Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 16 hours ago, Alvie said: They did, and it's called Aion 7.9 Aoin Classic is a product for people that can afford the benefits of a subscription, Aion 7.9 is for people that can't. Aion have products for most income levels. I was referring to Aion Classic obviously. I want a full subscription for the server I'll play, not even the 1h free. Don't get me wrong, f2p brings a lot of players and bots that aren't always good for the game. My suggestion was for +1 f2p Classic server. If retail is still profitable enough to keep it alive with just 50x p2w players and like 50 f2p, then Classic f2p with p2w could be too, or even more than retail. I am only proposing that because a lot of people want to play it and can't afford it apparently. In the end, it doesn't affect me, I already pre-ordered and will try to see if I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 19 hours ago, 5s16519C said: There's a lot wrong with this. 1) NC does not want to support F2P players. Any attempts at an alternate solution are going to be undermined by this reality. They will not be making accommodations for people in this sense, and I don't really understand why you would want them to. Nothing, I repeat, nothing about a F2P server would be healthy. For anyone. And introducing cash shop alternatives to such a server would just widen a disparity between people who can pay, and people who don't. The free players would be literal fodder to be farmed. This is absolutely illogical thinking from the ground up. 2) If in any country, 15$ is half a months salary, you have literally, absolutely, undeniably no business even considering playing a subscription based game, do you? Respectfully, your political-economical climate seems to suggest you're not in a place where such a thing is a wise financial consideration. That's not NC's fault, nor is it their responsibility to cater to this. Their pricing is (a largely inflated value) based on their needs to maintain the game. Their needs aren't lesser because you're from a poorer country. And if they started charging less for poorer countries, ignoring the whole ethics of effectively taxing countries at different rates, it would just cause everyone to use a VPN to play from Madagascar and pay less. Again, this makes literally no sense. Whatever you write I already know. BUT they do give 1h for free every day which is advertised as f2p friendly. This is what doesn't make sense, they tried to cater to f2p players and that 1h for free isn't even doing it, while the 1h f2p doesn't give subscription players anything either. Who does it benefit... bots! So instead of giving us 1h for free in our servers while f2p players can't even enjoy it then they could simply make full subscription for us and f2p in another server. The f2p and subscription servers wouldn't meet anywhere, we wouldn't have interserver instances against f2p/p2w server people if they designed it this way. And yes, poor countries that cannot afford it will obviously not play. I paid for my subscription. The reason I made this suggestion is to remove any f2p from the servers we are willing to pay-to-play so as to avoid all the problems this 1h free per day will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Arhangelos-KT said: Whatever you write I already know. BUT they do give 1h for free every day which is advertised as f2p friendly. This is what doesn't make sense, they tried to cater to f2p players and that 1h for free isn't even doing it, while the 1h f2p doesn't give subscription players anything either. Who does it benefit... bots! So instead of giving us 1h for free in our servers while f2p players can't even enjoy it then they could simply make full subscription for us and f2p in another server. The f2p and subscription servers wouldn't meet anywhere, we wouldn't have interserver instances against f2p/p2w server people if they designed it this way. And yes, poor countries that cannot afford it will obviously not play. I paid for my subscription. The reason I made this suggestion is to remove any f2p from the servers we are willing to pay-to-play so as to avoid all the problems this 1h free per day will bring. A free server would pull people away from the paid servers. A free server would be rife with bots and other problems. A free server does NOT generate money for the company. A free server will not happen. Period. It's a bad idea for the players and for the company. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, 5s16519C said: A free server would pull people away from the paid servers. A free server would be rife with bots and other problems. A free server does NOT generate money for the company. A free server will not happen. Period. It's a bad idea for the players and for the company. It's as simple as that. This! %100!!! PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konstantinos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 No more free players with 234242 accounts and bad community PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 50 minutes ago, Guest konstantinos said: No more free players with 234242 accounts and bad community PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wootage Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 F2P ruined aion for me tbh 3.0 was still ok but you could already see that game was going in wrong direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, Guest Wootage said: F2P ruined aion for me tbh 3.0 was still ok but you could already see that game was going in wrong direction I actually enjoyed the game when it went F2P, but I do understand that the game declined after the fact. It's hard for me to say if it was