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I Just Heard What IMHO Consider an Awful Rumor: There is NO Flying in 6.0?

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27 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

In this part, did you mean that it sucks as in bad or that its depressing? :P Because, honestly, out of all "bandaid lore" resorts used in the past, 6.0 was the best one ever carried out.

...Which is exactly the thing they are avoiding. They are revamping THE WHOLE levelling story so its easier to understand. They are trying to avoid what happened before with the "new" and "old" campaigns back in... I think 4.7? The exact problems you are talking about are the same problems they are trying to fix with the update that you are so much against.

Why do you think Aethertechs had an entire different questline? The surging of the class is based solely on post 4.0 events. Instead of trying to fit Aethertechs into the "old story", they got a whole new one, and it worked (for a while).

Tell me something, since you are so adamant about not letting the old story go and having old zones back. How would you explain to a new/returning player the return and sudden ressurection of all NPCs that died during 4.8? How would you explain to them how Enshar and Cygnea are up on sea level despite Katalam and Reian regions still being around? How would you explain the resentment against Ereshkigal with our world mostly intact? You would have to do all this without making it overly complicated and appealing to read.

Locking maps in time is common in MMOs. You don't need to delete zones to advance the story. Maybe you see a different world map when you're in Enshar and Cygnea with 3.0 and 4.0 zones destroyed and you can't teleport to them. How cool would that be? Then even new players can be given a sense of story progression and world change. And what about the Tiamat storyline? Why not just leave it in the game and let new players see what really happened rather than say "Oh, Tiamat is dead" and shrug it off?

Also, new players don't feel any sadness of losing Sarpan/Tiamaranta/Katalam/Danaria. "Ereshkigal sank 4 massive regions!" "Oh? I don't know any of these regions, but okay..." Without a chance to experience them, they won't feel anything about Ereshkigal destroying 4 regions.

Edited by xiilieaxz-DN

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33 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

...Which is exactly the thing they are avoiding. They are revamping THE WHOLE levelling story so its easier to understand. They are trying to avoid what happened before with the "new" and "old" campaigns back in... I think 4.7? The exact problems you are talking about are the same problems they are trying to fix with the update that you are so much against.

They just had to spend some effort to make sure the dialogues made sense after editing the questline, not rewrite the entire campaign, so no, that's not the purpose. I'm expecting more lore malfunctions in this rewritten campaign.

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Bryos-DN   

And now we go back to the old problem that we have already discussed. You have an extreme amount of either compulsory content that people will have to sit through or an extreme amount of optional content that only a small portion of the players will do. The latter is what we have right now, and its not working out.

If you make it compulsory, then you lose the players who have gone through it several times and those that dont mind the story. And, how would you fit so much storytelling without locking your progress? You cant. If you leave it optinal, you will only do it for a small portion of the playerbase and waste resources on upkeeping empty maps. And those maps being empty is also a problem that affect those who go through it.

18 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

They just had to spend some effort to make sure the dialogues made sense after editing the questline, not rewrite the entire campaign, so no, that's not the purpose. I'm expecting more lore malfunctions in this rewritten campaign.

Good for you, Toys R Us.

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28 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

And now we go back to the old problem that we have already discussed. You have an extreme amount of either compulsory content that people will have to sit through or an extreme amount of optional content that only a small portion of the players will do. The latter is what we have right now, and its not working out.

If you make it compulsory, then you lose the players who have gone through it several times and those that dont mind the story. And, how would you fit so much storytelling without locking your progress? You cant. If you leave it optinal, you will only do it for a small portion of the playerbase and waste resources on upkeeping empty maps. And those maps being empty is also a problem that affect those who go through it.

Good for you, Toys R Us.

