Outrage machine go brrrrr

[Adenous]

Long post incoming. TL;DR: The candies will not - and cannot - ruin the game's economy. They also provide no significant advantage, where significance is measured by your ability to tell if someone used them just by looking at their gear.

 

The furore surrounding the purchasable candies has been rampant and heavily unwarranted. I'm certain I'll be bombarded with the tired responses saying I'm just defending NCsoft, so I'll start by saying I don't think the candies should be able to be vendored in game at all. By putting the vendor price in the item tooltip, it's evident that candies were a cash grab by NC. However, here I'll explain why that cash grab, while potentially unethical, is not going to break the game, or even leave any noticeable effect.

Let's start with economic theory (riveting). I've seen many argue that this injection of kinah into the game will break the player economy by causing mass inflation, in the same way we see inflation in real national economies caused by over-minting. With more money in circulation, prices rise. Simply put, however, equating a video game's virtual economy to a national economy is a mistake. Without physical, government-backed fiat currency that is physically minted, there's simply no parallel. Kinah is constantly minted and destroyed in game. When you spend 30 million kinah on an enchantment stone and it breaks, that 30 million kinah is, in effect, deleted from the server. Meanwhile, when just 30 players farm white and green drops and vendor them for their 1 million kinah each, 30 million kinah is created from nothing - minted. What this means is that virtual economies lack a crucial element for dictating inflation and deflation: circulation. 

With that said, it is possible for kinah to be worth more or less, server to server, based on a variety of factors, including RMT, population, farm efficiency, and, yes, something like candies (official RMT, albeit in very low volumes). However, there are two reasons this fluctuation of value doesn't negatively (or positively) affect the economy or how the game plays out. 1) Aion's economy is an isolated system that does not trade with nor is affected by external economies, and 2) Aion doesn't have wages, taxation, or any other economic regulation. If your kinah is, pound of pound, worth more than the kinah of someone on another server, there's no way to leverage that. You might be able to get L70 Enchantment Stones for ~2 million kinah less than someone on Israphel, but that also means you'll earn less kinah when you trade on the broker. A server merge could cause a hiccough, but it would balance itself out in a matter of days. Secondly, everybody earns kinah in the same handful of ways: crafting consumables, farming mobs, selling loot rights, etc. The point is, the overwhelming majority of income stems from player-player interactions, where a heightened (or lessened) value of kinah affects both parties equally. 

Moving on from economics, then, let's talk about how much of a difference these candies can make to the actual player experience. Or, to put it another way, if candies are pay-to-win, how pay-to-win are they?

As some have pointed out, liquidating the candies is not all that straightforward. "Whales" have three main options

1. Only sell 10 candies per day, have an income stream of 1 million kinah per day forever.
2. Make many characters across many accounts to bypass the vendor limit.
3. Sell candies to other players for less than 100,000 kinah each.

The first is easily brushed aside as inconsequential - everyone can farm a million kinah a day, this method just means it can be done without actual farm. Debatable whether this is actually an advantage, because it just means they're playing the game less. Maybe an advantage over those who are too busy to farm 1 million kinah each day.

The second is the most common argument I've seen, but as one user (sorry I've forgotten your name and am being too lazy to check) noted, whales are notoriously lazy, the idea of getting multiple characters to level 10 would not appeal in the slightest, and wouldn't pay dividends until a pretty high number of characters have been levelled to 10. Even 5 characters would only be 5 million kinah per day, which is still well within the realm of what can be achieved by just playing the game. 

And finally the p2p selling of candies. Probably the most effective way, but it has two key side effects. Firstly, the $USD:kinah ratio drops as soon as you start doing this, making it immediately less appealing when sinking large amounts of real money into it. Secondly, it's impossible to do this without inadvertently helping the players who buy them from you, which mediates any advantage that whales can get over other players. 

But yes, using any or all of these techniques, people willing to spend a lot of real money can acquire more kinah than those who aren't (or can't). Is this a bad thing? Yes, certainly. Is it worth the outrage we've seen? No, not even close. 

