Israphel is dying - are there any ways to save it?

[Arhangelos]

3 hours ago, Stormwing said:

@Arhangelos:
There are points the community could change. Like being less toxic; acting less greedy; do less grieving. However, from what I learnt in this topic that is how the game is supposed to be played.

I am not going to join the p2w disussion, but I want to point out that the reasons why retail failed are not the necessarily the reasons why classic fails. It seems to get confused alot.

I agree but also everything wrong about people's behavior is amplified by the injustices or the models the company decides to put out.

[Adla]

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When you are trying to persuade us that Aion died because of "xx is the problem" when most players say "zz is the problem" then that is bs. So many people try to prove to us that Aion Classic is good, yet it dies, that is gaslighting with irrelevant things. Nobody asked people if they still enjoy Aion Classic of course there are those who still like it. Most players quit and they have already said why they quit. If you haven't quit already or about to quit, you do not get to say why others quit, they were here and they said the reasons.

It's not irrelevant at all, it's a different opinion and one that's factual. If you wanted to really be objective, you could say it was both, which I'll even admit to that probably being the case. We should think larger, and simply admit that ALL of these things had a hgue hand in the playerbase dying off, especially because the playerbase is diverse in players and therefor reasons why they quit. Just like you know people who quit for xyz reason, I know people that quit for zyx reason. Furthermore, Aion Classic COULD be good, and some people do fully enjoy it, I mean I actually enjoy it a lot, but just because someone thinks it's good doesn't mean they're trying to gaslight anyone... that's just being dramatic man, and hyperbolizing the issue.

Furthermore, where do you get off on assuming that a few posts on the forums = "most people", when clearly we both have had our own personal experiences in the community (a communtity that I've always paid attention to and been a large part of for years and years midn you)? I'd love your sourcing on using such a flippant phrase.

I don't know what sense you're trying to make in the second half of your quoted statement, it holds no ground and seems like a half-formed thought... Just because I haven't quit doesn't mean I don't get to say why other people have quit, what kind of nonsense is that?

 

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WHAT? HAHAHA I swear to god many of my friends came back when FT was implemented because they thought it was a pve-only part of aion. They thought they could exist there for ever not caring for pvp anymore. Many accepted it was just for leveling and no end game of course stil better than being ganged by twinks. Why would FT kill the game? FT was the exact same Aion minus twink pvp! Twinks were what... 5%~10% of the population? If yes then the rest 90%~95% didn't enjoy low level pvp. FT was SO successful pretty much everyone was there while they leveled.

And I know a lot of people who did quit shortly after FT, and that the shape of Aion changed away from what they liked about it, and that rifting, which was a huge component, died completely. This again is under the assumption that everyone who rifted was some griefing clown picking on people which is just fallacy, and an ignorant statement.

What FT did do was mark the beginning of Aion being shaped into something a lot of people that I knew didn't like; catering towards people who didn't like or care about pvp, which is not why a lot of people liked Aion to begin with... Thank god for Gelk/Ingg and future mutual maps, otherwise you PvE-only orientated people would have killed this game entirely. The pve in Aion isn't even good! (yes, I get that's preference), but it's honestly some of the poorest pve in any mmo I've ever played... If it had gone the route some of you wanted it would be a dead zone of zzzzzz. OWPvP and rifting made Aion exciting for a lot of people. Sorry you picked the wrong game and apparently didn't do any research into what it was about before you jumped into it.

Beta was filled with people rifting constantly. That was one of the main draws for that crowd. So again, I'll admit you know people that quit for some reasons, but I know people that quit for other reasons too. We should both be able to reach mutual ground on that.

 

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Nobody would leave because of twinks now, many people reached end game in the first 2~3 weeks because everyone is a veteran and they know how to be faster and there is the p2w aspect now so those with money could buy off their potions and better gear and manastones from broker and be even faster.

But we are shitposting this "IS is dying" into a new level now. We end up talking about why Classic dies not why IS died. IS is merging with Siel this thread should be closed.

Maybe IS is totally dead but SL still has levelers, alts, all kinds of people coming and going. No one cries about twinks, and our population is larger, that should tell you something immediately.

