the alternative, let the people who intentionally exploited incompetence get ahead(because t

25 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

Well, if you cannot  'pivot' then something has to be done about the players that were able to get 4 or 5 apostles and complete some powerful collections. 

I have no idea how the team decided on not re-opening transfers though. The community as a whole, both players that didn't yet transfer eggs and those that did, seem to agree that that is the best solution. This is the only way that a sizeable percent of the remaining population of this game isn't pissed off and possibly leaving. I know, they probably think it sucks to lose something that they can try to charge us hundreds of dollars for in the BCM but trust me... there a lot of other things they can price gouge us for.

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53 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

This event is running for 3 more weeks, the idea that you cannot "pivot" anything that can correct your own(NCSofts) oversight in that time speaks for lack of will more than anything else.

You can you know, send everyone that didn't choose to abuse the system for their own gain the appropriate amount of apostle boxes(this wont overburden your support of doing hundreds of transfers a day), or remove the ones acquired through the so called abuse that you allowed. There are some options. But why am i expecting anything from a company that doesn't enforce their own rules and terms of service(hackers, botters, scammers), which is always at the cost of the ones following them. Anyway there is my feedback that you asked for.

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Dear @KibbelzThank you for making an appearance. Please tell them that discontinuing the transfer of the Loyal Stormwing Orb to the remainder of the player population is in fact punishing the players who did not quote "abuse" the function and rewarding players who did "abuse" the function. This makes absolutely no sense.

Please also note and acknowledge that several players have posted screenshots of their conversations with Support showing that they inquired if moving the Orb multiple times was ok or not, and that Support replied that it was ok. Continuing to spread the notion that support discontinued the transfer of the Loyal Stormwing Orb because of "abuse" from players is both disingenuous and harmful.

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1 hour ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

So explain to us how they can pivot away from doing it mid event then? This is an issue of competitive balance in the game, you are literally giving some players a leg up over others that are now not allowed to transfer this item. Those crit damage and crit defense collections are a big advantage. The support team allowed this, in fact they were complicit in it. Seems pretty ridiculous that this is going to be an issue for who knows how long until these transformations are made available through some other means. This is similar to the EC bug where people geared out super fast and this company did absolutely nothing about the disparity for 6+ months, and the bans were a total joke and rolled out in the worst way possible.

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23 minutes ago, MiphaBae-DN said:

This is similar to the EC bug where people geared out super fast and this company did absolutely nothing about the disparity for 6+ months, and the bans were a total joke and rolled out in the worst way possible.

Exactly what I was thinking. Players took a 1-week vacation from the game, came back, and were still fully geared from that exploit.

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1 hour ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Players took a 1-week vacation from the game, came back, and were still fully geared from that exploit.

And then EC was off for 6 months before they re-implemented it adding more salt to the wounds to those that didn't exploit it depriving them from the most important and rewarding pvp instance at that moment making us unable to catch up with those that took the 1 week vacation with full gear.

Later they gave rewards for those that were affected while others that were "not affected" were given nothing, like players that came later than the EC take-down so those people still missed EC but somehow they were not worthy of a compensation.

~~

The scariest thing is that they urged people to use the tokens to transfer it and later called this abuse.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT
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3 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

kibbelz, I realize you can only convey our concerns to the team but please make it clear that this kind of action will only discourage current players, returning players, new players from the game. continuing to change policies mid event etc will only drive the population down even further.

ultimately taking feedback from your player base only works if you action for more than 5% of concerns and suggestions. i am more than sure more players would gladly invest their time and money in a company that actually listens and takes actions when it's required

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21 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

And then EC was off for 6 months before they re-implemented it adding more salt to the wounds to those that didn't exploit it depriving them from the most important and rewarding pvp instance at that moment making us unable to catch up with those that took the 1 week vacation with full gear.

Later they gave rewards for those that were affected while others that were "not affected" were given nothing, like players that came later than the EC take-down so those people still missed EC but somehow they were not worthy of a compensation.

~~

The scariest thing is that they urged people to use the tokens to transfer it and later called this abuse.

Yup that one totally screwed me, I came back a month after the exploit, couldn't do EC for 4-5 months, was told that it somehow "didn't effect me". Um.... what?

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4 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

Thanks for the reply Kibbelz.

Sad to see transfers won't be re-opened but you guys need to add apostle shards as a permanent addition to the game like EU/RU is getting.

Additionally, please ignore the advice from people begging to remove and punish players who received apostles. I never completed mine but as you can see many players were given the green light by support which means nothing was done wrong. After talking to many players in game I can guarantee you that more players completed their transfers than did not, so in the end you would be punishing the majority of the players and it would cause more problems than it would solve.