The figure I've seen thrown around is $11 for 3 million kinah. 3 million kinah can help a lot early on. You can +10 your silver coin weapon and make your rifting life a little bit easier. A little bit is not an understatement though, it's really not dramatic. There are far worse imbalances involved in rifting, primarily level difference, and secondarily numbers advantages. By the time the average level in the server is in the 40s, 3 million kinah is nothing at all. To maintain that slim advantage, you'd need to start spending big. Really big. From memory (I hope this isn't too far off the mark), an L70 Enchantment Stone was some ~10-15 million kinah. That's $33-55USD. Per stone. Of which you'd need 60 if you want to +10 all your gear, assuming not a single one breaks. That's $2,400USD (assuming an average of $40USD per stone). And again, assuming not a single one fails. Is it possible to inject this kind of cash into the game for a nice boost to stats? Yes. Is it likely? Not at all. There may be people who will drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on enchantment stones and manastones, but I'd wager you could count them all on one hand. Not only that, if they're unwilling to farm the kinah for these stones, it's hard to imagine they'd be willing to farm the AP for gear even worth enchanting. And by the time they have it, they'd likely have enough kinah to do most of the enchanting without candies anyway. Which means you would, too. 

In end game, then, the difference between you (honourable, respectable, legit gamer), and them (scummy, whale, all-round bad human) is an enchantment level of like, 5? Maybe? 

There would be no perceptible difference between the gear of a whale and a 'regular player' at level 50. Nothing in the cash shop can provide a significant leg-up, let alone an insurmountable one. As others have stated, complaining about the candies is more likely to be a death knell for the game than the candies themselves. Stop getting so worked up, and just play the game. I've missed out on the time it would've taken to farm a million kinah just by writing this. Don't make the same mistake. 

P.s. I'm very aware that most of you up in arms are coming from a place of genuine concern for the game you love, and I appreciate and respect how much you care about the health of the game; I promise I feel the same. But for the sake of the game, and your mental wellbeing, take a moment to consider the actual impact of these candies. If, as some of you have stated, it becomes a slippery slope towards real pay to win, I will immediately be on your side. Until then, however, I think we can look to KR and how it's avoided pay-to-win as hope for the future. Happy grinding!!

[Guest Hobbyist]

You know nothing about economics, and just because you know how to craft a well worded essay with words like fiat currencies and "riveting" doesn't make you right. I see through your bullshit.

 

Imagine if individual persons had the ability to MINT their own national currencies by converting some other asset. That's the parallel, not government backing. Currency being pulled OUT of Aions economy is capped by item availability, with no upper limit of how much can be added.

 

Your entire post is inaccurate and shows how little you actually know about finance and economics in the REAL world.

[Guest Pleb]

@Adenous So you think that when you go to the store and buy bread, and eat it, the money you payed for it gets "erased" from the economy? Or is it that they change hands? And the more money there are the more expensive the bread is, so lets say the minimum wage becomes 30$/h but now everything is 4 times more expensive than before, and your 30$ buys you half of what you were getting when the wage was 15$ effectively devaluing your labor in half, thats the real world example that you are looking for, compared to here.

[Fest-DN]

1 minute ago, Guest Hobbyist said:

You know nothing about economics, and just because you know how to craft a well worded essay with words like fiat currencies and "riveting" doesn't make you right. I see through your bullshit.

 

Imagine if individual persons had the ability to MINT their own national currencies by converting some other asset. That's the parallel, not government backing. Currency being pulled OUT of Aions economy is capped by item availability, with no upper limit of how much can be added.

 

Your entire post is inaccurate and shows how little you actually know about finance and economics in the REAL world.

Even if a national economy isn't a perfect 1:1 comparison the general point of the post is spot on imo. The motion cards are a good example of an in-game item with a set price that illustrates how bad 11usd=3mil really is. They are 15 mil a pop which equates to roughly 55usd using candy exchange. These were an easy, thoughtless pickup for me back in the day and absolutely were not, in no reality, worth 50+ bucks. The idea that an early edge acquired via candies ramps down and expires is accurate imo. The amount of money you'd need to drop to keep up with the rising costs of everything as more kinah enters the economy is obscene especially considering prices are already going to be jacked since so many people are going to be vying for medals. 