Twinks and rifting are not why Aion Classic is dying, or likely even why IS is dying:

Poor Marketing
Poor Management
Immediate Pay2W aspects
Hackers/AP Trading

Those are the core components as to why people quit. I'm not trying to say no one quit because of rifting but making that the centre of your argument is pretty wild IMO, especially considering the above were way more impactful... You do seem like a crier though, and I remember that kind of playerbase very much from retail and how insignificant they actually were.

Also your attitude sucks.

[Arhangelos]

21 minutes ago, Adla said:

Furthermore, where do you get off on assuming that a few posts on the forums = "most people",

I assume that person meant "most people" is the 90% of the player base that quit silently without making any posts.

21 minutes ago, Adla said:

And I know a lot of people who did quit shortly after FT, and that the shape of Aion changed away from what they liked about it, and that rifting, which was a huge component, died completely. This again is under the assumption that everyone who rifted was some griefing clown picking on people which is just fallacy, and an ignorant statement.

So let me get this straight, twinks wanted to fight other twinks and high levels only, and NOT grief levelers.
Well FTS was only for levelers (those people you apparently didn't want to grief remember?), twinks and high levels were still doing their thing if they wanted to.

If anyone quit because of FTS then it means FTS took away their pray, which was the un-geared levelers that never wanted to participate in pvp vs over-geared twinks. I am still shocked anyone still talks about FTS killing rifting and twinks while they claim twinks never wanted the easy pray.

What FTS proved is that the vast majority of players didn't want low level pvp because that map was alive and the main maps empty.

[Adla]

34 minutes ago, Arhangelos said:

I assume that person meant "most people" is the 90% of the player base that quit silently without making any posts.

So let me get this straight, twinks wanted to fight other twinks and high levels only, and NOT grief levelers.
Well FTS was only for levelers (those people you apparently didn't want to grief remember?), twinks and high levels were still doing their thing if they wanted to.

If anyone quit because of FTS then it means FTS took away their pray, which was the un-geared levelers that never wanted to participate in pvp vs over-geared twinks. I am still shocked anyone still talks about FTS killing rifting and twinks while they claim twinks never wanted the easy pray.

What FTS proved is that the vast majority of players didn't want low level pvp because that map was alive and the main maps empty.

 

 

That's not how I phrased it, let's be extremely careful about how we choose to perceive what's been said. You don't take this and turn it around vapidly in your favour; what I said and intended to suggest was that not ALL twinks, or even a vast some of them, only twink to grief lowbies. That was clear, and I'd appreciate if you made it clear that you understood that.

You do have a good point about the FT though, and I concede to that. However I do still maintain my position that the FT server had a negative effect in portraying the game changing. Sometimes those people were used as crossfire, or a means to bring those people out though. We should also define what griefing is, and I don't believe it's killing a few lowbies here and there in order to do so. 

What my main point is with the FT is it showed a lot of people who liked Aion for what it was, a ruthless PvP orientated game, that it was no longer that. As well, the FT server wasn't created solely to eliminate twinking, as much as it was to facilitate advantages to leveling, which at the time was still extremely difficult/grindy to do. How you can choose to omit that is beyond me.

That, and as a former lowbie myself, where I also have a level 36 I'm leveling that is NOT a twink, I do enjoy rifting over and fighting who I find, which is a really fair fight. That effects my fun on that toon as I level it too, because I enjoy PvP greatly, and there are certainly other people who enjoy the feeling of looking over their shoulder constantly, which was something a lot of people liked about Aion.

Now that's taken away from low level maps, and people have to go fight in the abyss... who the hell wants to fight in the abyss anyway? let alone at a low level...

 

IE: Me and my friends were twinks for a long time in retail; we hit 40, stayed at 40 and basically lived in Heiron. We didn't kill pinks, we hardly touched people who were obviously questing, but we did look for other twinks we knew were twinks, and level 50's - 55's who would often come out after us, usually in groups, and had great fun/pvp against them and other known members of the twink community. It's truth that we in fact rarely ever griefed or harassed lowbies, although I understand other people did.

Our legions were even named:

<Hide Yo Pinks Call Yo Purps>
<Your Crucible Gear Sucks>

 

Meaning we were often focused on level 50 (including before 55 cap)- 55's, and as mentioned other twinks, who were plentiful on their side too.

