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Arhangelos-KT

7.2 new caps for C.speed A.speed (Kaisinel and others)

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Previously a.speed and c.speed caps were 50%, so if you had 1.0 casting speed normally, the max c.speed cap was -50% cast time so it would go down to 0.5, and if you had 2.2 attack speed, your attack speed could go as low as 1.1 With Kaisinel, up to 7.0 the caps were better, the number could go as low as -60% (so we got a 10% better cap) both for casting speed and attack speed.

Example:
My casting speed with all legendaries would go as low as 0.5 only, no matter if I used Tahabata/Viola or Bolvig (35% vs 27% casting speed), but with Kaisinel it would go as low as 0.4.
My attack speed is base of 2.2 and with legendary transform for attack speed +wow + 5.8 spellbook with attack speed, I could only get it as low as 1.1, but with Kaisinel it could go as low as 0.9

~~~

7.2: The change is now everyone has a -60% casting speed cap and -50% attack speed cap, no matter what transform you use.

So I can get 0.4 casting speed with either Tahabata or Viola or Kaisinel, while attack speed is at maxed at -50% even with Kaisinel, so my attack speed can never go lower than 1.1 whatever transform buff or weapon I use for attack speed.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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Casting speed cap was 75% for forever, since they nerf/capped it back when Asmo Sorcs could instant cast with BoQ,

The caps in Korea using Ultimate transformations are 60% attk with Kaisnel, and I assume 85% casting with Marchutan, have never actually seen this confirmed. I do know that Marchutan allowed players to break the casting speed cap.

I noticed on my sorc that using veille plus BoQ I was casting much faster then ususal, Flame fusion was pretty much insta cast. So this might be a bug.

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Germ-DN   
1 hour ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

Previously a.speed and c.speed caps were 50%, so if you had 1.0 casting speed normally, the max c.speed cap was -50% cast time so it would go down to 0.5, and if you had 2.2 attack speed, your attack speed could go as low as 1.1 With Kaisinel, up to 7.0 the caps were better, the number could go as low as -60% (so we got a 10% better cap) both for casting speed and attack speed.

Example:
My casting speed with all legendaries would go as low as 0.5 only, no matter if I used Tahabata/Viola or Bolvig (35% vs 27% casting speed), but with Kaisinel it would go as low as 0.4.
My attack speed is base of 2.2 and with legendary transform for attack speed +wow + 5.8 spellbook with attack speed, I could only get it as low as 1.1, but with Kaisinel it could go as low as 0.9

~~~

7.2: The change is now everyone has a -60% casting speed cap and -50% attack speed cap, no matter what transform you use.

So I can get 0.4 casting speed with either Tahabata or Viola or Kaisinel, while attack speed is at maxed at -50% even with Kaisinel, so my attack speed can never go lower than 1.1 whatever transform buff or weapon I use for attack speed.

Idk how you can only reach 0.4 with Kaisinel you have to be either missing 4% title / 20% weapon on cast speed I can reach 0.3 cast without Kaisinel with some tweaks

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1 hour ago, Germ-DN said:

Idk how you can only reach 0.4 with Kaisinel you have to be either missing 4% title / 20% weapon on cast speed I can reach 0.3 cast without Kaisinel with some tweaks

I have 20% weapon, Aion's Chosen title and there is nothing that can make c.speed more than that. Even with SW buff or anything, the number is 0.4 max. It is the same with Viola and Kaisinel and there is an obvious difference in the c.speed on them, I can use a candy too with a little bit of additional c.speed and a c.speed card from an old event. Same, max is 0.4

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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18 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

I have 20% weapon, Aion's Chosen title and there is nothing that can make c.speed more than that. Even with SW buff or anything, the number is 0.4 max. It is the same with Viola and Kaisinel and there is an obvious difference in the c.speed on them, I can use a candy too with a little bit of additional c.speed and a c.speed card from an old event. Same, max is 0.4

LomAvdx.png

This is on my SM with Viola/2% Title/4% Candy/20% Book/8% gloves, puts me at 69% (B|) the game rounds up to 0.3

The cap is 75% which still shows as 0.3, in Korea Marchutan shows it at 0.2.

