Crit and Attack

[Merrixx]

Does attack increase damage on skills for a ranger? Or is it only the skill damage in description?

 

Also, I see 2 crit caps talked about. 440 for the soft cap, and then I see others say it is maxed out at 500 for 50% (not including strike resist in this).  Any insight into this would be very much appreciated. Thank you. 

 

P.S. please merge both servers NC  

[Jake-DN]

The crit formula was rewritten in 5.x iirc, at least some time way after the 2.x era that our damage formulas are following now. 

 

There is no HARD cap on crit right now, 

10 Crit = 1 % chance to crit, up until 440 (44%) which then starts diminishing returns. This is a soft cap.  Getting 500 crit will only make it 47%, and then some point you need 50 more crit for each 1% or so afterwards. Realistically, maintaining the 44% is all that's needed as you sacrifice way too much other stats to get the small gains. 

Currently there are no mobs in pve that have Strike resist iirc, so you're solid if all you want to do is PvE by just getting 440 crit. Players can get a little over 200 Strike Resist, so aiming for 650-700 Crit when for PvP is ideal when at end game gear.

 

 

As far as attack goes, Yes, Attack does increase skill damage. There is a common misconception that the additive attack only effects auto attack damage but that is false. 

You do not want to slot attack as a ranger though. 

[The Secret Cow Level]

Classic auto attack damage formula:

• Attack damage = {(Weapon damage * [Power / 100 + % attack bonus] + Straight attack bonus) * movement modifier  - opponent Defense / 10} * product of all other %-based damage bonuses

Classic physical attack skill damage formula:

• Attack damage = {(Weapon damage * [Power / 100 + % attack bonus] + Skill damage + Straight attack bonus) * OneTimeBoostSkillAttack bonus * movement modifier  - opponent Defense / 10} * product of all other %-based damage bonuses

Where:

• Weapon damage = random(minimum damage, maximum damage) + Enchantment damage + Power shards
• % attack bonus is calculated from your Weapon Damage - attack buffs don't count
• Straight attack bonus examples:
  • +attack manastones
  • +attack listed in bonus stat section of gear (such as shoulder armor)
  • +attack from food
  • +attack from title
• Skill damage: refer to the Skillatk_Instant damage values in my list of player skills
  • For monster attack skills, this damage a percentage on the monster's weapon damage
    • the attack skill damages shown on that spreadsheet already includes the base damage, so 1.85x physical damage means that skill has a +85% damage
• OneTimeBoostSkillAttack effects is found in
  • Killer's Eye (50%, 1 skill) - Assassin
  • Focused Shots (30%, 5 skills) - Ranger
• product of all other %-based damage bonuses: examples:
  • 1.1x/1.2x/1.3x: 2/3/4-strike auto attack
  • 1.5x to 2.3x: Critical hit damage multiplier depending on weapon
  • 0.7x to 0.25x: blocked attack
  • 0.6x: parried attack
  • Net PvP Attack, if target is a player
    • Net PvP Attack, PvP Attack - opponent PvP Defense
  • 0.5x: PvP damage reduction (player or summoned pet/servant/totem attacking another player or summoned pet/servant/totem)

For magical auto attacks, replace Power with Knowledge, and the damage reduction from Defense do not apply.

 

[Neferupito]

10 hours ago, The Secret Cow Level said:

Classic auto attack damage formula:

• Attack damage = {(Weapon damage * [Power / 100 + % attack bonus] + Straight attack bonus) * movement modifier  - opponent Defense / 10} * product of all other %-based damage bonuses

Classic physical attack skill damage formula:

• Attack damage = {(Weapon damage * [Power / 100 + % attack bonus] + Skill damage + Straight attack bonus) * OneTimeBoostSkillAttack bonus * movement modifier  - opponent Defense / 10} * product of all other %-based damage bonuses

Where:

• Weapon damage = random(minimum damage, maximum damage) + Enchantment damage + Power shards
• % attack bonus is calculated from your Weapon Damage - attack buffs don't count
• Straight attack bonus examples:
  • +attack manastones
  • +attack listed in bonus stat section of gear (such as shoulder armor)
  • +attack from food
  • +attack from title
• Skill damage: refer to the Skillatk_Instant damage values in my list of player skills
  • For monster attack skills, this damage a percentage on the monster's weapon damage
    • the attack skill damages shown on that spreadsheet already includes the base damage, so 1.85x physical damage means that skill has a +85% damage
• OneTimeBoostSkillAttack effects is found in
  • Killer's Eye (50%, 1 skill) - Assassin
  • Focused Shots (30%, 5 skills) - Ranger
• product of all other %-based damage bonuses: examples:
  • 1.1x/1.2x/1.3x: 2/3/4-strike auto attack
  • 1.5x to 2.3x: Critical hit damage multiplier depending on weapon
  • 0.7x to 0.25x: blocked attack
  • 0.6x: parried attack
  • Net PvP Attack, if target is a player
    • Net PvP Attack, PvP Attack - opponent PvP Defense
  • 0.5x: PvP damage reduction (player or summoned pet/servant/totem attacking another player or summoned pet/servant/totem)

For magical auto attacks, replace Power with Knowledge, and the damage reduction from Defense do not apply.