 

And again, not all twinks want "easy prey", you shouldn't hyperbolize it like that, it's a poor debate tactic, to add to, I do understand that you and other people like you gained from the FT, and above all I want Aion to be enjoyed by all and to grow and to be populated, and I am not trying to say you guys don't have valid or good points, so much as the structure and means in which you're all presenting your opinions as the defacto, one sided and be all comment, when there are clearly two valid sides to this. 

 

But it was something a lot of people had a lot of fun doing, at the time perhaps hundreds given the server sizes back then. It's something to consider, that I don't think any of you rightfully have, and to me that seems very ignorant and omissive. Especially with the way you've been presenting your opinions on the matter.


But that aside, I'm more concerned about people like Lor who seem to think that this is the primary reason people quit...................

[Bonehunter]

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

...the whole point is that the vast majority of people see it differently.

okay is so acceptable to me

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

If you are the one who accepts being the punch bag because the game allows for people to pay for their victory then you are a tiny minority. When you try hard to do something and you are always last, or fail, or get stomped, you feel something is wrong. Maybe not you, but the player base does.

okay is so acceptable to me

except for the part that I only "being the punch bag " accept up to a certain moment

(level or certain time).

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

Nobody will give you a medal for being legit and/or no p2w and you did it all the hard way. Nobody is going to acknowledge you for that.

I do this for my own inner peace.

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

Nobody plays the game to be a walking dummy for the rich kid. Maybe 1 or 2 people do not mind it, but most people do mind it. A game is supposed to be enjoyed and if there is a social aspect people try to be the best. There are so many games that are engaging and rewarding and give the person who plays it some good times so there is also the comparison. Aion is not life, it is a game and it sucks on so many ways predominantly because of the publisher's decisions.

that's exactly why I like classic more than retail
that's exactly why I'm here and love it
Retail does not reward as well as the classic version does (in a reasonable time)
i can be a lot more than just a bot in retail who has to play 24/7/365/y  in order to receive anything at all, and p2w really predominates there.

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

I have nothing against you, I admire you for being so stubborn in the most obnoxious model so far (p2w + subscription + 1h free to bot).

is ok except for the "1h free to bot"
I see an opportunity for many players to look at the game and its mechanics and that before they have to take the real money in their hands ... so to speak, to get a taste of it

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

The worst part is that p2w people or those that do not mind it, try hard to persuade those who speak against p2w, that it is not a big issue and they should keep playing so the game doesn't die. It's not going to happen.

unfortunately we do not agree on this point of view.
That doesn't mean that I want to convince people (I like to explain my point of view, that's all)
I don't want to abuse anyone who screams "p2W"
but I was able to experience exactly the same thing in 2009 as many were gone and cursed.
but even then I didn't see a p2w in the shop until patch 4.7 ...from my perspectiv

By the way: 

I would like to apologize if I had a toxic or caustic effect in my previous posts ...

[Nalariel]

I agree mostly with @Arhangelos recent posts but I can't follow all posts it's too much to read sorry 

I would like to address one thing about leveling slow that even no one give you any credit for that but you actually learned how to play the class and know your class skills that's the biggest reward for leveling slow. This is something that can't be brought unfortunately p2w tainted your effort knowing your class.

For anyone who like p2w ,remember this any games that you can p2w with open world pvp will die like this one. You can p2w as much as you want but all your investments will end up in tragedy. There's no fun in any games where your ability can be brought super powers yeah but it's just there without any meaning value. Next and next p2w games will end up like this.

[Arhangelos]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:03 PM, Adla said:

What my main point is with the FT is it showed a lot of people who liked Aion for what it was, a ruthless PvP orientated game, that it was no longer that

IE: Me and my friends were twinks for a long time in retail; we hit 40, stayed at 40 and basically lived in Heiron. We didn't kill pinks, we hardly touched people who were obviously questing, but we did look for other twinks we knew were twinks, and level 50's - 55's who would often come out after us, usually in groups, and had great fun/pvp against them and other known members of the twink community. It's truth that we in fact rarely ever griefed or harassed lowbies, although I understand other people did.

But it was something a lot of people had a lot of fun doing, at the time perhaps hundreds given the server sizes back then. It's something to consider, that I don't think any of you rightfully have, and to me that seems very ignorant and omissive. Especially with the way you've been presenting your opinions on the matter.

