Aion 7.5 will bring a major class rebalance: things I would like on CHANTERS

[Lapis-DN]

 

As mentioned in the new patch notes of Aion 7.5, in the nexts weeks Aion will suffer another big class balance.
One of the biggest complaints after 7.2 patch are how +15 Daevanions / Stigmas turned the PVP (even more) broken and imbalanced and how some classes are effectively outperforming others.

7.5 brings 3 new exclusive skills to each class that breaks the game (again), but they are locked under Odians, a new feature that will be added to accessories.

I remember (back in 2.x ~ 4.x) a very old thread where Chanters pointed how lackluster the class used to be and what NCsoft could do to improve it.
So - for now - I think its time to improve some things on Chanters again  because the class suffered a massive nerfhammer after 6.5 and its close to be bottom-tier again. For me 5.8 was the best patch to play a chanter. We used to have nice and consistent dps, extremelly functional stun/stumble lock mechanics and high survivality (Archdaeva Protection Ward I miss you).  7.2 will light the load bringing an enhanced version of the shield and another cool changes. But for me there's still things to do on here.

I will list them. just tell me if you think they're too much because I don't want to make the class a brokengod again like it was on 6.0~6.2

 

1. Make Word of Life a Greater Stigma,  increases its healing by 25% and lower the cooldown to 40s.
Except if you are a fully stigma-enchanted chanter, you're not running WoL in a solo/dps build. Word of Life became a very good skill if you take in consideration how it used to be underwhelming in earlier patches (A minor group healing skill in a 3 minute cooldown). But it can be better for the ones who like a truly healing role and still provide cool support.

2. Bring back Magical Attack buffs to chanter. That its, just make Mantras and Word of Instigation a source of Magical Attack again.

3. Increase the base damage of some skills.

Well, chanters never were a good reference to dps in this game. Except for the few who are tryhard and can make impressive ammounts of dps, this class still underperforms if you take a look of what other classes can do without trying so hard. Most of chanters can't finish Tower of Challenge due to the lack of bursting damage.

- Increase the damage of Overwhelming Jugdment / Chaos Smash / Mountain Crash / Numbring Blow and Ressonating Strike by about 25%

4. Make Mantras great again. Over the years the mantras were watered down to a number of 3. They're pretty weak nowadays for a thing that should be this class main signature.
Thats all, mantras could provide more status or maybe new functions.

5. A ranged snare. Binding Word used to be a good way to catch up kiters but this skill is long gone. (I know it will come back as a Odian Skill in 7.5, but i'm not sure if it's enough, because they're hard to get.)

6. Acceleration Cheer is crap and completely obsolete. This skill could have potential in a support role if it affected the entire group, providing Speed and slow/immobilization resistance while its up.

7. Remove the parry condition on Splash Swing.   Thats it. Splash Swing have a good damage output but having to parry to pop it makes the skill harder to be used in a lot of scenarios and situations.

8. Energy Discharge should be a timed dispel.

Since Cleansing Recovery Spell were nerfed due to be broken (a mental/physical dispel that auto-dispels every 3s in a 10s cooldown) would be nice if another Chanter skill could get this feature in a more balanced way.

Energy Discharge have a 1m cooldown and it dispels 1 ailment.  It could dispel 1 Ailment every 3s in a 8s duration. (2s delay and then 1 dispel every 3s)

 

[Arhangelos]

I know your class has gotten godmode in 6.2 and then a fix in 6.5, and I call it a fix while you call it a nerf, chanters had godmode survivability and top tier dps which was nothing but a bad thing. In Aion every class that was never meant to be a dps god, got to the point of being one at some point that now everyone thinks their hybrid class needs to be a tank+healer+dps because it was in the past and they liked it (and many classes are still like that). Asking for a direct dps increase on your offensive skills just like that is like you ask to be a true dps class again and chanter was never supposed to be one.

Chanter was supposed to be a supportive hybrid with some heals, plenty of defensive and offensive buffs and some dps, and all that depending on the stigma build.

I agree that your mantras should be more relevant again, your class should get a mystic support again like it used to and indeed some other skills are obsolete.

If you ask me, the class should get a healing mode with the right stigmas with little dps and a dps mode with the right stigmas with little healing, but not to the point that these two will meet and make physical dps cleric like chanter was in 6.2.

