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How the hell is Apsuranta located in this place?


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They wanted to delete maps to simplify the game and they made up a botched story that a woman named Ereshkigal came and destroyed it.
It is like kids saying "aliens came messed up the kitchen trying to steal cookies" or something.

The Aion lore is full of loop holes and inconsistencies by itself, when implemented into the game, they forget 90% of it.

Asmodians and Elyos shouldn't even be able to have the same transformations to begin with. The females should have had a female version and the males a male version for every transform.

Gear shouldn't even look the same for each faction, the wings used to be different during the first patches in every upgrade we did, then they implemented all kinds of common wings and the thing is they do not even have race oriented skinned wings at least anymore.

They even removed the claws from the feet and hands of Asmodians as if anyone ever asked for this. Thank goodness we the Asmodians still have our eyes glow red when in combat.

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16 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

This geolocation used to be Cygnea and Enshar. Placing Apsuranta in this archipelago/island/desert (??) whitout any cannon explanation is so lazy IMHO.

If you really wanna put in the mental gymnastics; it could be said that Panesterra being referred to in-game as an alternate dimension where realms collided as an explanation for the cross-server element, and that Crimson Katalam too exists as an alternate cross-server dimension accessible only via portal, Apsaranta may very well exist as a similar alternate dimension xserver realm. After all, CKT/CDN's positions on the map are inaccurate too now, but they're there just for convenience of access.

Dunno why they wouldn't just draw another island or make it float above the map or outside Atreia like Panesterra does. It's a 2D asset. It's not like the recent patches haven't had really interesting lore going on, it's just that NC Korea chooses weird places to cut corners >_>

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8 minutes ago, Arhangelos said:

Asmodians and Elyos shouldn't even be able to have the same transformations to begin with. The females should have had a female version and the males a male version for every transform.

Wait, why? o-O Transformation is to become something other than you are; to transition your form, to change, to be made different. Why would gender matter to a daeva's ability to transform? Seems like a pretty weak transform ability if you can look like skeletons and empyrean lords but your power is capped at gender :P

[Edit]
Similarly confused why transformation would be capped by race too, for the above reasons

Edited by AriaTheMelodious-DN
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8 minutes ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

Wait, why? o-O Transformation is to become something other than you are; to transition your form, to change, to be made different. Why would gender matter to a daeva's ability to transform? Seems like a pretty weak transform ability if you can look like skeletons and empyrean lords but your power is capped at gender :P

There is a Bolvig for males, they should have had a female Vampire version. It is not like they can't pull some lore out of their heads to justify it.

How can an Asmodian be Kaisinel and an Elyos be Machutan? The cat transforms for example are based on your gender, pixels transforms too. With the exception of animals that can look pretty much identical the named ones should have been given a better detail.

We have female-only skins and we can't have a more fluid way of making transforms. And this is not just for the transforms, the skins, the wings etc.

They could have kept things more spicy and separated between the two factions, they made us look identical and they threw the whole lore out of the window.

Edited by Arhangelos
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Just now, Arhangelos said:

There is a Bolvig for males, they should have had a female Vampire version. It is not like they can't pull some lore out of their heads to pull this off.

How can an Asmodian be kaisinel and how can an Elyos be Machutan?

I mean we have female-only skins and we can't have a more fluid way of making transforms.

They could have kept things more spicy and separated between the two factions, they made us look pretty much identical and they threw the whole lore out of the window.

To be clear I am not saying more options would be bad, I am just not sure why a Male/Female transformation crossover "should" be prevented by having all the transforms gender-locked. Again, why would race matter for an Elyos becoming Marchutan? Marchu is an Empyrean Lord who is quite famous and well known. An ability to use an aether-discipline to transform yourself would be pretty heckin' limited if the requirements were "they have to be your gender AND they have to be someone you're politically aligned with or personally well acquainted with." :')

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14 minutes ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

To be clear I am not saying more options would be bad, I am just not sure why a Male/Female transformation crossover "should" be prevented by having all the transforms gender-locked. Again, why would race matter for an Elyos becoming Marchutan? Marchu is an Empyrean Lord who is quite famous and well known. An ability to use an aether-discipline to transform yourself would be pretty heckin' limited if the requirements were "they have to be your gender AND they have to be someone you're politically aligned with or personally well acquainted with." :')

Empyrean Lords are their own entities, they owe us no explanation, but the two races follow specific lords. So we do have to give an excuse on why we are aligned with the opposite ones.

