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steel rake bans [Merged]


Amarah-KT

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@Kibbelz So what's the course of action where your account has been banned, you've sent an email every day for the past 6 days and still have had no correspondence with Support? Not even the initial email that others got when their accounts were banned?
Has my automatic billing been stopped? Do I start chargebacks? Do I report NCSoft for fraud as a payment recipient by not providing a product that was purchased?

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I'm debating on cancelling my sub. This wave of bans is a train wreck. I've been on a number of the same SR runs that 3 of my friends apparently got banned for and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I tend to keep the combat chat window open at all times. The only thing that would lead me to believe they cheated would be hairpin turn ins, but myself and many others do that same thing....... I have no idea would they could have been doing with myself in the group. Is it something I could have spotted?.....


Classic feels like it's following the same path that lead to the disaster that retail became. (We are barely 2 months into Classic's launch)  NCsoft's management is just terrible. The mod's here on the forums seem to pick favorites and leave snarky replies instead of being a productive part of the community. It's all just disappointing. I really do enjoy Aion and have made a number of very good friends here and all of us are just getting tired of how NCsoft's management handles things. I think this may be that last straw for many players. Between the Bots, Hackers and Gold sellers it's just getting to be too much with no positive future insight and commenting on the forums feels like a waste of effort.

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  • Aion Team

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance dozens of times of times to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which relates to prohibited conduct.

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Wait so that's the reason?
You would have to ban half the server at least! choosing a point in time to do this is a bit hypocritical.


Also this was never a banable action in live, was done for years and if it wasn't meant to be achievable, why not advise people instead of banning those that have spent real money to play this game? I certainly would not have done it if I knew there was an issue with it! 

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8 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended

that quest is repeatable only 20 times, so whats the difference if you can do it in 10 days or 5...

so if you do quest in reshanta that requires quest drop, and you kill 30 mobs to turn in one go like 5-6 quest is it against ToS as well? or if you will get 5 wines in SR and quest only need 4 will it be to much?

you are just pathetic to ban people for it, now its just excuse cause it was your mistake but you can't  admit to be wrong

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i loving to see that.

so now after 12 years we cant do that ... ok

 

lets pass some 3 days at sanctum/pand reporting everyone person we see and in 3 days 90% of the players will get ban

the only whos will not got is the BOTTERS.

because they dont do SR.

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23 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

Looks at all the locked threads and the one that mysteriously disappeared that had a GM acting like a child by locking it and then posting a stick bug.

 

Yup, working as intended. No issues at all. The execution was flawless. Everyone was fully warned and everything. Oh wait....

 

Kibblez, I wish you no ill will. I understand you are essentially the middle man in customer relations. It's not your fault. Your team, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

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37 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly dozens of times to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which related to prohibited conduct.

So are you guys going to be changing this quest so it is a daily repeatable? Because unless you make a big change like that, you're going to have a lot more innocent people get banned because they do not know it's now considered bannable after 11 years.

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unfortunately I can't accept that kind of answer @Kibbelz.

first that yes we know the terms of service.

but the question is why then all my accounts were not banned there in 2009-2013 when everyone did as they do today and there wasn't even 1 ban related to it.

at that time I remember very well what was most forbidden and talked about in 2009-2013 was LOOT RIGTHS that was forbidden and even so, people did it. in circumstance of this the NC did not ban the players it released in the following patch an update where you could no longer do LOOT RIGTH because those outside the group could not get the item. and what we see now is relentless LOOT RIGTHS in LFG.

why don't you guys banish them too? after all they also know that it is prohibited and that there was a patch in the future that fixed it. if you think that the REP quests are forbidden to do that way, no problem we accept it. but at least have the obligation to or update the quest to DAILY quest . or at the very least create an article warning the player that after 12 years it is prohibited to do so.

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1 hour ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly (often dozens of times) to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which relates to prohibited conduct.

Kibbles i am going to make a video on this because you are not understand what the SR problem is. When i post it please watch it and understand that there is a big difference between the kinah exploit and simply walking in and out of an instance to do a quest multiple times per run.

The problem which is the kinah exploit has nothing to do with Steel rake instance it has to do with the steel rake entry quest in which thankfully i have got a second level 40+ that i can do the quest on and show you.

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6 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Kibbles i am going to make a video on this because you are not understand what the SR problem is. When i post it please watch it and understand that there is a big difference between the kinah exploit and simply walking in and out of an instance to do a quest multiple times per run.