Obviously we're going to have to see what actually happens but this post is easily as valid as the pile of ones claiming that candy will turn the economy into a whales-only attraction at Aion: Seaworld. 

[Guest Hobbyist]

10 minutes ago, Fest-DN said:

 Obviously we're going to have to see what actually happens but this post is easily as valid as the pile of ones claiming that candy will turn the economy into a whales-only attraction at Aion: Seaworld. 

The truth lies somewhere in the middle (as is usually the case). With that said, you mention a person spending $50 wouldn't be worth it.

 

People can, and do spend $10k per month or more on video games. I know that seems insane, but those people exist, and itll be far more than the "can count on one hand" than the OP claims. There will be people who are multi-trillipnaires in short time. It's terrible for the game, even if it won't completely spiral out of control for a while.

[Guest Vanilla]

45 minutes ago, Adenous said:

The furore surrounding the purchasable candies has been rampant and heavily unwarranted. I'm certain I'll be bombarded with the tired responses saying I'm just defending NCsoft, so I'll start by saying I don't think the candies should be able to be vendored in game at all. By putting the vendor price in the item tooltip, it's evident that candies were a cash grab by NC. However, here I'll explain why that cash grab, while potentially unethical, is not going to break the game, or even leave any noticeable effect.

Could've left it at that. As you say yourself, it's obviously not created out of any consumer friendly practice. So why should we play this subscription based game then? What is the reasoning which justifies the existence of this to begin with, in a subscription based game?

[Guest yyy]

Adenous thanks for your opinion, finally some1 who can understand candies and dont cry all day about p2w. I wish more ppl could use brain like u

[Adenous]

9 minutes ago, Guest Vanilla said:

Could've left it at that. As you say yourself, it's obviously not created out of any consumer friendly practice. So why should we play this subscription based game then? What is the reasoning which justifies the existence of this to begin with, in a subscription based game?

Because I think they're two separate arguments. I don't disagree with the people saying NC added the candies in bad faith, only with those who say it's going to crash the game's economy.

[Fest-DN]

4 minutes ago, Guest Hobbyist said:

The truth lies somewhere in the middle (as is usually the case). With that said, you mention a person spending $50 wouldn't be worth it.

 

People can, and do spend $10k per month or more on video games. I know that seems insane, but those people exist, and itll be far more than the "can count on one hand" than the OP claims. There will be people who are multi-trillipnaires in short time. It's terrible for the game, even if it won't completely spiral out of control for a while.

Yeah, those people are a baffling breed to be sure but producing a trillionaire via candies is an overstatement. I'd give it a month before bots outperform the $$:kinah exchange and those whales, just like they did in Aion at launch, will move to the more efficient exchange and candies will  be something that people buy with excess quna from other purchases. Because seriously, dropping 10k on candies even assuming the whale in question tackles the multi-account long term exchange to get full value from their candies they're netting what? 3 bil~? I mean I've seen the hefty bags being held by the end of 2.x and that is absolute chump change.

This is an early but brittle edge, useful but not economy exploding.

I agree that the truth is likely somewhere in the middle though, this will inflate the economy to some degree but it's unlikely to cause persistent or catastrophic damage. Again, all posts claiming future knowledge are full of varying degrees of crap. We will see how it goes, bottom line is NCsoft shouldn't have added these, especially at launch, but it's probably not going to be worth the now dozen+ threads discussing it.

[Adenous]

2 minutes ago, Fest-DN said:

We will see how it goes, bottom line is NCsoft shouldn't have added these, especially at launch, but it's probably not going to be worth the now dozen+ threads discussing it.

Couldn't agree more. Spent some time deliberating whether I'd even bother adding to the discussion with this post, but just felt there was way too much noise from the doomsayers - had to balance it a bit. 