This is the equivalent of a liberal wearing a MAGA hat or a Christian praying in the name of Buddha and even worse in Aion lore, we are supposed to be in an endless war between us. A christian and a Buddhist can co-exist in real life, in game an Elyos and an Asmodians should be enemies and the Lords should be either followed or despised by each race.

Edited by Arhangelos
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1 hour ago, Arhangelos said:

Empyrean Lords are their own entities, they owe us no explanation, but the two races follow specific lords. So we do have to give an excuse on why we are aligned with the opposite ones.

This is the equivalent of a liberal wearing a MAGA hat or a Christian praying in the name of Buddha and even worse in Aion lore, we are supposed to be in an endless war between us. A christian and a Buddhist can co-exist in real life, in game an Elyos and an Asmodians should be enemies and the Lords should be either followed or despised by each race.

The point is that one can put on a red hat, and they have transformed their image. You don't become Marchutan or Kaisinel, you just steal their look. A more apt religious example would be the hundreds of times Jewish actors have dressed up and assumed the role of Nazis or Hitler. I get that Elyos don't worship Asmodian lords, but why would that affect their ability to mimic them?

Transformation is not worship :P

Just comes back to what I said before about unnecessary arbitrary transform restrictions. Should it be just as forbidden for EITHER faction to transform into a Kobold or a Lepharist? Because we can do both

Edited by AriaTheMelodious-DN
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2 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

The point is that one can put on a red hat, and they have transformed their image. You don't become Marchutan or Kaisinel, you just steal their look. A more apt religious example would be the hundreds of times Jewish actors have dressed up and assumed the role of Nazis or Hitler. I get that Elyos don't worship Asmodian lords, but why would that affect their ability to mimic them?

Transformation is not worship :P

Just comes back to what I said before about unnecessary arbitrary transform restrictions. Should it be just as forbidden for EITHER faction to transform into a Kobold or a Lepharist? Because we can do both

Now you did some mental gymnastic there, not a single jewish person would portray a nazi in a pro-nazi movie though, they do portrays a nazi role if they want to but it will serve their narrative. And that is movies, there must be a bad guy and someone has to play that guy. In movies there are bad and good guys, in an actual lore there are sides, and every side has their own right against the enemy.

If I would make the transform system I would not put cute kawaii fennec foxes and penguins or weird stuffed-animal wyvern etc. Of course I wouldn't even make the transformation system like this to begin with.

Transforming to an animal could have been possible, in WoW the Druid class shapeshifts into animals to take their power. Lore wise it can be possible. We transform into a cute chibi doctor cat for no other reason other than anime-style rubbish.

We have to treat Aion on what it is, a Korean mmo that doesn't need to stick to any plot or plan and doesn't have to explain itself. And I wrote MMO only because Aion no longer has the RPG part and that is partially to the races not sticking to the lore in addition to not having a sophisticated gathering and crafting system anymore, houses became obsolete and skins turned into a show of carnival.

~~

In the end I would never show the lore of Aion to anyone trying to explain the game, because the game would contradict everything about the lore.

Edited by Arhangelos
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2 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

The point is that one can put on a red hat, and they have transformed their image. You don't become Marchutan or Kaisinel, you just steal their look. A more apt religious example would be the hundreds of times Jewish actors have dressed up and assumed the role of Nazis or Hitler. I get that Elyos don't worship Asmodian lords, but why would that affect their ability to mimic them?