The problem which is the kinah exploit has nothing to do with Steel rake instance it has to do with the steel rake entry quest in which thankfully i have got a second level 40+ that i can do the quest on and show you.

man i think you dont understand SR entry quest IS THE SAME SR INSTANCE they only differ is.

 

Entry quest you are IINSIDE THE  cell so you CANT reach the outher parts of the map but if you look at the radar you will see its the instance but a mirror instance.

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2 minutes ago, Rubyel said:

man i think you dont understand SR entry quest IS THE SAME SR INSTANCE they only differ is.

 

Entry quest you are cell so you can reach the outher parts of the map but if you look at the radar you will see its the instance but a mirror instance.

That is fine and all but that is not what Squid is saying. Doing repeatable quests are apparently buffing up our instance entries in their logs when it shouldn't be. They obviously cannot tell the difference between someone doing a quest turn in and leaving/returning to the instance, and someone doing the SR entry quest repeatedly and exploiting/going through walls to get kinah in ways that are obviously unlegit. Kibbelz pretty much just said that re-entering the instance is against TOS but we've been able to do that hairpin repeat quest since 2009. 

@KibbelzPush it forward and have them make the quest once a day then so we don't get banned again, if you're really saying we can't do that quest in the manner it has been done since launch.

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2 minutes ago, Rubyel said:

man i think you dont understand SR entry quest IS THE SAME SR INSTANCE they only differ is.

 

Entry quest you are cell so you can reach the outher parts of the map but if you look at the radar you will see its the instance but a mirror instance.

unknown.png

Not the same instance, If they were the same instance then they would share CD but they do not. It is a totally different issue. The problem here is people kept reporting SR at the exploit not the SR entry quest.

The kinah exploiters were just abandoning the entry quest doing this over and over creating a new instance zone and the boxes were up again and again.

Just because the instance itself is the same it is still a separate entity to the actual instance. In which it is clear after what kibblez has said NCwest think it is the hairpin repeatable that is the exploit in which it is not.

Think about if you are a ranger and you accidently run out of arrows in a run. Imagine getting banned for 7 days because you left the instance and re-entered the instance with a new fresh set of arrows LOL.

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1 hour ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly (often dozens of times) to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which relates to prohibited conduct.

This response will be the downfall of Aion classic, not even 2months after launch. It clearly shows how delusional and incompetent the GMs are. It shows they have no clue how Aion works at all. It's so hilarious but sad at the same time.

In my case, its been 72hours (3days) since support ticket sent in, and I :

*STILL have not received a single correspondence from NCSOFT, not even a copy-response.

*STILL have no clue why I am banned. Can only wildly speculate.

*STILL am a paying customer

*STILL can't log into account via website to cancel my auto-renew sub. This act is called F-R-A-U-D.

*STILL trying to process what @Kibbelzhas just announced. I have played the game since 2009 and this has been the worst act of incompetency that I've seen.

 

It is now reasonable to expect people to conduct chargebacks as NCSOFT has shown gross incompetence and lack of accountability for their mistakes. I hope the company goes belly up. Good riddance!

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2 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

unknown.png

Not the same instance, If they were the same instance then they would share CD but they do not. It is a totally different issue. The problem here is people kept reporting SR at the exploit not the SR entry quest.

The kinah exploiters were just abandoning the entry quest doing this over and over creating a new instance zone and the boxes were up again and again.

Just because the instance itself is the same it is still a separate entity to the actual instance. In which it is clear after what kibblez has said NCwest think it is the hairpin repeatable that is the exploit in which it is not.

Think about if you are a ranger and you accidently run out of arrows in a run. Imagine getting banned for 7 days because you left the instance and re-entered the instance with a new fresh set of arrows LOL.

of course its dont have any CD because is a entry quest solo based and you only can enter one time after you leave you never come back .

as i said the NC dont know WHATS IS THE DIFFER OF 

STEEL RAKE - 6 Players 

STEEL RAKE IMAGE MAP  -our mirror map *acess quest*

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1 hour ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly (often dozens of times) to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which relates to prohibited conduct.

@Kibbelz So are you saying that AION having repeatable quest - but if player do that quest repeatedly, player will be banned? Nice move, nice reason, nice excuse for a mistake of ... I dont want to say their name.

