Questions on Legal Documentation Updates

[Attestant]

In regards to the new article linked, how does this affect usage of the commonly used third party softwares such as listed below:

• Shugo Console
• Mouse-side button keybinding programs
  • With macros
  • Without macros
• Damage meter programs
  • Aion Rainmeter*
  • aiDPS*
  • Etc.

* These programs have abilities to detect hackers, alert the player of certain messages or log-style messages in chat, and etc that doesn't perfectly fit in their confines of their here-in description of damage meter programs.

 

Personally I think usage of Shugo Console should have been a bannable offense long ago since it gives the players an unfair advantage due to its ability to widen your scope of sight. As for the others, I hope they are fine to be used, however the scope of the rules are so broad that I'm not sure if it really is allowed. Anything can be considered to be having "an adverse effect on other users of the Services", for example misidentification of a hacker by aiDPS may ruin someone's representation in Aion and the game may become harder to play due to partial blacklisting by the community.

[Nalariel]

-While using our Services, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to use and enjoy the Services. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, intimidate, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other users of the Services. Similarly, you may not use communications facilities made available as part of the Services to “troll” other users or NCSOFT personnel, post or share memetic images or phrases without substantive content, intentionally cause unrest among users of the Services, or otherwise be disruptive.

+1 on this finally they taking seriously with trolling it's not fun it's really bad by weaponized jokes against others while pretending it's nothing serious or why you should be mad.

-While participating in Player-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay in the Services, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other users’ experiences in the Services by not actively participating in good faith (e.g., “griefing” or “leeching”).

No more alternate characters following ?

 

-Yes, you may use Our Content (e.g., images, text, video, audio and other media assets that we own) that relates to Aion, Lineage II, Blade & Soul, Guild Wars, or Guild Wars 2 --within the following parameters:

 

The content must be used in a non-commercial context for private, personal use only (i.e. not for use by a company)

You must include all copyright and other notices associated with the content

I got a question on this ,is this mean I can't take screenshots and make stories from it anymore ? o_O even I do I have to make copy right on every story ?

 

[5sB1C19-DN]

I find it laughable they even change it for aion. Hackers are let to run free and nothing is done about it yet they claim in the article to enforce rules. Shugo console even goes against it imo as it widens what you can see that the base game offers. It's like letting people in competitive games get a higher fov and more distance with no consequences.

Good one

KEKW

[Vinley-KT]

6 hours ago, Motgar-KT said:

Personally I think usage of Shugo Console should have been a bannable offense long ago since it gives the players an unfair advantage due to its ability to widen your scope of sight.

Really dude? Competitive FPS games allow FOV adjustments in some cases up to 120. League of Legends automatically adjusts FOV for Ultrawide monitors (Aion doesn't).

It's the players fault that aion hasn't had modernization for different resolutions since 2009? The FOV is 63-71 for 1080p which is damn near disgusting and causes motion sickness for a lot of people. There's 100 people left in the game, many of them botting and cheating, and you're proposing banning people combating motion sickness with an adjustment that should be in the game (and is in every other game) if the developers weren't lazy pos's?

[Vinley-KT]

4 hours ago, 5sB1C19-DN said:

It's like letting people in competitive games get a higher fov and more distance with no consequences.

I literally can name probably 50 games that are competitive that have FOV options. Games that have some of the biggest official tournaments have FOV customization.. Even league of legends automatically increases your FOV based on your aspect ratio, something aion doesn't because it was developed at a time when people were still playing on 1366x768.

[5sB1C19-DN]

9 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

I literally can name probably 50 games that are competitive that have FOV options. Games that have some of the biggest official tournaments have FOV customization.. Even league of legends automatically increases your FOV based on your aspect ratio, something aion doesn't because it was developed at a time when people were still playing on 1366x768.

They do not have to resort to installing a 3rd party program to do it. That alone goes against TOS in most games.

[Vinley-KT]

1 hour ago, 5sB1C19-DN said:

They do not have to resort to installing a 3rd party program to do it. That alone goes against TOS in most games.

By that logic people who pay for WTFast should be banned too then. Isn't getting better ping than other people that live in your area who don't pay for a 3rd party app also an "unfair advantage" by your standard? The fact is 4:3 monitors get better view ratio than 16:10, 16:9 and 21:9 monitors in Aion because it has no FOV adjustments aside from one linked to camera distance with a range of 63-71. The default FOV is atrocious and it legit causes motion sickness to a lot of people, which is partly why it has been a "silently" accepted app. Try playing aion on an Ultrawide monitor and not get absolutely dizzy after 5 minutes because the FOV doesn't adjust to the screen width. You literally see less relative to screen size, it's like playing zoomed in. Even 1080p is bad compared to 4:3 (which is what aion is optimized for)

Also before people were finding ways to abuse the dev console, we could actually change the FOV. In fact NCWest for some time was telling people they could change FOV via a command in the launcher back in the day, before the launcher got updated to no longer accept commands because people found other ways to cheat. So if not for them having to block it because of cheaters we would have a FOV adjustment; because the game inherently has the option to adjust it, just not in the menu interface because it was never updated to do so.