[Guest AionTooSoon]

44 minutes ago, Fest-DN said:

Even if a national economy isn't a perfect 1:1 comparison the general point of the post is spot on imo. The motion cards are a good example of an in-game item with a set price that illustrates how bad 11usd=3mil really is. They are 15 mil a pop which equates to roughly 55usd using candy exchange. These were an easy, thoughtless pickup for me back in the day and absolutely were not, in no reality, worth 50+ bucks. The idea that an early edge acquired via candies ramps down and expires is accurate imo. The amount of money you'd need to drop to keep up with the rising costs of everything as more kinah enters the economy is obscene especially considering prices are already going to be jacked since so many people are going to be vying for medals. 

Obviously we're going to have to see what actually happens but this post is easily as valid as the pile of ones claiming that candy will turn the economy into a whales-only attraction at Aion: Seaworld. 

Instead of things inflating and rising in price organically, we just brought 1 trillion to the market. And wages have stayed the same the entire time. Those who don't participate in the candy selling are getting punished for being unaware of the fact it is a thing. Like a forced 'Keep up or get left out economy boom', everyone has to play along. 

i guess its good for the inflation to hit so NPC bought items ultimately cost less time to purchase but the entire market flood of kinah was not organically done and it causes unequality for those who farm for kinah by killing monsters and npc the loot.

It's just an arduous and frustrating process for a NEW SERVER is already have players with insane amounts of purchasing power that helps them quite a bit faster!
No matter what explanation people give to this fiasco, they can not deny the fact players got a leveling and in turn power advantage over the remaining playerbase who had not purchased these passes or candies.

 

No its still not economy 101 equality. If they sell it unlimited to players at a discount, guess what? They keep 75k profit while others only get 25k. its a 4:1 ratio of kinah acquisition. Still a benefit to sell to others for unlimited kinah cap in the beginning couple of months  for absolute player advantages that come along with hitting level cap first, hitting dungeons first, hitting crafting max first, hitting abyss mob farming first, hitting max +15 enchant first, getting their faction/guild siege capture first by level superiority if not also gear.

[Guest Pleb]

18 minutes ago, Fest-DN said:

Yeah, those people are a baffling breed to be sure but producing a trillionaire via candies is an overstatement. I'd give it a month before bots outperform the $$:kinah exchange and those whales, just like they did in Aion at launch, will move to the more efficient exchange and candies will  be something that people buy with excess quna from other purchases. Because seriously, dropping 10k on candies even assuming the whale in question tackles the multi-account long term exchange to get full value from their candies they're netting what? 3 bil~? I mean I've seen the hefty bags being held by the end of 2.x and that is absolute chump change.

This is an early but brittle edge, useful but not economy exploding.

I agree that the truth is likely somewhere in the middle though, this will inflate the economy to some degree but it's unlikely to cause persistent or catastrophic damage. Again, all posts claiming future knowledge are full of varying degrees of crap. We will see how it goes, bottom line is NCsoft shouldn't have added these, especially at launch, but it's probably not going to be worth the now dozen+ threads discussing it.

Ok, but all you guys defending it with the argument "We just don't know what the effects will be" even tho the opposite arguments are based on historical both real world and virtual examples of this happening. Do you understand what your position means if you are wrong, it means that if it actually happens then it will be already too late. Your wait and see approach gives little to no chance of recovering in the case you are wrong. Heres an example, lets say that i predict there will be some massive cataclysm based on historical data of it occurring when certain circumstances align, but then i get shut down by people and the government(NCSoft in this case) with "We don't know what will happen its all here say" and nothing gets done about, then the cataclysm happens and millions die, after it will be already too late but if someone listened it would have been preventable or at the least mitigated.

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."

[Fest-DN]

15 minutes ago, Guest AionTooSoon said:

Instead of things inflating and rising in price organically, we just brought 1 trillion to the market. And wages have stayed the same the entire time. Those who don't participate in the candy selling are getting punished for being unaware of the fact it is a thing. Like a forced 'Keep up or get left out economy boom', everyone has to play along. 

i guess its good for the inflation to hit so NPC bought items ultimately cost less time to purchase but the entire market flood of kinah was not organically done and it causes unequality for those who farm for kinah by killing monsters and npc the loot.