And now you're losing out on that portion of players who realize it's too late to start playing the game because the lore is practically screwed up. As a PvE player, I can vouch for this. I only fell in love with the game because of its PvE campaign and quests. I loved it so much that I didn't mind doing PvP when I reached end game. If you're going to drop me straight into PvP, then I would've quit fast because I wouldn't have had feelings about the game, and I would never have been part of end game content. As a sieging and PvP game, every player counts. For each player less the game is going to feel more dead and a chain effect will start where people quit because the game is dead. It justifies the server upkeep by attracting as many players as possible to keep the game alive. Just speed up the campaign but change all the removed campaigns to dark blue quests, not delete almost the entire game.

Too many maps wasn't the problem. The problem was overscheduled sieges in 4.7 which burned players out (see my thread in suggestions forums). That's why people were leaving, not because there were too many maps. And now the problem is repetitive sieges. They deleted all the good sieges that everyday is Abyss, Abyss, Abyss, and more Abyss. No wonder the game died out even faster. And it's not going to change in 6.0 with just 1 new fort + Kaldor.

Edited by xiilieaxz-DN

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Do you even know how the lore exactly looks in 6.0, unless you've played it in other regions?, or are you still fretting about dead maps that are only serving to bog down a game? You don't know how the game is going to change between now and the next major patches. Getting rid of old maps makes room to add new maps and continue the lore.

If you've blocked me, that's cool and all, but I've mentioned at least once how new players are leaving the game before it even starts because... THE LOW LEVEL MAPS ARE DEAD. DED. They're big; they're lost. They're confused, and they are so, so, so very dead. Those bigass, old maps made sense back when we had PvPvE going on on them, but now they serve next to 0 purpose other than to show off how old and empty the game is.

I'm so confused by your statements, too. The game punched you in the face with PvP right at level 20, before you got into any lore beyond "holy shit these orc creatures hit really hard and are farming odella and nyerk the flagbearer guy who calls kwii~ if you agro him." I'm guessing (guessing!) you came in later in the game, fell in love with something that didn't exist early on, and are now clinging to nostalgia because you and .05% of other players who vehemently (not casually) care about old maps are about to lose them, even if you haven't looked at them in three years. The lore changed a ton at 3.0, and, tbqh, that's when the game actually got lore-heavy, and, yes, I miss that lore, too, but I also know that Korea did a revamp to the whole 1 - 80 lore, so I'm curious to see what's there since I don't speak any language fluently other than Murica English to find out for myself.

 

Speaking with optimism, we might be about to get punched in the face by a pretty map with sweet lore here Soon(tm). 6.5 has us poking Ereshkigal (with her dying/getting rekt by the Aion fragment?), and I'm curious to see where they're going to go with that.

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5 minutes ago, Cheesecake-DN said:

Do you even know how the lore exactly looks in 6.0, unless you've played it in other regions?, or are you still fretting about dead maps that are only serving to bog down a game? You don't know how the game is going to change between now and the next major patches. Getting rid of old maps makes room to add new maps and continue the lore.

If you've blocked me, that's cool and all, but I've mentioned at least once how new players are leaving the game before it even starts because... THE LOW LEVEL MAPS ARE DEAD. DED. They're big; they're lost. They're confused, and they are so, so, so very dead. Those bigass, old maps made sense back when we had PvPvE going on on them, but now they serve next to 0 purpose other than to show off how old and empty the game is.

I'm so confused by your statements, too. The game punched you in the face with PvP right at level 20, before you got into any lore beyond "holy shit these orc creatures hit really hard and are farming odella and nyerk the flagbearer guy who calls kwii~ if you agro him." I'm guessing (guessing!) you came in later in the game, fell in love with something that didn't exist early on, and are now clinging to nostalgia because you and .05% of other players who vehemently (not casually) care about old maps are about to lose them, even if you haven't looked at them in three years. The lore changed a ton at 3.0, and, tbqh, that's when the game actually got lore-heavy, and, yes, I miss that lore, too, but I also know that Korea did a revamp to the whole 1 - 80 lore, so I'm curious to see what's there since I don't speak any language fluently other than Murica English to find out for myself.