because of it or just other bad decisions... I didn't play enough before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 hours ago, 5s16519C said: A free server would pull people away from the paid servers. A free server would be rife with bots and other problems. A free server does NOT generate money for the company. A free server will not happen. Period. It's a bad idea for the players and for the company. It's as simple as that. A subscription server will get every reasonable and serious player. We all asked for subscription. A free server would be filled with SA people, p2w people and bots. A free server is what retail is. Our current Classic servers will not be 100% subscription and will have bots. Lets enjoy the bot fest of our servers. I never wanted to play on a free server, I wanted our servers to be subscription only, but since NCWest seems to cater to f2p as well they could have had a f2p server and skip the 1h free to play in the subscription servers. If you still don't get it then we will talk in 1 month from now and I will show you the amount of bots that infest our faux-subscription servers that we will currently have. I think I am losing brain cell explaining this over and over again, so I'll leave it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Arhangelos-KT said: A subscription server will get every reasonable and serious player. We all asked for subscription. A free server would be filled with SA people, p2w people and bots. A free server is what retail is. Our current Classic servers will not be 100% subscription and will have bots. Lets enjoy the bot fest of our servers. I never wanted to play on a free server, I wanted our servers to be subscription only, but since NCWest seems to cater to f2p as well they could have had a f2p server and skip the 1h free to play in the subscription servers. If you still don't get it then we will talk in 1 month from now and I will show you the amount of bots that infest our faux-subscription servers that we will currently have. I think I am losing brain cell explaining this over and over again, so I'll leave it here. And I'm losing brain cells trying to explain why this is flat out wrong, for the consumer and business. Your repetition does not make your case sound any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Coheed said: This! %100!!! PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! 3 hours ago, Guest konstantinos said: No more free players with 234242 accounts and bad community PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! 2 hours ago, Coheed said: ^ ...my god look at all those amoebas... you are all wrong, our servers WILL be infested with bots because our servers ARE NOT fully subscription, we have f2p as well for 1 hour that will do the job. Why the fk do I even bother explaining this, I should simply let everyone play the game and realize it. Jeez. Just now, 5s16519C said: And I'm losing brain cells trying to explain why this is flat out wrong, for the consumer and business. Your repetition does not make your case sound any better. OK, so the server WILL be full of bots, I hope your 1 brain cell left will allow you to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said: ...my god look at all those amoebas... you are all wrong, our servers WILL be infested with bots because our servers ARE NOT fully subscription, we have f2p as well for 1 hour that will do the job. Why the fk do I even bother explaining this, I should simply let everyone play the game and realize it. Jeez. OK, so the server WILL be full of bots, I hope your 1 brain cell left will allow you to see it. No one asked you to explain it - those responses were directed to people asking for more free things and the F2P restrictions to not be as harsh. I do agree with you though... but I hope the 1 hour of free time will not have such a negative effect as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Coheed said: No one asked you to explain it - those responses were directed to people asking for more free things and the F2P restrictions to not be as harsh. But NCWest is giving 1h for free every day. They are doing this to pretend this is going to allow players f2p. In the end the f2p players won't exist because 1h is not enough but 1h is more than enough for people with 10000 accounts to bot and produce enough kinah. My suggestion was to remove the 1h free for good, and if NCWest is so keen on attracting f2p as well, they could have made them a free server for all I care. WE DO NOT HAVE SUBSCRIPTION SERVERS... our servers are not 100% subscription based. The little f2p they allow is only going to destroy the game. I'll keep a link to this thread, I'll tag all of you in 1 month from now so you explain why the hell our servers are full of bots even with the restrictions. 5 hours ago, Coheed said: This! %100!!! PAY if you want to PLAY!!!! You want people to pay to play... NCWest: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said: But NCWest is giving 1h for free every day. They are doing this to pretend this is going to allow players f2p. In the end the f2p players won't exist because 1h is not enough but 1h is more than enough for people with 10000 accounts to bot and produce enough kinah. My suggestion was to remove the 1h free for good, and if NCWest is so keen on attracting f2p as well, they could have made them a free server for all I care. WE DO NOT HAVE SUBSCRIPTION SERVERS... our servers are not 100% subscription based. The little f2p they allow is only going to destroy the game. I really do hope too that they remove the 1 hour and make it %100 sub server. The last thing I want is for bots to overrun the classic servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Arhangelos-KT said: ...my god look at all those amoebas... you are all wrong, our servers WILL be infested with bots because our servers ARE NOT fully subscription, we have f2p as well for 1 hour that will do the job. Why the fk do I even bother explaining this, I should simply let everyone play the game and realize it. Jeez. OK, so the server WILL be full of bots, I hope your 1 brain cell left will allow you to see it. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you realistically have not earned, and try this one last time. Regardless of subscription, number of servers, allocation of servers, pay to buy, pay to play, pay to win, or cost, there will be bots. I don't know why you think the subscription model conversation is strictly a matter of using subscriptions to handle bots. It's not. It's hardly a blip on the radar to NC. There's hundreds of other considerations that come before, "lul how do we keep bots down" as it pertains to why they chose a subscription based system. Subscriptions allow a company to more consistently understand their cash flow, expenses, and manage other financial expectations. Subscriptions generally dissuade undesirables who would make a game less fun to play for others. Subscriptions require less work from the publisher as they're not pressured to generate new cash shop content to sustain cash flow all the time. Subscriptions are overall simpler to manage and orchestrate once enabled. Subscriptions do not carry the negative stigma of cash shop/pay to win that attracts a lot of negative publicity. Subscription models are harder to find work-arounds for, as F2P players on games that are cash shop/pay2win games can - and have - often found work arounds that can temporarily, momentarily, or more permanently affect the cashflow of the game, causing destabalization. Right there I provided just a small number of reasons why any business is likely to choose this model over whatever it is you think you're talking about. As for creating additional, free servers? Why in the actual hell would bots remain on these, "F2P" servers? Clearly the paying customers are on the other one. The people with money, who have demonstrated they're willing to spend money on this game, will be on another server. Why would they go anywhere else? Serious question. Have you actually thought about this, or is your ego so attached to this idea (???) that you cannot accept you're wrong? At best, a separate server like this would accomplish nothing. At worse, it would be a greater strain on resources for the company. It would divert at least some otherwise paying players away from paying. It would cause burn out, tension between F2P and paying players. And it would overall increase the cost for everyone because there's more, completely different systems to manage. You now have completely segregated servers operating under different rules and protocols. That's more staff, more hardware, more resources. Who's paying for that, your free2play server? Obviously not. Seriously, think before you type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said: But NCWest is giving 1h for free every day. They are doing this to pretend this is going to allow players f2p. In the end the f2p players won't exist because 1h is not enough but 1h is more than enough for people with 10000 accounts to bot and produce enough kinah. My suggestion was to remove the 1h free for good, and if NCWest is so keen on attracting f2p as well, they could have made them a free server for all I care. WE DO NOT HAVE SUBSCRIPTION SERVERS... our servers are not 100% subscription based. The little f2p they allow is only going to destroy the game. I'll keep a link to this thread, I'll tag all of you in 1 month from now so you explain why the hell our servers are full of bots even with the restrictions. You want people to pay to play... NCWest: lol!!! this made me laugh! 2 minutes ago, 5s16519C said: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you realistically have not earned, and try this one last time. Regardless of subscription, number of servers, allocation of servers, pay to buy, pay to play, pay to win, or cost, there will be bots. I don't know why you think the subscription model conversation is strictly a matter of using subscriptions to handle bots. It's not. It's hardly a blip on the radar to NC. There's hundreds of other considerations that come before, "lul how do we keep bots down" as it pertains to why they chose a subscription based system. Subscriptions allow a company to more consistently understand their cash flow, expenses, and manage other financial expectations. Subscriptions generally dissuade undesirables who would make a game less fun to play for others. Subscriptions require less work from the publisher as they're not pressured to generate new cash shop content to sustain cash flow all the time. Subscriptions are overall simpler to manage and orchestrate once enabled. Subscriptions do not carry the negative stigma of cash shop/pay to win that attracts a lot of negative publicity. Subscription models are harder to find work-arounds for, as F2P players on games that are cash shop/pay2win games can - and have - often found work arounds that can temporarily, momentarily, or more permanently affect the cashflow of the game, causing destabalization. Right there I provided just a small number of reasons why any business is likely to choose this model over whatever it is you think you're talking about. As for creating additional, free servers? Why in the actual hell would bots remain on these, "F2P" servers? Clearly the paying customers are on the other one. The people with money, who have demonstrated they're willing to spend money on this game, will