It's just an arduous and frustrating process for a NEW SERVER is already have players with insane amounts of purchasing power that helps them quite a bit faster!
No matter what explanation people give to this fiasco, they can not deny the fact players got a leveling and in turn power advantage over the remaining playerbase who had not purchased these passes or candies.

 

No its still not economy 101 equality. If they sell it unlimited to players at a discount, guess what? They keep 75k profit while others only get 25k. its a 4:1 ratio of kinah acquisition. Still a benefit to sell to others for unlimited kinah cap in the beginning couple of months  for absolute player advantages that come along with hitting level cap first, hitting dungeons first, hitting crafting max first, hitting abyss mob farming first, hitting max +15 enchant first, getting their faction/guild siege capture first by level superiority if not also gear.

Agreed that the problem is rooted in the introduction of unnatural kinah into a fresh market, disagree that the edge of being first to level/instance/enchant is the worrying aspect. Whether the market was inflated or deflated bots were selling kinah on Aion at launch in quantities that allowed for these same things to happen then and now. Scummy whales bought kinah then from illicit sources but it was before p2w and f2p had risen to the prominence and awareness they have now. Even stretching it to include people who shared accounts to rush 50, legions who dumped resources to power level/gear prominent members, etc. Someone was always first, always employing some edge that an average player wouldn't be able to to get a leg up. Not to even bring up the fact that incredibly talented players started late, geared up and progressed legitimately, and were perfectly successful in all forms of content over Aion's lifetime. I don't find early buying power/ general kinah access to be a massive issue until we hit the 5.x era.

I think the core message here is that this is not a cataclysmic game-exploding thing, no more, no less. It's bad, I don't think there is any argument for it being good, I just don't want the discussion to remain as stilted and, frankly, immature as it has been these past few days. So, while I disagree with you on some points, I do appreciate where you're coming from and hope that both our opinions are viewed and evaluated as actual feedback, something that NCsoft sorely needs to take a look at right now.

Also obligatory candy is garbage and should be removed/made untradeable immediately to stem any further consequences theoretical or otherwise.

 

[Guest Kaeta-SL]

8 hours ago, Adenous said:

When you spend 30 million kinah on an enchantment stone and it breaks, that 30 million kinah is, in effect, deleted from the server.

True ONLY if that 30 million kinah went to an NPC, otherwise, you're just making some other player 30 million kinah richer.

 

8 hours ago, Adenous said:

The first is easily brushed aside as inconsequential - everyone can farm a million kinah a day

The second is whales are notoriously lazy

1.  I sure wish I knew how to farm a million kinah in a day.  I didn't get that sort of cash per day on the regular until I was about L60.  Sure, I could have sold farmed stuff, BUT I NEEDED THAT FARMED STUFF MYSELF, so that's a net gain of 0.

2.  Whales are not (necessarily) lazy, it's the efficient allocation of resources/opportunity cost.  If you make $10 an hour n your day job, there's a lot smaller cost to you blowing time farming in a game compared to if you're making $200 dollars an hour, it's more efficient to do your RL job, make money, and blow it in a game.  Say you need to farm something for 5 hours, or pay $100.  The first person, their time is only worth $50, it's more efficient to farm the game.  The second, their time is worth $1000, it is FAR more efficient to spend what's 15 minutes of time to them compared to spending 5 hours.

Not that I'm defending whales and RMT, but a) they do pay the bills for NCSoft, and b) I have a business degree and take this stuff a bit personally when it comes to accounting and economics.

[Adenous]

Just now, Guest Kaeta-SL said:

True ONLY if that 30 million kinah went to an NPC, otherwise, you're just making some other player 30 million kinah richer.

Sorry you're absolutely correct and that was a very wrong example - I should have instead used an example of purchasing from NPCs, like the millions that go into the motion cards, or the millions that add up over time from broker fees, teleporting, soul healing, etc. etc. to show how kinah is "deleted" from the server. 