[GenericUser45308]

Whoever complains about shugo console hasn't played with it  or likes to use it as an excuse for getting beat up in PvP
At least half of aion's population requires ping reducers to be able to move in the game and not rubberband 10 meters back.

 

[5sB1C19-DN]

8 hours ago, Vinley-KT said:

By that logic people who pay for WTFast should be banned too then. Isn't getting better ping than other people that live in your area who don't pay for a 3rd party app also an "unfair advantage" by your standard? The fact is 4:3 monitors get better view ratio than 16:10, 16:9 and 21:9 monitors in Aion because it has no FOV adjustments aside from one linked to camera distance with a range of 63-71. The default FOV is atrocious and it legit causes motion sickness to a lot of people, which is partly why it has been a "silently" accepted app. Try playing aion on an Ultrawide monitor and not get absolutely dizzy after 5 minutes because the FOV doesn't adjust to the screen width. You literally see less relative to screen size, it's like playing zoomed in. Even 1080p is bad compared to 4:3 (which is what aion is optimized for)

Also before people were finding ways to abuse the dev console, we could actually change the FOV. In fact NCWest for some time was telling people they could change FOV via a command in the launcher back in the day, before the launcher got updated to no longer accept commands because people found other ways to cheat. So if not for them having to block it because of cheaters we would have a FOV adjustment; because the game inherently has the option to adjust it, just not in the menu interface because it was never updated to do so.

By your logic it's ok to use a 3rd party program when it benefits you and you find the game unplayable. Anything that is not part of the main game and adds to it is a 3rd party program. I'm glad we got that sorted out.

Secondly, l am at 1440p and l find nothing wrong with it. If you want to toss excuses to validate your points, im not buying it.

[Attestant]

• There is a difference between intentional design and inevitable drawback.  Ping is a inevitable drawback and zoom distance is a intentional design.
• There is a difference between third party software that modifies a program and one that modifies settings on the computer without touching the game. Third party software that modifies a program is changing the intentional design of the program. Third party software that modifies your computer's protocols is your right, as long as it doesn't modify the game client itself.

Both viewpoints are one in the same. Yes, NCsoft has the right to make exceptions, but Shugo Console users should be permanently banned if otherwise.

[Arhangelos]

Ping reduction service a 3rd party? Of course not.

Re-routing your internet connection has nothing to do with Aion. It is your connection to the internet via a different route of servers that are better for a specific target (in this case reaching Aion servers).

It is like trying to play on an awful internet provider vs fiber.

(on the next episode: playing Aion with a good pc is a 3rd party software since it gives you a smoother gaming experience and less dropped frames)

[Attestant]

Yea, I didn't mean to call it a third party software.

[Vinley-KT]

There's a reason NC has never made a public stance against shugo console specifically. It's widely accepted and used by a majority of the playerbase. The fact you're up in arms over it is pretty cringe. FOV is a tool that helps combat motion sickness, and helps fix a problem with aion's broken scaling. It's not "cheating" nor is it harming the game for anyone, unlike actual tools that people get away with using every day.

Banning shugo console is how you get people to start experimenting with actual cheats that do harm the game, because people aren't going to just "deal with it" after 10 years of peacefully using a tool to fix aion's unoptimized aspect ratios.

And just because "you're ok with it" doesn't mean a majority of the playerbase should be banned just because you wanna play with your pitchfork for memes. There's way more problem apps and things to deal with than a damn FOV modifier. And if you think its used as an unfair advantage youre just delusional.

[Attestant]

7 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

There's a reason NC has never made a public stance against shugo console specifically. It's widely accepted and used by a majority of the playerbase. The fact you're up in arms over it is pretty cringe. FOV is a tool that helps combat motion sickness, and helps fix a problem with aion's broken scaling. It's not "cheating" nor is it harming the game for anyone, unlike actual tools that people get away with using every day.

Banning shugo console is how you get people to start experimenting with actual cheats that do harm the game, because people aren't going to just "deal with it" after 10 years of peacefully using a tool to fix aion's unoptimized aspect ratios.

And just because "you're ok with it" doesn't mean a majority of the playerbase should be banned just because you wanna play with your pitchfork for memes. There's way more problem apps and things to deal with than a damn FOV modifier. And if you think its used as an unfair advantage youre just delusional.

I'm against it because it's against ToS. I wish my camera was farther out, but it's against ToS to use Shugo Console. I'm not reading the rest of your rubbish that probably amounts to an ironic excuse for you to use it as a gateway drug to hacking.

[Vinley-KT]

4 minutes ago, Motgar-KT said:

I'm against it because it's against ToS. I wish my camera was farther out, but it's against ToS to use Shugo Console. I'm not reading the rest of your rubbish that probably amounts to an excuse for you to use it as a gateway drug to hacking.

There's a lot of things that are "against ToS." Fking macros are "against ToS." Synapse is "against TOS." Black equalizers are "against TOS." I'm sure being the white knight you are, you're out there every day screenshotting all the botters and reporting them, right? Keep up the good work soldier.