 

But that aside, I'm more concerned about people like Lor who seem to think that this is the primary reason people quit...................

Generilizing about the twinks? No, you generalize about the FTS and how it affected twinking and rifting. IF FTS made rifting die it means one thing... people disliked rifting because they opted out.

If hundreds of people enjoyed rifting, then rifting should have never died. The only people absent from the normal servers were the easy pray you never wanted to attack. FTS literally could have made the twinks point valid, it should come with the quote:

"Finally... twinks can do their thing without being accused of griefing while they enjoy killing whoever they see on main maps now because whoever is there already accepts rifting and open world pvp.

Lowbies on the other hand can go safely to level up and enjoy their pace in a pve only server that has all the servers combined because it is an integrated server."

~~

Twink griefing wasn't about killing pinkies, it was about killing people within your levels while they are undergeared and pveing/questing at the moment.

[Arhangelos]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:03 PM, Adla said:

But it was something a lot of people had a lot of fun doing, at the time perhaps hundreds given the server sizes back then. It's something to consider, that I don't think any of you rightfully have, and to me that seems very ignorant and omissive. Especially with the way you've been presenting your opinions on the matter.

Before they made the FTS server they implemented specific days where you had an insane passive buff in your faction's leveling maps and enemies could barely scratch you. And that was to address the twinking problem.

The buff could destroy rifting for those that enjoyed it, because you cannot have one map to facilitate everyone. If someone wanted to rift  they should be able to do it every day. So FTS came right after that with the best solution ever.

• One server fully open world pvp and riftable for those (hundreds according to you) that enjoy it.
• And another server for those that need to learn the game at a peaceful pace without dying ten time within half an hour and eventually logging out. So they could reach end game and enjoy the game at full content.

[Adla]

2 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

Generilizing about the twinks? No, you generalize about the FTS and how it affected twinking and rifting. IF FTS made rifting die it means one thing... people disliked rifting because they opted out.

If hundreds of people enjoyed rifting, then rifting should have never died. The only people absent from the normal servers were the easy pray you never wanted to attack. FTS literally could have made the twinks point valid, it should come with the quote:

"Finally... twinks can do their thing without being accused of griefing while they enjoy killing whoever they see on main maps now because whoever is there already accepts rifting and open world pvp.

Lowbies on the other hand can go safely to level up and enjoy their pace in a pve only server that has all the servers combined because it is an integrated server."

~~

Twink griefing wasn't about killing pinkies, it was about killing people within your levels while they are undergeared and pveing/questing at the moment.

That's nonsensical...

You -are- generalizing about twinks. It's right there to read. I've even given you first hand examples that show you how you're generalizing... you can't just say you're not when you are O.o.

FTS made rifting die because zones were just dead. You also ignored the point I made about FTS giving more exp. Of course everyone would choose that... Some twinks would still go search out other twinks and 50's, like it definitely still happened but for the most part everyone stepped back because Ncsoft went carebear.

Again, I'm not saying ALL your points are invalid, I'm giving you credit to that, but I feel like you're just not reading and digging yourself in using the same generalizations you have been, then claim you're not... when you are?

Plus, people rifted in future patches too, it wasn't an unliked element to the game, it was one that made the game really amazing especially at launch. Rifting was heavily populated, I remember it very clearly from beta through launch, well before I was ever a twink.

 

"Twink griefing wasn't about killing pinkies, it was about killing people within your levels while they are undergeared and pveing/questing at the moment."

And again, you're generalizing after I gave you a first hand twinks experience/desires... so I don't really know what else I can say here. Some of your points are valid, but your approach is god awful and purposely ignorant O.o.

 

 

Not to sound rude but I'm not sure how else to word it, it's pve carebears that are like minded that really just brought themselves down in a game that was never really meant to be played that way... Aion wasn't designed to be Final Fantasy, and I have no real sympathy for people who jumped into Aion without realizing what it was designed to be. 

Future maps being co-habited, continued rifting elements, most means of getting gear revolving around or for PvP... 

 

People "taking their time" to learn the game is one thing, but the game revolved around pvp, which was an element they never seemed to want to learn in the end. I'm willing to bet that includes you.

[Adla]

And again, let me make this very clear, I do see and agree with some points about the FTS. And I am not trying to make people who just wanted to pve or level or avoid being griefed feel insignificant and I apologize if that's what I've done with my poor wording, but there is absolutely a large sum of people who you're discounting based on your perception of morality. That's what I don't appreciate, and I am one of those people.

