How to destroy the game twice!

[Ashlayna-DN]

2 hours ago, 5s17B0E7 said:

"Aion Classic isn't as P2W as other games; therefore, it's not a big deal. Here, look at Rappelz, a game nobody plays, it's very P2W"

Every bad game is P2W. Nobody plays that shit. You'll argue that the P2W in Aion Classic isn't bad because you can't buy the best gear, but to get the end-game gear, you need to grind AP. To get AP, you need to PvP/protect yourself from being PvPed while you PvE. You won't do that in Fire Temple blue gear when you're facing a person in max enchanted, best manastones, 46 Platinum Coin gear in the first week. The gear gap from a P2W player and a sub only player will widen so far, the non-P2W can't compete. It's still P2W.

You'll continue to defend P2W because you're the type of beta cuck who plays games like Rappelz and other rubbish games.

Show me the store page where you have to go to buy the enchantments for our gear?  Show me the page that guarantees we'll get max level enchantments.  I wonder, how did anyone ever PvP in the Retail version of Aion, when there were no candies?  How did we ever earn our PvP gear at all, especially before F2P, since we couldn't just hit the cash shop, and buy our way to the top?  We went out and PvP'd.  I would suppose that we would do the same thing here, I know I have started down that road.  Of course, I don't let "but I might lose" interfere with going out to do it, and I never did.  I might lose, but, I might win too.

 

Gotta love the "I don't have an argument, so your example is moot" thing.  It's to be expected, after all, there's no safe space.  I get the feeling that one of those "whales", defined as anyone which beats you in PvP, which I suspect might be anyone who fights you, tea bagged you, and now you're scarred for life, and hiding behind your monitor screaming "beta cuck" at anyone that presents an argument that you have no real reply to.

 

You can buy all the enchantment/manastones you like, there's still no way to ensure they don't fail.  Despite your bitterness, people in retail had max level enchantments and all their manastones socketed, myself included, w/out any candy to supplement our incomes.  We also had max level crafters, no P2W required, unlike the example I listed earlier, where that's the only way you're going to get it.  Rappelz has been around since 2005, evidently some people are playing it.  I'm not one of them, any more, but someone apparently is.  I'll gladly call out some P2W, when I see it.  It's not here yet.  Despite what a whisper stalker tried to tell me in game the other day, you can get your research lab skill book w/out hitting the broker.  They were strangely silent on that claim yesterday, while 5 different groups were forming to farm the books.  But you let me know when they remove that from game, and put it in the CS, ok?

[Ashlayna-DN]

2 hours ago, Skorner said:

It really depends on your opinion on P2W.....some people see pay to win to be anything that gives a boost that saves time in-game P2W, others say it's anything that effects PVP balance like you mention here, others say it's paying to receive things that aren't attainable through playing in-game.

So to you this additional Kinah and coins provided may be pay to win, but to others they may see it as a time saver boost. Will it effect PVP? Yes, in the short term people who bought a premium pass will have more money and better gear...but will others be able to catch up eventually?? I don't see why not.

We did it before any of this existed, and yes, we can do it again.  There are things that I dread, Fenris grind, maxing out crafting gives me nightmares, etc.  But none of that is attainable by "swiping the credit card".  They require actually playing the game.  Since that's what I paid my sub to do, another thing that's P2W in LFG these days, I'm not going to be overly fussed about it.  Despite having a 200+ alchemist, I don't see maxing it until the toon is approaching 50, it's expensive to do.  However, the lack of "P2W" didn't prohibit me from maxing all the crafting professions in Retail, most of them before the game went F2P.  The other issue is the RNG, so some people that aren't just swiping their credit cards may be luckier at it than some that are, and may be able to achieve that gear w/out spending a dime beyond the base sub, which is all I pay.

[Arhangelos]

23 hours ago, Toriwest-KT said:

Many are playing only because they paid the month or 3 months in advance, so they are playing more because of compromise. Not to mention that many have already said that they will stop playing it when they run out or Lost Ark comes out.