Transformation is not worship :P

Just comes back to what I said before about unnecessary arbitrary transform restrictions. Should it be just as forbidden for EITHER faction to transform into a Kobold or a Lepharist? Because we can do both

Look at hoe sophisticated the shapeshifting Wow system is base on the races:

When they transform to a cat which is their first shapeshift they do it to run faster, if they are a Night Elf they turn into a Lynx and if they are a Tauren race they shapeshift into a Lion.

When they transform to a bear they are a tank, when they transform to aquatic they do it to gain swimming abilities etc.

When they transform into the flight mode they can become a storm crow or if the character is a Troll race they become a bat (because races matter and lore wise it has to make sense). Shapeshifting also gives them abilities and removes others.

But that is because Blizzard made the Warcraft universe so elaborately and they make the game based on the lore in order for it to have a continuation and make sense. Players choose what side to play based what every race represents from their story to their appearance and abilities or lack thereof.

Edited by Arhangelos
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4 hours ago, Gabrielis-KT said:

For me, the lore was pretty consistent until the fall of Tiamat. 

It's pretty consistent after that if you read all the dialogue and such. There's a few odd confusing translations but it fairly directly flows.

Tiamat is dead because Beritra made a power play > Beritra raises the Drakanspire Depths to take prisoner Ereshkigal's essence and power for himself > he is stopped but her essence is set free  > the Archdaeva makes contact with  the tower of  eternity and  triggers memories of their forgotten life and power > Harvesters revive Ereshkigal > Ereshkigal commits a genocide which costs the Archdaeva's power to prevent > now new players' story is that they're a daeva destroyed in the Tempest but revived by Aion for a new purpose  > Ereshkigal retreats to Lakrum and takes Primeth hostage and makes him forge her a gauntlet strong enough to weild the Genesis Relic - a relic specifically for fighting Baluar  > Beritra (in disguise) helps the player undermine this and stops her from getting the gauntlet > the players kill Ereshkigal after she is damaged by the Genesis Relic  > Beritra takes the gauntlet, and her essence, and vanishes.

 

Then there's an odd pivot with the Stellin story which has been very consistent from 7.0 to present, though it is yet to link directly to the previous thread of Beritra shenanigans (though it is DIRECTLY tied to the Dragon Lords and it seems Fregion himself)

Edited by AriaTheMelodious-DN
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16 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

If you really wanna put in the mental gymnastics; it could be said that Panesterra being referred to in-game as an alternate dimension where realms collided as an explanation for the cross-server element, and that Crimson Katalam too exists as an alternate cross-server dimension accessible only via portal, Apsaranta may very well exist as a similar alternate dimension xserver realm. After all, CKT/CDN's positions on the map are inaccurate too now, but they're there just for convenience of access.

Dunno why they wouldn't just draw another island or make it float above the map or outside Atreia like Panesterra does. It's a 2D asset. It's not like the recent patches haven't had really interesting lore going on, it's just that NC Korea chooses weird places to cut corners >_>

this could be the case.
Also, the Siel Apostle is constantly calling os 'time walkers' during quest lines in Apsaranta. So it may be another dimension/timeline in some sort of way?

16 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

To be clear I am not saying more options would be bad, I am just not sure why a Male/Female transformation crossover "should" be prevented by having all the transforms gender-locked. Again, why would race matter for an Elyos becoming Marchutan? Marchu is an Empyrean Lord who is quite famous and well known. An ability to use an aether-discipline to transform yourself would be pretty heckin' limited if the requirements were "they have to be your gender AND they have to be someone you're politically aligned with or personally well acquainted with." :')

i think this way too. I don't see gender locked transformations as a problem either

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6 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

It's pretty consistent after that if you read all the dialogue and such. There's a few odd confusing translations but it fairly directly flows.

