Attack skill animation and rooting

[Lethalien-DN]

Many classes throughout Aion are made to counter each other throughout extensive use of skills (both in game and out of game). I am here to suggest something that could change PVP and PVE forever in the Aion world. All classes, whether magic or physical, have their pros and cons. I have devised a small list of skill changes that will allow new players to PVP more fluently, but this will no longer give the old players an advantage in PVP. I currently have one character of every class and recently have discovered that I have found a shortcoming in some of the melee classes. When attacking, some skills allow the character to move freely, while others root the character in place, allowing a magic class to kite or evade these attacks (especially the gladiator's AoE skills). I ask if there is a way to remove the rooting of the skill animation from the attacks, to make all attacks more mobile for the melee classes. this will provide a more all around balanced PVP and PVE experience for old and new players, without giving those who "know the tricks and tips" of the game. Many rangers and gladiators in the game have found very complicated ways around this rooting effect of the skills, but this does not help new players who are still deciding on their class of choice. removing the root during the animation will allow melee to move more freely and jump while casting skills (just as most of their other skills do allow) and catch those nasty kiters (who have many shields, evasion, and stun skills I might add). I will also add that this is done similarly to the destroyer's Tab skill in BoS (Blade and Soul) which allows them to spin freely and move while spinning to maintain damage output on the enemy. Please post your replies, and Hopefully I will get a response from any of the GMs or NC Employees

[Lethalien-DN]

In short, is it possible to change the skill animations so that they do not root a player's running or jumping ability when using them? This would help new players make slide/jump shots less of a temptation/necessity in PVP and PVE for all players, balancing the PVP system between veterans and those who are new to the game.

casting skills should be the only ones that root the player in one spot, as they require concentration (even the stat for concentration is required to cast)

(sorry for the double post, there was no edit option)

[Qahlel-KT]

37 minutes ago, Lethalien-DN said:

In short, is it possible to change the skill animations so that they do not root a player's running or jumping ability when using them? This would help new players make slide/jump shots less of a temptation/necessity in PVP and PVE for all players, balancing the PVP system between veterans and those who are new to the game.

casting skills should be the only ones that root the player in one spot, as they require concentration (even the stat for concentration is required to cast)

(sorry for the double post, there was no edit option)

This is an impossible change and will nyerk up all caster PvP. If everyone can move away from max range while you're casting, You won't hit anything unless it's instant-skills.

[Lethalien-DN]

On 10/26/2017 at 3:48 PM, Qahlel-KT said:

This is an impossible change and will nyerk up all caster PvP. If everyone can move away from max range while you're casting, You won't hit anything unless it's instant-skills.

This is not true as all casting classes have CC (crowd control) skills . Cleric, Sorcerer, Spirit Master, gunslinger and bard, all have roots and slows. Sorcerer, Gunner and Bard have sleeps, SM has fears, all of which adds to the animation rooting of a melee class, this would balance out PVP due to the magic classes high capabilities of keeping the enemy still while they do their thing.

Magic classes are OP enough as it is, its time to give melee back their competitive edge against magic classes.

[Calista-DN]

Various melee classes have skills, to some extent armor sets, and even weapons in order to help them deal with this (i.e. extendible weapons). You're talking about CC, however if we take what an example of one off the more challenging of the above scenarios, which is the sorc, let's look at the pros and cons of CC:

PRO:

- keep the enemy away, allow for potential escape or some healing

- they do have the best range of CCs and slows of all the cloth classes

CON

- breaks on damage

- damage may be decreased if CC is applied 

- CC duration is decreased in PVP

- the usefulness of multiple sleeps, if not applied carefully, can result in resists (aside from class based or other reasons for resists)

The majority of sorc skill require cast times which root the character in place, plus the larger skills have both fairly long CDs AND a  PVP damage reduction applied. Therefore, furthering increasing melee mobility while providing nothing at all to sorcs, is plainly ridiculous.  

 

Don't lump in all magic classes together. You can't compare a sorc to, for example, an AT, which is also a magic class. They don't play at all the same, they don't have the strengths or weaknesses. Neither does a SW or  an SM. I don't see that you could or should provide one way of providing balance (IF needed) that would be fair.