I don't understand how other people can say that the game has a decent amount of players, when half of those are bots and the other half are players who have strongly expressed that they will leave for sure. but hey let's not break their bubble that this is the best game with the best purchase system in the world, be careful WoW and FF14 they are coming for you...

I am one of them, I paid for 1 month thankfully not knowing what I will see. So far classic is a slow paced retail, slow casting and hard grinding. So far the only thing I like is the fact I can see the old maps. nothing will keep me here hooked once my month is done. I might rebuy a month if I feel like being more active, otherwise I'll simply use my 1h per day to log, do a thing or two and then leave.

[5s17B0E7]

6 hours ago, Ashlayna-DN said:

Show me the store page where you have to go to buy the enchantments for our gear?  Show me the page that guarantees we'll get max level enchantments. 

Daeva pass. I didn't read the rest of your rubbish post because you clearly are clueless.

[Ashlayna-DN]

1 hour ago, 5s17B0E7 said:

Daeva pass. I didn't read the rest of your rubbish post because you clearly are clueless.

Actually, it's more like you didn't respond to it because you have no answer.  "But mah narrative, and if you disagree, you're clueless".  What's real is that I have a lot of experience, playing a lot of MMOs.  I read the forums in all of them.  In most of them, some of the most ridiculous stuff I can imagine has been called P2W.  Hell, outfits in a SP game were instantly labeled P2W.  Check out AC Odyssey for some of that tasty "but my narrative" logic.  

 

I notice there's a distinct lack of links, so I'm just going to suppose those items don't exist, but you had to try to point to something, right?  I didn't see any items like this in the left hand list, and I only did a cursory inspection of the right side, because I'm not going to be buying it, so it doesn't matter to me, but even that cursory glance didn't show me anything that guarantees success, or prevents loss upon failure.  Those are the things I asked for, so since you have all the clues, how about you actually support your claim, instead of deflecting to "but my narrative"?

[Skorner]

1 hour ago, 5s17B0E7 said:

Daeva pass. I didn't read the rest of your rubbish post because you clearly are clueless.

This is what I'm watching at the moment. The Daeva Pass is how they will inject Pay 2 Win elements if they do, IMO.

Right now they're straddling the fence of P2W with the Daeva Pass and it's only the first season. The coins and mana stones are a large time boost to me, but not something I'd quit for. If they put tons of AP relics in the next one or fort medals or anything that is a HUGE time boost or something unattainable in-game entirely, then I will be quitting.

If the current Daeva Pass is already enough for you to quit, I don't blame you...but why stay here and continue to post? Why not just move on to a new game?? Everyone has their limits and most people in this thread said they have already reached their limits on what's acceptable, so why stick around to post???

[Nalariel]

Hi sorry for late reply.

Well it's true that kinah candy won't affected long term as long as there's "NO UPDATE" and no new gears incoming if 1.2 is forever. But because there're coming update so there will be new gears like DP weapon(which super OP). The main point of p2w is never make you pay once and godlike forever but rather let you keep paying to get edge on non p2w players. They will keep buffing baseline players all time and offering new items for you to paying to keep on the top of pyramid.

Anyway if crying and raging of candies all over social media can't even change anything. Why do you think NC will care if you asking any improvements or skins even you pay them like 50k$ ? 

Do you still feel winning now ? 

[Forthyn]

If the Daeva Pass was filled with cosmetics and skins I’d drop $30 in a heartbeat. 

[EIana]

10 hours ago, Forthyn - Asmodaes Pea-k said:

If the Daeva Pass was filled with cosmetics and skins I’d drop $30 in a heartbeat. 

But it’s not. Instead it’s filled with things like 500 silver coins. I was actually shocked when I received that.

[Stormwing]

@Ashlayna-DN

The way I see it, the benefit of using candies and the deavapass is huge and I find it silly people trying to defend it really.

Deava Pass
While people are having green gear and are happy about a gold drop once a week you are there with full blue to gold coin gear out damaging everything. In this game faster progress is key and it is an early benefit which never goes away again if one keeps playing. While other players snail around you are there with running scrolls from the get go rushing everything. While others struggle you are there level 50 gold geared farming Bakarma and Zapiel extendables.

