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With this video and the other two or three on this site has somebody been able to make a list of the names so we can actively check up on those characters to see if NC will actually ban them because if they don't then they are basically stating it is okay to do in Classic. 

As a side note, that is a LOT of AP to be trading with rank 1s (1k AP net per trade!). No wonder so many have such good gear already.

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3 minutes ago, Foxymelody said:

this game is over

No, because most players are doing other things than worrying about kill traders. eg. TLAB runs and pursuit of extended weapons.

The videos do point out that prohibition of kill trading is useless, and a proper engineering solution from the devs is required.

eg. adjusting the AP reward tables.

Edited by Alvie
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31 minutes ago, Alvie said:

No, because most players are doing other things than worrying about kill traders. eg. TLAB runs and pursuit of extended weapons.

The videos do point out that prohibition of kill trading is useless, and a proper engineering solution from the devs is required.

eg. adjusting the AP reward tables.

adjusting the AP reward tables penalizes true PvP players, its easy to hit the cap limit just by PvPing.  

Not just AP trading but game in general need some serious solutions from Ncsoft

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19 minutes ago, Alvie said:

No, because most players are doing other things than worrying about kill traders. eg. TLAB runs and pursuit of extended weapons.

The videos do point out that prohibition of kill trading is useless, and a proper engineering solution from the devs is required.

eg. adjusting the AP reward tables.

You keep saying this but everything you have proposed is either equally or more deeply flawed. People will find ways to abuse whatever system you put in place and, based on a mountain of evidence over the years, when NCsoft increases their developmental control over a situation the average player suffers.  I'd offer you a pile of examples but I can't imagine you'd even begin to listen to something outside this answer you've decided is correct all by yourself.

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59 minutes ago, Alvie said:

No, because most players are doing other things than worrying about kill traders. eg. TLAB runs and pursuit of extended weapons.

The videos do point out that prohibition of kill trading is useless, and a proper engineering solution from the devs is required.

eg. adjusting the AP reward tables.

Oh alvie alvie... not everyone cares to do pve-only content over and over again just to get that pve drop. On one point I cannot understand people who are doing an instance 500 times and are still going to do it, on the other hand I am jealous of their inability to get bored in general.

Those that want to reach end game to get pvp gear so they can enjoy the sieges, open world pvp, later pvp instances AND reach a high rank status... they care about AP trading more than running yet another TLAB instance.

======

Whatever you do to make the AP trading harder, you end up making the same toughness against legit players.

  • Limit more the amount of AP you can get from pvp in any form...
    -> The AP trader can wait before he kills the next alt a little more, he has time.
    -> The open world pvper will have no incentive to keep pvping once he hits the limit if he gains nothing and can only lose for some time.
     
  • Can't generate AP from thin air (aka gain only the amount you remove from opponent, rank 9 with 0 AP cannot give AP to opponent)...
    -> The AP trader will farm with his alts a little bit in Abyss or do a quest that gives 1k AP or something which will be enough.
         They won't care if their alt dies, it won't lose much and the incentive is their main to not have to engage in pvp.
    -> The open world pvpers will see less AP in general so PvE will be the best source of AP because it can generate AP from thin air!
     
  • The only thing they SHOULD do is remove the AP limit during sieges, if anyone can bring alts to a massive event to do AP trading not only he will be seen but also others will kill his alts before he can.

======

---> Sadly AP trading can only be addressed by active inspection, if you gain/trade AP by killing an opponent, then AP trading WILL be a thing no matter the limitations or proposals you make.

Edited by Arhangelos
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45 minutes ago, Fest-DN said:

You keep saying this but everything you have proposed is either equally or more deeply flawed. People will find ways to abuse whatever system you put in place and, based on a mountain of evidence over the years, when NCsoft increases their developmental control over a situation the average player suffers.  I'd offer you a pile of examples but I can't imagine you'd even begin to listen to something outside this answer you've decided is correct all by yourself.

Therefore you have nothing to offer this thread other than criticizing other posters.

I have proposed AP reward changes so that the AP gained by the killer can be no more than the AP the victim looses, hence you can't gain AP from an opponent which already has zero AP.  It's a simple  table adjustment with huge impact. Anybody that takes the time to think about it will see the implications of this on kill trading.

 

 

 

Edited by Alvie
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19 minutes ago, Alvie said:

Therefore you have nothing to offer this thread other than criticizing other posters.

I have proposed AP reward changes so that the AP gained by the killer can be no more than the AP the victim looses, also you can't gain AP from an opponent which has zero AP.  It's a simple  table adjustment with huge impact. Anybody that takes the time to think about it will see the implications of this on kill trading.

 

 

 

It has zero (positive) impact and my offering to this thread is the valid criticism of an idea that would result in further damaging an already flawed system. You say that if you take the time to think about it you'll see the implications but I'd invite you to do so yourself. @Arhangelos laid most of the flaws out in pretty plain language for you. You're designing a system around the bad actors and not the general playerbase, this is why the idea is flawed. You institute punishment in a system designed to reward the player for taking risks while making the punishment for failure less severe. This is not a perfect system. It has many thoroughly documented flaws, but what you suggest would essentially render the entire PvP-scene an AP loss nightmare.