I don't care if the FTS is introduced again, if it gets more people playing, not that in the end most of those people will get very far anyway... but from my perspective, to reiterate, it marked the beginning of a downward spiral, but please note I do not say the CAUSE of the downward spiral... it was just one of many decisions ncsoft made from then on that I wouldn't have made myself, but that's my preference and I understand that completely.

In the end, I stand by my point that twinking wasn't really the impactful, deciding factor in people quitting en masse... That was ncsoft in general, and their choices in management, lack of action for hacking/exploits, and their constant implementation of pay2w elements.

 

My early memories of rifting/twinking are very vivid in my mind, and lots of action/events are clear to me. I recall massive battles of hundreds vs hundreds, like a siege, at The Fall Road in Asmodae. I recall constant action in Salintus desert, where people of all ranges could group and get AP early on, and experience pvp without having to be in the abyss. I remember hundreds of people camping rifts with their wings popped, and the excitement of it all.

FTS took that element away, twinks or no twinks.

That's why 2.0 rifting was alive. That's why Kata/Dan were good pvp maps. That's why mutual maps continued to be used. That's why Sarpan was heavy with duels, that's why the Eye was loved. 

and screw the abyss

[Cnc]

Twinks are griefers. Period. If you are defending twinks, then you are one of them. There is no other way around it. It's right there to see as Arhangelos already pointed out a dozen times here. Twinkis rifted to Morheim/Eltnem to grief undergeared players leveling. That's all there was to it. Now I can understand people that stay at level 40 to farm AP in the abyss on guards. That's easy PVP gear. But griefing lowbies... come on? Get better.

FTS implemented = twinks quit. Why? Because all the people dying in 2 hits for them moved to the FTS to be able to level in peace. F&ck twinks. You can all quit for all I care. Bye. Adios. Asta la vista. Sayonara. Tchau. Maybe go play LoL or Dota? Can't handle even grounds, huh!?

[Adla]

22 minutes ago, Cnc said:

Twinks are griefers. Period. If you are defending twinks, then you are one of them. There is no other way around it. It's right there to see as Arhangelos already pointed out a dozen times here. Twinkis rifted to Morheim/Eltnem to grief undergeared players leveling. That's all there was to it. Now I can understand people that stay at level 40 to farm AP in the abyss on guards. That's easy PVP gear. But griefing lowbies... come on? Get better.

FTS implemented = twinks quit. Why? Because all the people dying in 2 hits for them moved to the FTS to be able to level in peace. F&ck twinks. You can all quit for all I care. Bye. Adios. Asta la vista. Sayonara. Tchau. Maybe go play LoL or Dota? Can't handle even grounds, huh!?

Except that I used to be one who didn't do that, and didn't twink for that reason. I understand some did, probably even lots, but not all of them and none of my group did.

It's these kind of blanket statements that discourage me from trying to talk to people; you just seem emotionally charged and not much more.

That being said, I did end up leveling, and I did partake regularly in end game pvp for many years. I'd suggest removing your overflowing emotions before making ignorant posts that lack critical thinking.

ITT: you guys just either arent reading or dont care to take someone else's opinion into consideration, both of which I consider sad and are reasons why I think this community continues to go further and further downhill... very little thought is put into posts, and points are often ignored for the sake of "forum pvp", or some kind of sad form of virtue signalling.

 

Like, this isn't Overwatch guys...

[Cnc]

20 hours ago, Adla said:

Except that I used to be one who didn't do that, and didn't twink for that reason. I understand some did, probably even lots, but not all of them and none of my group did.

It's these kind of blanket statements that discourage me from trying to talk to people; you just seem emotionally charged and not much more.

That being said, I did end up leveling, and I did partake regularly in end game pvp for many years. I'd suggest removing your overflowing emotions before making ignorant posts that lack critical thinking.

ITT: you guys just either arent reading or dont care to take someone else's opinion into consideration, both of which I consider sad and are reasons why I think this community continues to go further and further downhill... very little thought is put into posts, and points are often ignored for the sake of "forum pvp", or some kind of sad form of virtue signalling.

 

Like, this isn't Overwatch guys...