[The Secret Cow Level]

Looking back at Chanter's 6.5 skill changes compared to 6.2... (This page is newly generated)

While all other physical classes had damage buffs on most of their skills, chanters had none - and even 2 hardest hitting daevanion attack had damge cut down by 1/3! That was pretty much an indirect DPS nerf on chanters.

[Rapier-DN]

14 minutes ago, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

Looking back at Chanter's 6.5 skill changes compared to 6.2... (This page is newly generated)

While all other physical classes had damage buffs on most of their skills, chanters had none - and even 2 hardest hitting daevanion attack had damge cut down by 1/3! That was pretty much an indirect DPS nerf on chanters.

Which makes sense, considering other physical classes don't have the same advantages that chanters do - the same buffs, heals stuns, binds , and their mantras. 

The last thing that we need is a return to 6.0 or 6.2 and overtuned chanters.

I would hope that other classes that are in far worse shape are looked at but I doubt that it's going to happen.

 

[Lapis-DN]

5 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

I know your class has gotten godmode in 6.2 and then a fix in 6.5, and I call it a fix while you call it a nerf, chanters had godmode survivability and top tier dps which was nothing but a bad thing. In Aion every class that was never meant to be a dps god, got to the point of being one at some point that now everyone thinks their hybrid class needs to be a tank+healer+dps because it was in the past and they liked it (and many classes are still like that). Asking for a direct dps increase on your offensive skills just like that is like you ask to be a true dps class again and chanter was never supposed to be one.

Chanter was supposed to be a supportive hybrid with some heals, plenty of defensive and offensive buffs and some dps, and all that depending on the stigma build.

I agree that your mantras should be more relevant again, your class should get a mystic support again like it used to and indeed some other skills are obsolete.

If you ask me, the class should get a healing mode with the right stigmas with little dps and a dps mode with the right stigmas with little healing, but not to the point that these two will meet and make physical dps cleric like chanter was in 6.2.

if you're talking about the healing boost removal on daevanion skills, I agree it was a needed fix because those skills made chanters (and their group) near immortal.
But dpswide I conside what they did a NERF, not a fix. Just look how the classe is underperforming in general dps and Tower of Challenge.

Chanters are a support class with a dps build just like clerics. You give up major supportive skills AND healing boost if you want to run dps stigmas

[The Secret Cow Level]

Crucible Spire leaderboards

Top chanter and median chanter on NA have surpassed the top songweaver and median songweaver in the last season!

[Lapis-DN]

1 hour ago, Rapier-DN said:

Which makes sense, considering other physical classes don't have the same advantages that chanters do - the same buffs, heals stuns, binds , and their mantras. 

The last thing that we need is a return to 6.0 or 6.2 and overtuned chanters.

I would hope that other classes that are in far worse shape are looked at but I doubt that it's going to happen.

 

 

even rangers and sorcerers have a bind in the current meta. what is your point?
and it don't make any sense since every class, even clerics, have a locking potential if well played haha.

 

 

[The Secret Cow Level]

5 minutes ago, Lapis-DN said:

if you're talking about the healing boost removal on daevanion skills, I agree it was a needed fix because those skills made chanters (and their group) near immortal.
But dpswide I conside what they did a NERF, not a fix. Just look how the classe is underperforming in general dps and Tower of Challenge.

Chanters are a support class with a dps build just like clerics. You give up major supportive skills AND healing boost if you want to run dps stigmas

Coming up in 7.2...

Blessing of Wind getting a cooldown reduction (not so much if highly enchanted). As it is the chanter's most important DPS skill it is very helpful.

 

Clerics are no longer able to toggle off their healing mode (Benevolence) or attack mode (Sacrifical Power =) buffs

Chanters' attack mode (Word of Inspiration) continue to be able to be toggled off when healing is needed...

Songweavers attack mode (Impassion) and healing mode (Exultation) remain to be toggled off

 

[Lapis-DN]

Just now, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

Coming up in 7.2...

Blessing of Wind getting a cooldown reduction (not so much if highly enchanted). As it is the chanter's most important DPS skill it is very helpful.

