Israphel is dying - are there any ways to save it?

[Bonehunter]

1 hour ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

All in all p2w is subjective based off the agenda of the player who is using the term

clearly someone who understood.

Brain teaser
There are three people:
One of them has a job, maybe even a family
the second has nothing to do but can play all day.
That means, one person has the money, the other the time.
The third one doesn't want anything from up there and blames p2w!
The first and second person are acceptable to me!
Both can achieve anything, one with the time invested, the other with the money from his work.

(the third) just get into other games and then try to change them according to his wishes.

Why are so many doing this here?

[Arhangelos]

59 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

clearly someone who understood.

Brain teaser
There are three people:
One of them has a job, maybe even a family
the second has nothing to do but can play all day.
That means, one person has the money, the other the time.
The third one doesn't want anything from up there and blames p2w!
The first and second person are acceptable to me!
Both can achieve anything, one with the time invested, the other with the money from his work.

(the third) just get into other games and then try to change them according to his wishes.

Why are so many doing this here?

So the person who buys the progress is called a p2w person, this is very simple.

There is another type of players, those that have the money but also dedicate a lot of their free time on the game and are both playing many hours and buying their progress.

P2W explains these situations. It is not a made up term for excuses, it is exactly the list of things you wrote.

[Lurona]

What @Stormwing and @Arhangelos have written pretty much explains why Aion is dead, the others are gaslighting and providing excuses trying to shitpost the conversation to a different topic every post.

If people do not like the game they will quit, and this is what happened to Aion.

[Titan]

So forced pvp and twinks are good and p2w is a made up term, I have read it all today!

Meanwhile Aion is in prolonged decay.

On 11/11/2021 at 4:39 PM, Stormwing said:

People keep saying "if you dont like it, quit" yet they do not seem to realise that this is exactly what thousands have already done and more are doing. 

...and when people quit the same people have a ton of excuses like "you can't compete, toughen up, gitgut, Aion wasn't for you" etc.

[Nalariel]

If you wanna take a look at the future it's right here.
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/124060/south-korean-gaming-studio-ncsoft-stock-price-launch-nft-games-2022

NCsoft will do blockchain games (play NC games and get cryptocurrencies like bitcoin). They don't want to give up p2w but they want people to stay so play to earn is new method.

It's going to be messy people will now playing the game for money maybe only 5% out of 100% will make actual profit. Early players will be the one who get the best prize while the rest will be fools (I don't know how the game works but I believed you have to actually invest initial real money for play the game)

Expecting bots ,hacks ,cheaters ,scams will be norms in those games when the games produce money for players every nasty thing that human can do will show up.

After all it's blockchain (doesn't it say something to you?)

[Bonehunter]

2 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

There is another type of players, those that have the money but also dedicate a lot of their free time on the game and are both playing many hours and buying their progress.

And you mean those who put money into it and have time to play must be punished?
Doesn't make sense (from a purely economic point of view)
NC is a company (imagine it was yours)
Would you scare away the good hot players who generate the population and generate money?
Be honest.
No, you would try to keep both alive just like NC is doing in order to earn something.

If a product costs nothing (as with so many so caled "f2p" games) then you are the product!
You can already see it in retail.
in the classic it is manageable
and everything you get in the shop (except skins) can be worked out in the game yourself! Just everything .....

Do you also go to the restaurant and complain until the cook changes all the recipe in your favor?
Of course they don't & they throw you out on edge beforehand! and rightly so!

[Arhangelos]

31 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

And you mean those who put money into it and have time to play must be punished?
Doesn't make sense (from a purely economic point of view)

...aaah, I am not sure why this is going on. P2W is NOT a made up term, it explains a situation.

People who dislike p2w quit a game that has insane p2w tactics. The game then slowly dies and p2w people also quit because the game became a deserted one.

...the end!

31 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

Do you also go to the restaurant and complain until the cook changes all the recipe in your favor?

Of course they don't & they throw you out on edge beforehand! and rightly so!

...if I went to a place that it advertised as a restaurant and served me sh!t with a hefty price tag, I wouldn't ask them to change anything and I wouldn't wait for them to throw me out, I'd simply egg-nog myself out of there and never go there again.... which is EXACTLY what people that quit Aion did.

[Bonehunter]

On 11/11/2021 at 3:02 PM, 66sB2F50 said:

but before I get there I'll stop posting here !