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Germ-DN   
5 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

I have 20% weapon, Aion's Chosen title and there is nothing that can make c.speed more than that. Even with SW buff or anything, the number is 0.4 max. It is the same with Viola and Kaisinel and there is an obvious difference in the c.speed on them, I can use a candy too with a little bit of additional c.speed and a c.speed card from an old event. Same, max is 0.4

Yeah you're just wrong though 10aa17c76f.jpg

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Yes, I did try it with a candy and some other event items and it went to 0.3. Strange it never went so low before.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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Seems like Marchutan is going to be more important than I thought, it has that extra 5% c.speed more than kaisinel and less attack speed. otherwise we will have to run around like fennec foxes or pandas. Attack speed wise, I cannot get it as low as 0.9 like it used to, so that changed as well.

TDitvg5.jpg

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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9 hours ago, Germ-DN said:

Yeah you're just wrong though 10aa17c76f.jpg

Honestly, I think it's just a graphical bug he's seeing.  The cast speed and attack speed stats may not always register all or some short term buffs though the benefit is still there and it does seem to round up/down most times when displaying. The EU guy that demonstrated most of the changes in the 6.0 reboot to the dmg formula calculations as a result of the stat changes also had a similar bug (his showed 0.5) when he performed the cast speed test on his cleric using the 3sec cast single target big heal.  You can see what I mean here.... And YES the cast speed cap is still 75%, I have not seen any proof that it can go beyond it, but since Kaisinel is proven to be able to exceed cap, i don't see why the caster ultimate can't as well.

 

Edited by Malachyte-KT

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Honestly, the casting/attack speed and run speed on transformations need to be reverted.  I can understand why the other stats on transforms were pretty much halved originally if only because they wanted to keep progression pace very low, this also explains why we never got legendary transform options from golden ingots in golden sands store as well as the low ultimate drop rates on gear (I hear in KR and EU that 1 ultimate was guaranteed per run in PVE instances).  We normalized the drop rates  for us towards the end in the 6.7 patch (we skipped 6.5).  This also explains why they nerfed the drop rates again for 7.x here in NA. That or NCSoft West is ran by actual real life greedy Shugos.  I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt on this at least because then the stat changes/rebalance fits. The above would also explain why the stats on transformations were raised again by 25% (we're still not the max stats transforms can give like in KR/EU) in 7.2.  Higher gear like T2 would need some higher stats on transforms to at least slightly keep pace and they are trying to reflect this increase.

 

However, the nerf to cast speed and boon to run speed is still a major imbalance toward the casting classes.  Melee classes can still hit their attack speed cap and even with the contracts fixed we'd still not hit ours so easily which is fine but that was intended.  The added run speed buff to transforms you may think you love as a caster is less beneficial to us and a very big boon and advantage to melee classes that do not have to stop to cast skills constantly.  Our higher cast speed cap of 75% was implemented instead of capping ours at 50% like Melee classes BECAUSE we have to stop and cast constantly. The run speeds also were balanced with this in mind.  Higher casting/attack speed normally = lower run speed or some other big stat like the corresponding attack/crit stat on the transformations.  But as it stands, casters are at a disadvantage.

 

Also as an aside, if you want to experience what our casting potential should be, it seems that the Legendary Transparent Transformation potions somehow retained their original untouched stats.  Tahabata for instance s the original 45% cast speed. I'm sure NCSoft West will patch this soon but I'd honestly like them to experience just how much they are hurting casters.  Honestly, I'm shocked at why the rest of the caster community and even melee community isn't more up in arms about the disadvantage casters get- casters for obvious reasons but melee because any victory from a spell casting class should have an asterisk by it as you competing against someone with a great handicap.

 

Here is the link in case my imbedding doesn't take.

https://imgur.com/jL4QYcT

Edited by Malachyte-KT

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If you want to test the un-nerfed transformations, go to Genesis Arena. There you can buy most legendary and both Ultimate transformations for less then 40k Kinah. The potions have the original stats.