 

Clerics are no longer able to toggle off their healing mode (Benevolence) or attack mode (Sacrifical Power =) buffs

Chanters' attack mode (Word of Inspiration) continue to be able to be toggled off when healing is needed...

Songweavers attack mode (Impassion) and healing mode (Exultation) remain to be toggled off

 

 

also Mountain Crash becomes a -350 physical def debuff instead of a DoT
They're cool changes but the dps is still kinda low

[The Secret Cow Level]

With 7.2, clerics are crying

[Rapier-DN]

2 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

 

even rangers and sorcerers have a bind in the current meta. what is your point?
and it don't make any sense since every class, even clerics, have a locking potential if well played haha.

 

 

I honestly don't see what that has to do with the topic. Are you seriously saying that a ranger plays at all like a sorc? or either plays at all like a chanter? That would be a first.

and no, not every class  has anywhere near the same locking potential..which is one reason   the game isn't balanced. 

[Lapis-DN]

1 hour ago, Rapier-DN said:

I honestly don't see what that has to do with the topic. Are you seriously saying that a ranger plays at all like a sorc? or either plays at all like a chanter? That would be a first.

and no, not every class  has anywhere near the same locking potential..which is one reason   the game isn't balanced. 

errr

we're not playing the same game.

[Rapier-DN]

33 minutes ago, Lapis-DN said:

errr

we're not playing the same game.

You're right..considering you said "even sorcs have bind" in the same sentence as rangers, when sorcs were the only cloth class that didn't have bind-  and are still considered in the bottom tier for PVP- I really don't  see that we're playing the same game.

[Lapis-DN]

3 minutes ago, Rapier-DN said:

You're right..considering you said "even sorcs have bind" in the same sentence as rangers, when sorcs were the only cloth class that didn't have bind-  and are still considered in the bottom tier for PVP- I really don't  see that we're playing the same game.

Soul Freeze

 

Target: Selected Target
Usage Cost: MP 650
Cast Time: 1s
Cooldown: 20s

 Deals 1232 magical wind damage.
Silences and Binds the target for 5s

5 minutes ago, Rapier-DN said:

You're right..considering you said "even sorcs have bind" in the same sentence as rangers, when sorcs were the only cloth class that didn't have bind-  and are still considered in the bottom tier for PVP- I really don't  see that we're playing the same game.

sorcs are really far from bottom tier.
the only patch were sorcs seemed weak was during 5.x where most people rerolled SW but this time is long gone. The game is full of sorcerers again while sws are pretty underplayed

[The Secret Cow Level]

Arena of Discipline class performances

[GenericUser7527]

12 hours ago, Lapis-DN said:

sorcs are really far from bottom tier.
the only patch were sorcs seemed weak was during 5.x where most people rerolled SW but this time is long gone. The game is full of sorcerers again while sws are pretty underplayed

If sorcs are "really far from bottom tier" I'm curious about the many classes you would say rank lower? SM? Painter? Cleric? Sin? Templar? AT? 

We're talking about PvP right? Sorc is definitely high up there in terms of PvE since sorc damage output in PvE spec is really good... but for the current patch in PvP sorc has been bottom-tier since the 6.x updates.

[Arhangelos]

On 12/8/2019 at 2:03 AM, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

With 7.2, clerics are crying

I find it amusing clerics find it hard not to be top dps and top survival healing pools any more with just a toggle. I kinda agree this is a little too drastic, they could make Sacrificial Power be a -pvp attack instead of a general -magic attack.

But let me sit back and enjoy the fact one of the longest broken classes is finally getting a nerf hammer for a patch. Next step: delete Painter class from the game and we are on the right path.

[Lapis-DN]

12 hours ago, wasa-EK said:

If sorcs are "really far from bottom tier" I'm curious about the many classes you would say rank lower? SM? Painter? Cleric? Sin? Templar? AT? 

We're talking about PvP right? Sorc is definitely high up there in terms of PvE since sorc damage output in PvE spec is really good... but for the current patch in PvP sorc has been bottom-tier since the 6.x updates.

 

ok dude.
If you think so, create a thread of your own and ask for enhancements on sorc's skill set w/e. you're welcome to do so

I am not here asking for a nerf on any other class I don't play. I am talking and giving feedback about chanters, a class that I main since the days of Dark Poeta as a end-game instance and I can say the class need little tweaks to feel better overall.