As I said up here:
I now see the point where I should stop.
I can write here for hours now, but some just have their own point of view and don't recognize the other.
I just have one last piece of advice.
Make suggestions and do not discuss what is and is not p2w!
But it should also be said: If we talk badly in the  forum about Aion classic, we won't get any new players!
If the music doesn't change here, then NC can't change anything.
Then it doesn't matter whether someone sees a p2w or not, there is no longer a classic or shop that someone can get upset about.

[Arhangelos]

21 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

As I said up here:
I now see the point where I should stop.
I can write here for hours now, but some just have their own point of view and don't recognize the other.

• HealingSquid said "p2w is a made up term used by people who need a reason to complain"
• You then said "clearly someone who understoodd"
• And then I explained what p2w is and it is not a made up term but a real thing that directly affected the game in the most negative way
• You then  asked me "do we punish p2w people" which indirectly accepts that p2w is not a made up term but a real thing...

...you are constantly shifting the subject. Shifting the subject won't revive Aion, it won't make people enjoy open world forced pvp if they didnt' enjoy it already, it won't make p2w acceptable by the mass of people who do not do it and nobody is going to change their mind about the current status of the game.

You are trying to gaslight us with constantly changing the subject.

It already starts looking like shitposting the subject into all kinds of directions.

[Stormwing]

[Bonehunter]

Quote

You then  asked me "do we punish p2w people" which indirectly accepts that p2w is not a made up term but a real thing...

2 hours ago, 66sB2F50 said:

And you mean those who put money into it and have time to play must be punished?

Put money into is not p2w!

This is just one example of who is twisting whose statements here.

[Azachi-KT]

i'm glad aion is dead/dying, just proves that even if you come back to the game a second time thinking gm's and devs would do their job and learn from their past mistakes but drop the ball big time shows they don't care at all about the game, it's waaaaaaay too late for them as the damage has already been done, i decided to take a peek after a month of being away and to my dismay the game is worse off than it is before which i didnt think was possible lol, only way this game has a chance of making it maybe, just maybe is if Lvl 55 comes out with gelk/ing in the next few months which i highly doubt it will since the team can't even make simple hp changes for sieges but gotta contact the korean dev team

 

been playing other closed betas in the mean time and damn they are sweet, i'd love to come back to aion but i know for damn sure that when these games get released first quarter 2022 and gelk/ing isn't out, i'll never come back to aion because those games were just too fun and the dev's actually paid attention to player feedback

 

i'm sure there are also others sitting on the fence wanting to come back but they too i'm sure have been spending time in other games or closed betas and know that the chance of them coming back to Aion is nil, this is what happens when you have a loyal customer base but end up shitting on them

 

i can already see the toxic comments to follow such as "i hope you never come back anyways/go play your game etc etc", that's the type of attitude that has developed in aion, i remember when lfg and the community used to be respectful but now it's an entire beast of its own

 

hackers/ap traders thrive in this game, devs/gm's take an eternity to do simple things that should have been done long time ago like a server merge, good luck with that as that will only last for so long before other better mmo's coming out, it's only a downwards spiral from here and if you don't believe me the population speaks for itself

[Bonehunter]

1 hour ago, Azachi-KT said:

i'll never come back to aion because those games were just too fun and the dev's actually paid attention to player feedback

I can understand that you don't want to come back anymore.wish it could have been different.

 But in my opinion, so many have come to the classic with even more expectations.
It was to be expected that when the first hype is over there will be fewer (basic players).
Clearly the distribution of the players on the servers at the start was badly organized, which is why the IS server is almost empty.
Whether now (some might say that it is too late) the merge will bring anything better that will show up in the future .

1 hour ago, Azachi-KT said:

i'm glad aion is dead/dying, just proves that even if you come back to the game a second time thinking gm's and devs would do their job and learn from their past mistakes but drop the ball big time shows they don't care at all about the game, it's waaaaaaay too late for them as the damage has already been done, i decided to take a peek after a month of being away and to my dismay the game is worse off than it is before which i didnt think was possible

malicious joy is of no usefull to anyone.
Nor am I saying I hope the games will be sh*t next year ...
But I think that the disappointment speaks out of you.

1 hour ago, Azachi-KT said:

only way this game has a chance of making it maybe, just maybe is if Lvl 55 comes out with gelk/ing in the next few months which i highly doubt it will since the team can't even make simple hp changes for sieges but gotta contact the korean dev team

But it has always been the case that such changes have to be requested from the software writer.
Was never different & will never be different.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Either you believe the storytellers here or you believe someone who is playing the game with fewer players right now.

