@PVP Elyos / EC

[Zappies-DN]

So we know you are looking for PVP!  One of the better places for mass PVP was always EC, but it is ruined now with first 8 characters elyos alts and then random pugs get suckered into joining those unless its just more alts. It is so bad even Cit doesn't call for us to go EC and he always did! Yes, Asmo are behind in gear and books and whatnot so it has become impossible to be competitive or give good pvp if we all join and its 12 of us vs every good Elyos. 

How can we fix this and make EC a PVP hotspot again? At least until the other side is beaten into submission. Is this something we should ask NC to address? 

KBFs have been rather painful lately unless stacked vs alts or something, so you shouldn't worry too much about losing...It was one of the best things about Aion...Sad... 

Should we engage Rin?  Perhaps buffed rewards for both KBF and EC? Report alts? Ideas? Give up?

Zap

[AnonymousCoward-DN]

Could start with standardizing gear in pvp arenas and including an AFK ban mechanism that LOL has had for over 10 years.  AFK in arena = auto 3 day ban.  But that takes core code changes, and isn't something NCWest is going to do unless this gets implemented in KR.  Pretty sure that EC and KBF both go away in 8.2 and are simply replaced with 1v1 and 3v3 arenas.  So yea, that's how they're dealing with the problem. 

[TimelessAngel-KT]

Premades can happen again only if the rewards are updated to what suited for the players to go in and que.. 
Rewards such Apostle Fragments , Ancient Rune enchanters dusts or stones can push this pvp instance to the greatest again

[Jake-DN]

PvP died for Aion in 5.x

No one who genuinely wants competitive PvP is playing retail Aion. 

Those waiting for Aion to have genuine PvP are waiting for Aion classic to hit 2.x.

Still a bust but 2.x is better than anything 5.x - after. KR Dev's cant design a game cause KR, just gotta make do with what we got.

[Arhangelos]

EC and other pvp instances were populated because they had good rewards. During 7.x they decided that no pvp instance should be relevant anymore, they started giving the best pvp gear on pve instances (the accessories) and the pvp gear on a shared map while you try to pve (Timeless Terrace) and they removed pretty much all rewards from pvp instances.

I know elyos have been putting their Asmodian alts so they can pop the instance and have a secure win. But I wouldn't even bother trying to make a premade to win on EC, the rewards suck.

[AnonymousCoward-DN]

4 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

But I wouldn't even bother trying to make a premade to win on EC, the rewards suck.

Used to be that good pvp was its own reward.  One of he problems with having "good" rewards is the abuse.  Folks afk after a single wipe (even if ahead on points) and it just doesn't matter.  Folks join with ults to get a win.  Happens in the 1v1 ladder and dredge and has happened for years.  Stop the abuse first, then increase the rewards.  But NC can't manage such a system.  They can't even give the community the tools to self-manage a system (couldn't ever figure out how to enable an afk kick feature in EC without bugging entry count).

They could make open world pvp rewards better.  One of the Daeva's Day events had a pvp week with rewards.  Collecting pvp kills/souls/etc and making that a currency could bring back pvp.  This whole game was supposed to be pvp while trying to pve.  Bring back pvp events, bring back tia eye, stop rewarding afk in pvp settings.  Make it easier to reach gear cap (or provide more of a gear cap) so that the pvp that does exist is more balanced.  Easier path to not getting stomped would bring back more players, which might also improve the pvp.

[Zugie-DN]

I believe that this game still has so much potential life in it. And I with Zapie, agree, places and instances like EC could be such a wealth of activity for players. It would even invigorate for others to maybe return. I think it was nailed with auto kick AFKers. I don't think we need to be serious enough for bans for afking, however, I do believe that a simple kick would help maintain health of pvp instances. As for rewards, and absolutely and definite yes, we as the Aion community and players, need reason, rewards do not need to be spoon fed to us, but at the most, make them worth the time and energy for us to want to be competitive about it. Even the world bosses could use a little change in rewards, as for the most part most of the rewards are so obsolete at this point.

[Aelaht-KT]

AFKers bother me a lot, I don't care what faction they are from. I am very much in favor of implementing an autokick for afk people and also improving the rewards.