[Lapis-DN]

On 07/12/2019 at 8:47 PM, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

Crucible Spire leaderboards

Top chanter and median chanter on NA have surpassed the top songweaver and median songweaver in the last season!

the problem is SW became a near dead class after 6.x patch and I cant explain exactly why.
They used to be popular in 5.x to the point where almost every sorc rerolled SW

 

maybe they're experiencing a dramatic buff in 7.5? I don't know how the class is doing in KR for now

[Vantheria-DN]

Lots of non-chanter-mains in this thread haha. Here's my opinion as another chanter main. 

On 12/7/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lapis-DN said:

1. Make Word of Life a Greater Stigma,  increases its healing by 25% and lower the cooldown to 40s.
Except if you are a fully stigma-enchanted chanter, you're not running WoL in a solo/dps build. Word of Life became a very good skill if you take in consideration how it used to be underwhelming in earlier patches (A minor group healing skill in a 3 minute cooldown). But it can be better for the ones who like a truly healing role and still provide cool support.

Hmm, I don't HATE this idea, but I don't love it either. I always have WoL socketed, but I also have +11 stigmas, sooo... To me, I love having that one extra heal that I can throw out while running. Plus, the CD (for me) is only 50 seconds. So I guess my opinion is based on privilege, but I rather like having it as a green stigma. I don't like how songweaver's HoT got changed to a blue stigma, so I naturally don't want that to happen to Word of Life. However, I can see your points as well.

On 12/7/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lapis-DN said:

2. Bring back Magical Attack buffs to chanter. That its, just make Mantras and Word of Instigation a source of Magical Attack again.

3. Increase the base damage of some skills.

Well, chanters never were a good reference to dps in this game. Except for the few who are tryhard and can make impressive ammounts of dps, this class still underperforms if you take a look of what other classes can do without trying so hard. Most of chanters can't finish Tower of Challenge due to the lack of bursting damage.

- Increase the damage of Overwhelming Jugdment / Chaos Smash / Mountain Crash / Numbring Blow and Ressonating Strike by about 25%

Agree completely. Word of Instigation is SO powerful for physical classes, but 100% useless to magical classes. I would prefer a compromise. Instead of 500 crit/acc/atk to phys classes and 0 to magic, why not 350 to all classes? Idk. Also would like to see our "nukes" have their damage increased a bit as you mentioned in point 3.

On 12/7/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lapis-DN said:

4. Make Mantras great again. Over the years the mantras were watered down to a number of 3. They're pretty weak nowadays for a thing that should be this class main signature.
Thats all, mantras could provide more status or maybe new functions.

I don't mind only having 3 mantras. However, one of them is pretty dang weak -- the purple "shield" one. I even toggle it off completely in some cases so that my group members don't accidentally push off more important buffs due to that fairly useless mantra. It's okay in pvp, I guess, but absolutely dumb in pve.

On 12/7/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lapis-DN said:

5. A ranged snare. Binding Word used to be a good way to catch up kiters but this skill is long gone. (I know it will come back as a Odian Skill in 7.5, but i'm not sure if it's enough, because they're hard to get.)

6. Acceleration Cheer is crap and completely obsolete. This skill could have potential in a support role if it affected the entire group, providing Speed and slow/immobilization resistance while its up.

7. Remove the parry condition on Splash Swing.   Thats it. Splash Swing have a good damage output but having to parry to pop it makes the skill harder to be used in a lot of scenarios and situations.

Agree on most of these. I do miss Binding Word. That said, however, Overwhelming Judgment is a good way to "snare" someone as I feel like the stun rate is pretty high. Acceleration Cheer is useless now especially now that most people have a legendary transform. To be honest though, I don't think anyone would trade a more important skill for Acceleration Cheer even if they DO make it more useful. There are just too many better skills out there. I never use Splash Swing because of the parry thing. Too much of an annoyance.

On 12/7/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lapis-DN said:

8. Energy Discharge should be a timed dispel.

Since Cleansing Recovery Spell were nerfed due to be broken (a mental/physical dispel that auto-dispels every 3s in a 10s cooldown) would be nice if another Chanter skill could get this feature in a more balanced way.

