Nalariel Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Hi @Rin Congrats for being a new CM and welcome to Aion I hopefully you will pass this information to Korea If we looking at aion historic profit the highest point was about 4.6 after that the profit never go back near to that level again. It's really bad when we entering 4.7 era which introduce unlimited enchantment my point is Aion is a PC game not mobile you can't turn it into mobile and expected it would do same profit as mobile counterpart. Aion was fine with skin selling, amulet xp etc until mobile show their profit and NC got greed and tried to turn Aion into a mobile game. You have to accept as PC it can only do just that. Leave Aion as PC game and go milk new game such as Aion 2 as fully mobile as whatever you want. I didn't play Guild War 2 so I don't know what payment method there but I heard it's not p2w and they doing the best of all PC games excepted Lineage 2 but Lineage 2 is bear while Guild War 2 is bull. https://kr.ncsoft.com/en/ir/irArchive/earningsRelease.do So my point is don't try to make it more p2w it won't be better only get worse. The harder you try to grab money the slipper money thru your hand. Even classic sale lower now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 @Nalariel-KTThe thing is the amount of people participating in content is what made it fun back in the day. That time period was very p2w between tempering and instance reset scrolls and bonified boxes(enchant stones+composite stones) on the cash shop as well as being able to buy supplements/skins and so on for kinah to sell straight from the cash shop you could get everything you needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 What are you trying to imply squid ? that p2w is not influence the current state of game now ? I'm not convinced by that. I truly believed p2w is a major force contributing the game to badly state if we don't have p2w we wouldn't losing people the game won't be dead or we don't have to delete maps or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Nalariel said: I truly believed p2w is a major force contributing the game to badly state if we don't have p2w we wouldn't losing people the game won't be dead or we don't have to delete maps or so. You said "If we looking at aion historic profit the highest point was about 4.6 after that the profit never go back near to that level again." The period you are saying was Aion's peak in terms of $'s created for NCsoft was in-fact a p2w period. The only real major difference is how generous they were with events back during that period compared to now. If you are saying that p2w is the reason for Aion doing so poorly but quote a p2w period of Aion then i feel like it is a bit of a contradiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 4.6 wasn't height of p2w rather it's the starting point of p2w. If p2w wasn't driving force Aion to this state then I have no idea what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 This is why i quoted Quote If we looking at aion historic profit the highest point was about 4.6 after that the profit never go back near to that level again. Historically 4.6 was a p2w patch that is what i am saying. You are saying p2w is the problem but then ignoring the fact that ncsofts most profitable period was also a p2w period. You even just said Quote 4.6 wasn't height of p2w rather it's the starting point of p2w. If p2w wasn't driving force Aion to this state then I have no idea what is. You even said it yourself here it was not the height but it was a p2w point...their most successful p2w period at that. f2p players had a chance because there were playable options there are no playable options now days to catch up it is just hope an event has what you need in it. That is what sets Aion of today and Aion of the past apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 You twisted my words and misleading let me say it once and clear 4.6 was mild(soft) p2w and people ok with that after that it became excessive p2w and aion never recovered. I'm anti excessive p2w games if you're supporting excessive p2w it's fine with me but you can't convinced me to agree this is right thing to do. Also I anti P2E(Play to earn) if you can earn money in game it's no longer a game it's a work and fun gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I am not trying to twist your words but i feel your opinion on this matter lacks clarity. By this i mean you are ignoring the fact that the NA region had 10s of 1000s of cash shop items injected in to our economy through CC hackers. EU hated the p2w tempering solutions and the ability to buy feli socketing and so on while us in NA saw no issue with it due to the amount that were being sold at the time by the CC hackers...Hell i had over 1500 tempering at one point that i was storing because the CC hacker would sell people 100 for 20m ea if you bought in a stack. Along with having several 100 mythic and eternal feli socketing bundles i can safely say that the NA region did not have to deal with the p2w content because the affect of these cc hackers lasted in to 5.0. When the supply ran out tempering on Siel was going for over 250m EA. Ignoring a crucial fact like this is huge when it comes to thinking a patch is not p2w. Even the best event the alchemy event during 4.6 would inject between 10-20 tempering per 8 characters. Less than 10% of the population would of had +7 plumes if there was no CC hackers and barely anyone would of had enchanted accessories if they were not paying. I played with so many euro players who fled EU servers because it was to hard to get these materials in their region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasoulaaaa Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4.6 wasn't a mild p2w patch you could buy nearly everything in the shop from scrolls , pots to mounts you also had tempering for accs and plums, you could also say that at release of retal was the most popular version of aion but with poor management and lack of release with new content the game went down hill rapidly just like now with aion with lack of communication( witch seams to be improving thanks to rin) it's a little to late with the bs Sr rake bans to the lack of fixes to the forts that lasted months. We could have had a great long lasting clasic aion if the candy situation was better communicated to us at release faster bans on bots and ap traders that left many with a sour taste with the lack of action. Drop rates that match the population. More skins that we could buy( I would be spending more that I am if we have weekly updates to the store.) Even the last dp event is horrible with regards on how they could have monetized the dp reset scroll during the event, with how the game is managed it feels like the support team, gms( yay to rin playing the game even though she plays asmo) doest play the game and doesn't under stand the game it self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Ok point taken. But still does that make excessive p2w more appealing ? From what I understanding you saying p2w is fine as long as there're events in game that keep boosting baseline population ? Isn't what they doing now ? and why it doesn't work right now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nalariel said: Ok point taken. But still does that make excessive p2w more appealing ? From what I understanding you saying p2w is fine as long as there're events in game that keep boosting baseline population ? Isn't what they doing now ? and why it doesn't work right now ? Nah i actually hate that style that is the reason i quit Aion because that is the style it took and then if you look at NA now they even dropped that so no one can even do that now days unless the developers screw up and not knowing what rewards they put in an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 About candy