In the end, it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong.
The only important thing for the users here in the forum is what they believe themselves (even if they are wrong).
I don't fight (anymore) against these preconceived notions.

it just doesn't make any sense anymore because
you already talked the game dead.

 

[Adla]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:33 AM, Lurona said:

What @Stormwing and @Arhangelos have written pretty much explains why Aion is dead, the others are gaslighting and providing excuses trying to shitpost the conversation to a different topic every post.

If people do not like the game they will quit, and this is what happened to Aion.

I don't think anyone is sh*tposting, or trying to gaslight anyone, that seems like a dramatic take. I think having an opposing opinion from those two shouldn't be thrown aside and considered as such, that's pretty ignorant and childish IMO.

A lot of people play Aion for its core, which is what those two don't seem to enjoy, and I don't walk into Apex Legends saying "man I wish people weren't shooting me". It's a valid argument...

You know why people quit Aion originally, on retail?

I said it once, I'll say it again, it started going downhill as soon as they added Fast Track. 

Pay2W, of course, had a huge hand in it over the years following and I'll never deny that. I don't like that aspect either myself... but the constant pandering to people who didn't enjoy what Aion originally was is where ncsoft started making all kinds of mistakes, alongside their own gross greed.

Maybe we all have different memories of original/launch up into 2.0, but as someone who took a long time to level and experienced twinks on the receiving end, and then became one, and then played at level cap for years... Aion's direction was lost from what it originally once was. 

People quitting because of "twinks" now... I barely hear a peep about that in the discord/in game. No, people left in droves because of mismanagement. That's very clear in the community that I am VERY MUCH an active part of in our ACN discord and in LFG and have friends on both factions..

[Adla]

Let me just pull this from another thread here on the forums:


"

Posted 1 hour ago

  3 hours ago, UnforgivingOG said:

You dont start over in a merge. You just have more people on the server. I think it is to late now, they already killed the game. Drop rate is to high, PVP is nurfed, free scrolls and coin gear ruined the economy, XP rate is to high, this is what they did on retail and it killed the pop. Repeat the process and got the same result. 

The merge would have been great about 3 months ago when IS was starting to dip below 10% capacity (Siel is just above 10% now as comparison). 
The reasons provided by you seem to opposite to what every person I have talked to have mentioned why they quit. I did not hear once the drop rate being too high (now people complain it is the opposite), "free" scrolls is very minor unless you pay, coin gear is also pay, and XP rate is too low for many. 

The arguments I hear why people quit revolve around 3 key points:

1.) Too much Pay-to-Win whaling at the start of the game via Candy sales or Deava Pass essentially price gouging, yet offers the nice title and other benefits (you kind of eluded to this with coins/scrolls).

2.) Extreme lack of oversight or control over their own game. Rampant hacking, AP trading, cheating has turned off so many. Even last night in chat I heard comments about this in lfg. I remember being in a group of 6 (including chanter and we all had full buffs) and having a certain SM Asmodian officer by himself dead to rights, but then when we chased him and starting landing dots he literally teled away. I am the only one of those six who didn't quit and that is the same Asmo SM that was being complained about last night for cheating (I didn't start the conversation nor contribute to the comments).

3.) Poor rollout of events or botched changes/bans. Biggest example was the SR bans, events broken/worthless rewards, sieges now unwinnable against Balaur, ect. ect. Even little events like the flight buff early on was quickly broken. The only events that seemed to have appropriate rewards and were not messed up were the 100 day celebration (daily crowns) and the XP events.

4.) Slow rollout of content or delayed content causing people to be board. Patch 1.7 is so minor I would be shocked if anybody comes back for that. Aion Classic just doesn't have a ton of content as the original Aion was launched in North America on September 22, 2009 and 2.0 was released on September 7, 2010, less than a year later."

[Locke]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:31 AM, 66sB2F50 said:

Brain teaser
There are three people:
One of them has a job, maybe even a family
the second has nothing to do but can play all day.
The third one doesn't want anything from up there and blames p2w!

Hi, I'm the player you left out of your chart. I'm loaded, I can play all day, and I still hate P2W.

[19s19C5EB]

5 hours ago, Locke said:

Hi, I'm the player you left out of your chart. I'm loaded, I can play all day, and I still hate P2W.

Most players still playing, yes. The other quadrants have realized this game as currently managed is not worth their time nor money and have quit.

