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Make the game F2P


Joetaro
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Hello,

Even though I understand that everything is a red tape for NCWest when it comes to making changes (reading Glassdoor reviews), but for the love of god, please, just make the game F2P.

No matter how hard you try, you will not be able to get the player base back from private servers/other games with the current subscription. The only way you could is by making the game free to play.

The overall pricing for Quna/Sub is actually insane. You don't get discounts by buying more Quna, 30$ for a pass is insane, $15 for a 14 year old game is also insane. I am actually wondering if the whole marketing team in HQ are a bunch of 20 year old interns thinking this will bring the most profit. 

EU population is also leaving with EU Classic being announced, there is basically no hope at this point. Even with the drop rates being announced (basically only bringing back Kinah and no gold drops/Godstones).

If you want to make this game last a bit longer, make the game Free to Play at 2.2 launch to bring some kind of population back. 2.0-2.9 was by far the best patch of this game.

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2 hours ago, Suehy said:

Hello,

Even though I understand that everything is a red tape for NCWest when it comes to making changes (reading Glassdoor reviews), but for the love of god, please, just make the game F2P.

No matter how hard you try, you will not be able to get the player base back from private servers/other games with the current subscription. The only way you could is by making the game free to play.

The overall pricing for Quna/Sub is actually insane. You don't get discounts by buying more Quna, 30$ for a pass is insane, $15 for a 14 year old game is also insane. I am actually wondering if the whole marketing team in HQ are a bunch of 20 year old interns thinking this will bring the most profit. 

EU population is also leaving with EU Classic being announced, there is basically no hope at this point. Even with the drop rates being announced (basically only bringing back Kinah and no gold drops/Godstones).

If you want to make this game last a bit longer, make the game Free to Play at 2.2 launch to bring some kind of population back. 2.0-2.9 was by far the best patch of this game.

I don't know if you didn't see the shop but you could technically f2p the game with the candies in the store and just playing 1hr per day to get your loot and buy your armor... you could pay for siels aura for 1 month or two to level up and get enough ap for ap armor but you wouldn't need it for anything else but 

But I guess this is too much of a big brain strategy :v

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58 minutes ago, Techguy said:

I don't think that F2P will save classic. Well, I don't think that classic can be saved at this point.

Pretty much this. Problem with private servers is that they will end up closing servers like they did last time.

You wont get full pvp gear in a month. Hell, you can't do it in two months. It would take you at least 3 months as a completely new player to get somewhat geared to MAYBE start competing with the veteran players.

Do you even know how much AP do you need for current endgame PVP gear? 1.5m for weapon (assuming you only need one), 3m for equipment and another 1m for jewelry.

If you can get that in ONE month, you are hacking AND AP trading.

Also you can barely finish ONE instance in 1h, let alone the 3-5 that you could do daily to get some enchants and gear.

Get your facts straight!

To Gain a full set of 55 Pvp gear is 6 million Abyss points thats everything wep,armor all accs,not counting hundreds of medals.

Assuming during double AP you won 3 dredges and Tiak your looking at around 85k per day,so roughly 600k a week thats still 10 weeks too get a full set and Double ap will be gone soon,So yes it will take a new player a very long time to gear up.

New and return players are always behind,this game is not friendly if you take a break,by time catch up the next tier of gear will be out,there are far too few catchup mechanics for pvp gear.

Doing 4 dredges a day with reset scrolls atm all you face is geared premades,there is no fun it and soon all that will be left are a few geared players, getting face stomped is not fun or enjoyable.

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Subscription based isn't the issue per say, its the level of commitment that a company owes to the playerbase on charging a monthly subscription.  

NCsoft as a company, does not commit to NA. It hasn't for years. The reason why a lot of us were on board with paying a monthly sub, was that to charge a monthly sub means genuine interaction and engagement from the company. With retail version, we experienced exactly what NC KR does. The hope was if they were to charge a monthly sub, they would actually go back to how things were 2009-2012 era, where GM's/CSM's were far more active and engaged. 

The fact that NC KR charges a monthly sub but continues to neglect NA as if it's a F2p business model, is the concern.  Yes, Aion Classic is on its downfall. We are here as retail was when 5.x came out, and it only took 1 year cause Korean business concepts is nyerk-tier. Things may not go back up, but NCKR really needs to get the ego out of their ass and just realize how to conduct business with the rest of the world and not their shoebox sized country.  