Tiamat is dead because Beritra made a power play > Beritra raises the Drakanspire Depths to take prisoner Ereshkigal's essence and power for himself > he is stopped but her essence is set free  > the Archdaeva makes contact with  the tower of  eternity and  triggers memories of their forgotten life and power > Harvesters revive Ereshkigal > Ereshkigal commits a genocide which costs the Archdaeva's power to prevent > now new players' story is that they're a daeva destroyed in the Tempest but revived by Aion for a new purpose  > Ereshkigal retreats to Lakrum and takes Primeth hostage and makes him forge her a gauntlet strong enough to weild the Genesis Relic - a relic specifically for fighting Baluar  > Beritra (in disguise) helps the player undermine this and stops her from getting the gauntlet > the players kill Ereshkigal after she is damaged by the Genesis Relic  > Beritra takes the gauntlet, and her essence, and vanishes.

 

Then there's an odd pivot with the Stellin story which has been very consistent from 7.0 to present, though it is yet to link directly to the previous thread of Beritra shenanigans (though it is DIRECTLY tied to the Dragon Lords and it seems Fregion himself)

again i have to agree with you. As someone that loves the lore of this game (btw I still recognize theres a lot of flaws and plotholes) the main plot is still consistent.
The worst part of it all, for me, is that the Ereshkigal part in the game is kinda underwhelming for one of the eldest dragons. She would never be fooled by Beritra the way she was. Her death was pretty rushed too, i would love to see more of Ereshkigal and even some direct conflict/battle between dragon lords.

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8 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

It's pretty consistent after that if you read all the dialogue and such. There's a few odd confusing translations but it fairly directly flows.

Tiamat is dead because Beritra made a power play > Beritra raises the Drakanspire Depths to take prisoner Ereshkigal's essence and power for himself > he is stopped but her essence is set free  > the Archdaeva makes contact with  the tower of  eternity and  triggers memories of their forgotten life and power > Harvesters revive Ereshkigal > Ereshkigal commits a genocide which costs the Archdaeva's power to prevent > now new players' story is that they're a daeva destroyed in the Tempest but revived by Aion for a new purpose  > Ereshkigal retreats to Lakrum and takes Primeth hostage and makes him forge her a gauntlet strong enough to weild the Genesis Relic - a relic specifically for fighting Baluar  > Beritra (in disguise) helps the player undermine this and stops her from getting the gauntlet > the players kill Ereshkigal after she is damaged by the Genesis Relic  > Beritra takes the gauntlet, and her essence, and vanishes.

 

Then there's an odd pivot with the Stellin story which has been very consistent from 7.0 to present, though it is yet to link directly to the previous thread of Beritra shenanigans (though it is DIRECTLY tied to the Dragon Lords and it seems Fregion himself)

Pardon, when I said “consistent” I actually meant rather “logical”, “interesting “, but you read it literally like “non-contradictory” (which is also untrue and the topic starter just submitted one if the proofs). 
See, if it’s a fantasy world that doesn’t mean anything can happen, there are still rules of common sense. I don’t recall any fantasy story where 90% of the world can suddenly get deleted and continents sink and rise every few years. In a fragile shell as Atreia looks like, a massive destruction of terrains and continents would inevitably lead to the collapse of all and scattering it all over the space. Remember what a small asteroid (small compared to the scale of disasters in Aion) did to the live on the Earth and dinosaurs. 
1) Ereshkigal destroys virtually 90% of Elysea and Asmodae ( but sparing a few zones because Daevas need still to level up somewhere)

2) Daevas kill Ereshkigal ( even though she is weakened whatsoever)

Sounds hard to believe and is more worth a cheap super-hero comics story.

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4 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

this could be the case.
Also, the Siel Apostle is constantly calling os 'time walkers' during quest lines in Apsaranta. So it may be another dimension/timeline in some sort of way?

In the Episode Quest line,  we used Irnin's  time device repeatedly to go back in time and try to stop Inana's ascension as a Dragon Lord, and we failed every time.