You have your distorted experience as a twink, I have my experience as someone who was constantly griefed by said "we lookin for other twinks or 50's" aka "twink pvprs".

I bet you the vast majority feels the same as I did, hence why twinking died. I would get upset for a few mins, but it didn't bothered me more than I enjoyed the other aspects of the game, but a lot, and I mean it, a lot of my friends quit due to twinks constantly griefing them to the point they couldn't even quest for hours.

But hey, you know better, right!?

[Stormwing]

Well, let us be open minded and put it to a quick test by googling it, to get other opinions about the topic from 2009/2010 (and others).

Here are some quotes:

• if you make one you can find people lvling up in elthen/morheim. but beluslan and heiron? forget it they won't give a damn if you are twinky they will zerg you without any doubt
• Eltnen and Morheim rifting twinks cause so much grief and forum rage.
• Right now while a majority of players are still under L40, twink L30s can rampage through them for massive AP gain.
• There is a legion on the server I play on dedicated to this, and while the players aren't on twinked alts per se, their objective is to use the best gear at their level to dominate players around that level (30-35).
• Why normal players should lose Rookie server due to ego of some overgear twink? You can have your fun if there are enough twinks.
• Back in the days 20% were twinking for the sake of low level pvp against other twinks. The rest were just people that couldn't compete in end game cuz they were too sh.. and geared alts to buttrape new players in open world and dredgion.
• Closing rookieserver would only promote slaying new players, which is not the point of having +15 AP geared alt.
• hunting not skilled ppl without gear is a lot if fun ye. dude, even mobs are harder to kill. why do you even struggle?
• Not sure what they can do for twinks. Cannot delete rookie server and have super well geared people hunting low levels, that is just crazy
• If you're bad and can't compete against the veterans, you can always twink and kill lowbies/casuals.
• Its a lot easier to rift as an Asmo. There's way more actual players on the Eylos side PvE farming
• Twinking is dead. thank god.
• But yea i wish it was like the old 1.5 when with a 35 sin you could run all morhein or eltnen killing everything . good times

Just go twink if you want, I do not really care. Everyone should play how he/she enjoys the game as long as it is in the legal and legitimate bounds. But stop trying to glorify it by making heroic stories and non existent scenarios. Even if you are one of the non grieving ones, let it go.

[Cnc]

17 minutes ago, Stormwing said:

Even if you are one of the non grieving ones, let it go.

I doubt that is true though... lol.

[Arhangelos]

The only role FTS could play in rifting was a positive one, yes you heard correctly, it could have never been negative to rifting BY ANY MEANS.

Rifting was supposed to be about those that want to rift, those that didn't want to rift were forced by rifters to participate in something they couldn't win forcing them to quit the game. When a player quits the game because of a feature, that feature is a bad one. One single grifers could have made tenths of people quit.

FTS literally gave the players a choice, go to the main maps if you want to rift, go to FTS if you want to level peacefully.

...and the people chose! Their choice couldn't have been a wrong one because it was THEIR choice and not a forced one.

~~

There is one single group that FTS dissatisfied, that was griefers (twinks or not it doesn't matter). Griefers were hurt and made obsolete by FTS.

• Twinks could still twink and had the whole main maps for them, they are now legalized and nobody can hate them because if you dislike twinks, go to FTS. FTS benefited the twinks that never wanted to grief.
• Rifters could still rift at will without any restrictions
• Levelers could finally level peacefully
• End game users were benefitted because more peopel manage to reach end game before quitting.
   
• ...Griefers, those are the ones who lost and that was the biggest triumph of the FTS server.
  For every griefer that quit, tenths of actual players kept playing because they didn't have to be an easy pray and end up quitting out of frustration because they couldn't play the game.

So if anyone hates FTS, that person was a griefer, point blank period. There is not a single other group of people that got hurt by the FTS itself.

[Arhangelos]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:18 PM, Adla said:

Aion wasn't designed to be Final Fantasy, and I have no real sympathy for people who jumped into Aion without realizing what it was designed to be.

...and it was never made to have some people purposely staying low level and hunt ungeared people. Yes yes, we heard you were not one of them, the vast majority was, and even if there were only a few that did it, then one griefer was enough to kill 100 ungeared players within an hour hurting the game.