be on another server. Why would they go anywhere else? Serious question. Have you actually thought about this, or is your ego so attached to this idea (???) that you cannot accept you're wrong? At best, a separate server like this would accomplish nothing. At worse, it would be a greater strain on resources for the company. It would divert at least some otherwise paying players away from paying. It would cause burn out, tension between F2P and paying players. And it would overall increase the cost for everyone because there's more, completely different systems to manage. You now have completely segregated servers operating under different rules and protocols. That's more staff, more hardware, more resources. Who's paying for that, your free2play server? Obviously not. Seriously, think before you type. hot damn okay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, 5s16519C said: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you realistically have not earned, and try this one last time. Regardless of subscription, number of servers, allocation of servers, pay to buy, pay to play, pay to win, or cost, there will be bots. I don't know why you think the subscription model conversation is strictly a matter of using subscriptions to handle bots. It's not. It's hardly a blip on the radar to NC. There's hundreds of other considerations that come before, "lul how do we keep bots down" as it pertains to why they chose a subscription based system. Subscriptions allow a company to more consistently understand their cash flow, expenses, and manage other financial expectations. Subscriptions generally dissuade undesirables who would make a game less fun to play for others. Subscriptions require less work from the publisher as they're not pressured to generate new cash shop content to sustain cash flow all the time. Subscriptions are overall simpler to manage and orchestrate once enabled. Subscriptions do not carry the negative stigma of cash shop/pay to win that attracts a lot of negative publicity. Subscription models are harder to find work-arounds for, as F2P players on games that are cash shop/pay2win games can - and have - often found work arounds that can temporarily, momentarily, or more permanently affect the cashflow of the game, causing destabalization. Right there I provided just a small number of reasons why any business is likely to choose this model over whatever it is you think you're talking about. As for creating additional, free servers? Why in the actual hell would bots remain on these, "F2P" servers? Clearly the paying customers are on the other one. The people with money, who have demonstrated they're willing to spend money on this game, will be on another server. Why would they go anywhere else? Serious question. Have you actually thought about this, or is your ego so attached to this idea (???) that you cannot accept you're wrong? At best, a separate server like this would accomplish nothing. At worse, it would be a greater strain on resources for the company. It would divert at least some otherwise paying players away from paying. It would cause burn out, tension between F2P and paying players. And it would overall increase the cost for everyone because there's more, completely different systems to manage. You now have completely segregated servers operating under different rules and protocols. That's more staff, more hardware, more resources. Who's paying for that, your free2play server? Obviously not. Seriously, think before you type. Subscription subscription subscription... you wrote it so many times, you forgot WE DO NOT HAVE SUBSCRIPTION ONLY. We have subscription AND f2p in one model. We will eat shit from day 1 and we should be happy. The company shold be happy, the botters should be happy, the f2p should be hapyp and the subscribers will be happy. If you please f2p then you displease subscribers, if you please subscribers you displease f2p. You can't have both. We collide in interest. They should cater to subscribers only, if for any unicorn reason they wanted to please f2p they should have made them a separate server, one that would never collide with the subscription servers. How hard is it to understand? Allow someone to have 1000 bots free of charge, it will work as it worked for Korea. Lets wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Arhangelos-KT said: OK so lets have subscription and f2p in one model because you wrote an essay. We will eat shit from day 1 and we should be happy. The company shold be happy, the botters should be happy, the f2p should be hapyp and the subscribers will be happy. If you please f2p then you displease subscribers, if you please subscribers you displease f2p. You can't have both. We collide in interest. Allow someone to have 1000 bots free of charge, it will work as it worked for Korea. Lets wait. So not only did you not read anything I said, but you continue to reiterate your nonsensical points. See you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, 5s16519C said: So not only did you not read anything I said, but you continue to reiterate your nonsensical points. See you later. btch please, you read nothing of what I wrote. You wrote a fking essay on why subscription is better and you forgot to understand WE DO NOT HAVE SUBSCRIPTION, it is a model with some subscription and some f2p. I am the one asking for subscription only, you are the one trying to explain to ME how good subscription is. Cya in 1 month with the screenshots of the 100% FREE TO BOT farmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coheed Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, 5s16519C said: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you realistically have