So people, stop begging for others to be punished. It's a petty thing to do.

If you want people to be punished for this then you must first complain about all the Christmas apostles that were gained by actual cheaters.

Edited by Khonsu-DN
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5 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one.

To be honest, I can't imagine other thing that you could do. Any possible compensation we could suggest would be similar to just re-opening egg transfer with tokens (and this is also the simplest thing to do). Like one of GMs said in a support ticket, your goal is to make players "happy", so the only possible solution would be re-opening tickets.

Another way would be removing apostle contracts from ones who got them with restoration, but I don't see how this could make people happy... So it's either enabling transfers or making players quit or stop spending money.

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1 hour ago, Khonsu-DN said:

Thanks for the reply Kibbelz.

Sad to see transfers won't be re-opened but you guys need to add apostle shards as a permanent addition to the game like EU/RU is getting.

Additionally, please ignore the advice from people begging to remove and punish players who received apostles. I never completed mine but as you can see many players were given the green light by support which means nothing was done wrong. After talking to many players in game I can guarantee you that more players completed their transfers than did not, so in the end you would be punishing the majority of the players and it would cause more problems than it would solve.

So people, stop begging for others to be punished. It's a petty thing to do.

If you want people to be punished for this then you must first complain about all the Christmas apostles that were gained by actual cheaters.

Well if they are unwilling to threat everyone equally by providing the same opportunity for all, then whats the alternative, let the people who intentionally exploited incompetence get ahead(because thats what it is, anyone transferring  their eggs 3 times within few days clearly did it to get the apostles and mostly under false pretense of "changing their mains" 3 times in a week sure), and everyone that followed the rules and common decency are suppose to just deal with it?

Also your diversion to the Christmas fiasco has no place here, it was an unrelated thing to the current issue, that then was brushed off by saying that its too late to change anything, now there are 3 more weeks to actually make it right without actually need to change something in the game itself but the attitude seems the same.

Again people are asking for fair treatment, so the first choice is to be allowed the same chance others got, and removing something that was acquired through an admitted mistake is not a punishment, for the above mentioned reasons of people knowingly doing it under false pretense or omission.

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46 minutes ago, Viseris-KT said:

Well if they are unwilling to threat everyone equally by providing the same opportunity for all, then whats the alternative, let the people who intentionally exploited incompetence get ahead(because thats what it is, anyone transferring  their eggs 3 times within few days clearly did it to get the apostles and mostly under false pretense of "changing their mains" 3 times in a week sure), and everyone that followed the rules and common decency are suppose to just deal with it?

Also your diversion to the Christmas fiasco has no place here, it was an unrelated thing to the current issue, that then was brushed off by saying that its too late to change anything, now there are 3 more weeks to actually make it right without actually need to change something in the game itself but the attitude seems the same.

Again people are asking for fair treatment, so the first choice is to be allowed the same chance others got, and removing something that was acquired through an admitted mistake is not a punishment, for the above mentioned reasons of people knowingly doing it under false pretense or omission.

No, actually it is related because cheating actually occured in December where as this situation is not an exploit as you claim. Support GMs knew exactly what they were doing because Stormwing Orb transfer were allowed last year.

They only changed their stance here because p2w players started crying about f2w players catching up to them and getting "an advantage."

People who got transfers followed the rules and common decency as well. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't suddenly change the rules. When someone asks the Gm, is it okay if I do this? and they say yes, then no rules were broken and no abuse was done.

Sorry, but this is no solution. The ONLY solution is for them to re-open transfers. Crying for them to punish people who did nothing but ask if this was allowed and then have it done, is pure spiteful envy talking.

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2 hours ago, Khonsu-DN said:

No, actually it is related because cheating actually occured in December where as this situation is not an exploit as you claim. Support GMs knew exactly what they were doing because Stormwing Orb transfer were allowed last year.

They only changed their stance here because p2w players started crying about f2w players catching up to them and getting "an advantage."

People who got transfers followed the rules and common decency as well. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't suddenly change the rules. When someone asks the Gm, is it okay if I do this? and they say yes, then no rules were broken and no abuse was done.

Sorry, but this is no solution. The ONLY solution is for them to re-open transfers. Crying for them to punish people who did nothing but ask if this was allowed and then have it done, is pure spiteful envy talking.

WHO HURT YOU...  most of us aren't looking to punish players, especially when GMs verified we could do this. we're just looking for fair treatment on both sides. if 60% of the population got to do it and got rewards from it, what about the other 40%?