And Siel was the Empyrean Lady of Time, so her Apostle is just fangirling over us UwU

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3 hours ago, Gabrielis-KT said:

Pardon, when I said “consistent” I actually meant rather “logical”, “interesting “, but you read it literally like “non-contradictory” (which is also untrue and the topic starter just submitted one if the proofs). 
See, if it’s a fantasy world that doesn’t mean anything can happen, there are still rules of common sense. I don’t recall any fantasy story where 90% of the world can suddenly get deleted and continents sink and rise every few years. In a fragile shell as Atreia looks like, a massive destruction of terrains and continents would inevitably lead to the collapse of all and scattering it all over the space. Remember what a small asteroid (small compared to the scale of disasters in Aion) did to the live on the Earth and dinosaurs. 
1) Ereshkigal destroys virtually 90% of Elysea and Asmodae ( but sparing a few zones because Daevas need still to level up somewhere)

2) Daevas kill Ereshkigal ( even though she is weakened whatsoever)

Sounds hard to believe and is more worth a cheap super-hero comics story.

I wasn't trying to be adversarial btw I was just giving a rough timeline in case you missed something, since a lot of people do.

Whether you think the story is good or not is subjective and no one can force you to change your mind on that, but I would like to point out that this is a magical world full of magical things which aren't limited by the rules of our reality. If it makes it any easier to swallow, the reason the Atreian shell is still bound together is because that's what Siel's whole sacrifice was for; she gave her life to bind Atreia together and Israphel gave his life*** shoving the Atreians to the two ends of the planet during the explosion using his space-lord powers. This is day 0 lore~ the birth of Elysea and Asmodae.

Your main complaint seems to be that magic is used a lot in the lore when you personally find it uninteresting. A lot of the lore enthusiasts I speak with generally don't, but again that's all subjective~

Though for clarification about Ereshkigal;
1. The zones which were spared were not her doing, the archdaeva's power was sacrificed to shield these zones.
2. The immense power she released in this attack put her in a weakened state hence the retreat to Lakrum. Once already weakened, she was nearly killed completely by the Genesis Relic; having never received the gauntlet that Primeth had been forced to make her.
~The house was already on fire for Ereshkial; the deavas just kept cutting the fire-hose.

6 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

Ereshkigal part in the game is kinda underwhelming for one of the eldest dragons. She would never be fooled by Beritra

I felt this way too for a while, but then I came across some text in game about how Ereshkigal post-revival was increasingly desperate to regain her old strength (possibly fearing Fregion?), and when I think about it that way I realise that despite her wisdom she was probably only fooled because she was a desperate shell of her pre-imprisoned self who was trying to get back ahead by any means. That being said, she has done the most damage to the players both in lore and irl ;-; Watching the Omens of Ice trailer hits so hard when you know that her return means the destruction of Atreia as we knew it

 

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New players coming into the game wouldn't even know Cygnea and Enshar ever existed unless they specifically searched for it or some old veteran player told them, same about Sarpan, Tiamaranta and so on.

Up until 5.8 I would say the lore made sense and there was some degree of consistency. I enjoyed some vagueness and loopholes because it gave freedom to explore and use your imagination to continue building up the world in your mind. After 6.0 came, well, we all know where that went and how it ended up being.

On 10/1/2021 at 11:02 PM, Lapis-DN said:

This geolocation used to be Cygnea and Enshar. Placing Apsuranta in this archipelago/island/desert (??) whitout any cannon explanation is so lazy IMHO.

Because it is lazy. The game is not about building up a world or a story anymore, it's just to give excuses for new mechanics, more upgrades and more cash shop usage.

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17 hours ago, Unbuff-DN said:

In the Episode Quest line,  we used Irnin's  time device repeatedly to go back in time and try to stop Inana's ascension as a Dragon Lord, and we failed every time.

And Siel was the Empyrean Lady of Time, so her Apostle is just fangirling over us UwU

what episode quests i have to do see this part? the lv.85 one?