Player (should be called BOT) was exploited SR Entry Quest still stay safe I guess.

Player who doing SR's repeatable quests is protagonist in this ban wave.

Well, atleast, my quests were 17/20 and 18/20.

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At this point I'm convinced they want classic to fold.
Some sort of tax break for NC? hahaha.

You got people blatantly animation hacking,  print screening their way out of deaths, botting and everything else under the sun running around like all is fine and dandy.

But people wanting to complete a few extra quests in their ONE instance entry? That people have done since 2009?? Hell no. Ban hammer. Against ToS now. Byebye!

Come on..

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2 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

Just to close out this topic with everyone - there are no issues we have been able to identify with the execution of this ban wave.

While we can empathize with anyone who many have engaged in this behavior unwittingly at the direction of others, knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly (often dozens of times) to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable.

We would encourage all users to review our User Agreement here for further information; specifically Section 3 which relates to prohibited conduct.

I wasn't going to post simply as none of this affects me, however I do quite love these games~

 

Shall I say, the typical way to signal one turn-in per entry is to place the quest NPCs inside the instance, which wasn't done. Even then, there are anchors placed all around the starts and ends of the instance giving the player natural access to the outside to turn in quests rather than having to drop group or use other methods to exit. If you take a look around, no instance anywhere forces you to use an entry to re-enter an open instance, so that wouldn't have been a defense either~

 

Now excuse me, I'll watch someone open fast food place where drinks are no refills and they don't hang a sign saying so, even though it is customary to allow so in the US or hang a sign, and watch them call the coppers on everyone that gets a refill (the coppers don't make a arrest) and watch them wonder where all their customers are in 3 months~

 

Oh my, I sense comical retribution~

And I quite like comical retribution. 🙃

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To give a TL;DR summary of this banwave fiasco...

1. It was brought to attention that players were exploiting the Ban Rake entry quest.

2. NCsoft has come out and assured players that they will investigate and take appropriate action.

3.Players were banned with some not given a reason as to why.

4. NCsoft has come out and avoided any accountability by responding with   "knowingly re-entering a quest instance repeatedly (often dozens of times) to obtain much higher amounts of rewards than intended is neither sustainable, nor acceptable"

5. It is confirmed that Ncsoft intended to  investigate the Ban Rake entry quest exploiters but banned the Ban Rake repeat questers instead.

6. Uproar ensues

 

Prove me wrong.

21 minutes ago, Kitsuney said:

They (Aion) understand the difference but they simply don’t care judging from the official reply here. 

They actually dont understand the difference, which is the frightening thing. The GMs dont play the game so they dont understand the intricacies like players do. The player base demographic in Aion classic are mainly the old gen players since launch and know more about the game than a GM would.

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This response is beyond pathetic. For once, could you pretend you at least play the game cause it's quite clear no one at the company does and instead of admitting not knowing the bug people were reporting on, you're doubling down on a mistake. As a long time veteran that has played since beta, I'm lucky I haven't started doing Steel Rake or I would have gotten banned over something that players did back then and does till this day. If this is the direction you are going to take then unfortunately I'm probably not going to continue my support for this game as who knows when something like this will happen again.

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After 7 days they answer my tickets i got ALL EMAILS IN ONE EMAIL.

 

GM Asin (NCSOFT)

Jul 31, 2021, 5:08 PDT

Hello,

Firstly, this account has been observed in-game displaying numerous characteristics consistent with automated gameplay and the use of third party programs that cannot be replicated with the use of the macro system in-game and other available in-game tools. Please be advised that the use of third party programs with our games is a violation of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct: 

(first GM ASIN says i was caugth by using bot our any program).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

GM Asin (NCSOFT)

Aug 1, 2021, 5:31 PDT

Hello again,

We have thoroughly reviewed this incident and confirmed our initial findings. As such, our decision to uphold the suspension is final.

The account will be accessible again upon completion of the 7-day suspension.

Please understand that there is no further assistance we can provide you regarding this issue.

Regards,

GM Asin
NCSOFT Support Team

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

GM Son (NCSOFT)

Aug 3, 2021, 21:45 PDT

Hello,

Thanks for contacting us!

To further clarify, your account has been observed violating the User Agreement and the Rules of Conduct through the confirmed use of a known exploit in Steel Rake. This abuse has been confirmed both by reports and through the game logs.

so who was telling the truth ?

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