BUT people who should be punished are those who somehow even though used all 3 tokens, were able to some how get more tokens? and extra transfers outside of the 3 tokens. I've been hearing more and more of this and don't want to call people out, but it's complete bs of a system if people can do this.

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Just re enable transfer thats it @Kibbelzproblem solved.  In the first place there was no "abuse" in it, they used there token bruh. I myself used it once i need to use it 3 more times hehe. 

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13 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. I brought this up internally late last week, and while I know in the past we've been able to adjust our course on some items, in this case it seems that (at least right now, after much discussion) we cannot pivot on this one. I'll be sure to update you if this changes. Please continue sharing your feedback so we can hopefully make improvements / changes which you highlight down the line.

Well, there's pretty much like 2 scenarios after the event is done w/o NC fixing it. I'm pretty curious to see, how it will turn out.

My feedback for this topic will go along with everyone else, reward players that did not used the "abuse" of restoration tickets to transfer the egg or reopen the transfers.

Reversing on thoose that already transfered the egg is not the smartest but in order to treat people equally, this will work for me personally too.

9 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

@KnightZM-KT I will be sure that this is passed along. I think @Gallium-DN's position is very similar, and these comments will be sent along too.

 

I hope at least you can do is to send it to them, do it.

Well that was my feedback. Next text is ONLY for players, so you can stop reading right here Kibbelz

 

Frankly, i don't think there will be any correction, if they let simillar thing to happen during x-mass with Meloon event, i don't have much hope now either. F*ckups like this aren't unusual and i trully feel sorry for all the pi*sed ppl. I know for some of you guys, the game is realy important but you shouldn't be surprised. And some prophecy wisdom i can guarantee. It will happen (if they manage to survive that long) next year with this event again. And again, my advice - if you want a change go through the wallet. Well, at least i've told you^^

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13 hours ago, Khonsu-DN said:

Thanks for the reply Kibbelz.

Sad to see transfers won't be re-opened but you guys need to add apostle shards as a permanent addition to the game like EU/RU is getting.

Additionally, please ignore the advice from people begging to remove and punish players who received apostles. I never completed mine but as you can see many players were given the green light by support which means nothing was done wrong. After talking to many players in game I can guarantee you that more players completed their transfers than did not, so in the end you would be punishing the majority of the players and it would cause more problems than it would solve.

So people, stop begging for others to be punished. It's a petty thing to do.

If you want people to be punished for this then you must first complain about all the Christmas apostles that were gained by actual cheaters.

wow your post sounds like a big selfish bullsh*t.
Of course you got your apostles and don't want the devs to rollback or remove them from your or from whoever got it.

No matter how many/if the majority got these ultra rare apostles and the minority dont. As long as the egg transfers are blocked for other people this move will be UNFAIR.
Critical Damage and Critical Defense collections are game breaking because they demand time and effort to get and dozens of people got it for free while many others got nothing.

just stop your peasant lies

12 hours ago, Gabrielis-KT said:

To be honest, I can't imagine other thing that you could do. Any possible compensation we could suggest would be similar to just re-opening egg transfer with tokens (and this is also the simplest thing to do). Like one of GMs said in a support ticket, your goal is to make players "happy", so the only possible solution would be re-opening tickets.

Another way would be removing apostle contracts from ones who got them with restoration, but I don't see how this could make people happy... So it's either enabling transfers or making players quit or stop spending money.

i would 100% vote to remove ALL apostles from whoever got it for free. But they can't rollback on transformations without Korea support so I really doubt they will do it. And rollbacking the server isn't an option either

 

they should just admit that big mistake and let people transfer their eggs through charaters. they already broke the game by letting people do it a couple of times, just let the others who couldn't benefit from it do the damn thing

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I know players who got 3 apostles from their 3 tokens and due to massive insistence they got extra transfer for their eggs and got more apostles LOL

Ariel and Azphel are pretty hard to get, they cost 1500 exp marks and MONTHS of hard work maintaning your renown to get the apostle shards.
 

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2 hours ago, Arkanus-DN said:

i would 100% vote to remove ALL apostles from whoever got it for free.

I would 100% vote against that, and for re-enabling egg transfers with tokens. Simply because the existence of the fact that some people somehow got more than 3 tokens and used them all for transfer, proves that support is corrupted. In that case, how can we be sure they really removed transformations from all those people ? There is no way for the community to check this. At that point, they could just select a few victims and remove their apostles, and leave the privileged people untouched.

