It's not that hard, don't worry.

[Jake-DN]

To dispel the rumors, since some get confused, it's not hard nor involves anything that people can't do normally, anyone can casually do this in 12 minutes. Cheer up, we all know Gelk is the best map to rift into compared to Ing. Just another day in Asmodae.  

 

 

[Joxer]

I do still expect NCsoft to say yes or no if Ely should or shouldn't be in Zone 1 of Gelk and vice versa. Retail this was not allowed and so far @Rin has only been vague. It should be simple as a yes or no. That I am aware of there is NO road or way into Gelk Fortress other than a gate that has to be broken first. This is being used to kill players that otherwise DO expect to be in a safe zone and does very much feel like an exploiting of the environment to get somewhere that was not necessarily intended for PvP.

So NCsoft needs to put this on the record. Is Zone 1 intended for the opposite faction/PvP or is it not. It is an easy question. @Funkula

Edited January 20, 2023 by Joxer
Added Detail

[Jake-DN]

1 hour ago, Joxer said:

That I am aware of there is NO road or way into Gelk Fortress other than a gate that has to be broken first. . @Funkula

Did you mean Ing or did you not watch my video? 

You can casually get to Gelk fort from Gelk 3rd zone casually in 12 minutes. Just gliding. No trickery, nothing hard, no involvement of 3rd party external applications. No need for gates or any issues with guards. 

Ing relies heavily on RNG for what methods we know of, would want a full group to kisk spot each rng glide. 

[Stormwing]

People assume that enemies should not be inside Inggison and Gelkmaros fortress due to a decade old message by a former Gamemaster on retail.

Looking at it technically, the game itself does not prevent it heavily, which it obvisouly easily could. If you look at the fortresses in Eltnen; Heiron; Morheim and Beluslan everyone was able to infiltrate those anytime and none really cried about it. I used to slay enemies in Beluslan fortress, Red Mane Cavern and Hoarfrost Shelter and they never made a post about it. I used to get attacked at Heiron Gate often and never came complaining on the forum about it. Because it was meant to be. Because everyone was aware of it being possible. Compared to that, there are Teminon and Primus fortresses, surrounded by a large lethal bubble barrier. At the start of retail that barrier could be bypassed by ressurecting at the other side of it, whereas later and still now it instantly sends you back to the obelisk. So Teminon and Primus fortresses are not meant to be reached by the enemy faction and the rest are.

As a player, if I can reach a location by only using the games functionality, without the help of any third party application, I assume it is meant to be reached and part of exploring the world of Atreia. Especially if it is still possible over a decade later.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Stormwing

[Joxer]

My point is that Ncsoft has not clarified that the Gelk or Ing Forts are free game for the opposite faction or not. If fact the statements are vastly more confusing and has created more confusion. I would argue that if Ing relies on group/kisk/RNG to get into then the ease of getting into Gelk fortress is by happenstance an accident and not intended. Be odd to allow Ely into Gelk fortress with ease on purpose but not for Asmo into Ing Fortress. Your comment alone leads me to believe that it is actually unintended. Why NCsoft has decided to be so vague for Classic is beyond me.

[Stormwing]

NcSoft never clarified as well whether ID/loot selling should be allowed or not in Classic. Most players just assume so because the game offers the possibility. NcSoft never clarified whether players are meant to invade starting zones in Eltnen/Morheim as well, because there was nothing to clarify. NcSoft never clarified whether players are supposed to be able to skip most of the elites in Kishar/Indratu by sneaking around the mountain tops. And so on..

What you seek in this matter is not a clarification, what you want is an official statement forbidding it. I support your cause, but not your reasoning.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Stormwing

[Dorito]

It's explicitly allowed. I've been spam reported for being there, but im not banned. Ipso facto it's allowed.

[Joxer]

16 hours ago, Dorito said:

It's explicitly allowed. I've been spam reported for being there, but im not banned. Ipso facto it's allowed.

If that were true Dorito, I do believe the statement would have been made by the support staff already. They have not.

[Shirene-DN]

The fact is the staff have no clue about the game, much less about the changes it went through since the 2009 launch. As a test I made a ticket asking if it was allowed to access the safe zone near the city, the reply was that it is because it was necessary in order to capture the fortresses.. yeah ok. They must have a few guidelines to follow and basic concepts and rules about the game and go from there, without actually understanding what you are talking about. They probably do ~support for the few NCWest published games, not just Aion.