Candies
Kinah is everything in Aion. With kinah one can purchase gear, enchantments, manastones, godstones.. in one way or another pretty much everything. All those things are making a player stronger / more powerful than others, which also leads to more abyss point gain. Can you earn kinah otherwise? Certainly.. yet while others focus on earning kinah people selling candies can focus on core mechanics of the game. While others waste their time aethertapping, leveling crafting, farming mobs for drops, candy sellers already started farming abyss points, killing Zapiel, buying their golden weapons. By the time you think you made kinah they are sitting on a billion with half their gear finished and are just going to one shoot you whenever you show up.

Aion used to be a progressive game and the more you had at the end of one patch the faster you progressed in the coming one. Being delusional about ever catching up to those players is your right. Being delusional about just being better/worse at PvP is also your right, however, on the long run, you are not going to catch up to those players. Indeed, at one point you will have your gear together, mayhap even +15 on everything with manastones. At that time the next patch hits and those players with kinah will just quickly progress again while you are there raising your tapping skills, crafting stuff and farming things for them to buy.

Quote
I'll leave this quote here since it describes it pretty well. Thanks to Click at this point.

Quote

 

and while you say you can get everything in the game... same as someone who paid... it's partially false. the ones that pay will have a better title much faster than your f2p titles. yours will come after months of farming. your good wings will come much later than those getting it from the start. same with the weapons they added for starters or enchant stones. but wait... ncsoft sold the best wings and titles unobtainable in the game in the past... it was all in the shop and no way to buy from others. in eu we had gf putting them into veteran rewards and most ppl had vr... so it wasn't an issue for us. just wait... ncsoft is doing it again.

it's the same p2w as in current aion... if you wait half a year you might get your kaisinel and no need to swipe. if you wait a long time you will get your daevanion skills +15 or stigmas +15 or s minion. pve gear or pvp can be farmed in the game... and manastones and enchants too. some of the things do require a very long time but the principle is the same... wait for p2w to get it first. the same in classic... you get them after a while after paying players. what pisses me off about current aion is that is mostly rng based acquisition... and it's worse than the shortage of things hinting ppl to p2w.

the perspective is the same. in classic those time frames are shorter but you are behind p2w players. while you focus on getting your manastones or gather aether or craft scrolls or earn kinah or whatever... p2w players buy instances loot... get their scrolls and pots from the shop... have kinah to buy all enchants and manastones from broker and then focus on other things... like farming ap for stigmas and gear and rank.

if you focus on getting ap... you fall behind. ap guards don't drop gear or kinah... don't drop crafting materials or stigmas or anything but only ap. idk how quickly you got your 50e but it was not quick back then. you had to buy your stigmas first... then accs... then all the parts and farm medals. if you have kinah you can buy medals... so it's what p2w ppl will do.

i don't get it how you ppl can't see how this game has a million things that snowball into each other. you gather aether to earn kinah while other farm ap. you start crafting for your scrolls and pots and others swipe for kinah to get medals. you farmed some manastones that will fail a lot and no kinah to buy from broker. it doesn't have to be exactly like that but unless you are a bot to farm all day... one day you will notice some guy fully geared and governor and you still admire plants in poeta. bUt YoU cAn GeT sTuFf JuSt As FaR aS sOmEoNe WhO pAyS ReAl MoNeY. that is such a non argument... because you will fall behind slowly... and new patch is coming soon and more after that and you are left more and more behind and you get to 7.9 and realize... you are too far behind and ncsoft tricked you into thinking you can farm stuff and be the same as p2w players. no... classic is not a static game by itself... you get 1.5 and it's done for the next 10 years.

 

 

[Arhangelos]

2 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Ashlayna-DN

The way I see it, the benefit of using candies and the deavapass is huge and I find it silly people trying to defend it really.