[Lurona]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:34 PM, Adla said:

I don't think anyone is sh*tposting, or trying to gaslight anyone, that seems like a dramatic take. I think having an opposing opinion from those two shouldn't be thrown aside and considered as such, that's pretty ignorant and childish IMO.

When you are trying to persuade us that Aion died because of "xx is the problem" when most players say "zz is the problem" then that is bs. So many people try to prove to us that Aion Classic is good, yet it dies, that is gaslighting with irrelevant things. Nobody asked people if they still enjoy Aion Classic of course there are those who still like it. Most players quit and they have already said why they quit. If you haven't quit already or about to quit, you do not get to say why others quit, they were here and they said the reasons.

On 11/15/2021 at 6:34 PM, Adla said:

You know why people quit Aion originally, on retail?
I said it once, I'll say it again, it started going downhill as soon as they added Fast Track. 

WHAT? HAHAHA I swear to god many of my friends came back when FT was implemented because they thought it was a pve-only part of aion. They thought they could exist there for ever not caring for pvp anymore. Many accepted it was just for leveling and no end game of course stil better than being ganged by twinks. Why would FT kill the game? FT was the exact same Aion minus twink pvp! Twinks were what... 5%~10% of the population? If yes then the rest 90%~95% didn't enjoy low level pvp. FT was SO successful pretty much everyone was there while they leveled.

On 11/15/2021 at 6:34 PM, Adla said:

People quitting because of "twinks" now... I barely hear a peep about that in the discord/in game. 

Nobody would leave because of twinks now, many people reached end game in the first 2~3 weeks because everyone is a veteran and they know how to be faster and there is the p2w aspect now so those with money could buy off their potions and better gear and manastones from broker and be even faster.

But we are shitposting this "IS is dying" into a new level now. We end up talking about why Classic dies not why IS died. IS is merging with Siel this thread should be closed.

[Bonehunter]

13 hours ago, Locke said:

Hi, I'm the player you left out of your chart. I'm loaded, I can play all day, and I still hate P2W.

basic thinking mistake....

But let me quote myself : 

On 11/13/2021 at 1:31 PM, 66sB2F50 said:

The third one doesn't want anything from up there and blames p2w!

Oh you`r the third ?  

___________________________________________________________________________________

 Yes you can hate it (like me) only as already shown is a so-called p2w!

(and yes that is a matter of opinion)

But please be sure !: P2W ...which(until now) I do not see in classic ...

If I see real P2w (like in retail) I will complain here too!
& Don't worry, I'm great at it!

the second mistake I find here is: 

Do not wanting and blame p2w vs. hate p2w ...

these are two different things!
Or do you have a different opinion?

 

[Lurona]

23 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

 Yes you can hate it (like me) only as already shown is a so-called p2w!

(and yes that is a matter of opinion)

But please be sure !: P2W ...which(until now) I do not see in classic ...

If I see real P2w (like in retail) I will complain here too!
& Don't worry, I'm great at it!

the second mistake I find here is: 

Do not wanting and blame p2w vs. hate p2w ...

these are two different things!
Or do you have a different opinion?

 

What is the point of this? You do not see p2w but 90% of the people saw it, they see it and feel it and even call it extreme p2w (who cares) according to them and most people quit (partially) because of it.

I can see you in future alone in Classic arguing with your own self that everything is fine because you still don't see the problem while everyone already left.

Quote

"Do not wanting and blame p2w vs. hate p2w ... these are two different things!"

So? What is even the point of this? If 90% of the player base quit because of p2w does it matter?

[Bonehunter]

18 minutes ago, Lurona said:

You do not see p2w but 90% of the people saw it, they see it and feel it and even call it extreme p2w (who cares) according to them and most people quit (partially) because of it.

If 90% see it then am I one in 10 players?
Unless you think I'm only one of the 10% who don't see it that way. (Then write it exactly as it is meant)

And yes !
P2W is a matter of opinion!

Example:
If I can buy the endgame armor (pvp)already enchanted directly in the shop (as already seen elsewhere) or something that I can buy in the shop and is not available in the game but helps me to the extent that others never catch up 

... yes only then will I call it p2w.

If I buy something (which I can earn myself ingame in a reasonable amount of time)

then I don't call it p2w.

The players who have already left may see it differently and that's the difference of opinions here!

[Lurona]

22 minutes ago, 66sB2F50 said:

If 90% see it then am I one in 10 players?
Unless you think I'm only one of the 10% who don't see it that way. (Then write it exactly as it is meant)

And yes !
P2W is a matter of opinion!