Both Kaisnel and Marchutan break the Attack speed cap but not the Casting speed cap so either they changed it for our client or this was how it always was. I searched for video evidence of Marchutan breaking Casting speed cap but couldn't find anything.

Maybe I just imagined seeing the increased cap on Marchutan, it doesn't make sense to me that the caster Ultimate breaks the Attack speed cap, but :shrug:

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Germ-DN   
8 minutes ago, Violeta-KT said:

If you want to test the un-nerfed transformations, go to Genesis Arena. There you can buy most legendary and both Ultimate transformations for less then 40k Kinah. The potions have the original stats.

Both Kaisnel and Marchutan break the Attack speed cap but not the Casting speed cap so either they changed it for our client or this was how it always was. I searched for video evidence of Marchutan breaking Casting speed cap but couldn't find anything.

Maybe I just imagined seeing the increased cap on Marchutan, it doesn't make sense to me that the caster Ultimate breaks the Attack speed cap, but :shrug:

The current cap for Cast is 0.4 and it gets un-capped with Kaisinel/Marchutan to 0.3 5026dec2cb.jpg

Edited by Germ-DN

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21 minutes ago, Germ-DN said:

The current cap for Cast is 0.4 and it gets un-capped with Kaisinel/Marchutan to 0.3

Huh? Aren't you just contradicting what you said earlier in the thread?

18 hours ago, Germ-DN said:

Idk how you can only reach 0.4 with Kaisinel you have to be either missing 4% title / 20% weapon on cast speed I can reach 0.3 cast without Kaisinel with some tweaks

I already put a pick of me at 0.3 Cast without an Ultimate transformation, so I'm not sure what you mean.

uGHtY1y.jpg

but yeah I found video evidence that Marchutan breaks Attack speed cap in Korea so the Genesis Arena potions are working un-nerfed, like they do in Korea.

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Germ-DN   
3 minutes ago, Violeta-KT said:

Huh? Aren't you just contradicting what you said earlier in the thread?

I already put a pick of me at 0.3 Cast without an Ultimate transformation, so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Reaching 0.3 with a 9% speed gloves doesn't really matter cause you wont be using it in PvP and yes you can reach 0.3 cast without Ultimate transformations but that won't be the case forever since you will run out of candy/anything extra that we aren't able to acquire anymore

I'm only able to reach 0.3 cast with 4% candy and <Icerunerk's Invigorating Cookie> and once the Cookies run out I will be back at 0.4 with no way of breaking it except when I have ( Viola/Pure void buff up)

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Well my original post was done with a visual bug for sure, I remember perfectly using my 5.8 weapon that has +20% attack speed and staying still at 1.1 attack speed (I use that weapon inside luna daily, it has a godstone and hits faster the instant skills and when the godstone procs it does insane dmg).

Right now I am back to what I always saw. Previously though, before 7.2 no matter the amount of buffs I had, I was never able to reach 0.3 c.speed. Now I tested it and it works like it seems it was supposed to.

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22 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

Well my original post was done with a visual bug for sure, I remember perfectly using my 5.8 weapon that has +20% attack speed and staying still at 1.1 attack speed (I use that weapon inside luna daily, it has a godstone and hits faster the instant skills and when the godstone procs it does insane dmg).

Right now I am back to what I always saw. Previously though, before 7.2 no matter the amount of buffs I had, I was never able to reach 0.3 c.speed. Now I tested it and it works like it seems it was supposed to.

cuz casting speed buffs dont show in ur profile status

casting is 0.2, as far i know, i dont know if marchutan makes u break the cap of casting speed, prob it doesn't, anyways our marchutan is only 45% cast speed

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unknown.png

i used the potion with 45% cast speed from prestige supplies + candy from crucible (3% cast atk speed) + old handguards with 9% cast speed + 4% from title + 12 % from mace

Edited by Zombiex-DN

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