AP Traders. Wipe them. Ban them. Post you have banned them.

[Zzzzzz]

10 minutes ago, Rag-DN said:

AP traders during sieges obtain rewards by flying under the forts and trading kills. This takes away Medals from players that are playing the game legitly and actually contributing to the growth of their faction and community. 

I cannot say much about this because i dont trade AP in this way.   In your case, NCsoft cannot just ban so many people in siege because it will kill the game.

 

26 minutes ago, Rag-DN said:

AP Traders quickly out pace legit players in ranks and gear, allowing them to easily out DPS other players and granting them the advantage of camping vital world bosses that are needed to progress with gear in the game. (This is already happening with Alukina, Menos, and a few other world bosses in game) By doing so they are robbing legit players from the experience of ever even seeing these world bosses or even participate in their raids. Often times the items obtained from these bosses are kept for use by those AP traders or D/E'd for stones to progress their gear. Removing the loot from the community and servers.

This is a complicated issue.  What you are talking about is the DPS in PVE boss fight . The only people can hold advantage for a short time period are the ones who started trading  AP on week 1, skipped all PVE gears and bought PVP gears directly. They will lose their advantage slowly in PVE when other people get their lv50 dungeon weapons. Also, the world boss are usually camped by large guilds and it is nothing about AP trading.

 

48 minutes ago, Rag-DN said:

AP Traders climb the Rankings faster then legit players. This often times can be bad because these players tend to have a "selfish" perspective of gameplay and will not use these vital high rank roles to help the faction, but instead use them as a Trophy position and just sit in town all day while their faction suffers.

Anybody can be selfish and stay in town, not only AP traders.  The people who are saving AP not for gears will quit PVP eventually because they cannot afford a single death at a certain rank.

 

52 minutes ago, Rag-DN said:

AP trading causes other players to feel like they do not stand a chance to progress in the game, or they feel inadequate to continue to play the game as they can't figure out how the AP traders are gearing up so quickly. This discourages new and remaining players. I have witnessed  on multiple occasion top tier players leave the game due to these practices. Some of these players that have left would also be considered "whales" by the NCwest staff, meaning less $$$ is being spent on the Aion game which effects us all.

This is a problem of all games with vertical progression.  There are always some people can gear up faster. In this game, new players can also trade AP and catch up fast so AP trading is actually helping them.  The whales quit or not should not be your concern. Either there is not enough P2W for them or they cannot afford the price of winning. 

[Alvie]

6 hours ago, Swaggy said:

People are getting 1 million AP a week lol. Dredge is gonna be so nyerked.

Where are these people getting 1million AP per week? Name the legion they are in?

If you look at the AP the top legions have, then divide it by the number of toons in each legion, you see that over 300k AP is a pretty common average, however, that's earned since the game started which was over 8 weeks ago.

[Squid]

1 hour ago, Alvie said:

Where are these people getting 1million AP per week? Name the legion they are in?

If you look at the AP the top legions have, then divide it by the number of toons in each legion, you see that over 300k AP is a pretty common average, however, that's earned since the game started which was over 8 weeks ago.

Calling people out on the forums is against ToS and gets you banned, Not worth.

[Stormwing]

@Merini:
Would posting the same text once not suffice?

[Rag-DN]

17 hours ago, Zzzzzz said:

I cannot say much about this because i dont trade AP in this way.   In your case, NCsoft cannot just ban so many people in siege because it will kill the game.

 

When we have several hundred people participating in siege legitly as the game devs intended while there's a dozen others not participating but trading AP under the forts to rob legit players from fort defense rewards it really screws up the in-game mechanics and disheartens players to play together. And NCsoft could easily ban these people because banning a dozen people EXPLOITING would not kill the game. What will kill the game is people working hard, playing the game how it's intended and not getting rewards for doing so because a handful of lazy people are taking short cuts to rob others.  Would NCwest rather nyerk off 100s of players doing legit fort defense, or just a handful of ill-legitimate players that are exploiting and causing harm to the general population?

 

 

17 hours ago, Zzzzzz said:

This is a complicated issue.  What you are talking about is the DPS in PVE boss fight . The only people can hold advantage for a short time period are the ones who started trading  AP on week 1, skipped all PVE gears and bought PVP gears directly. They will lose their advantage slowly in PVE when other people get their lv50 dungeon weapons. Also, the world boss are usually camped by large guilds and it is nothing about AP trading.

 

I don't think you're very familiar with the game. The PVE sets in the game are only 4 or 5 slot sets if you're lucky. PVP gear is 6 slot. Even if a player has a full PVE set from DC and sockets it with lvl 50 stones it doesn't compare to the 30 non-elite PVP set that can only use lvl 40 stones.

For example the Sunrise set (Cloth from DC) fully socketed can only hit a maximum magic boost of  763 Vs the the 30 non-elite fabled PVP set that hits 909 magic boost. That's a HUGE difference in a PVE needed stat and will make the AP gear wearer always out dps the PVE wearer.