Deava Pass
While people are having green gear and are happy about a gold drop once a week you are there with full blue to gold coin gear out damaging everything. In this game faster progress is key and it is an early benefit which never goes away again if one keeps playing. While other players snail around you are there with running scrolls from the get go rushing everything. While others struggle you are there level 50 gold geared farming Bakarma and Zapiel extendables.

Candies
Kinah is everything in Aion. With kinah one can purchase gear, enchantments, manastones, godstones.. in one way or another pretty much everything. All those things are making a player stronger / more powerful than others, which also leads to more abyss point gain. Can you earn kinah otherwise? Certainly.. yet while others focus on earning kinah people selling candies can focus on core mechanics of the game. While others waste their time aethertapping, leveling crafting, farming mobs for drops, candy sellers already started farming abyss points, killing Zapiel, buying their golden weapons. By the time you think you made kinah they are sitting on a billion with half their gear finished and are just going to one shoot you whenever you show up.

Aion used to be a progressive game and the more you had at the end of one patch the faster you progressed in the coming one. Being delusional about ever catching up to those players is your right. Being delusional about just being better/worse at PvP is also your right, however, on the long run, you are not going to catch up to those players. Indeed, at one point you will have your gear together, mayhap even +15 on everything with manastones. At that time the next patch hits and those players with kinah will just quickly progress again while you are there raising your tapping skills, crafting stuff and farming things for them to buy.

Quote
I'll leave this quote here since it describes it pretty well. Thanks to Click at this point.

 

I have also said this multiple times, kinah is very important in a game that everything is tradeable. I have heard people saying that whales can't play the game good because they paid for it and never learned it. Someone needs to tell the aethertapper that aethertapping for 5 hours, morphing for another 2 and then afk crafting for 3 hours... is not making you a better player at all.

We have all seen a whale or two that purchased a ton of things and still lost pvp from every player they found, but predominantly p2w people are those with the extras that usually kill you in no time.

They start getting the good gear and the extras earlier than anyone and they start doing pvp instantly with every advantage there is.

I personally still buy candies for 80k to sell them to the npc, the drops I get are so useless for kinah making that I make more profit by getting the limit from candies at 20k profit per candy! Heck I log my alt account to get another 200k in there.

[Ashlayna-DN]

3 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Ashlayna-DN

The way I see it, the benefit of using candies and the deavapass is huge and I find it silly people trying to defend it really.

Deava Pass
While people are having green gear and are happy about a gold drop once a week you are there with full blue to gold coin gear out damaging everything. In this game faster progress is key and it is an early benefit which never goes away again if one keeps playing. While other players snail around you are there with running scrolls from the get go rushing everything. While others struggle you are there level 50 gold geared farming Bakarma and Zapiel extendables.

Candies
Kinah is everything in Aion. With kinah one can purchase gear, enchantments, manastones, godstones.. in one way or another pretty much everything. All those things are making a player stronger / more powerful than others, which also leads to more abyss point gain. Can you earn kinah otherwise? Certainly.. yet while others focus on earning kinah people selling candies can focus on core mechanics of the game. While others waste their time aethertapping, leveling crafting, farming mobs for drops, candy sellers already started farming abyss points, killing Zapiel, buying their golden weapons. By the time you think you made kinah they are sitting on a billion with half their gear finished and are just going to one shoot you whenever you show up.

Aion used to be a progressive game and the more you had at the end of one patch the faster you progressed in the coming one. Being delusional about ever catching up to those players is your right. Being delusional about just being better/worse at PvP is also your right, however, on the long run, you are not going to catch up to those players. Indeed, at one point you will have your gear together, mayhap even +15 on everything with manastones. At that time the next patch hits and those players with kinah will just quickly progress again while you are there raising your tapping skills, crafting stuff and farming things for them to buy.

Quote
I'll leave this quote here since it describes it pretty well. Thanks to Click at this point.