Quote

Upon further checking, it appears that the Asmodian faction can enter the Inggison zone. It was intended as this the only way to compete and capture the fortresses during fortress siege. Additionally,  the Elyos faction can also enter the Gelkmaros zone.

This is what you get from a milky leecher westernized publisher and underpaid support staff with minimal training and resources, nobody cares or gives 2 f. about running this game properly.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Shirene-DN

[Dorito]

They did say already. It's only vague if you disagree with the ability to get to the first zone.

[Locke]

Scaling almost vertical cliffs with careful jumping that took several attempts, then gliding from peak to peak until you're up so high that textures no longer render.

How about like... a road? That would be normal.

[Jake-DN]

18 hours ago, Locke said:

Scaling almost vertical cliffs with careful jumping that took several attempts, then gliding from peak to peak until you're up so high that textures no longer render.

How about like... a road? That would be normal.

Several attempts cause I had just woken up and was still sleepy. It's pretty easy to do once you do it a few times though. It's nothing outrageously difficult or involves any RNG. Glide to the big mushroom is about the most RNG related thing and even that is pretty reliable if you go right a slight bit and curve back in. 

There also is a road, just a gate and guards that you can't go through solo. 

Point is elyos can access first zone gelk with no real issue and takes very little time. Can go from first zone Ing to first zone gelk in under 20 minutes possibly.

[Joxer]

7 hours ago, Jake-DN said:

Several attempts cause I had just woken up and was still sleepy. It's pretty easy to do once you do it a few times though. It's nothing outrageously difficult or involves any RNG. Glide to the big mushroom is about the most RNG related thing and even that is pretty reliable if you go right a slight bit and curve back in. 

There also is a road, just a gate and guards that you can't go through solo. 

Point is elyos can access first zone gelk with no real issue and takes very little time. Can go from first zone Ing to first zone gelk in under 20 minutes possibly.

Jake, your video and how you just described how you do it is exactly counter to what RIN stated about accessing parts of maps. As you are using terrain to glide around and over areas that were not meant to get over; then you ARE access Gelk fortress in a way that was unintended by the developers.

[Jake-DN]

3 hours ago, Joxer said:

Jake, your video and how you just described how you do it is exactly counter to what RIN stated about accessing parts of maps. As you are using terrain to glide around and over areas that were not meant to get over; then you ARE access Gelk fortress in a way that was unintended by the developers.

Aion has always had a sport for mountain climbing. It's part of the open world exploration aspect of it. Devs know this. When the devs wish people not to be able to get into a certain point, theyll put in an invisible wall/barrier. 

The question to ask is what exactly suggests youre not allowed or intended to do this? There are guards and a gate which suggests players could kill them and gain access, so it's an area that the devs expect players to be able to get into. There is no invisible wall blocking the player and no manipulation to get around it. Why would you suggest players aren't intended to be there? 

The only thing suggesting players not be able to go there was the region specific ruling  due to NCSoft NA losing a lot of the playerbase back in 2010 due to griefing from rifters and they wanted a place for pver's to feel safe to keep their money. 

 

 

edit: I'm all for Zone 1 being safe and unaccessable. I support that. However, it's clear the devs intended for people to be able to go there. Same approach as players raiding Beluslan fort or Jep Village. It's not like Primum/Teminon fort, where there is a clear force field that auto kills you. Only reason why people say people can't go into Gelk/Ing first zone was because of the ruling to keep a player base that was constantly complaining about griefing rifters. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Jake-DN

[Locke]

I can't believe I'm typing this but any ledge that requires you to jump 30 times to get up is not intentional.

[Dorito]

It is.

[Jake-DN]

22 hours ago, Locke said:

I can't believe I'm typing this but any ledge that requires you to jump 30 times to get up is not intentional.