We don't blame NC NA, we fully recognize who it truly is, that has consistently killed their own product because they live in 1962.

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The game in retail from when it went to F2play up until around 4.5 was probaly the best Aion ever was.

We had loads of good maps,tons of pvp instances and apart from the stupid GP rank system was probaly the high point of the game.

It wasnt until ncsoft started adding stupid plumes, dps pets,tempering on everything breakthrough skills and gear being chanted with no limits that the game started really declining.

People say they dont like pay2win yet i daresay huge amounts of the playerbase have used candys and quna too get ahead,the problem is when the gap between the casual and the pay2wins becomes too large which it did in retail that forces players away.

This game is way overpriced for what it is,the quna pass was overpriced,and not allowing players to even store the items from passes in account warehouse is still a joke what use is getting caster scrolls on physical classes and vice versa.Such simple things like this show ncsoft just wont listen.

There are hundreds of skins that could be added yet they dont,players want permanent pets like we used too have yet they wont add.

We could all add pages of constructive feedback in a polite and concise manner but just like retail the western market is ignored by korea.

There's no excuse for mistakes this time round they saw what happened in retail and are literally doing the same thing again,players just wont put up with it again when there are so many options out there and companys that want player's money with far better service in every aspect.

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I'm amazed how people love this game so much that they want to play on private servers, yet they couldn't make it succeed. Twice. It was dead at launch with the candies. Everyone who complained knew what was coming.

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23 hours ago, crithards said:

The game in retail from when it went to F2play up until around 4.5 was probaly the best Aion ever was.

We had loads of good maps,tons of pvp instances and apart from the stupid GP rank system was probaly the high point of the game.

It wasnt until ncsoft started adding stupid plumes, dps pets,tempering on everything breakthrough skills and gear being chanted with no limits that the game started really declining.

People say they dont like pay2win yet i daresay huge amounts of the playerbase have used candys and quna too get ahead,the problem is when the gap between the casual and the pay2wins becomes too large which it did in retail that forces players away.

This game is way overpriced for what it is,the quna pass was overpriced,and not allowing players to even store the items from passes in account warehouse is still a joke what use is getting caster scrolls on physical classes and vice versa.Such simple things like this show ncsoft just wont listen.

There are hundreds of skins that could be added yet they dont,players want permanent pets like we used too have yet they wont add.

We could all add pages of constructive feedback in a polite and concise manner but just like retail the western market is ignored by korea.

There's no excuse for mistakes this time round they saw what happened in retail and are literally doing the same thing again,players just wont put up with it again when there are so many options out there and companys that want player's money with far better service in every aspect.

^This. 

FTP is always very profitable, it just depends how you sell your in-game shop. If it costs $20-30 for a pass or $20 for a skin, then you are very out of touch with the game market overall, not just KR. If the pass was $10, I would probably buy it monthly, that is more reasonable. But $30, not worth it.

It is very obvious how out of touch HQ is, and how uninterested they are on trying to learn about the market. Lots of opportunity in this market, but lack of trust in their own branch: 

*To add* The people at NCwest do truly do their best I believe in trying to do what they can and want to make the experience the best they can, but without giving them power to do so, anything they do is too late. 

From Glassdoor reivew:

Link to a screenshot: 

https://imgur.com/ly19FJx

 

https://imgur.com/Jxayuhd

Body of the text:

Great people, terrible publisher

 

Pros

Team was awesome, passionate, and inspiring.

Cons

Getting anything approved was a nightmare and waste of time.

 

 

Edited by Suehy
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On 8/14/2022 at 11:46 PM, Jake-DN said:

Subscription based isn't the issue per say, its the level of commitment that a company owes to the playerbase on charging a monthly subscription.  

NCsoft as a company, does not commit to NA. It hasn't for years. The reason why a lot of us were on board with paying a monthly sub, was that to charge a monthly sub means genuine interaction and engagement from the company. With retail version, we experienced exactly what NC KR does. The hope was if they were to charge a monthly sub, they would actually go back to how things were 2009-2012 era, where GM's/CSM's were far more active and engaged. 