not earned, and try this one last time. Regardless of subscription, number of servers, allocation of servers, pay to buy, pay to play, pay to win, or cost, there will be bots. I don't know why you think the subscription model conversation is strictly a matter of using subscriptions to handle bots. It's not. It's hardly a blip on the radar to NC. There's hundreds of other considerations that come before, "lul how do we keep bots down" as it pertains to why they chose a subscription based system. Subscriptions allow a company to more consistently understand their cash flow, expenses, and manage other financial expectations. Subscriptions generally dissuade undesirables who would make a game less fun to play for others. Subscriptions require less work from the publisher as they're not pressured to generate new cash shop content to sustain cash flow all the time. Subscriptions are overall simpler to manage and orchestrate once enabled. Subscriptions do not carry the negative stigma of cash shop/pay to win that attracts a lot of negative publicity. Subscription models are harder to find work-arounds for, as F2P players on games that are cash shop/pay2win games can - and have - often found work arounds that can temporarily, momentarily, or more permanently affect the cashflow of the game, causing destabalization. Right there I provided just a small number of reasons why any business is likely to choose this model over whatever it is you think you're talking about. As for creating additional, free servers? Why in the actual hell would bots remain on these, "F2P" servers? Clearly the paying customers are on the other one. The people with money, who have demonstrated they're willing to spend money on this game, will be on another server. Why would they go anywhere else? Serious question. Have you actually thought about this, or is your ego so attached to this idea (???) that you cannot accept you're wrong? At best, a separate server like this would accomplish nothing. At worse, it would be a greater strain on resources for the company. It would divert at least some otherwise paying players away from paying. It would cause burn out, tension between F2P and paying players. And it would overall increase the cost for everyone because there's more, completely different systems to manage. You now have completely segregated servers operating under different rules and protocols. That's more staff, more hardware, more resources. Who's paying for that, your free2play server? Obviously not. Seriously, think before you type. Definitely some excellent points in here! I really hope they do right by Aion this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5s16519C Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Actual cancer haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, 5s16519C said: Right there I provided just a small number of reasons why any business is likely to choose this model over whatever it is you think you're talking about. ...wow, man you know what I am so jealous of people like you that have persuaded themselves they won. We do NOT have this model. You can write as many arguments over a hypothetical universe you currently live in, in my universe --> Classic servers are not the model you just wrote. What we have: Our model will allow someone to create 1000 accounts on day one, 100% free and start generating kinah instantly. What I want: A subscription only model would make this guy pay 15.000$ on day one to even start playing with them. What we have: Banning bots on current model means nothing, the guy can make another 1000 accounts for free the next day. What I want: Banning bots on subscription-only means the guy lost a ton of money and has to start over. So why the suggestion of a f2p server: (read this slowly, you might get it this time) NCWest put that 1h f2p per day because they want to please f2p players. THEY want it. So I am telling them, if you want to please f2p gamers, make them a separate server and leave the subscribers alone. We would have had bots too yes, but not thousands and it would have been easier to ban them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubei-DN Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The 1 hour Siel's Aura is not NCWest's choice. It's something Korea offers, which is why we have the same model as them. If we want that to change, which will probably not, you'd have to convince NCSOFT in Korea to address and fix this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arhangelos Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, Kubei-DN said: The 1 hour Siel's Aura is not NCWest's choice. It's something Korea offers, which is why we have the same model as them. If we want that to change, which will probably not, you'd have to convince NCSOFT in Korea to address and fix this issue. Exactly, we are getting Korean Classic as it is. But we can have regional changes like we have in retail. Examples: In korea if you combine 2x legendary transforms you have a chance to get an ancient back, we don't. In Korea they have the transform server wide only, we have them account wide (you get a transform in KT, you also have it in DN) Our shop will be different I am sure as well even in Classic. Regional changes exist and we have a ton of them. If KR had anything to say against bots they would have known that 1h f2p is only bringing cancer. Our publishers could have requested this to not be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Go Figure... Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Wow, I have seen it all now after reading this useless thread...I mean really?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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