[IceAge]

6 hours ago, Adenous said:

Sorry you're absolutely correct and that was a very wrong example - I should have instead used an example of purchasing from NPCs, like the millions that go into the motion cards, or the millions that add up over time from broker fees, teleporting, soul healing, etc. etc. to show how kinah is "deleted" from the server. 

This has to be one of the most ...idiotic things i've read in this forums.

Not only you were wrong that a 30 mil kinah item, if broken, that kinah disappear from the game ( which is not ), you are still trying to defend the P2W with excuses like .... players will spend Kinah at NPCs for ....................motion cards, borker fees ..............TELEPORTING, soul healing, etc, etc ??!?!? This were ALREADY in-game, so this is NOT "additional spendings", while Kinah from Candies are ...additional Kinah added in-game ....out of nowhere!

Bah, can't believe how far people goes into defending something like P2W.

[Guest Aute]

What restrains some candy lover to +10 all his gear with crit mboost manastones, stock up on potions, scrolls and rift the hell out of Elthen as we speak? Do you believe person not taking part in all this candy bs will have even chances upon meeting those wallet warriors?

Weren't half of people complaining how bad twinks are to the new regular players? Wasn't fresh start and low level elthen/abyss pvp on even grounds supposed to be large part of what a lot of people came here for?

So he can easily have upper hand now, farm the heck out of everyone, get his 30e gear over time, for which he will instantly have all the manastones/enchants, keep that upper hand again all the way till endgame. That is fair in your books?

Even if you are true that candies wont matter in long run, the moment they will became ineffective enough for wallet warriors to not stock on them, surely NCSoft will figure out next p2w method to keep money rolling in, while people as you will keep supporting them.


 

[IceAge]

4 hours ago, Guest Aute said:

What restrains some candy lover to +10 all his gear with crit mboost manastones, stock up on potions, scrolls and rift the hell out of Elthen as we speak? Do you believe person not taking part in all this candy bs will have even chances upon meeting those wallet warriors?

Weren't half of people complaining how bad twinks are to the new regular players? Wasn't fresh start and low level elthen/abyss pvp on even grounds supposed to be large part of what a lot of people came here for?

So he can easily have upper hand now, farm the heck out of everyone, get his 30e gear over time, for which he will instantly have all the manastones/enchants, keep that upper hand again all the way till endgame. That is fair in your books?

Even if you are true that candies wont matter in long run, the moment they will became ineffective enough for wallet warriors to not stock on them, surely NCSoft will figure out next p2w method to keep money rolling in, while people as you will keep supporting them.


 

They say normal players have the same "chances" and that starting lvl 20+ they can easily make 1 Mil kinah daily ( which is not the case, but ok ). 

I just saw a streamer 2 hours ago, lv 32 , with no "kinah" buyings ( aka candies ) and I don't think that he even had Daeva Pass. Thing is, at lvl 32, he had 1.1 mil Kinah, LOL.

In before "hahaha, he doesn't know how to play" , "bla bla bla". He knows EXACTLY how to play it.

[Guest Aute]

Don' t mind the p2w crowd, they will find any excuses how this is fine.

There are plenty of people out there who will use any advantages over others and figure out excuses why this is not cheating.

RMT from chinese bots is frowned upon. Yet when gaming company does it, it is suddenly fine. Yes, nothing is free, but we already have p2p subscription. You can' t progress in f2p model, it is there literary for an excuse why cash shop exists.

This whole discussion is not going to change anything, so best vote is to quit. I don't mind if people want to wallet rush, have fun between yourselves, just as it is in crapload of gacha games.

Saying this is fine and doesn't matter long term, well keep finding excuses why you are afraid of playing on even grounds.

 

[Guest Wgdays]

It's not a big deal. 

As is usually the case in gaming, the ire and vitriol we see on the forums is from a small sample of the player base. This place is an echo chamber of general awfulness. 

Look, people are gonna do as they please. Buy gold, cheat systems, find glitches, use all their PTO to play - whatever. You will never be the best in an MMO. That is a cold, hard fact. There was never going to be an "even" PvP experience here,  come on (that particular idea is truly laughable). The playing field was not and will not be level. But guess what? The individual experience does *not* get impacted by their decisions unless you're willing to let it. 