Energy Discharge have a 1m cooldown and it dispels 1 ailment.  It could dispel 1 Ailment every 3s in a 8s duration. (2s delay and then 1 dispel every 3s)

I don't necessarily think we need (another) timed dispel, but I do think it should be buffed a bit. It's almost useless because there are SO many things it won't dispel. A greater healing pot is more useful than this skill.

 

One other thing I would add...

 Emergency Teleport

The cooldown on this is 3 minutes, and it's the only "blink" skill we have. It would be nice to see the cooldown reduced a bit, maybe to 2 minutes.

[Lapis-DN]

11 hours ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Lots of non-chanter-mains in this thread haha. Here's my opinion as another chanter main. 

Hmm, I don't HATE this idea, but I don't love it either. I always have WoL socketed, but I also have +11 stigmas, sooo... To me, I love having that one extra heal that I can throw out while running. Plus, the CD (for me) is only 50 seconds. So I guess my opinion is based on privilege, but I rather like having it as a green stigma. I don't like how songweaver's HoT got changed to a blue stigma, so I naturally don't want that to happen to Word of Life. However, I can see your points as well.

Agree completely. Word of Instigation is SO powerful for physical classes, but 100% useless to magical classes. I would prefer a compromise. Instead of 500 crit/acc/atk to phys classes and 0 to magic, why not 350 to all classes? Idk. Also would like to see our "nukes" have their damage increased a bit as you mentioned in point 3.

I don't mind only having 3 mantras. However, one of them is pretty dang weak -- the purple "shield" one. I even toggle it off completely in some cases so that my group members don't accidentally push off more important buffs due to that fairly useless mantra. It's okay in pvp, I guess, but absolutely dumb in pve.

Agree on most of these. I do miss Binding Word. That said, however, Overwhelming Judgment is a good way to "snare" someone as I feel like the stun rate is pretty high. Acceleration Cheer is useless now especially now that most people have a legendary transform. To be honest though, I don't think anyone would trade a more important skill for Acceleration Cheer even if they DO make it more useful. There are just too many better skills out there. I never use Splash Swing because of the parry thing. Too much of an annoyance.

I don't necessarily think we need (another) timed dispel, but I do think it should be buffed a bit. It's almost useless because there are SO many things it won't dispel. A greater healing pot is more useful than this skill.

 

One other thing I would add...

 Emergency Teleport

The cooldown on this is 3 minutes, and it's the only "blink" skill we have. It would be nice to see the cooldown reduced a bit, maybe to 2 minutes.

 

thank you for your feedback Vantheria <3

you're always constructive and i've loved ur points.

11 hours ago, Vantheria-DN said:

 

I don't necessarily think we need (another) timed dispel, but I do think it should be buffed a bit. It's almost useless because there are SO many things it won't dispel. A greater

 

healing pot is more useful than this skill.

take notes that Stamina Discharge is a universal cleanse (mental + physical dispel) while GHP only removes physical stuff.
I know it won't change anything at all, but in some cases it can be helpful. Example: it counts as a mental dispel if you're under Beritra debuff that turns you into a balaur. So, if you dont have 2 clerics or 1 cleric and 1 SW you can dispel yourself with the help of any other dispel plus Stamina Discharge

And I agree about Emergency Teleport, the cooldown is too high but I dont think they will change it because of Cleansing Recovery Spell hehe

[Lapis-DN]

@Vantheria-DN  @TheSecretCowLeve-KT class balance is out and that's what chanter got:

1. Shield Mantra got buffed (slightly more Defense, Evasion and Parry)
2. Word of Inspiration got its cooldown increased to 30s and another penalty in healing boost.
New effect:
Physical Attack +500
Accuracy +500
Crit +500
PVE Attack +500
Healing Boost -1000

3. The shield capacity of Curtain of Light was increased to 80.000 prior to its 50.000
4. Pentacle Shot now debuffs -160 Physical Def prior to its -42 Physical Def

 

 

[Vantheria-DN]

I'm okay with all of those changes! Obviously, the only "nerf" was WoI, and that's not really a big deal imo. I'm only in Inspiration spec when I'm alone as most of my close friends I run with are physical classes (so I'm in Instigation spec).