Ontop of this these players will go out and get their PVE weapons and combine them with the 6 slot PVP weapons which basically makes them gods. 
As for the "World boss are usually camped by large guilds and it is nothing about AP trading."  Go watch the world bosses... just go see who is sitting there, then go to fort defense and watch who is AP trading under the forts...spoiler alert, it's the same people.

 

17 hours ago, Zzzzzz said:

This is a problem of all games with vertical progression.  There are always some people can gear up faster. In this game, new players can also trade AP and catch up fast so AP trading is actually helping them.  The whales quit or not should not be your concern. 

So because previous players EXPLOITED you say that new players should exploit as well? That logic is exactly why the retail community  died. Believe it or not, MOST players do not exploit. A few bad apples though do spoil the whole barrel.

 

We should be concerned if the whales quit or not. They fund the game, without them NCwest doesn't get a paycheck. They don't get a paycheck, they do server merges and then eventually close down the game. So by saying we shouldn't care, you are saying you don't care if the game dies. Some of us love the game, we just hate how a few players exploit it and ruin it for the rest of the community. These players that exploit do not have a passion for the game, they merely have a passion for cheating the system and ruining the experience of other players. 
 

[Ele-DN]

Remove ap. Remove pvp gear.

[Migetsu]

27 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Remove ap. Remove pvp gear.

yeah ok , Runescape for you i guess lol ! 

[Rag-DN]

55 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Remove ap. Remove pvp gear.

They just need to fix the contribution area perimeters. Make it so pvping under the forts doesn't count. Makes 1 less spot for them to AP trade privately so itll be harder to do so, OR implement the AP cap from single target kills after 2 kills for 1 hour. There's a ton of solutions they could take.

[Zzzzzz]

5 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

When we have several hundred people participating in siege legitly as the game devs intended while there's a dozen others not participating but trading AP under the forts to rob legit players from fort defense rewards it really screws up the in-game mechanics and disheartens players to play together. And NCsoft could easily ban these people because banning a dozen people EXPLOITING would not kill the game. What will kill the game is people working hard, playing the game how it's intended and not getting rewards for doing so because a handful of lazy people are taking short cuts to rob others.  Would NCwest rather nyerk off 100s of players doing legit fort defense, or just a handful of ill-legitimate players that are exploiting and causing harm to the general population?

I don't want to argue something without true statement. We have no way to count how many traders are there and we can never know if banning them will kill the game.

By the way, I am talking about the AP trading in general. I don't trade during siege so i don't know how bad it is.  Many people include myself dont really care about medals, we just buy it from broker and its not expensive.  All I want is the PVP set and I am not gonna keep AP rank.  AP trading is not abusing bug or using 3rd party software so I don't think its exploiting.

 

5 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

I don't think you're very familiar with the game. The PVE sets in the game are only 4 or 5 slot sets if you're lucky. PVP gear is 6 slot. Even if a player has a full PVE set from DC and sockets it with lvl 50 stones it doesn't compare to the 30 non-elite PVP set that can only use lvl 40 stones.

For example the Sunrise set (Cloth from DC) fully socketed can only hit a maximum magic boost of  763 Vs the the 30 non-elite fabled PVP set that hits 909 magic boost. That's a HUGE difference in a PVE needed stat and will make the AP gear wearer always out dps the PVE wearer.

Ontop of this these players will go out and get their PVE weapons and combine them with the 6 slot PVP weapons which basically makes them gods. 
As for the "World boss are usually camped by large guilds and it is nothing about AP trading."  Go watch the world bosses... just go see who is sitting there, then go to fort defense and watch who is AP trading under the forts...spoiler alert, it's the same people.

I thought you are smart enough to not leave such commends. The level 30 PVP set is easy to get without trading AP. People can get it by doing a few quests and turn in the crown from Dpass. That's it.  The only advantage of AP trader is that they might have level 40 PVP set,  but this is only a minor advantage in PVE.

Did you ever read my post  ? I said dungeon WEAPON, not the sunrise set in your example.  You can fuse your Triroan weapon with a 6 slot PvP weapon and you will only have 2 less slots than the AP traders who fused 2 PVP weapons. I don't think these 2slots will break the entire PVE balance.

5 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

So because previous players EXPLOITED you say that new players should exploit as well? That logic is exactly why the retail community  died. Believe it or not, MOST players do not exploit. A few bad apples though do spoil the whole barrel.

Still , what made you think AP trading is an exploit ?  Do you think new players should keep getting killed in PvP until they can catch up in PVP gears ? How can they catch up when the old players are still keep playing ?  I don't play retail and i couldnt know how it is.  IMO, this kind of game should really die because there are too many unreasonable and imbalanced stuffs. I clearly know that the devs of this game already left and nobody will rework on it.