 

Damn, I'm doing something wrong.  My Ranger has 3 pieces of blue gear, and I dropped them all.  My assassin has one piece of coin gear, a pair of gloves that gives a whopping 1% atk spd.  I noticed the difference right away, at how fast things were dropping, let me tell you.  But let's discuss being delusional, shall we?  "Everything is tradable!!!!" is a delusion.  AP gear is not tradable, you can't even store it in the account warehouse, which may or may not change later, because I believe it did change in retail.  Everyone's sitting around for hours morphing things is delusional, nobody on the Asmodian side of Israphel is doing anything of the sort.  Reality check:  Morph designs come from the fortress quartermasters, so if you're not taking any forts, you're not morphing anything.

 

I put 3.5 levels on an assassin yesterday, and wound up with 1/2  a million kinah.  I then blew close to 100k working on my crafting, and another 30k or so teleporting around because I forgot to change my bind point, and PvP happened.  Barring doing the crafting stuff, I could have deposited around 400k in the warehouse, and had 900k in there for future reference.  There's nothing delusional about that.  There's nothing delusional about knowing that rewards on the left hand side of the Pass are earned by playing the game.  Everyone that pays a sub gets those rewards.  It's delusional to try to claim anything else.  I have no intention of buying into the right side, I'm willing to pay my sub to play, but I'm not going beyond that, and it's obviously not providing all that great a benefit to all those whales, because here we sit, with no forts in the abyss, with all this P2W going on.

 

In that vein, I had a whisper stalker telling me that nobody was going to be able to afford to buy the Research Lab skill books off the broker, because of the candy.  What they neglected to mention, and maybe hoped I didn't know, was that there were 4 groups spamming yesterday to actually run the research lab, and get the books, because contrary to what my stalker asserted, those books don't just materialize in the broker.  Someone has to run the content and get them in the first place, and, in all seriousness, what's locking anyone with a sub out of doing it?  So tell me again about delusional?  Because the alternative is that they were deliberately lying to me, right?  They did try to use something that is solely dropped in game as an example of P2W, after all.  I mean, they straight out claimed that you could only get them from the broker.  So no, the delusion is not my own.  I will never be filthy rich in this game, but that's not a real shocker, I've never been filthy rich in an MMO, but I will have the stuff I want, because I will go out and earn it.  The Noble Rose Quartz Earrings were 250k a pop when I started getting to where I needed/wanted them, so I got on my Handicrafter, and got to the point where I could make them myself, for about 175k, including buying mats I didn't have on hand.  Let me guess, that's also a delusion...

[Nalariel]

This reminds me of something called laundering money ,you know you getting dirty money from crimes such as extortion ,robbery etc then used those money in a process you can't track back where those money came from like buying something from shop with dirty cash and resell those items with a bit lower than the price you brought then you got clean money.

Actually video games microtransaction is very popular method with money laundering
https://www.regtechtimes.com/video-games-money-laundering/

So I wondering if those massive whales are actually laundering their dirty money via candies ? then RMT them with normal players buying them.
Video games with heavy p2w are great with money laundering without catching authority attentions.

It's not just some rich with super credit cards but rather organized crime doing p2w.

[Lingwon-DN]

12 hours ago, Nalariel-KT said:

This reminds me of something called laundering money ,you know you getting dirty money from crimes such as extortion ,robbery etc then used those money in a process you can't track back where those money came from like buying something from shop with dirty cash and resell those items with a bit lower than the price you brought then you got clean money.

Actually video games microtransaction is very popular method with money laundering
https://www.regtechtimes.com/video-games-money-laundering/

So I wondering if those massive whales are actually laundering their dirty money via candies ? then RMT them with normal players buying them.
Video games with heavy p2w are great with money laundering without catching authority attentions.

It's not just some rich with super credit cards but rather organized crime doing p2w.

This is worrying. There may be very little avenue to verify whether NCwest and criminal gangs are working together. Still, the possibilty is there.

[5s17B0E7]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:09 PM, EIana said:

But it’s not. Instead it’s filled with things like 500 silver coins. I was actually shocked when I received that.

But it is. There are actual rewards that give level 50-80 enchantment stones and green manastones. Also, it's 400 of each coin type. I like how you try to argue that it's not when you don't even have the basic information required to argue this. Why are you even trying when you don't know anything?