The fact that NC KR charges a monthly sub but continues to neglect NA as if it's a F2p business model, is the concern.  Yes, Aion Classic is on its downfall. We are here as retail was when 5.x came out, and it only took 1 year cause Korean business concepts is nyerk-tier. Things may not go back up, but NCKR really needs to get the ego out of their ass and just realize how to conduct business with the rest of the world and not their shoebox sized country.  

We don't blame NC NA, we fully recognize who it truly is, that has consistently killed their own product because they live in 1962.

^100% agreed as well. I would not mind paying $15 a month what so ever, only IF they actually had 1 dedicated person to take care of the game with more power instead of relying on KR to approve anything. 

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1 hour ago, Edict said:

I'll repeat again. FTP is monetarily unsustainable and is therefore unprofitable. FTP undermines terms of service enforcement and is therefore risks the game's integrity.

There is a reason why people ignored your comment. 

There are way more successful FTP games than there are sub based. Please do your research before making a statement with 0 support. 

Literally almost all on-line games are FTP (including mobile) because they know players will spend more money in-game. 

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20 hours ago, Edict said:

I'll repeat again. FTP is monetarily unsustainable and is therefore unprofitable. FTP undermines terms of service enforcement and is therefore risks the game's integrity.

Apex is FTP and it's profited over 2 billion as of May this year. There are several games that are FTP and generate an absolute ton of revenue, even Aion retail is FTP and it's still going. 

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53 minutes ago, Ontwo said:

Apex is FTP and it's profited over 2 billion as of May this year. There are several games that are FTP and generate an absolute ton of revenue, even Aion retail is FTP and it's still going. 

This 100%.Aion up until 4.5 was hugely profitable and populated,private store everywhere in sanctum with people selling stuff.Even when they added those stupid plumes was a certain templar who posted screenshots of 4500usd spent alone on temperings so players were spending heaps.

There was a massive mix of the whales,casuals,and moderate spenders so sorry but FTP can be hugely successful when done right.

The shop was awesome until it started adding temperings and omegas up until that point it was highly successful loads of skins,pets,Xp amulets teas of repose feli socketing etc.

Whats to do in this game zerg 55 wow run besh everyday and a few forts,Tiak is way overrated and not worth it unless supergeared.So little content in this version.

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The question should not be whether one model is more profitable than the other, since there are successful examples for each of them.

The discussion should be why the model NA chose does not work out. Asking for a subscription is fine. Yet not offering support, communication and fast acting on obvious bugs does not pay off. Why do we even get the bugged patches if most of it has already been fixed at one point in korea? Bots running in Beluslan since the first month with the same names even now, while it would take one hour a week for one person to remove those. Also adding additional pay traps like multiple daeva passes and wardrobe (10 euros per slot), which should both be ingame features not needing quna, is simply silly.

Edited by Stormwing
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They have pay2play and pay2win in one game. You are asking them to remove one of the money making aspects which is the p2p. Why would they do that?

As others mentioned other extremely successful games have either a sub or f2p, many have cash shops... but it has to be done right. If NA proved anything is that they can only do the absolutely worst decision possible.

They had tenths of thousands of players on launch, a 1~2 weeks later it dropped to less than half due to the cash shop they implemented which was never mentioned before, 2 months later and one of the servers was already dead and a few more months later and they had to merge!

What will f2p offer the game other than attract the wrong type of players which are usually from poor countries making 500 accounts to bot free of charge?

Edited by Arhangelos
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53 minutes ago, Stormwing said:

@Arhangelos:
To ultimately not lose both I guess. I can not judge their income but player-count-wise none can deny their current model and past decisions failed.

Nice to see you are alive .

They're losing players exclusively because of pay-to-win. Subscription was known before it launched and tenths of thousands of people accepted it and pre-subbed!

Up to this date the cash shop is the No1 reason the game lost 99% of the players. They can make the game f2p tomorrow, it will be the same p2w garbage only with a myriad of f2p bots.

~I never died :D

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43 minutes ago, Arhangelos said:

They're losing players exclusively because of pay-to-win. Subscription was known before it launched and tenths of thousands of people accepted it and pre-subbed!

Up to this date the cash shop is the No1 reason the game lost 99% of the players. They can make the game f2p tomorrow, it will be the same p2w garbage only with a myriad of f2p bots.

~I never died :D

So what is the p2w stuff, the candies? I don't even see anyone buying candies anymore.

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7 hours ago, Ocala-DN said:

So what is the p2w stuff, the candies? I don't even see anyone buying candies anymore.