[Squid]

As Cyan use to say, You can use any of the programs but you can be subject to ban if NCsoft deems you guilty. Our previous CM's found nothing wrong with people using Shugo console, DPS meters(for the use of DPS meter),using proxies or using mouse/keyboard programs. The DPS meters came up that they are not a viable source to ban players since most of it can be easily forged which is fair enough.

We go through this every other year they update their legal documents and every time the CM says use any thing that improves your game at your own risk.

[5sB1C19-DN]

All I'm trying to get through to you is that in principle, any program that changes or modifies ANY aspect of the game violates the TOS plain and simple. It is not that hard to understand. If they want to change their stance at any time and ban people, you got warned.

Just because it's widely accepted doesn't hold water. I simply do not care if people use the program but it's principle here.

[Attestant]

14 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

As Cyan use to say, You can use any of the programs but you can be subject to ban if NCsoft deems you guilty. Our previous CM's found nothing wrong with people using Shugo console, DPS meters(for the use of DPS meter),using proxies or using mouse/keyboard programs. The DPS meters came up that they are not a viable source to ban players since most of it can be easily forged which is fair enough.

We go through this every other year they update their legal documents and every time the CM says use any thing that improves your game at your own risk.

The game is the content of Aion, not the content of their legal documents. I wish they would stop confusing the two.

[Squid]

4 minutes ago, Motgar-KT said:

The game is the content of Aion, not the content of their legal documents. I wish they would stop confusing the two.

I mean they go hand in hand, They have to have one to have the other.

[Nalariel]

I guess it's safely to say all 3rd party program users will be ban if  there's an evidence of it if your screenshots ,videos  implying you're using them.

So yep you can use them but careful when you posting screenshots or videos

 

 

[Arhangelos]

Here is the thing, your keyboard is like a 3rd party device/application, it is a physical keyboard with a windows support drivers to take the input for the game. But this is the only way to play aion so not regarded against the rules (duh).
You can play with a controller if you have one or get a mouse that has more than the 2/3 buttons which makes your gaming easier. Still not against the rules since you are not altering the game itself and you are not automating the play.

You can get keyboards with programmable keys, like holding a button for 3 seconds and it will repeat hitting itself until you press it again. This is a general feature of that keyboard and this keyboard is not sending anything to aion directly, but rather to your operating system and if aion is in the foreground then it will "catch" the automated keystrokes and probably do a shortcut with it (like spamming a specific skill on the skill bar), that is still not a 3rd party interference.
BUT if you make your keyboard hit 3 numbers (like 1, 2 and 3) one after another with delays between them and you have ingame macros to your 1,2 and 3 shortcuts in the skill bar then you just made the simplest bot, which doesn't use artificial intelligence to take actions but it is still automated playing, thus against the TOS.

If they find you grind, talk to you and you seem like automated playing then they can ban you even though you didn't directly do anything to the game and you merely used a legit input device with a legit operating system feature and went to toilet while your char kept spamming some keys.
It is in their judgement to see if you are worthy to get banned or not for using a feature that they didn't design.

This is why there is a fine line between "accepting" something but "not condoning" it. It is like ping reduction services, many services change your IP as well, and many times they are being used by botters in mass to hide their identity, so if by any means you get caught in a massive IP banwave then it isn't their fault since they already wrote that vpns/ping reducers are not supported officially and you use them on your own risk.

~~

Shugo console is a 3rd party application specifically made to attach to the aion process and alter the client to be able to unlock features that are otherwise impossible. People have 3rd party applications to be able to walk through walls, glide upwards or stay in mid air to kill bosses without being attacked, these "features" are there but are locked, someone did a 3rd party to allow for it and we are arguing if doing so is legit or not because other games already have something similar.

Other aion versions have ingame bots and we don't, so that is up to company to decide what they accept and what not.

[Mrplatino-DN]

you guys too worried about new laws, they could say A but won't do Z, from years ago this team is poor in employers, hackers and developers are more thats why they gave up trying to cacth them support team prefers to wash their hands saying things like " unsuficeng evidence or can't judge by using 3rd party programs" it's a bussines method just pay few employers gain many money from big amount of players and pretend to "work" if you all want to change the game stop buying ncoin, but yea i know it wont happend in years. so don't worry about new rules stay chill buy Doritos and eat it with some Soda while using ur 3rd party programs this support team slack in numbers 

[Vantheria-DN]

Y'all, it doesn't even matter, they've never banned hackers, never will lmao.

[MechEagIe-DN]

You guys are clowns , ncsoft dont care about hacker that stuff have nothing do with that ...
The real story is that ncsoft scam people and they got into lawsuit and they need update they stuff protect they self !
 

 

[Squid]

1 hour ago, MechEagIe-DN said:

You guys are clowns , ncsoft dont care about hacker that stuff have nothing do with that ...
The real story is that ncsoft scam people and they got into lawsuit and they need update they stuff protect they self 

 

I mean NCsoft are geniuses, Make dumbasses(well probably smart) spend millions on your game till they get salty and do something stupid that breaks the law then take them to court make more money and then keep getting more money from them because they can not quit your game.