 

Speaking with optimism, we might be about to get punched in the face by a pretty map with sweet lore here Soon(tm). 6.5 has us poking Ereshkigal (with her dying/getting rekt by the Aion fragment?), and I'm curious to see where they're going to go with that.

Like I said, if they are dead, they don't have to make the campaign go through them. But at least leave the maps open for people to explore as side content if they want to.

Lvl 20 PvP is pretty much dead now, so it's PvE all the way till Arenas at Lvl 50. You do get a small taste of PvP with rifting (you might still bump into people), then it slowly ramps up to real PvP. If you're going to drop PvE players right into hardcore PvP, I'm telling you, that's not going to work.

Maybe those overpowered kralls were the reason they added the overpowered Lvl 10 gears. I don't like having overpowered gears, true, but anything is still better than deleting all the content. Those "orc creatures" die in like 2-3 hits that they aren't an issue anymore. plus they give tons of exp since you're able to solo them. I don't know what you're talking about the game punching us in the face. There's no reason to delete the maps because of that. Side content is always good for any game.

And like I said, players will think it's too late to start the game because the original game has been deleted, and they won't even start playing the game. How do you keep players if they don't even start the game? This is one big issue in Guild Wars 2 where they had Living World Season 1 which is almost exactly like what is happening in Aion now. Every now and then you'll see people asking ArenaNet to bring it back because they missed it and parts of the lore are missing. ArenaNet realized this and fixed this from Season 2 onward where they only added new maps and left old maps untouched, and this was received much more positively by new players. Unfortunately, NCSoft has not realized this and are following the Season 1 format, and now new players are suddenly already at Ereshkigal, the 3rd dragon lord, with no way to play through the events prior to that.

Honestly, this is like politics. I'm fighting for more content and you're fighting for less, and we both have no idea why each other is thinking that way.

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The whole advocating for slow leveling and that the PvE lore was godly when you played is because you didn't start playing until the game went f2p, didn't you? I pointed out how your obsession with the old lore and being a solid PvE'er with no PvP until endgame (as if you're the only one who is all about that PvE and lore? Because I am, too, lawl) doesn't make sense in the context of the original game and why the maps were relevant then and aren't now. The maps were big back then because...............PVP HAPPENED. That's where you PvP'd. You did it on the leveling maps. You had the big maps to find places to hide while you ground your face to the ground trying to get tiny amounts of XP...two things you must have never experienced in Aion.

They take up space; they drive away new players. Campaign quest guidance won't fix that. They're ugly. They're useless resources. They serve no purpose but to appeal to the tiny demographic who clings to them.

The game has moved on. At least you know it's moved on and you know what to expect rather than being blindsided the way the Koreans were. Nothing you say here will change the fact that they're gone, and, currently, they're not making a comeback.

Edited by Cheesecake-DN

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I'm all for the idea of new maps. I just wish with the removal of so many that they had thought to enlarge the ones they kept. I am also pretty put-off by the player who said they managed to fully level a toon on Korean servers in as little as three days (while casually playing). I have a feeling those players who prefer a more leisurely pace wont have much say in how fast they level through content.

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16 minutes ago, Cheesecake-DN said:

The whole advocating for slow leveling and that the PvE lore was godly when you played is because you didn't start playing until the game went f2p, didn't you? I pointed out how your obsession with the old lore and being a solid PvE'er with no PvP until endgame (as if you're the only one who is all about that PvE and lore? Because I am, too, lawl) doesn't make sense in the context of the original game and why the maps were relevant then and aren't now. The maps were big back then because...............PVP HAPPENED. That's where you PvP'd. You did it on the leveling maps. You had the big maps to find places to hide while you ground your face to the ground trying to get tiny amounts of XP...two things you must have never experienced in Aion.

They take up space; they drive away new players. Campaign quest guidance won't fix that. They're ugly. They're useless resources. They serve no purpose but to appeal to the tiny demographic who clings to them.