Example:
If I can buy the endgame armor (pvp)already enchanted directly in the shop (as already seen elsewhere) or something that I can buy in the shop and is not available in the game but helps me to the extent that others never catch up 

... yes only then will I call it p2w.

If I buy something (which I can earn myself ingame in a reasonable amount of time)

then I don't call it p2w.

The players who have already left may see it differently and that's the difference of opinions here!

If one person has to go essencetapping and aethertapping and morphing and crafting all just to get potions... while you can simply buy potions, scrolls, armor and go straight to pvp that is a problematic p2w by most people.

Who wins?  The guy who spent his whole day trying to craft the basics and ending up still having little to nothing or the guy who is already geared and has enjoyed everything end game and is ready to buy even more when needed?

When there is a good manastone and you can't afford it, he already bought that. If you manage to earn 1 million, he already purchased 100 million. When there is a good drop someone sells it on broker, a p2w person will enjoy that item because he has infinite money, money you should have had over him because you did the part of farming and crafting while he didn't.

But he surpassed you in every possible way, he has your gathers, your crafts, your loot and he still has more kinah than you. If you do not have anything to sell him, he will buy it from someone else. If you think you made profit by selling your loot to him and making 1m he will go and buy 100m more. And if you think you have him because you are the gatherer... the bots can do it better and more efficient than you. So you aren't even the farmer anymore while he can buy everything at better prices now.

That breaks the whole aspect of the MMORPG which is to play the game socially and earn the fruits of your hard labor.

The guy who bought the enchanted armor ready on broker has done already 100 hours of pvp because he didn't have to gather like you did. He is more geared, richer and knows how to pvp better than you.

IF that is not bad p2w I do not know what is!

(Is the above an opinion or just a fact?)

[Bonehunter]

1 hour ago, Lurona said:

IF that is not bad p2w I do not know what is!

But I understand what you mean, with the only disagreement that  Aion classic (not like retail)

is a marathon & not a sprint .

well, too many were pissed off by such useless "P2W" statements ...
And these players believed everything about the oh-so-presumptive p2w ...
AION Classic was not advertised differently by NC West than it already started in Korea ... or did they ???

Why are so many crying about the shop?

& who has more of it?

The one who reaches everything by himself and proves himself in the game or this one who just has to buy everything over and over again?
I laugh out loud and  feel sorry for those who buy everything at the beginning and later stand there as "would like to be heroes" and cannot do anything without the shop.
I have respect from those who can achieve everything even without the battle pass .(like me).. such as making their own roles as well as buff-food and or armor, accessories and weapons.

Do not forget : Without collecting you cannot reach a DP S-run !

In the Abbys today I was killed several times in the game by those who think they should kill my low character ....
I don’t care (costs me 1 Kinah/death) and my loss of Abby’s points is only recovered with 1 max. 2 fortress NPCs if not even overtaken .... what have I lost?
nothing^^

[Arhangelos]

11 hours ago, 66sB2F50 said:

what have I lost?

nothing^^

...the whole point is that the vast majority of people see it differently.

If you are the one who accepts being the punch bag because the game allows for people to pay for their victory then you are a tiny minority. When you try hard to do something and you are always last, or fail, or get stomped, you feel something is wrong. Maybe not you, but the player base does.

Nobody will give you a medal for being legit and/or no p2w and you did it all the hard way. Nobody is going to acknowledge you for that.

Nobody plays the game to be a walking dummy for the rich kid. Maybe 1 or 2 people do not mind it, but most people do mind it. A game is supposed to be enjoyed and if there is a social aspect people try to be the best. There are so many games that are engaging and rewarding and give the person who plays it some good times so there is also the comparison. Aion is not life, it is a game and it sucks on so many ways predominantly because of the publisher's decisions.

I have nothing against you, I admire you for being so stubborn in the most obnoxious model so far (p2w + subscription + 1h free to bot).

What can we do to save it -> nothing. Only the publisher could and he made the worst decision of them all.

~~

The worst part is that p2w people or those that do not mind it, try hard to persuade those who speak against p2w, that it is not a big issue and they should keep playing so the game doesn't die. It's not going to happen.

[Stormwing]

@Arhangelos:
There are points the community could change. Like being less toxic; acting less greedy; do less grieving. However, from what I learnt in this topic that is how the game is supposed to be played.

I am not going to join the p2w disussion, but I want to point out that the reasons why retail failed are not the necessarily the reasons why classic fails. It seems to get confused alot.