Pipum-EK Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hello all, I just wanted to take a few minutes to write down a few concerns my friends and I have regarding the repercussions of implementing the candies system without any restriction. This must be a repetitive topic, but still I would like to share this with you all to create a proper request where all the concerns can be addressed and reviewed by the NC business team. One week ago, classic was launched, lot of people created their characters and started to play, but they found a particular item that raised a lot of concerns.. I'm talking about the candies. Even though candies are not a big impact in function to the kinah (I believe they implemented it to stop bots from selling kinah), the action is currently a terrible decision and let me share my thoughts of why I'm thinking this... Candies fixes the price of the kinah... yes, but it also provides a way to dynamically inject kinah into the server without being generated, when a bot sells kinah, it has to generate it by following the existing features of the game, but in this case, the currency is being generated by system, and this is a big error in terms of business/development as per my understanding. That said, I'd highly recommend business/development teams take a look to this matter and reconsider the purpose of this feature, because I feel it will create more problems than solutions. We are still in time to correct the market, hope we can receive a proper answer from your end. To players: Please be respectful while replying in this topic, feel free to share your opinion in a good manner and lets deliver a consolidated community answer to the BO/DEV's. Thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pewpew Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Good idea to express your concerns but honestly the reason why it’s an issue for concern is not clearly outlined. saying that it’s a “big error” wouldn’t be enough to act upon - what do you see happening if nothing is done? do you have any options or suggestions for changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipum-EK Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Guest Pewpew said: Good idea to express your concerns but honestly the reason why it’s an issue for concern is not clearly outlined. saying that it’s a “big error” wouldn’t be enough to act upon - what do you see happening if nothing is done? do you have any options or suggestions for changes? I believe I've outlined the main problem regarding this matter "the injection of artificial kinah", we can expect to see the same concept we see in real life when money is being generated from nothing (economic inflation). Regarding my suggestions: I'd recommend either removing the candies/making them untradeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Noone Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I 100% agree. First off the market is so saturated with high priced items to compensate for everyone who sells candies who can spend the kinah. For those that don’t sell the candy, you can’t buy anything because the market it so outrageously priced. Does it break the game, no. Does it make it unplayable for anyone who does not pay to get candies right now, who want to upgrade their gear or buy some manastones, absolutely. I would say later when the market is established and the server population decreases at little, maybe some mechanic to fluctuate the prices will be good. But at this point, you are making the game unplayable for anyone who can’t afford to shell out more than the subscription. We are already PAYING to play a game that went free to play. Why are you trying to suck more out of us. If we want cosmetics, sure bring it! Change character names and looks, sure that’s fine. Even the wings, ok fine, but selling useless candy to a shop for instant 1 mill everyday and making the economy unstable, you are going to lose players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aion Team Arctic Posted June 29, 2021 Aion Team Share Posted June 29, 2021 Thanks @Pipum-EK for encouraging a respectful thread. To help facilitate productive discussion, I've removed a comment that contained grossly inaccurate misinformation about the Flying Daeva Set, which in fact contains a set of unsellable items. We will continue monitoring this thread and its comments, and appreciate the discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoahra-DN Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, Kibbelz said: Thanks @Pipum-EK for encouraging a respectful thread. To help facilitate productive discussion, I've removed a comment that contained grossly inaccurate misinformation about the Flying Daeva Set, which in fact contains a set of unsellable items. We will continue monitoring this thread and its comments, and appreciate the discourse. In respect to this, with no intention of starting any arguments or flame wars, I have discussed this with many of my Aion friends as well and we all agree we would like to see the candies and the $30 Daeva Pass go away or at least 100% agree we all would play a new server with none of these things implemented and is subscription only. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hi @Pipum-EK and everyone who may concern. I got a single question to everyone in here ,how we can respect developers and staff who're working under NC when they never respected us and our opinions ? They cherry picking only opinions that benefit to them. We can say anything as long as it's not negative to NC ? I believe end result is true intension and only thing that matter not just some polite and fancy words. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pleb Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Pharoahra-DN said: In respect to this, with no intention of starting any arguments or flame wars, I have discussed this with many of my Aion friends as well and we all agree we would like to see the candies and the $30 Daeva Pass go away or at least 100% agree we all would play a new server with none of these things implemented and is subscription only. Thanks. And would you really trust them to keep their hand off of it, and for how long given past experiences? When inevitably the population decreases, where do you think all the sea life will pour into, either thru merges, or server transfers? @Kibbelz You don't need to censor misinformation when you can just set it straight with official statement. Censorship always looks bad for the censor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipum-EK Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Nalariel-KT said: Hi @Pipum-EK and everyone who may concern. I got a single question to everyone in here ,how we can respect developers and staff who're working under NC when they never respected us and our opinions ? They cherry picking only opinions that benefit to them. We can say anything as long as it's not negative to NC ? I believe end result is true intension and only thing that matter not just some polite and fancy words. Thank you. Hi @Nalariel-KT, I do understand your point of view, but please understand that there are several processes that a developer/staff must follow in order to deliver a product. For example: Even though staff/developers want to change something, probably they'll need to escalate it to Korea in order to change it (this is just my assumption, please take it with tweezers) As a customer I'm just trying to point down all the concerns but in a good manner to ensure the communication goes in the right way. In my experience, all the developers always want to see their product successfully working, but sometimes there are impediments in the road that difficult the things. That's why I created this post, to take away all the past discrepancies and bring a set of opportunities to correct the situation according to the community needs. Thanks for your reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hi @Pipum-EK, Do you remember a big fire accident that burned some internet datacenter in France back in March this year ? (OVH) CEO of that company keep posting update of the progress like every 5-10 min about the option planning even delayed schedule. Do we have anything like that ? I even sent a private message to a CM here for a month and never it got read. Candies issue was resolved by decision is final deal with it. Do I see any good will from that ? I'm sorry but I seeing this thread nothing more but PR marketing for NC. If NC willing to be good it needs to do more not just asking for polite and respectful and end result is nothing change. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ahlyxia Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Kibbelz said: Thanks @Pipum-EK for encouraging a respectful thread. To help facilitate productive discussion, I've removed a comment that contained grossly inaccurate misinformation about the Flying Daeva Set, which in fact contains a set of unsellable items. We will continue monitoring this thread and its comments, and appreciate the discourse. This is not a matter of inaccurate facts or misinformation. The community has been saying since the very start that the implementation of these candies and users being able to gain advantages through real-world-transactions was something that they did not want. If you want to keep this game running you have got to do something, NOW, before the entire player base decides to leave. This is a significant problem that the majority of them feel is not being addressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Medicated. Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 While I understand people love to complain because they have no money to buy candies you can't just ignore the overall effect. The fact is if you play the game and know what to do you will have far more money with candies in the game than without the inflation is something you can take advantage of too ya know. People sell candy that you can flip every day and make 25k kinah per for doing absolutely nothing so that's 250k free per day ...without spending a cent. People will always have more than you in a game , if you are in the top % of players you are getting rich from candy users without spending a cent. It really boils down to get good, sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I suggest we should locked out those peasants from playing the game we don't need them those poor filthy peasants in our games. We should rise basic package to 200$ each month so only noble elites can enjoying pure Aion as original developers envisioned. Those sweating labour don't need to play games they should go eat bread if they can not then let them eat cake. Sorry but I can't really resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastekkel Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Nalariel-KT said: Hi @Pipum-EK and everyone who may concern. I got a single question to everyone in here ,how we can respect developers and staff who're working under NC when they never respected us and our opinions ? They cherry picking only opinions that benefit to them. We can say anything as long as it's not negative to NC ? I believe end result is true intension and only thing that matter not just some polite and fancy words. Thank you. Because being respectful is the foundation. Just like in real life, being rude and disrespectful won't get you anywhere (most of the times). When it comes to classic Aion, Kibbelz has been nothing but respectful and very open about the issues that we have. Sure, there's a chance that the issues that he raises won't get dealt with, but is that really worth blasting him for? Ofcourse not. I'm one of those older players that has plenty of money to spend but I won't out of principle. I'd see myself buying a season pass + subscription if there was no further P2W. But now I won't be buying anything other then a sub. Always vote with your wallet and never forget, there are plenty of other games out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalariel Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Well yes but remember you will respect someone only if they respect you too you don't respect someone if they never care your opinion or take your opinion seriously. First step to manipulate someone is ignore person you don't like and their anger will keep increasing to the point it explode then show everybody that person is mad is wrong human got perception that an aggressor always wrong without checking back story. I feel like you try to downplay this into I got a problem with @Kibbelz personally but no I actually got a problem with NC not @Kibbelz who created this shady business monetized. I never said @Kibbelz is the main problem but rather NC is causing this. I'm sure there will be more deceptions and misleading targets after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JustAthought Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Please @Kibbelz for all that is holy, the solution to this problem is to just launch a new fresh server with no pass or shop. Just like the 2009 launch, my account, my characters, my $15 sub per month and the good old bots for all i care. That's it. Just name it oldschool classic aion for all intents and purposes. Either you like it or not the pass has already damaged the game. I agree that in 2-3 months (IF! the rewards in the PAID pass remain the same), the pass would be worthless and non impactful. But as of now, in the start of the new servers, it creates a HUGE gap between the people who have it (or even paid more to unlock all the rewards from the start) and those who don't. As we all understand the greater offender are the candies which either should be unsellable/untradable or sell for 1 kinah(i won't analyze why spending real money to get kinah is problematic, anyone who is on the same page will agree, or else bots and rmt selllers wouldn't be illegal ) Want to get easy money fast? Either go farm it up yourself with whatever tools you have (mobs,gather,craft) or buy it from a seller (if they aren't getting banned) and risk a ban for yourself. The second offender are the 30%spd, 9% atk spd/cast spd scrolls. Automatically anyone who has those scrolls, by default, has a significantly higher chance to win in open world pvp. By default you can't catch up or escape from someone that uses those scrolls which gives them a free pass to do whatever they like either hunt down others or disengage from a grim situation. And please don't start with " but you can craft the same scrolls in the game just do it". People were running with those scrolls since day 2. To craft such scrolls you need 1) the recipe, 2) alchemy 380, and 3) aethertap 300. All those 3 cost kinah (kinah [and TIME] that someone at 20-25 lvl WON'T have) and you need to be higher than 35(?) lvl to drop the recipe. The battle pass users use those scrolls from lvl 20 in pvp (day 2!), while the average user has the lesser variant scrolls. Now guess who has the upper hand in open world pvp. I am already lvl 33 and i can clearly see the impact of those scrolls in play. And if you go one step further let's guess who accumulates faster and easily AP from the pvp. I don't know if it's server specific but the majority of the rifters are people who use those scrolls since the second day of the server to have the advantage over the others. An advantage that is not equally distributed among the players but only those who buy the pass. Let me emphasize here that it's NOT the PRICE of the pass (it could be $30,$50,$80 or either $100 for all i care), because as you already said multiple times it's OPTIONAL for anyone who WANTS to support the game. What is NOT optional and fair is the chance to be on an equal footing with your adversary and believe me there were MANY times that i had the upper hand in 1v1s, but you know 30% speed scrolls while i could use 10% ones, ain't life a B! Really interested in any responses in this thread especially from @Kibbelz , either a negative one for a new server or a hopeful one (at least communicate it with the team). I don't know how costly could a new server be, but believe me there are many people , me included, who will abandon their characters and start anew in a server free of all those things. Best Regards, H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastekkel Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 53 minutes ago, Nalariel-KT said: Well yes but remember you will respect someone only if they respect you too you don't respect someone if they never care your opinion or take your opinion seriously. First step to manipulate someone is ignore person you don't like and their anger will keep increasing to the point it explode then show everybody that person is mad is wrong human got perception that an aggressor always wrong without checking back story. Oh, I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm just as annoyed by the whole situation as anyone else. I'm saying that if you truly believe that NCsoft and or it's CM doesn't give a damn you should not be playing this game. No game is worth getting that annoyed over it. No game. Voice your opinion respectfully and vote with your wallet is all you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amaterino Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Are candies good and make the game better? No. What are they good for then? Hastening your leveling process and getting easy kinah, upsetting the economy of the game, benefiting the companys wealth and pleasing their share holders. Which of those 2 is better to have? A good healthy game and in the end, make more money (because happy customers are more inclined to pay for your fair product)? @kibbelz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suru Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I'm gonna be honest. There is not a single person with the power to change this situation reading this thread, or even the forums at all. The mods are there to provide you with a sense of community and to stop any comments that reflect poorly on the company. They cannot and will not escalate your concerns to someone that has the power to change any of this, and in the off chance that they did - it would be laughed at and ignored. Sincerely, Suru. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suru Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 12 hours ago, Nalariel-KT said: Hi @Pipum-EK and everyone who may concern. I got a single question to everyone in here ,how we can respect developers and staff who're working under NC when they never respected us and our opinions ? They cherry picking only opinions that benefit to them. We can say anything as long as it's not negative to NC ? I believe end result is true intension and only thing that matter not just some polite and fancy words. Thank you. I'm gonna be honest. There is not a single person with the power to change this situation reading this thread, or even the forums at all. The mods are there to provide you with a sense of community and to stop any comments that reflect poorly on the company. They cannot and will not escalate your concerns to someone that has the power to change any of this, and in the off chance that they did - it would be laughed at and ignored. Sincerely, Suru. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Umm Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Dis right here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wootage Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Listen i don't think that business model is perfect but i also think that at max level all this is almost a non issue . at lvl 50 you can hit kinah cap in no time by just farming normal mobs and if selling stuff to npc is your main source of income i feel sorry for you at lvl 50 daeva pass doesn't make sense either because you can craft better potions and get equal scrolls from Broker and nobody is going to spend that much money to get 1 ancient crown or L55 enchantment stone. as for candies idk about you but i was glad i had something to sell and make my kinah for traveling , potions and skill books I think in time candies will be worthless as there are much better ways of making money at max level and only thing you will have to pay will be 15$ daeva pass which tbh i think is more than a fair price, i know it might be too much for people that live outside of US but this is North America Launch and NC isnt really trying to cater to other markets. i think what really we are missing rn is more stuff in shop , we are missing dyes , costumes, wing/weapon skins and as soon as first Asmo hits lvl 50 i dont mind having xp amulets in store too. Also i wanted to address people that only bring negative to forums, like there are dozen or so well known trolls that doesnt matter the topic will always have something negative to say about the NC and game , while im not huge fan of NC myself i do enjoy Aion classic and i think this kind of attitude is hurting game and forums. why cant we just give chance to game and see how it develops in upcoming few months instead of jumping on forums and bashing it every single day , there were people in less than a minute after game was up spamming forums with topics regarding candies . i think bigger problem game has is Kinah sellers, Bots and Spammers in LFG not the tiger candies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonybus Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Just adding to this, as this thread so far seems a logical place, there are some alternatives to a lot of the issues. The game needs to make money, and whales are a huge revenue in online gaming . There has to be a reason for them to want to play and stay in a game. Given the 1mil / day kinah limit, I see less issue with candy if they are made character bound. This stifles overflow from buying a ton of them, but allows people to inject a little bit of money if they wish. Make them a reward in both free and paid daeva passes (ig: 1 candy per 10 levels of pass free, 3~4 for paid). The other issue I'd like to bring up is the overall pricing of things in the game to begin with. It should not cost 45 USD a month for the "season" pass. When it said season, I assumed it would be a multi month pass. Not less than a month, and certainly not character bound. I'd request a refund if I thought I could get one. A better pricing might be: Siel's Aura 15 (as it is currently) Daeva Pass 10 Both : 20$ Not every player wants a pass. Not every player needs more than an hour a day really to game. There are middle grounds that make using these features more accessible and more appealing to players. I don't like the candies but if they're kept to a reasonable amount by the kinah limit and removed from the resell market to bypass said limit there is much less issue with them imo. I want to be able to buy things like costumes, vanity titles, mounts.. furniture if we ever find a way to get housing back in the game even if it came later. There are lots of fun things that can be done with a cash shop on top of a subscription, instead of this fiasco that is upsetting a large portion of the customer base by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anon Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 This is just a thought, but what if the people botting started mass buying candies from players selling candies at a lower cost and then selling the kinah they make for profit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khallarion Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Greetings, I would like to express my opinion and feelings