16 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

 

I felt this way too for a while, but then I came across some text in game about how Ereshkigal post-revival was increasingly desperate to regain her old strength (possibly fearing Fregion?), and when I think about it that way I realise that despite her wisdom she was probably only fooled because she was a desperate shell of her pre-imprisoned self who was trying to get back ahead by any means. That being said, she has done the most damage to the players both in lore and irl ;-; Watching the Omens of Ice trailer hits so hard when you know that her return means the destruction of Atreia as we knew it

 

this is true, but it turns the plot in something very cheap. Beritra is fooling anyone in this game since his debut in 4.x and most of his disguise are pretty ridiculous. For me it turns the storyline kinda redundant in some points too.

fool/convince daevas to do the hard job > win > try to get some OP arctifact > flees because of the daevas > repeat

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7 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

what episode quests i have to do see this part? the lv.85 one?

This quest line went available in 7.9.9, right after the Episode quests from Demaha.

In it, we go look for Inana in Chaotic Valley and other places. Then, in Timeless Terrace we find Irnin and his time device, and a vision about Inana's Ascension.

Soon after we are teleported to new 8.0 instance (only for quest) and we fail to stop Inana (even with the time device and going back in time to change something different every time).

I still wanna know how they are going to link all this to Beritra. The only connection is that the power Inana took for herself belonged to Beritra's dead lover,  Apsu.

If Beritra tricks Inana into something, and take the power for himself, it will be very shitty story writing in my pov., but I'll not be surprised.

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5 hours ago, Unbuff-DN said:

This quest line went available in 7.9.9, right after the Episode quests from Demaha.

In it, we go look for Inana in Chaotic Valley and other places. Then, in Timeless Terrace we find Irnin and his time device, and a vision about Inana's Ascension.

Soon after we are teleported to new 8.0 instance (only for quest) and we fail to stop Inana (even with the time device and going back in time to change something different every time).

I still wanna know how they are going to link all this to Beritra. The only connection is that the power Inana took for herself belonged to Beritra's dead lover,  Apsu.

If Beritra tricks Inana into something, and take the power for himself, it will be very shitty story writing in my pov., but I'll not be surprised.

maybe Beritra wants to ressurrect Apsu in some sort of way since he have the power of one of the strongest relics: The Genesis

 

i still think all Beritra storyline is kinda poor. He is always looking for something to enslave or some relic to catch

so lazy

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On 10/4/2021 at 3:48 PM, Lapis-DN said:

Fool/convince daevas to do the hard job > win > try to get some OP arctifact > flees because of the daevas > repeat

Regardless of my opinions of the Ereshkigal story, to say I am getting tired of Beritra is an understatement, and I am hoping at least it will build to something big and climactic. We've never seen two dragon lords on the screen at the same time, what if Fregion or Melstlemtaeda confront Beritra? That's got potential.

Or:

22 hours ago, Unbuff-DN said:

I still wanna know how they are going to link all this to Beritra. The only connection is that the power Inana took for herself belonged to Beritra's dead lover,  Apsu.

Maybe the reason we're failing to stop Inanna's ascension is because she'll ultimately destroy Beritra? It would be nice to see him try and manipulate her only to have it blow up in his face and be his ultimate undoing

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9 hours ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

Maybe the reason we're failing to stop Inanna's ascension is because she'll ultimately destroy Beritra? It would be nice to see him try and manipulate her only to have it blow up in his face and be his ultimate undoing

Now that would be a well deserved end for him, considering all he did to Ereshkigal, and in Mesopotamian Mythology, Ereshkigal is Inana's older sister or something.

Also, there's  poem named "Inana's descent to the nether world" that kind of goes well with her ascension to a Dragon Lord:

 

From the great heaven she set her mind on the great below.

From the great heaven the goddess set her mind on the great below.

From the great heaven Inana set her mind on the great below.

My mistress abandoned heaven, abandoned earth, and descended to the underworld.

Inana abandoned heaven, abandoned earth, and descended to the underworld.

 

She abandoned Elyos, Asmodians, and went full dark QwQ.

Or maybe I'm really bad at understanding the meaning of things lol.

 

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