I would suggest 1) re-enabling egg transfers as fast as possible, so the support doesn't get overwhelmed with requests the last week of event, 2) investigating the cases of people who got more than 3 tokens, ban them and fire the support managers who allowed this.

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1 hour ago, Gabrielis-KT said:

I would 100% vote against that, and for re-enabling egg transfers with tokens. Simply because the existence of the fact that some people somehow got more than 3 tokens and used them all for transfer, proves that support is corrupted. In that case, how can we be sure they really removed transformations from all those people ? There is no way for the community to check this. At that point, they could just select a few victims and remove their apostles, and leave the privileged people untouched.

I would suggest 1) re-enabling egg transfers as fast as possible, so the support doesn't get overwhelmed with requests the last week of event, 2) investigating the cases of people who got more than 3 tokens, ban them and fire the support managers who allowed this.

you're pretty optmistic but these are good solutions too
sadly they wont do anything

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The response Kibbelz gave is sort of like when you want a candy bar but your mom doesn't want to buy it, and at the same time she doesn't want to tell you no to your face. I highly doubt in the next three weeks they're going to really make massive progress with this situation, because Kibbelz said "we cannot pivot on this one." If they're not pivoting with almost 200 responses and 5.4k view with NONE of the responses actually being happy with this outcome... Im sorry to say but its probably just not going to happen. 

I agree very much so with what @Gabrielis-KTsaid and I myself thought of similar things. If NCWest was soooo supportive of removing everyones Pixel transformation a little bit ago during that event, what's so different now. They dont seem to want to give the player base any compensation for this situation or reopen transfers, so go and delete all the Apostles that players did get and punish the ones that did exploit this. 

In addition to that, if NCWest opened all the transfers today it still may not even be enough time for all the players to get all the transfers they want. As we know, the support team is not the most efficient team. If they opened the transfers the support team is going to get bombarded with requests to transfer the egg, and some players aren't going to be able to get theirs transferred as quickly as they may have before hand. And then on top of that, players who have issues outside of the restorations are going to be put on hold because theres going to be 150-200 players trying to get a transfer all at once. Say 200 people had 3 restorations and they all wanted to transfer the egg, thats 600 tickets for the support team to respond to and 600 transfers for them to do. It already takes them like a day for a regular response but when theres this flood of tickets coming in that'll turn into 2-3-4 days for 1 response and you need to have a minimum of 2-3 responses for 1 transfer. 

At this point the main way to compensate players would be just a survey. Reopening transfers will need the support team to work harder then we all know they actually will, and a survey can support all players. Just like the Pixel event you've waited too long and caused the situation to be so big that now theres not enough time to fix things, even if you can. There HAS to be some means of compensation, people are running around with 3-4 extra legendaries as well as various strong collection buffs. And the players with the 3-4 extra legendaries have HALF of the required legendaries for a single ultimate during a combination event. That in no means is fair to anyone no matter if the player is p2w or f2p.

This event is so nice and allows for so many opportunities, but the transferring of the egg is what a lot of players was looking forward to. For me, I wanted transfer my egg three times and use all three of my tokens. I wanted to send it to my Cleric, my Vandal, and then my Chanter. I wanted to send it to them mostly so that I can get their dev skills. But on top of that, I was hoping to get Ariel, Azphel and then either work to finish collections or get 2 extra legendaries so I can prepare for the combination event. 

I understand that players were never meant to transfer the egg and its something that wasn't intentional for players. But it happened. People did it during the first event and it wasn't caught, now people are doing it during this event and the rewards are too good for it to be fair for players to transfer it and then prevent others to not transfer it. The day you announced this event and left the transferring mechanic available for players, it was already too late to stop them. You needed to have ended transfers before this event, or after this one. But during the event has too big of an impact on players as a whole. The transferring is a mechanic, and thats it. Its not an exploit or a cheat, its a loop hole that players were able to discover. For the ones that abused it and spent tokens they didnt have, then yes thats an exploit and they need to be punished for that. 

Hopefully we can have a response to this situation, and NCWest can fix the problems were facing through the event. Thank you. 

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On 4/14/2021 at 12:53 PM, Arkanus-DN said:

I know players who got 3 apostles from their 3 tokens and due to massive insistence they got extra transfer for their eggs and got more apostles LOL

Ariel and Azphel are pretty hard to get, they cost 1500 exp marks and MONTHS of hard work maintaning your renown to get the apostle shards.
 

If anyone got more than 3 tokens then yes that is totally breaking the rules. In the past we had GMs that helped their friends ingame and they got kicked and the players banned.

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