[Arhangelos]

19 hours ago, AnonymousCoward-DN said:

Used to be that good pvp was its own reward.  One of he problems with having "good" rewards is the abuse.  Folks afk after a single wipe (even if ahead on points) and it just doesn't matter.  Folks join with ults to get a win.  Happens in the 1v1 ladder and dredge and has happened for years.  Stop the abuse first, then increase the rewards.  But NC can't manage such a system.  They can't even give the community the tools to self-manage a system (couldn't ever figure out how to enable an afk kick feature in EC without bugging entry count).

They could make open world pvp rewards better.  One of the Daeva's Day events had a pvp week with rewards.  Collecting pvp kills/souls/etc and making that a currency could bring back pvp.  This whole game was supposed to be pvp while trying to pve.  Bring back pvp events, bring back tia eye, stop rewarding afk in pvp settings.  Make it easier to reach gear cap (or provide more of a gear cap) so that the pvp that does exist is more balanced.  Easier path to not getting stomped would bring back more players, which might also improve the pvp.

There is so much class imbalance and p2w and niche items that most people do not have and thus can't compete. Good PvP cannot exist in a scenario where there is injustice by design of the game.

If EC had unified stats (like Illumiel Brawl) then it could be possibly better. But no matter what, matching your own game with alts will always be possible and people will keep doing it and ruin the fun.

[lBeni-DN]

Ncwest could put ancient and legendary transformation by coin of pvp instances... many players don't have 10% of the complete collection =/

[Ele-DN]

Haven't played ec in a few months. Anything I missed?

[Squid]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:41 PM, Arhangelos said:

EC and other pvp instances were populated because they had good rewards.

Populated with alts that que up for free wins vs their main on their other faction.

[Arhangelos]

17 minutes ago, Squid said:

Populated with alts that que up for free wins vs their main on their other faction.

Yes, the alt problem was always rampant, but we also had plenty of peopel that were active, I have tried EC like 2~3 times since 7.0 just to see the garbage it was turning once every 3~4 months.

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

I think the core issue is that the rewards are no good. Remember when, for a limited time, rewards were buffed to include relevant items and suddenly we had multile 192 vs 192 EC lobbies running at the same time? It's true that we kept the daevanion essences from that promotional event and that was definitely the right move, but imagine how many more people would queue PVP if the rewards gave more relevant items like Refining Stones, Sanctity Potions, Glyph Fragments, Io, Holy Water, etc etc etc.

Heck, even as recent as 7.0 when we needed purification mats and everyone was running 10+ AD a day and 10+ EC a day (until the EC bug was discovered and abused but that's an aside <_<). At the end of the day, with the exception of enchanting daevanion skills, running PVP dungeons actively harms your progression because it offers nothing to your benefit and takes up significant amounts of time which could be spent elsewhere making progress. Let's see some patch-relevant items in the battlefield coin shop and watch that PVP dungeon queue attendance soar~~

[Briearios]

I agree the rewards have been bad for every pvp instance but I think people also forget the other glaring problem with Aion. It is a gear based p2w game. You want to increase the rewards I agree. So tell me what does the losing team get when they get beat down every time they log on because they face people with full gear, collections, runes and gemstones and every ultimate transformation? Tell me what rewards are going to be so good they will endure dying when 1 glad jumps in the middle of their team and runs his forehead on his keyboard and destroys their entire group?

[Squid]

This is one of the secret formulas that made 4.0 so successful.

1. Needed Kinah? Buy mythic supplements.
2. Needed ancient coins? Turn BM in for coins.
3. Needed enchant stones? extract the gear.
4. New player and you needed competitive gear? Keep the BM's to buy gear.
5. Needed AP? Turn weapons in for AP down in ID i think it was.

Due to the vast choice the player had all playstyles meet each other on the battlefield creating a dynamic experience with ups and downs keeping players coming back for more. That is what EC needs. It needs to cater to all players and offer something for everyone so all players want to participate. 

It is what it is tho chances are nothing will happen because the game is not designed for playing it is designed for spending. Which is unfortunate because people end up spending more when they are playing. 

 

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Briearios said:

You want to increase the rewards I agree. So tell me what does the losing team get when they get beat down every time they log on because they face people with full gear, collections, runes and gemstones and every ultimate transformation? 

Presumably they would get the same rewards just in smaller quantities, as was the tradition before the recent updates.