Go to arena of chaos and get the adma/undead library map. Go to the one room that has a block of a step in the doorway. Laugh as you get repeatedly stuck on it. It's very clear it's intentional to be able to traverse through the doorway, however due to how the map was designed, it's very glitchy. If the z axis was not meant to be traversed, it would have kicked in the new auto rebound feature theyve implemented. Aion devs have been clear how open they are for exploration. There is nothing wrong or unintended with what I showed in the video, aside from the chat (lol). 
Jump 30 times is not a reasonable excuse to deem something not intentional.
Once again, only reason why it took so many attempts is because I was still in my sleep stupor. 

[Locke]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:36 PM, Jake-DN said:

If the z axis was not meant to be traversed, it would have kicked in the new auto rebound feature theyve implemented.

You think it's intentional to be able to jump up a nearly vertical hill after 30 tries, just because it doesn't rubber band you on the z-axis? Even after people got banned for it in retail?

 

On 1/27/2023 at 4:36 PM, Jake-DN said:

Aion devs have been clear how open they are for exploration.

They used to ban people for gliding to Zapiel and Jeshuchi too.

Where are you pulling this from?

 

On 1/27/2023 at 4:36 PM, Jake-DN said:

Once again, only reason why it took so many attempts is because I was still in my sleep stupor. 

You made this post with fighting words like "it's not that hard", then you're like, "oh I was just sleepy". lol

[Joxer]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:36 PM, Jake-DN said:

Go to arena of chaos and get the adma/undead library map. Go to the one room that has a block of a step in the doorway. Laugh as you get repeatedly stuck on it. It's very clear it's intentional to be able to traverse through the doorway, however due to how the map was designed, it's very glitchy. If the z axis was not meant to be traversed, it would have kicked in the new auto rebound feature theyve implemented. Aion devs have been clear how open they are for exploration. There is nothing wrong or unintended with what I showed in the video, aside from the chat (lol). 

Jake, we all know there are places in the game that are more prone than others to glitch through floors, get stuck on corners, or per your example stub your toe over and over. So to use the argument that if you aren't meant to go there you should get rebounded is gas lighting at best. For those that have played Asmodians, I'm sure plenty have glitched the guardrail in Panda to explore the other side and then under the floor without rebound kicking in. By your argument, it WAS intended to go there despite it was obviously not. How many have fallen through the floor in Adma? Clearly not supposed to happen. I could continue, but I think the point is clear. We all know that where the textures are smooth and looks like a cliff that would not be scalable/ or able to be passable, then it was intended not to go that way. In most cases this is true, but in some areas it can be glitched. RIN made it clear that if you have to deploy methods that get around what are/were intentional barriers then that is not ok.

There is A path to Gelk Fortress, but it takes a lot to get through that path. That is what was intended, not some hopscotch round-about way that is being used now.

Open word does not mean, limitless. There are clear limits on where the devs meant for players to be and not be. I would like to believe that none of us are so unreasonable to think that areas with no textures or mobs/guards are meant to be used/traveled.

I personally would argue that the manipulation you show in your video and the killing of players within Gelk Fortress is a way for AP gain/quest kills that is unfair and breaks certain mechanics of the game.

[Joxer]

I re-watched that video. I see 4...4  places that it was quite obvious that it was not intended for navigation. I didn't even count all the places it was obvious that those areas were not intended for players to be in the first place.

It maybe "easy" to manipulate the map to get around the terrain and obstacles, however, at the end of the day that looks exactly like what RIN specifically said should NOT be done.  

[Cookie]

So, I have some info that might relate to why no action has been taken by devs/GMs when it comes to this.~  On the 17th of January NCSoft KR released some devnotes and these gates that are getting bypassed were actually mentioned. I'm going to include the excerpt (translated) mentioning it as well as a direct link to the devnotes for anyone curious. 
● Removal of Gates at Yonggye Field Gates
In order to smoothly progress content throughout the Yonggye Fields, we are trying to actively enter each region by removing barriers to sections that were physically separated, especially those that were difficult to access due to gateways. .
We plan to implement an all-out war in the Baltic field by allowing battles to take place not only at the entrance of a specific area, but also to the tribal bases of Inggison/Gelkmaros.

Currently, we are preparing for the change of Yonggye Field, aiming for February 22nd (Wednesday).
Through this, we will work hard to break the fixed play of the field and expand the scale of play to create new fun.

Here's the link~

[Stormwing]

@Cookie:
Thanks for sharing.