The game has moved on. At least you know it's moved on and you know what to expect rather than being blindsided the way the Koreans were. Nothing you say here will change the fact that they're gone, and, currently, they're not making a comeback.

Whether there's PvP or not on the old maps doesn't matter, because it there won't be in Heiron in 6.0 either. The new campaign won't bring PvP to Heiron. Deleting the maps is unrelated to PvP. It's about leaving them as side content. I don't know what's on your mind thinking that more content = less players. Yes, the game is always moving on to new maps, but like I said with the Guild Wars 2 example, you can't fix this by constantly deleting old content. What you're doing is scaring new players away because they're missing a huge chunk of the game.

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Also, PvP has never mattered for a long time in low level maps because of Fast Track Server. PvP was never everything about the maps. I still see people doing PvE in Eltnen, Heiron, and Theobomos. Just because you can't find people to kill doesn't mean the map is dead.

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3 minutes ago, Bryos-DN said:

For someone who says they are so invested in lore, your knowledge in both story lore and game history is lacking.

Knowledge in what lore? Or are you just spouting whatever just came in your head?

PvP in low level maps died when fast track was introduced. It's obvious. While it was a step in the right direction to protect players who are leveling, they could have done better by simply adding a toggle pvp mode.

 

Okay seriously, why are you so mad about people arguing for keeping content in this game? Is it because you already experienced it, so who cares? You don't care about lore or the campaign or the maps, so how does it affect you anyway? You're just being selfish and not wanting others to have fun.

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14 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Okay seriously, why are you so mad about people arguing for keeping content in this game? Is it because you already experienced it, so who cares? You don't care about lore or the campaign or the maps, so how does it affect you anyway? You're just being selfish and not wanting others to have fun.

It might be because you're doing the equivalent of screaming about it in a cafeteria. The devs that implement these sorts of changes are in Korea and the changes have already been implemented. Sure, they haven't reached us yet, but it's a matter of time - we're not getting our own separate kind of Aion.

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Just now, Rakesh-DN said:

It might be because you're doing the equivalent of screaming about it in a cafeteria. The devs that implement these sorts of changes are in Korea and the changes have already been implemented. Sure, they haven't reached us yet, but it's a matter of time - we're not getting our own separate kind of Aion.

While the devs are in Korea they might still listen to feedback of players from other regions. Sure, they have been implemented, but they can be reversed. It's not too late before the game becomes Truly Dead™.

And I was asking why people like Cheesecake and Bryos are so mad at me suggesting the maps should not be deleted / should be re-added. If they took a neutral stance and said "I don't care if the map is deleted." I would understand, but they took a hardcore stance wanting the maps to be deleted. It doesn't concern them one bit since they don't care about them. As for me, I have every right to be mad because it does concern me in every bit.

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26 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Okay seriously, why are you so mad about people arguing for keeping content in this game? Is it because you already experienced it, so who cares? You don't care about lore or the campaign or the maps, so how does it affect you anyway? You're just being selfish and not wanting others to have fun.

 

Logged into forums for the first time just to comment. There is such as thing as too much content. This was exactly the problem in 4.5(updated UA forts)-Upheaval. There were so many sieges in those patches and content needed to be consolidated. Also, even in 5.8 a lot of content isn't directly related to the main lore of Aion. So what's to be missed again? You should know this because that's apparently really important to you. The maps that 6.0 got rid of were long overdue to be deleted. I do wish they deleted the older maps and kept Katalam and Danaria around, but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to a game. Nothing is forever. I played 6.0 in Korea for about a week. It took me about 12 hours of casual play to go from 1-80 with an unreliable English translation patch. The devs streamlined the entire leveling process via the reworked maps because they want players to get to endgame and enjoy that content. Even with this streamlined process, I don't think they sacrificed large sums of content/lore. Even with the translation patch I could still tell there's enough of a story there to be enjoyed even though the devs want the leveling process to be fast-paced. It's a much more concise story, one that I don't think new players (if there ever are any) would feel like they were missing out on. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 17s1333-KT said:

Logged into forums for the first time just to comment. There is such as thing as too much content. This was exactly the problem in 4.5(updated UA forts)-Upheaval. There were so many sieges in those patches and content needed to be consolidated. Also, even in 5.8 a lot of content isn't directly related to the main lore of Aion. So what's to be missed again? You should know this because that's apparently really important to you. The maps that 6.0 got rid of were long overdue to be deleted. I do wish they deleted the older maps and kept Katalam and Danaria around, but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to a game. Nothing is forever. I played 6.0 in Korea for about a week. It took me about 12 hours of casual play to go from 1-80 with an unreliable English translation patch. The devs streamlined the entire leveling process via the reworked maps because they want players to get to endgame and enjoy that content. Even with this streamlined process, I don't think they sacrificed large sums of content/lore. Even with the translation patch I could still tell there's enough of a story there to be enjoyed even though the devs want the leveling process to be fast-paced. It's a much more concise story, one that I don't think new players (if there ever are any) would feel like they were missing out on. 

 

 

You are right with too many fort sieges. But they way overfixed it. They just had to tune it down to 1 siege per weekday and 2 sieges per weekend, like I suggested. Not remove everything and make everyday Abyss, Abyss, Abyss, and more Abyss. Instead of overloading people with too much content they are now boring people with the same content every day.

Whether it is important to the main lore or not doesn't matter. It's the quests and side stories. You probably haven't done any and don't know how beautifully they were written by the original developers.

Edited by xiilieaxz-DN

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3 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

You probably haven't done any and don't know how beautifully they were written by the original developers.

45 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Okay seriously, why are you so mad (snip)?

Gee I wonder.

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Just now, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Whether it is important to the main lore or not doesn't matter. It's the quests and side stories. You probably haven't done any and don't know how beautifully they were written.

 

Incorrect assumption. I played InfiniteAion tons before NA went free-to-play. Back then it took 3 solid days of gameplay just to get to level 20 lmao, so yes I remember all the quests and content. At some point, in any games development cycle, old content must be removed to make way for the new.

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2 minutes ago, 17s1333-KT said:

Incorrect assumption. I played InfiniteAion tons before NA went free-to-play. Back then it took 3 solid days of gameplay just to get to level 20 lmao, so yes I remember all the quests and content. At some point, in any games development cycle, old content must be removed to make way for the new.

Like I said, is it because you already experienced them, so it doesn't matter to new players or people who want to re-experience them? You know you're not the only player and not everyone started playing the same time as you, right? Old content isn't old to everyone. Leaving it as side content harms no one. Do it if you want, ignore it if you don't care. Stop being selfish.

Edited by xiilieaxz-DN

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Just now, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Like I said, is it because you already experienced them, so it doesn't matter to new players or people who want to re-experience them? You know you're not the only player and not everyone started playing the same time as you, right? Old content isn't old to everyone. Leaving it as side content harms no one. Do it if you want, ignore it if you don't care.

Nah, you overestimate the number of new players who actually care about the content in the lower levels. It's not 100% who don't care, because I don't believe in absolutes. But most don't. Most players just want to get to the endgame where the majority of the player base, their friends, and the "fun content" are. In 4.7 most players, I knew plenty of players who had no real idea what the lore behind the main preface of Aion was. Their summaries would go something like, "a long time ago someone or something destroyed the tower and that's how we have elyos vs asmodians and Aion is god and balaur are monsters." This is about as much story as a typical player could tell you. They couldn't elaborate on the Empyrean Lords, the reasons for the celestial war, the two different versions of how the war started depending on what race you were, etc. 