The reason why FTS was implemented was to address GRIEFERS that hurt the low level aspect of the game and an important part of it which was rifting. FTS pretty much saved rifting because rifting could still exist without hurting anyone that was too ungeared to participate while rift-lovers could finally enjoy it at full force now without being hated by levelers.

Every twink claimed what you claim that they never wanted to grief... GOOD, because you CANNOT grief anymore while rifting because the ungeared people are gone to  a safe zone.

 

On 11/19/2021 at 10:18 PM, Adla said:

Not to sound rude but I'm not sure how else to word it, it's pve carebears that are like minded that really just brought themselves down in a game that was never really meant to be played that way... Aion wasn't designed to be Final Fantasy, and I have no real sympathy for people who jumped into Aion without realizing what it was designed to be.

People "taking their time" to learn the game is one thing, but the game revolved around pvp, which was an element they never seemed to want to learn in the end. I'm willing to bet that includes you.

PVE carebears because we didn't want to fight while low level in white gear? How about pvp-carebears, aka twinks? We leveled up to end game and we did the REAL pvp, with the hardcore users. Twinking was easy, you could easily gear your chars in low level gear and start pvping. How do you learn ANY aspect of the game when you are 35, totally naked and a griefer comes and kills you in 1 shot? What is the lesson to learn here other than hate griefers or end up hating the game and quit?

The actual pvp was in end game and unless you went there you were nothing but a carebear-pvper.

P.S. I was not doing pve to begin with, once I reached end game I did only the pvp instances and went to every siege which is EXACTLY what aion is made for.

[Cnc]

He is a lost cause @Arhangelos. I'm not wasting time anymore with him.

[Arhangelos]

11 hours ago, Cnc said:

He is a lost cause @Arhangelos. I'm not wasting time anymore with him.

I agree, I kept repeating the same thing over and over until he understands but it is stubbornness that doesn't let him accept his mistake over FTS's existence.

[Adla]

All I've done is give you guys my and my friends and others I knew experience with it, in order to hopefully get rid of the blanket statement and absolute approach. I already said I conceded to some of your points and understood them.

Again, I'm not sure if you guys are reading or not. We're both facing a lost cause here. Each of us wants to be right, but I want to be more realistic in terms of how the discussion is had. Not sure what's hard to get about that.

 

 

In addition, I don't plan on having a twink and I didn't have a twink post 3.0. To be clear on where any additional perceived bias may sit with you.

[Adla]

Like, my largest gripe here is the ignorance that goes into the statements a lot of your are making. I'm not a fan of absolutes, they're vapid, and I'm not just trying to argue to be right. I admitted most twinks were probably griefers, I admitted the FTS had benefits, and that I also want to see the game populated, but I also gave first hand experiences and perceptions that do not allow black and white statements to thrive, because that's vapid thinking. 

 

[Cnc]

21 hours ago, Adla said:

All I've done is give you guys my and my friends and others I knew experience with it, in order to hopefully get rid of the blanket statement and absolute approach. I already said I conceded to some of your points and understood them.

Again, I'm not sure if you guys are reading or not. We're both facing a lost cause here. Each of us wants to be right, but I want to be more realistic in terms of how the discussion is had. Not sure what's hard to get about that.

 

 

In addition, I don't plan on having a twink and I didn't have a twink post 3.0. To be clear on where any additional perceived bias may sit with you.

Why twink at all? Why not level to endgame, rush or not, and PVP players in PVP zones? There is just no point, other than easy prays or easy pvp gear.

[Avator-KT]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:41 AM, Cnc said:

Why twink at all? Why not level to endgame, rush or not, and PVP players in PVP zones? There is just no point, other than easy prays or easy pvp gear.

easy pvp gear. You just said it. The grind for AP gear is time consuming but twinks can literally grind a full 40e in a couple weeks

[Cnc]

6 hours ago, Avator-KT said:

easy pvp gear. You just said it. The grind for AP gear is time consuming but twinks can literally grind a full 40e in a couple weeks

I'm ok with that. If you stay at 40 to farm guards for easy gear, awesome. Nobody cares about that. I'm doing that myself on my new alt.

Now if you rift to grief lowbies, then that's when you start to make people frustrated and quit. And that is what bothers me. Get your easy PvP gear grinding guards, then level up. It's that simple.