 

I believe you, but what's your source?

[The Secret Cow Level]

19 minutes ago, Neferupito said:

I believe you, but what's your source?

My testing spreadsheets:

• 5.6
• 4.9 through 5.1

[Disregard-DN]

14 hours ago, Jake-DN said:

There is no HARD cap on crit right now, 

10 Crit = 1 % chance to crit, up until 440 (44%) which then starts diminishing returns. This is a soft cap.  Getting 500 crit will only make it 47%, and then some point you need 50 more crit for each 1% or so afterwards. Realistically, maintaining the 44% is all that's needed as you sacrifice way too much other stats to get the small gains. 

Currently there are no mobs in pve that have Strike resist iirc, so you're solid if all you want to do is PvE by just getting 440 crit. Players can get a little over 200 Strike Resist, so aiming for 650-700 Crit when for PvP is ideal when at end game gear.

This is false info and everyone seems to think this for some reason, but they're getting their info mixed up. Please stop spreading it.

There IS a hard cap on crit, and that hard cap is 50%. Originally in aion 1.5 retail release, there was no crit cap. There was a softcap at 440 (44%)  where all further crit was halved, and then at 500 (47%) quartered, such that you needed 620 crit to truly reach 50% crit chance. It just wasn't really viable to use 1/4 potency  manastones, so people mostly stopped at 440 or 500, with only a few players opting to just stack full crit. That was all scrapped when they introduced strike resist. Once strike resist was added, the softcaps were deleted. Aion Classic runs off the 2.7 client and has those crit and strike resist changes already implimented.

If you want hard proof, boot up ARM or MYaion  and whack a dummy  with exactly 500 crit for a half hour and you'll come back to see 50% with 1% margin of error, rather than the 47% the old system would have resulted in. AT the very least you'll see that your claim of "needing 50 crit for 1% after 440" is extremely wrong, as that would show up as 45%, which it won't.

For PVE, just get to 500 crit. The best bet is to get to 450-455. Use calydon meat dumplings / ginseng pickles as your food buff for 50 more crit, or a chanter's crit mantra for 45 more crit, to reach the 500 cap. Beyond that you can just socket attack.

For PVP, a full +10 armor set will grant 130 strike resist. For the super pvpers in 30e that can cheaply +15 their sets right now, they'll have 195 strike resist. You can get SR from accessories, but not from pvp accessories, so nobody will have more than 195 SR, with 2 exceptions: People who buy radiant ops / blood crusade wings that give 15 more, and people who are super tryharding using strike resist scrolls for +30, but you really aren't likely to encounter those.

If you only have 1 set you use for both PVE and PVP, 490 crit + greater scroll  + food gets you 630 for 50% in pvp and 49% in pve using attack food instead and no scroll. If you have 2 sets, keep your pve set at 450 unbuffed and your pvp set at like 560 unbuffed to reach the 500 and 700 you need after buffs with each set.

[Merrixx]

21 hours ago, Jake-DN said:

The crit formula was rewritten in 5.x iirc, at least some time way after the 2.x era that our damage formulas are following now. 

 

There is no HARD cap on crit right now, 

10 Crit = 1 % chance to crit, up until 440 (44%) which then starts diminishing returns. This is a soft cap.  Getting 500 crit will only make it 47%, and then some point you need 50 more crit for each 1% or so afterwards. Realistically, maintaining the 44% is all that's needed as you sacrifice way too much other stats to get the small gains. 

Currently there are no mobs in pve that have Strike resist iirc, so you're solid if all you want to do is PvE by just getting 440 crit. Players can get a little over 200 Strike Resist, so aiming for 650-700 Crit when for PvP is ideal when at end game gear.

 

 

As far as attack goes, Yes, Attack does increase skill damage. There is a common misconception that the additive attack only effects auto attack damage but that is false. 

You do not want to slot attack as a ranger though. 

You say to not slot attack as a ranger. If you reach the cap why wouldn't you?

[Qyburn-DN]

8 hours ago, Merrixx said:

You say to not slot attack as a ranger. If you reach the cap why wouldn't you?

I've done my tests here on classic and I disagree with it myself. However the truth is that "green attack" isn't as valuable since it's not multiplied by ranger's buffs. It still gives you a fair amount of damage though.

Crit to cap, rest Attack is the best PVE build. For PVP you might be better off with Crit to a certain amount, rest HP, especially in the current patch.

[Neferupito]

1 hour ago, Qyburn-DN said:

I've done my tests here on classic and I disagree with it myself. However the truth is that "green attack" isn't as valuable since it's not multiplied by ranger's buffs. It still gives you a fair amount of damage though.

Crit to cap, rest Attack is the best PVE build. For PVP you might be better off with Crit to a certain amount, rest HP, especially in the current patch.

Yeah, when a sorc can hit you for 5K dmg, I'd rather have 600 extra hp rather than 30 attack

[Zionxi-KT]

i mean, for pvp, you could also go crit to cap and than MA stones. make sure youre debuffs land, so you keep glads/templars slowed or make sure your silences land along with other skills so that you can bury your silences.