this showing NC doesn't care about players ,why players should continuing support if massive anti candy voices were left unheard. NC had a chance to redeem themselves and they destroyed that chance even some pro retail players willing to give it a try but anything kaboom classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasoulaaaa Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It doesn't work at all that's why most of us left aion in that period was the extreme p2w and that's why we came back to aion was the lack of it, the only reason aion is failing is the lack of support and management from ncsoft from release to now( and the lack of good skins) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 I found out from a life in 4.6 they doing FOMO stuff too ,I ignored all events I feel happier and doesn't care the world. I feeling I'm controlling what I wanna do not game controlling me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasoulaaaa Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Nalariel said: About candy this showing NC doesn't care about players ,why players should continuing support if massive anti candy voices were left unheard. NC had a chance to redeem themselves and they destroyed that chance even some pro retail players willing to give it a try but anything kaboom classic. With the candy's it was in the kr version of release and we were getting everything that they had, they should had told us straight up what was coming so we could temper expectations with the release of clasic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Tasoulaaaa said: With the candy's it was in the kr version of release and we were getting everything that they had, they should had told us straight up what was coming so we could temper expectations with the release of clasic It's same thing as NC going to tell players they going to do NFT right now ,I believed they won't announced it. If I remember no wrong at point of releasing 6.0 someone asked Hime that will they update skin lists in luna and her answer was "OH YEAH THAT BABY GETTING OVERHAULLLLLLLED!!" it's not a lie but quite opposite what people expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Nalariel said: I found out from a life in 4.6 they doing FOMO stuff too ,I ignored all events I feel happier and doesn't care the world. I feeling I'm controlling what I wanna do not game controlling me. 4.6's core gameplay design was still solid. If you exclude composite manastones and tempering solution and reset scrolls, Everything else in the game was obtainable and crafting was still relevant. If you look at todays core gameplay loop it really is not like that you have to suffer till the company gives blesses you with an event this is why it comes back to the core gameplay design that is flawed in current Aion not its payment model. You could fix all these problems with less than 15 changes to Aion but we are not the target audience for the game those who are willing to drop $1000 to get 1 BiS item day of release is the audience they are targeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 I wanna hear about less than 15 changes to fix Aion. At least @Rin can send it to Korea. It doesn't matter if they going to do what you said or not. If your idea is good then it deserves to be heard. And telling Korea players ain't stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Nalariel said: I wanna hear about less than 15 changes to fix Aion. At least @Rin can send it to Korea. It doesn't matter if they going to do what you said or not. If your idea is good then it deserves to be heard. And telling Korea players ain't stupid. NCwest do not have the power to implement the changes so it is kinda pointless unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 I didn't expected it would change something right now. I only think if you got idea it deserves to be hear by Korea. I'm sure @Rin can send our opinions to Korea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It would be cool but ultimately it is NCsofts company and they run things the way they want we the only thing we can do as consumers is not support the content we dislike. As much as i would love rin to pass it on we know from past experiences they are not interested in what the NA community has to say. Beyond that lets be real what i may consider a cool update to the game others who want event driven progression may consider changes i would implement bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Ok if you say so I won't urging anymore. Still @Rin I want you to send my opinion regardless I want to be annoying to them than keep silence and take their shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aion Team Rin Posted February 17, 2022 Aion Team Share Posted February 17, 2022 Hey Nalariel and Squid! This is still a very good discussion, so thank you both for having it. This, along with any other threads and feedback I see (even if I cannot respond to all—it's always a busy day!) are always being document and added to my reports. I cannot promise anything other than that—as you both know it is out of my hands—but I do read over and try to get everyone's information in weekly. Please do keep the discussions coming, even if I can't respond! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 Hi @Rin thank you for confirmed that you're reading and willing to send our opinions back to Korea. I think NC don't care much at retail right now my suggest is create an experimental server where most enchantment items dropping in game and shop just fill it with xp amulet, skins, instance reset scrolls. And now we can determine if p2w feature is really negative affect to the server or positive. We have to also change to all items up to ancient grade tradable , brokerable, remodel more than once. Just experimental I don't think NCsoft will care if it more kaboom than it already is. Along the way players can keep suggesting and changing you can close this server whenever you want it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adla Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 14 hours ago, Nalariel said: Hi @Rin thank you for confirmed that you're reading and willing to send our opinions back to Korea. I think NC don't care much at retail right now my suggest is create an experimental server where most enchantment items dropping in game and shop just fill it with xp amulet, skins, instance reset scrolls. And now we can determine if p2w feature is really negative affect to the server or positive. We have to also change to all items up to ancient grade tradable , brokerable, remodel more than once. Just experimental I don't think NCsoft will care if it more kaboom than it already is. Along the way players can keep suggesting and changing you can close this server whenever you want it doesn't matter. Is this about retail or classic? And the expiremental server sounds like a PTS (Private Test Server), that I'm not sure would be useful givne our populations. Although pay2w isn't cool, at the end of the day there is always going to be RMT. Our economies are already so bloated on classic, that the real solution to stopping this would be events that can stimulate the markets without elements of pay2w (being able to buy event items to increase your chances). More events with more rewards helps even the playing ground for everyone, while not allowing major RMTers to abuse the system. On classic, as it stands, there isn't a lot of actual "pay 2 win" outside of RMT/candies and I don't think the candies are currently relevant. As you can't buy AP gear, there are no wraps, no tempering... Touching on tempering, I myself actually liked tempering, but not to the degree it turned into. And continuously adding things, like bracelets and plumes, was a bad call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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