If your goal is to be an insufferable try-hard, then sure...maybe the lens you're looking through is painted with jealousy and the letters "BS" all over.  But if you're playing within the realistic parameters of what your life allows, it. does. not. matter. 

Enjoy Aion Classic on your terms, not someone else's. It's fun! People are having fun and helping each other in general chat. 

[Guest Aute]

"the ire and vitriol we see on the forums is from a small sample of the player base"

This is the usual excuse, you could have said "vocal minority" instead

As of now, I have been playing World of Warships, where introducing CV changes made major oldschool player uprising, which was kept being addressed as  "vocal minority" from people buying and supporting them for a year or so.

Couple of days ago, they finally did major nerfs to CV gameplay, suddenly the vocal minority turned out to be right. Only took a year, I wonder how long it will take for Aion?

 

[Guest Narmina]

Yes, the money gets a value, the lower the value is, the more you need to buy a cookie.

But you forget two things :

First =>
While on the most high level player you are quite right, they will sell their cookie at higher cost, and so, take a good part of the money created by the candies, the slower players are nyerked up.

I sold some stigmas 200k, 300k, even one at 500k... now all those are for the most expensive, 60k.
While all level, at first the lvl20+ loot were rare, and could go in high prices, now, anyone who loot them cant hope a lot from them : demand vs offer. and the offer is so high that prices goes down, and down. because sellers hope to sell their shit, they are in competition, not the buyers.

The candies just make a faster and bigger difference in wealth between faster and slower (in leveling)

Second =>
It seems you think that most money from candies are fast used in broker, or to buy high cost shit (armfusion, the expand of cube/warehouse, etc)
I have no proof, but good reasons to think that most are for now... sleeping. waiting to a really usefull way to use them. and it can wait even wait for miragent/fenris ...

The money that today define the cost of the cookie is only a part of the existing money.


 

4 hours ago, Guest Aute said:

Couple of days ago, they finally did major nerfs to CV gameplay, suddenly the vocal minority turned out to be right. Only took a year, I wonder how long it will take for Aion?

 

maybe never ? :-°

[Guest Narmina]

5 hours ago, Guest Aute said:

RMT from chinese bots is frowned upon. Yet when gaming company does it, it is suddenly fine. Yes, nothing is free, but we already have p2p subscription. You can' t progress in f2p model, it is there literary for an excuse why cash shop exists.

 

The cash shop in P2P games where pandora's box from the begining... and even when only cosmetic, it is a matter.
Originally P2P = all people got the exact same game. 1 outfit for real money makes the game different between those who can pay for it, and those who can't. YES for one, hundred, thousands outfit, with only aesthetic use, it is not a big problem, but the old rule is now broken.

 

Then, when there is ingame advantages, come the discussion... P2W or no? Each of us set the bar in different levels. The wow token for me is fine, gold is nearly useless except world first... and they don't need wow token to get gold. on the other side, on BDO, the selling of outfit is more a matter with all money we need to make the stuff... and i find it even worse on Aion (again, for stuff, just more impactfull)
Even more a matter in aion : BDO it is player A who farms the silvers, and gives them to player B who bought outfit. There is playtime in it. And the money the player B get will be used to do his stuff, but player A could also not buying outfit and using the money for his own stuff.
On aion ? it totally creates money out of nothing, with 0 second of farm, nothing. So the buyer gets money, without nothing in the game being done for it.

 

 

2 kind of people will ask the other to stop
1) Whales. yes they defend what they do, because they think it is nothing bad, their right, etc
2) people just desesperate to get good games, and understand well how bad this badbuzz could be for the game.

the 2nd type of people have to understand : defending it only to defend the game itself is not the way we will have again good games. . . it just shows to gameforge, PerfectWorld, NCsoft, but also actiblizz, SE, Amazon and others what they can do, where is the "limit" today. and also, how try to push the limit a little more.