towards Aion business approach. Keep in my this is my opinion, based on my own experience, so I would love your understanding. When I first started playing Aion, around what, 12 years ago? I might say it was my first and serious mmo. At that time, my understanding towards the mmo marketing, also my general understanding about different business approach wasn't clear. I played Aion both in private servers, also in retail, being able to experience different methods; subscription, free to play, and now subscription again. I remember focusing on the retail server after the game going free to play, and stayed from Aion 3.0 to 4.7. Managed to do pretty much everything in the game, bought pretty much everything I liked, mastered different professions, crafted my own eternal set etc. For me, Aion was always a matter of dedication, playing at least 6h a day was just normal, specially for a teenager. When I started noticing no matter what, my ping wouldn't allow me to play properly, specially as a glass cannon, and after so many years, I decided to quit. As stated, I kept following the different content, acquiring different sets of gear, as sorcerer, enchanting it to 10+ and so on, but no matter what, I had an horrible delay. I couldn't properly cast my skills, neither I could compete against someone who would hit me with their 30ms, against my 250- 300ms. Then moved on, playing different mmos, like Tera, Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls. My understanding about mmo market started to increase, also my experience in general, which allowed me to feel Aion as one of the hardest mmos I was able to play. Even Blade & Soul was somehow easier in comparison to the amount of grind and dedication required in Aion. After moving and experiencing pay to play mmos, and comparing the subscription based mmos to Aion, I could notice Aion was abusive. When I say abusive, I mean the game was built in order to make you waste time, so you would keep subscribing in order to achieve your goals. While in other games, they had a different approach, in other words, they wouldn't delay your progress. Not only that, but Aion, with its enchantment system also keep the player wasting their time and in-game money. Other games have easier ways to acquire gear, focusing more on the player development rather gear improvement. Those games allow a faster progress, without being too time-consuming. Another aspect were the expansions and upgrades, since while other games had entire new zones, stories, dialogues and so on, Aion somehow had a simpler expansion. Even though there were new systems, those systems were built for the player waste more and more resources, or invest more in their gear. I can't even say what happened when Aion 5.0 was release, and the Archdaeva gear. I could notice then Aion was a good game, but aged poorly. In other words, NCSoft seems to invest just too little in the game, expecting to exploit it at its max. Or better, expecting to exploit their player base, with maneuvers that aren't as honest I would personally like. In other others, the game turned into a big casino, a gacha, with dubious practices that exploit their player base. Now, returning to Classic, the feeling I had was as if NCSoft was trying to make more profit with the skeleton of a 12 years old game. Releasing content as if it was something new, with dated graphics, mechanics and still an abusive system. Comparing to other mmos, honestly 15$ is just too expensive, for the little amount of content. Not only that, but when comparing to other games, and as stated, the expansions are just to poor, with map & items re-shade. An increasing in the gear cap in order to keep players busy grinding, because without the grind, the game wouldn't have much to offer. But grind doesn't mean quality, it indicates lack of effort in order to bring new content, keeping people busy while exploiting their efforts. In my understanding, the game would age much better if they kept this subscription base, if NSCoft wasn't so greedy and respected their player base. In other words, you don't need gamble, you don't need tricks, or delay someone's progress in order to make the game fun and profitable. It just shows, as stated, lack of competence in matters of not only administrating the game, but also following the new technologies and market. I'm sorry, it's not my intention to offend NCSoft workers, since like me, they're dedicated people doing their job. My intention is to criticize the abusive marketing approach NCSoft has as a company. That's the main point here. So, from what I could notice, if you aren't in a rush, Aion is very nice, very interesting and challenging. The subscription model should have always been their main market approach, since the game was designed for that. Daeva Pass is just optional, and not that game breaking, unless they sell pay to win stuff based on the different seasons, and accordingly player's pace/development. Quna, well if you only charge for skins or things that wouldn't affect the in-game economy and character progress/development, it's fine, optional. So, if they refine some aspects, such as selling items that would allow players to have advantage, shop items, then I might say the game has a future. But NCSoft laziness must stop, and they should invest in the game's engine and graphics improvement, UI and so on. It was really nice being able to live Aion again, and remember all my endeavors. Not happy with 15$ for a dated game, but I can deal with that, it's just a burger I skip. Some Quna here and there for skins it's alright, and Daeva Pass, just no, not paying for that. I hope this review was able to express all my thoughts and feelings. Again, it's not my intention to offend anyone, just make a constructive criticism. May Aion's Light shine upon you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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