 

On 2/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Briearios said:

Tell me what rewards are going to be so good they will endure dying when 1 glad jumps in the middle of their team and runs his forehead on his keyboard and destroys their entire group?

Again, same answer but expanded: even a complete defeat should be more rewarding than not playing at all. It was better to lose a dredge/EC and get fewer materials than to not queue and get zero materials. Currently, it's not more rewarding even if you win ._.

Ideally if you're getting stomped by a super team, you just wait it out and walk away with your progression materials and you advance to greater powers. If the possibility of losing to people who out gear you is intolerable on your ideal progression path, then you might be in the wrong genre .-.

[Briearios]

1 hour ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

Presumably they would get the same rewards just in smaller quantities, as was the tradition before the recent updates.

 

Again, same answer but expanded: even a complete defeat should be more rewarding than not playing at all. It was better to lose a dredge/EC and get fewer materials than to not queue and get zero materials. Currently, it's not more rewarding even if you win ._.

Ideally if you're getting stomped by a super team, you just wait it out and walk away with your progression materials and you advance to greater powers. If the possibility of losing to people who out gear you is intolerable on your ideal progression path, then you might be in the wrong genre .-.

I agree with you on some but not on the bolded part. You are insuinating that every game in this genre has a model like Ncsoft has for Aion which is spend spend spend and those who don't will either catch up to you in a few months, over a year, never or catch up to you or when a new patch is out and you have to start the whole process again of not being able to catch all over again. I have played a lot of MMOs and Aion is the only game so far where this amount of ridiculous p2w grants you items that f2p can't hope to catch up on. Gw2 and Lost Ark follow the tradition in gear does not matter in pvp arenas. Lost Ark you can pay to gear up faster but only to achieve a gear score that f2p will get eventually and there's no difference between gear. So calling it the "wrong genre" is incorrect.

Also I am not agreeing with people who afk but just like people who do not want to wait or just want more of advantage and spend money, some people don't have the time or money to spend on Aion and their way of trying to gear up is going afk in instances. Like someone suggested a long time ago maybe make an afk instance different from normal queue. All in All Ncsoft will not change their model so things will stay the same. This game will never get any new players because this game is not new player friendly unless they plan to deposit their wages directly to the bcm.

Oh that note this reminds me of something a streamer from Korea told me. He said that younger koreans when asked about Aion stated "It is a game for old people who like to spend money". I didn't know if to be insulted, cry or die of laughter.

 

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

I was just referring to personal gear based PVP games, not MMOs as a whole. For Aion in particular, progression doesn't come without losses to superior geared and more practiced players. No matter how good anyone gets, no one is safe from defeat.

I was just saying in the ideal PVP rewards solution, players would still opt to participate no matter win/lose/draw because their participation will be an important step in their progression; which in turn keeps the dungeon queues shorter because more people are running it. This also lowers the time cost of running a PVP dungeon (everything except Discipline has a longer queue time than duration due to how few people run them).

[Squid]

On 2/26/2022 at 2:49 PM, Briearios said:

I agree with you on some but not on the bolded part. You are insuinating that every game in this genre has a model like Ncsoft has for Aion which is spend spend spend and those who don't will either catch up to you in a few months, over a year, never or catch up to you or when a new patch is out and you have to start the whole process again of not being able to catch all over again. I have played a lot of MMOs and Aion is the only game so far where this amount of ridiculous p2w grants you items that f2p can't hope to catch up on.

You have to remember Aion never use to have that type of model.

They simply will not admit that their current model is bad and that is in part because they have some major spenders over in KR who still play retail that spend more money than our entire region spends on Aion QoQ(note: I do not have any factual proof of this but i am just assume this to be true). The thing is the p2w is not the issue here it is the whole the only way to obtain these items realistically is through events. 

Look at Lost ark the game you mentioned, That games gearing system is 100% p2w people have spent 10s of 1000s in just a few days. There are cards that give you major advantages in end game content, The ability to buy as many crystals from the cash shop as you need to take advantage of the cash shop crystal store is crazy. Ultimately the difference between Aion and Lost ark is that if you remove the gold>crystal conversion the game still works 100% as intended you can still progress your gear.

The difference in design philosophy is the issue wtih Aion and NCsoft. They are designing events first then the cash shop than finally the play-able features and so long as they keep this philosophy they will struggle moving forward with all their PC titles.