 

By the way, templars have received their fair share of buffs recently, I really don't see  any buff that's required to cope in in this situation.

[Lethalien-DN]

19 hours ago, Calista-DN said:

Various melee classes have skills, to some extent armor sets, and even weapons in order to help them deal with this (i.e. extendible weapons). You're talking about CC, however if we take what an example of one off the more challenging of the above scenarios, which is the sorc, let's look at the pros and cons of CC:

PRO:

- keep the enemy away, allow for potential escape or some healing

- they do have the best range of CCs and slows of all the cloth classes

CON

- breaks on damage

- damage may be decreased if CC is applied 

- CC duration is decreased in PVP

- the usefulness of multiple sleeps, if not applied carefully, can result in resists (aside from class based or other reasons for resists)

The majority of sorc skill require cast times which root the character in place, plus the larger skills have both fairly long CDs AND a  PVP damage reduction applied. Therefore, furthering increasing melee mobility while providing nothing at all to sorcs, is plainly ridiculous.  

 

Don't lump in all magic classes together. You can't compare a sorc to, for example, an AT, which is also a magic class. They don't play at all the same, they don't have the strengths or weaknesses. Neither does a SW or  an SM. I don't see that you could or should provide one way of providing balance (IF needed) that would be fair.

 

By the way, templars have received their fair share of buffs recently, I really don't see  any buff that's required to cope in in this situation.

This is a very valid point to be brought up, as yes, all magic classes are different from each other. The fact that CC's are reduced duration during PVP is a very important thing to bring up, but one thing that was not mentioned, is that all of these magic classes have roots and silences, to prevent healing, cleanse by cleric, DoT's to prevent potions from being used, the advantage of long distance, SW and SM have binds which keep melee from being able to attack, even if they are literally standing under you. all of this adds up to the melee classes abilities that allow them to chase, maybe stun the opponent and get a few hits in before they are once again, kited and CC'd to death... removing the rooting on all skills (including all magic classes instant cast skills) will allow the classes to keep up with their opponent, and possibly kill them, if they survive the initial CC.

side note; Slide-shots are already in the game via really complicated steps and perfected timing put together with low ping and high fps, changing this will only make the playing field even between pro-gamers and new players in the MMO.

[Lethalien-DN]

@Cyan do you have any opinion or thoughts you could shed onto this matter?
"My only desires are to better the playing field between all players, new and old, and to become the best Daeva I can be."

[Calista-DN]

8 hours ago, Lethalien-DN said:

This is a very valid point to be brought up, as yes, all magic classes are different from each other. The fact that CC's are reduced duration during PVP is a very important thing to bring up, but one thing that was not mentioned, is that all of these magic classes have roots and silences, to prevent healing, cleanse by cleric, DoT's to prevent potions from being used, the advantage of long distance, SW and SM have binds which keep melee from being able to attack, even if they are literally standing under you. all of this adds up to the melee classes abilities that allow them to chase, maybe stun the opponent and get a few hits in before they are once again, kited and CC'd to death... removing the rooting on all skills (including all magic classes instant cast skills) will allow the classes to keep up with their opponent, and possibly kill them, if they survive the initial CC.

side note; Slide-shots are already in the game via really complicated steps and perfected timing put together with low ping and high fps, changing this will only make the playing field even between pro-gamers and new players in the MMO.

Removing the rooting on the few skills that some classes have, again, makes no sense whatsoever. If I remain with my original example, with a couple of hits, if a sorc does not maintain distance, they are dead. the shield is gone, or they are silenced, stunned or knocked down by a variety of melee skills. Don't forget, the slows and roots can also be resisted if the melee applies certain buffs.

You seem to think that the reverse side of the coin is very easy - i.e. the odds are 100% in favour of  the magic classes. I would agree that vs a glad, I find it the easiest on my sorc, however as previously mentioned  a good glad is by no means helpless if they are smart about terrain and gear selection.

You now started introducing slide-shots, if you are seriously starting to introduce the concept that leather classes (specifically rangers) are at a disadvantage with cloth classes, then again, I would say that you are very mistaken.