5 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

We should be concerned if the whales quit or not. They fund the game, without them NCwest doesn't get a paycheck. They don't get a paycheck, they do server merges and then eventually close down the game. So by saying we shouldn't care, you are saying you don't care if the game dies. Some of us love the game, we just hate how a few players exploit it and ruin it for the rest of the community. These players that exploit do not have a passion for the game, they merely have a passion for cheating the system and ruining the experience of other players. 

IMO, the people who are supporting NCsoft are the ones who want to donate money. Some of them buy costumes instead of candy and some of them maxed out Dpass upon reset. They don't have to be whales. NCsoft are really trying to keep these donators instead of big whales or there would be more P2W items.

Yeah, I don't really care if the game dies because I don't love it as much as you do.  Many of us are not kids anymore so we care about winning and balancement more than just playing the game itself.  Aion is not good on these parts.

I realized that our discussions are unnecessary because you are talking about PVE mostly but I only care about PVP.

[Stormwing]

@Zzzzzz:
Why would banning AP-traders kill the game?

[Squid]

2 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Zzzzzz:
Why would banning AP-traders kill the game?

Because there are more AP traders then legitimate players now that is why.

[Bip]

2 hours ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Because there are more AP traders then legitimate players now that is why.

I doubt that.

And I'm all in for a full account strip. DON'T ban them, just remove EVERY PIECE OF GEAR THEY HAVE. It should be worse than a ban. And funny af.

[Alvie]

15 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Zzzzzz:
Why would banning AP-traders kill the game?

Banning anything kills the game slightly.

The fault is in the way AP works, not the trading.

As, I have pointed out twice before, when you kill another player of the opposite faction, you gain way more AP than they loose, that's a serious design flaw, AP is being created out of thin air. So the two players can kill each other in turn and make heaps of AP over and over. Both gain AP.

It needs to be changed so you gain exactly the same AP as the opponent looses, doesn't matter what the value is, as long as it's exactly the same, then no new AP is created inflating the system, it's only being transferred.

The new AP in the game will then come from quests, mobs, whatever, but not from killing other players, that will just be a transfer of old AP.

[Ele-DN]

Its not a design flaw. Ap is gained till the 4th kill. After that there is none to be gain but the one dieing will still lose ap.

[Stormwing]

@Alvie:
While you are repeating an assertion, you are still not providing reason.

@General:
From what I gathered over these posts..
.. banning bots would kill the game, mostly because some players are too lazy to gather materials and/or items themselves
.. banning ap traders would kill the game just for the sake of it
.. banning cheaters would kill the game because it has a low population already
.. banning anyone is silly since those were all around a decade ago which legitimates them to be around now as well
.. banning the Steelrake offenders (the real ones) is bad because banning just is not the solution

Be that as it may, the huge justification on the board and also in game for cheaters and bots is irritating me. So by all means, everyone should just bot, cheat and ap trade since you basically may not ban anyone violating conduct or misbehaving.

[Alvie]

21 minutes ago, Stormwing said:

@Alvie:
While you are repeating an assertion, you are still not providing reason.

...

Just because you didn't understand my reasoning, doesn't mean others here don't.

I thought it was rather clear, conjuring AP out of thin air is bad for the game, and LOTS of people object to it, hence this thread in the first place.

[Stormwing]

@Alvie:
You did not provide any reason on why banning ap traders would kill the game. You merely elaborated on what you believe being the issue of the abyss point system.

[Voodoodoctor-DN]

This AP trading thing has been going on for 12 years. NCwest won't be able to do a thing unless its blatantly obvious. What you do is mark the players known to AP trade and follow them around to leech their kills.

[Alvie]

52 minutes ago, Voodoodoctor-DN said:

This AP trading thing has been going on for 12 years. NCwest won't be able to do a thing unless its blatantly obvious. What you do is mark the players known to AP trade and follow them around to leech their kills.

It's not the same.

Back in 2009 if you wanted to AP trade, you needed buddies in the opposite faction or pay for 2 subscriptions.

Now you don't need 2 subscriptions because you can roll a free 2nd. account on the opposite faction, and farm AP between your own toons without needing anyone's help. You can get a lot of AP from 6 alts on the opposite faction because of the way a kill creates AP out of thin air, even if your 6 alts are only rank 9, which they won't be for long if they farm you back.

 

[Voodoodoctor-DN]

1 hour ago, Alvie said:

Back in 2009 if you wanted to AP trade, you needed buddies in the opposite faction or pay for 2 subscriptions.

Aion went f2p not too long after 2009. The Ap trading occured during all the sieges of the f2p era. You soon know the same players conducting the trades and just follow them around to leech.

[Alvie]

44 minutes ago, Voodoodoctor-DN said:

Aion went f2p not too long after 2009. The Ap trading occured during all the sieges of the f2p era. You soon know the same players conducting the trades and just follow them around to leech.

Yeah, but at that point there were alternatives for AP like fort instances and Dredge. Not all people want to exploit bad design, they would rather get legit AP.

[5s124D6A-DN]

Yet another old topic about AP Trading. How many is there?