The abusers of this system are absolute jokes and should be held accountable for their obvious violations. Seriously, who can't just build their set over time via normal methods? I'm not even 50 and my accessories are virtually done and I've pocketed my first 30e piece while barely having 3 hours a day to scrape together for play. Dredge and fort instances are on the horizon and they want to huddle up beneath forts and kill swap? Not a PvPer among them. Just carebares who need to crutch their gear. Nobody worth designing a system around, wipe their gear and wish them a good day.

Edited by Fest-DN
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2 hours ago, Fest-DN said:

The abusers of this system are absolute jokes and should be held accountable for their obvious violations. 

Funnily enough AP traders that have their goals are uploading recordings and posting them. Basically right now it is the original AP traders recording the ones who got caught by FOMO due to NCwests slow reaction to our complaints. It is rather funny tho that AP traders are trying to get other AP traders banned to keep the advantage they were AP trading for.

It is what it is and even if NCwest ban people they will not ban the big spenders we have seen this in the past already so there will still be lots of players running around with their ill-gotten gains.

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2 hours ago, Alvie said:

Therefore you have nothing to offer this thread other than criticizing other posters.

I have proposed AP reward changes so that the AP gained by the killer can be no more than the AP the victim looses, hence you can't gain AP from an opponent which already has zero AP.  It's a simple  table adjustment with huge impact. Anybody that takes the time to think about it will see the implications of this on kill trading.

 

 

 

Please stay on topic.

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14 hours ago, Alvie said:

Therefore you have nothing to offer this thread other than criticizing other posters.

I have proposed AP reward changes so that the AP gained by the killer can be no more than the AP the victim looses, hence you can't gain AP from an opponent which already has zero AP.  It's a simple  table adjustment with huge impact. Anybody that takes the time to think about it will see the implications of this on kill trading.

It is the free to play that creates all the issues.

All these myriads of free accounts would either not exist or have to pay a subscription for the alts to level to 42+ just to be able to transfer 400 AP or something per kill at rank 9 (or whatever the amount is)

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On 8/23/2021 at 6:08 PM, Arhangelos said:

Oh alvie alvie... not everyone cares to do pve-only content over and over again just to get that pve drop. On one point I cannot understand people who are doing an instance 500 times and are still going to do it, on the other hand I am jealous of their inability to get bored in general.

Those that want to reach end game to get pvp gear so they can enjoy the sieges, open world pvp, later pvp instances AND reach a high rank status... they care about AP trading more than running yet another TLAB instance.

======

Whatever you do to make the AP trading harder, you end up making the same toughness against legit players.

  • Limit more the amount of AP you can get from pvp in any form...
    -> The AP trader can wait before he kills the next alt a little more, he has time.
    -> The open world pvper will have no incentive to keep pvping once he hits the limit if he gains nothing and can only lose for some time.
     
  • Can't generate AP from thin air (aka gain only the amount you remove from opponent, rank 9 with 0 AP cannot give AP to opponent)...
    -> The AP trader will farm with his alts a little bit in Abyss or do a quest that gives 1k AP or something which will be enough.
         They won't care if their alt dies, it won't lose much and the incentive is their main to not have to engage in pvp.
    -> The open world pvpers will see less AP in general so PvE will be the best source of AP because it can generate AP from thin air!
     
  • The only thing they SHOULD do is remove the AP limit during sieges, if anyone can bring alts to a massive event to do AP trading not only he will be seen but also others will kill his alts before he can.

======

---> Sadly AP trading can only be addressed by active inspection, if you gain/trade AP by killing an opponent, then AP trading WILL be a thing no matter the limitations or proposals you make.

this has to be one of the most head scratches ive seen.

 

only thing that needs to be done, that has been mention before. all the people that are involved. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.   dont ban them. wipe the accounts, of all AP gear, AP gained,  make them earn their gear like the rest of us. For people that are AP traders. It shows you cant earn your gear. You have to cheat/exploit to gain an advantage over the players that are legit. AP trading is how do i say in a peaceful manor without hurting peoples feelings.  I cant actually. Its an epeen issue. 

 

Also id say half of the AP traders are using 3rd party programs. you know what im saying. 

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28 minutes ago, Buttershotz said:

this has to be one of the most head scratches ive seen.

only thing that needs to be done, that has been mention before. all the people that are involved. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.   dont ban them. wipe the accounts, of all AP gear, AP gained,  make them earn their gear like the rest of us. For people that are AP traders. It shows you cant earn your gear. You have to cheat/exploit to gain an advantage over the players that are legit. AP trading is how do i say in a peaceful manor without hurting peoples feelings.  I cant actually. Its an epeen issue.

Also id say half of the AP traders are using 3rd party programs. you know what im saying. 

You quoted the wrong person. I agree on them getting the AP removed and I insist that changing how you get AP is not going to solve the AP trading.

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