[Lethalien-DN]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:08 PM, Calista-DN said:

Removing the rooting on the few skills that some classes have, again, makes no sense whatsoever. If I remain with my original example, with a couple of hits, if a sorc does not maintain distance, they are dead. the shield is gone, or they are silenced, stunned or knocked down by a variety of melee skills. Don't forget, the slows and roots can also be resisted if the melee applies certain buffs.

You seem to think that the reverse side of the coin is very easy - i.e. the odds are 100% in favour of  the magic classes. I would agree that vs a glad, I find it the easiest on my sorc, however as previously mentioned  a good glad is by no means helpless if they are smart about terrain and gear selection.

You now started introducing slide-shots, if you are seriously starting to introduce the concept that leather classes (specifically rangers) are at a disadvantage with cloth classes, then again, I would say that you are very mistaken.

I am not saying to remove literal root skills, but take for example the gladiator's AoEs, and note how they stop the player's movement just to perform the spin, although many players who have played for years taught themselves how to slide-shot, which negates this effect. My suggestion is to remove this effect as it creates an unfair balance between old and new players, both melee and magic. (I also play all classes currently in Aion, above lvl68, so I know what each class can do.) this is what makes sense to me, not removing any actual skill roots (if this is what you are thinking I am saying) all this would do is remove the necessity to slide-shot for new players to the game.

I appreciate as many refutes as I can possibly obtain so that I may either disprove them, or change my thoughts accordingly, so thank you

[Calista-DN]

9 hours ago, Lethalien-DN said:

I am not saying to remove literal root skills, but take for example the gladiator's AoEs, and note how they stop the player's movement just to perform the spin, although many players who have played for years taught themselves how to slide-shot, which negates this effect. My suggestion is to remove this effect as it creates an unfair balance between old and new players, both melee and magic. (I also play all classes currently in Aion, above lvl68, so I know what each class can do.) this is what makes sense to me, not removing any actual skill roots (if this is what you are thinking I am saying) all this would do is remove the necessity to slide-shot for new players to the game.

I appreciate as many refutes as I can possibly obtain so that I may either disprove them, or change my thoughts accordingly, so thank you

Thank you, I appreciate the clarification. However, I would still disagree- if I understand correctly, for 2 reasons:

1- you're saying that there is an unfair balance between old an new players- well no, if it's due to learning how to slide-shot, then new players should put in the time to learn that skill

2- if this is removed from several melee skills, it still has the net affect of increasing melee mobility -  that would remove the advantage of ranged classes (again I'm thinking of sorc) that have to stand and cast, and are immobile for cast times. So this should be balanced out.

[Lethalien-DN]

On 11/9/2017 at 9:43 PM, Calista-DN said:

Thank you, I appreciate the clarification. However, I would still disagree- if I understand correctly, for 2 reasons:

1- you're saying that there is an unfair balance between old an new players- well no, if it's due to learning how to slide-shot, then new players should put in the time to learn that skill

2- if this is removed from several melee skills, it still has the net affect of increasing melee mobility -  that would remove the advantage of ranged classes (again I'm thinking of sorc) that have to stand and cast, and are immobile for cast times. So this should be balanced out.

I understand point 1, and this does make sense as it is a learn able skill, but doing this would remove the necessity to learn the slide-shot skill in the first place.

point 2 I would like to restate as I intended all classes to have this change, including ranged classes, the only skills that would not be changed would be the casting skills, which applies to melee as well.

thank you for the feedback

[Lethalien-DN]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:14 AM, Lethalien-DN said:

I understand point 1, and this does make sense as it is a learn able skill, but doing this would remove the necessity to learn the slide-shot skill in the first place.

point 2 I would like to restate as I intended all classes to have this [locking of player position] change when using attack skills, including ranged classes, the only skills that would not be changed would be the casting skills, which applies to [all classes,] melee as well.

thank you for the feedback

@Cyan Does the above quote of myself hold any merit or possibility to be created or changed within any update such as after 5.8-6.0?
(I understand that the skills have been changed before such as when stigmas and racial skills were redistributed to be equal for all players, this would pull a similar effect but rather on new and old players)