I'm pretty sure people still buy candies. But yeah, RMT is much cheaper so people tend to go for that more often.

You forgot to mention Daeva Pass: Default pass, Beginner pass, Event pass, Returnee pass. The amount of enchantment stones in the pass is CRAZY. Plus candies (can't sell them but it doesn't make it less P2W), P2W title (even has pvp damage lol), extra Boons... and all of the above is on the DEFAULT PASS only.

We have had a 250k AP pass, some coins pass thatr you could buy all sorts of things with... I mean, you can't possibly deny that the game is P2W, even taking RMT out of the equation.

INB4 "yOu CaN bUy EnChAnTs WiTh KiNaH" yes, that is true. But it's much, much faster (several MONTHS faster) if you open your wallet.

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What Conman wrote. Whether one calls it pay to win or pay to progress does not change that the Daeva Pass holds increasingly more crowns (abyss points) and increasingly more enchantment- and manastones. One year into the game the free part of the Daeva Pass like scrolls, personal kisks and potions can get discarded immediately due to lack of space or being worse than consumables one uses already. Mine just rots in the mailbox.

If it was for me the Daeva Pass would have never existed since it ruined the genuine classic experience from the start by offering huge amount of coins which invalidated world drops and drops from named mobs. So for me not the cash shop is the issue (anymore) but the daeva pass - if one wants to distinguish those.

If it was for me and for many others, the shop would offer hundreds of skins, various permanent or cheaper temporary pets, all sort of dyes and cosmetic gimmicks. However that pig has been slaughtered enough.

Yet, it is not up to me or any of us. Like someone wrote above, people have experienced the Aion-Cycle once already and they wont put up with the same stuff anymore and also not for so long. They quit and tick off their classic/nostalgic experience as failed and most certainly wont return a third time.

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4 hours ago, Stormwing said:

people have experienced the Aion-Cycle once already and they wont put up with the same stuff anymore and also not for so long. They quit and tick off their classic/nostalgic experience as failed and most certainly wont return a third time.

Exactly, building trust takes a lot of time and effort, destroying trust can take 1 day. Once trust is destroyed it is nearly impossible to be rebuilt. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

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8 hours ago, Conman said:

I'm pretty sure people still buy candies. But yeah, RMT is much cheaper so people tend to go for that more often.

You forgot to mention Daeva Pass: Default pass, Beginner pass, Event pass, Returnee pass. The amount of enchantment stones in the pass is CRAZY. Plus candies (can't sell them but it doesn't make it less P2W), P2W title (even has pvp damage lol), extra Boons... and all of the above is on the DEFAULT PASS only.

We have had a 250k AP pass, some coins pass thatr you could buy all sorts of things with... I mean, you can't possibly deny that the game is P2W, even taking RMT out of the equation.

INB4 "yOu CaN bUy EnChAnTs WiTh KiNaH" yes, that is true. But it's much, much faster (several MONTHS faster) if you open your wallet.

Ahhhh, gotcha and understood. So is this how you got to be so geared? Opening your wallet?

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3 hours ago, Ocala-DN said:

Ahhhh, gotcha and understood. So is this how you got to be so geared? Opening your wallet?

Are you talking about this? https://myaion.eu/Player/866977
Do you honestly consider that to be "geared" for today's standards? I don't. I have 2 pieces of 55e armor not enchanted and with white stones (one of which was given for free in a survey), lvl 30 abyss accs that I bought (cough cough) from the shop, and the Zapiel's Spear +10. BTW I got the enchants from the pass! I have 300k AP in relics that I got from the event pass  (cough cough) which I'm saving to get the 55e chest piece next.

But to answer your question: Absolutely yes. I'm FAR from a whale, but I do buy the pass + aura (and some event passes, not all though) every month. Thanks for asking! Unfortunately if you want any kind of meaningful progress you have to buy the pass, or farm every instance for enchantment stones or to sell LR that you can do daily, but I don't have the time for that (6h+ daily?).

About my Zapiel's Spear, I worked freaking hard for it. I have 6x SMs in a separate account to summon people that help me near the islands, and I have often dual boxed to help on DPS. I did not buy it, I farmed it.

I spend around $40 monthly since I came back 2 months ago to get some progress going... It may not seem much for you maybe, but it's a shitload of money for a old game. I only pay because I really, really like the game.

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