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Just now, 17s1333-KT said:

Nah, you overestimate the number of new players who actually care about the content in the lower levels. It's not 100% who don't care, because I don't believe in absolutes. But most don't. Most players just want to get to the endgame where the majority of the player base, their friends, and the "fun content" are. In 4.7 most players, I knew plenty of players who had no real idea what the lore behind the main preface of Aion was. Their summaries would go something like, "a long time ago someone or something destroyed the tower and that's how we have elyos vs asmodians and Aion is god and balaur are monsters." This is about as much story as a typical player could tell you. They couldn't elaborate on the Empyrean Lords, the reasons for the celestial war, the two different versions of how the war started depending on what race you were, etc. 

Not all new players will care too much, but what about replayability? Even I didn't do all the quests on my first character, I just did whatever quests I came across. But on my second character I wanted something different so I challenged myself to do every quest. Without side quests there is no more replayability, or rather, no choice for a different style of gameplay. On my current character I met a guy who was doing exactly the same as I'm doing: trying to do all the quests, so we helped each other. So I know I'm not alone in this.

Not everyone cares about lore, sure, but nuking so many maps and making sure no one can play them again is just plain selfish. It isn't going to attract people who want pure PvP, because they would not be looking for a PvPvE MMORPG in the first place, much less one 10 years old.

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17 minutes ago, xiilieaxz-DN said:

Not everyone cares about lore, sure, but nuking so many maps and making sure no one can play them again is just plain selfish. It isn't going to attract people who want pure PvP, because they would not be looking for a PvPvE MMORPG in the first place, much less one 10 years old.

 

I don't think replayability has ever been on the mind of the devs since the inception of the game. MMO's like WoW have replayability: there are so many different races to play on two different sides for example. Whereas with Aion there are only 2 real story progressions and they are closely mirrored to each other. Clearly, what they've been doing now for patches 4.9-5.8 haven't been working. The diminishing player base across all regions (Korea included) is proof of this. It's called Aion Refly because it's a soft reboot of the game. As I previously mentioned: it's like Aion, but not like Aion at the same time. And having played it, it was refreshing. I was running around in rubbish gear still having fun because gear doesn't have the ability to carry as hard in 6.0 as it does in 5.8. You really should play it, seeing as it'll never come to NA at this rate. 

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Just now, 17s1333-KT said:

I don't think replayability has ever been on the mind of the devs since the inception of the game. MMO's like WoW have replayability: there are so many different races to play on two different sides for example. Whereas with Aion there are only 2 real story progressions and they are closely mirrored to each other. Clearly, what they've been doing now for patches 4.9-5.8 haven't been working. The diminishing player base across all regions (Korea included) is proof of this. It's called Aion Refly because it's a soft reboot of the game. As I previously mentioned: it's like Aion, but not like Aion at the same time. And having played it, it was refreshing. I was running around in rubbish gear still having fun because gear doesn't have the ability to carry as hard in 6.0 as it does in 5.8. You really should play it, seeing as it'll never come to NA at this rate. 

They did have the idea of replayability. Elyos and Asmodian quests, while similar at some points, are vastly different, coming from someone who has done every Elyos and Asmodian quests including normal light blue quests. But now that is getting nuked and both campaigns are going to become the same. These 6.0 devs sure have an idea how to turn an interesting game into a boring one.

And like I said, the reason 4.8+ failed was because of lack of sieges. They took a wrong turn with the game, yet they're doubling down on it all the way down the hill. Mark my words, people will soon get bored of the 6.0 fort because there is no other siege than Kaldor and more players will leave. NCSoft needs to wake up and get back devs like those up to 4.0 who had a clear vision on how to make a great game.

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Kubei-DN   

People will come and go. I know what to expect from 6.0 and I know a lot of people will simply quit because of the “there’s nothing to do”, isn’t it what happened with 5.8 anyway? It’s important to remember there’s also casual players and pvers, continuous need for PvP is exchausting and I can just tell it’s gonna nyerk me off to be in the new map (Lakrum) because I’m gonna be ganked 24/7.

Either way, I think you’re being too over dramatic about this, crying again about the old maps being removed and why the game is gonna fail just doesn’t help the cause. 6.0 happened because 5.8 almost killed the game, not 4.8.

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