Is it worth returning to the game to play 7.9, when aion classic is coming out?

[DMob-DN]

36 minutes ago, Feelix-DN said:

Aion retail and classic should be fun. Just try both and see what you prefer. 

[Attestant]

18 minutes ago, Shoenfein-DN said:

Reality is rarely as good as the nostalgia.  I don't know why people can't see that "Classic Aion" is just going to be a repeat of all the things that were wrong with it before.  And what happens with the patching?  They are just going to keep it at version 2.7 for forever?  I highly doubt that will keep people entertained for very long.  People will reach max level and gear and want all the things they want now - content upgrades, events with new shiny gear, etc.  So then patch 3.0 comes out.  Then 4.0, 5.0, etc. 

For me, "classic" would be circa 4.5 (I think - I'm not Aion-nerdy enough to know patches well).  I loved daily Tia sieges, Katalam and Danaria sieges, and PVPing on those maps.   But I also missed sieges in Ingg/Gelk and needing both forts to open Silentera Canyon.  To me that was awesome - sieging with purpose.  I rarely went into the canyon at all, and had no interest in Hex and Besh - but I loved the sieges that had some meaning behind them.  I think that was before 4.5 - I can't remember when they changed it to "just one" or "always open".  I hated the GP system.  So at some point, there would be a cross-over failure for me, where Katalam and Danaria sieges would come in, GP would be a thing, sieges in Ingg/Gelk would change, and I'd grumble about the same things all over again.

I could be way off base.  Maybe they will recode everything from scratch after 2.7 to change the progress, or just keep it at 2.7 forever and people will love it.  It just doesn't seem to me that this is a likely path.

I hate Silentera Canyon as well. I hate being directed to a massive zerg in on spot of the map. I like it when everything is scattered, for the most part. I like flight PvP and I like the Abyss as well, so the Abyss is perfect for me. In these patches I can choose to go to a zerg for AP, which is perfect for progression.

On 5/27/2021 at 8:41 PM, yess-DN said:

I need opinions, to know if it is worth returning to the game in 7.9 or better to wait for the aion classic

Wait for classic if it comes out or not.

[Vinley-KT]

2 hours ago, Aelar-DN said:

This is just patently not true. I respect you and your opinions as a veteran player, but a veteran player is all you are, you are not an active player.

Excluding transformations (which we all know acquiring can take time), almost every step from character creation to end-game gear in PvP can be obtained with a standard time investment with absolutely no real cash payment whatsoever. Minions, which require a lengthier time investment absolutely cannot be bought in full with real money. 

In fact; If went in-depth and studied it, the game starts looking a lot less P2W and more like casual time savers. Especially considering that there is nothing that is sold on the BCM that is unavailable in-game. Occasionally, on very rare occasions, they will sell extremely expensive, sometimes purchase limited bundles that contain a few harder to get items such as Ultimate enchantment stones (which still have a significant fail rate).

Furthermore; IF NCWest stick to their word (which they have done so far), we can expect another Ultimate transformation promotion later this year as it seems to be every 6 months, and we knew the last one was coming as well. Myself and many other players saved up the required materials through regular gameplay and got arguably the most broken part about the game completely free. Yes, the transformation could be designed better but it's still doable without spending any real money. 

You will be hard-pressed to find any real affirmation that the game is actually P2W. It's really more.. P2SST (Pay to save some time).

Of course you can get it in game, but you are severely sugar coating the logical amount of time that takes. It's not something you can do in a month. Not even 2 months, not 3. I've tried, I did the math, I went over what it would take. I was even offered free stuff by friends. It would take grinding on 8 alts, every day, for months to get to the point you can PVP against top tier players, who are among the only ones that even try to PVP.

The fact you shifted P2W to P2SST is pretty.. I don't know. Of course everything can be obtained in game, but if that item takes 6 months and praying for an event that you already saved up for, that's far beyond paying to save some time. Its not realistic to tell a player they have to wait 6 months to compete with top tier players. That sounds ridiculous. It's P2W. Of course it can be achieved with time. When's the last time Aion took 6 months to get to the point of competing? In 4.0 it took 3 weeks to get full discordant and start PVPing. You didn't need minions, you didn't need enchanted stigmas, you didn't need to upgrade your gear tier, you didn't need to upgrade your weapon tier, you didn't need to risk breaking the best weapons, you didn't even need kinah.

Saying you can't get certain things from the cash shop right now is nothing short of lying. We all know they constantly release RNG events that P2W players can spend thousands in for the chance to get random items from boxes for pretty much anything in the game. Just because you can't buy it directly from the shop doesn't mean you can't get it from spending money. In fact, it even makes it worse, because it means ONLY the whales will even be able to get it, normal players CAN'T get it because it costs thousands to realistically get significant amounts of what you want.

If I log on Lords mobile. In 6 months I can grind 1 million tier 5 troops if I do it every single day and don't get raped by a player. Or, I can spend $5,000 and get it all in about 2 weeks. Is that now "P2SST"? Everything P2W is "P2SST", changing the verbiage doesn't make it sound any better to people who haven't been brainwashed by this predatory model. Not to mention, there's a reason why there's only 400~ people devoted enough to do what it takes to maintain relevancy in this patch, grinding on 8 alts for 8 hours a day is just ridiculous. That's not gaming, that's a job.

I mean if you are talking to a new player, be honest to him. People weren't honest to me when I attempted to come back. Everyone sugar coated it, and then when I finally realized what it took I couldn't help but just laugh, and it left a really bitter taste in my mouth about the community, because what it required was beyond ridiculous.

[Vinley-KT]

44 minutes ago, Shoenfein-DN said:

Reality is rarely as good as the nostalgia.  I don't know why people can't see that "Classic Aion" is just going to be a repeat of all the things that were wrong with it before.  And what happens with the patching?  They are just going to keep it at version 2.7 for forever?  I highly doubt that will keep people entertained for very long.  People will reach max level and gear and want all the things they want now - content upgrades, events with new shiny gear, etc.  So then patch 3.0 comes out.  Then 4.0, 5.0, etc. 

For me, "classic" would be circa 4.5 (I think - I'm not Aion-nerdy enough to know patches well).  I loved daily Tia sieges, Katalam and Danaria sieges, and PVPing on those maps.   But I also missed sieges in Ingg/Gelk and needing both forts to open Silentera Canyon.  To me that was awesome - sieging with purpose.  I rarely went into the canyon at all, and had no interest in Hex and Besh - but I loved the sieges that had some meaning behind them.  I think that was before 4.5 - I can't remember when they changed it to "just one" or "always open".  I hated the GP system.  So at some point, there would be a cross-over failure for me, where Katalam and Danaria sieges would come in, GP would be a thing, sieges in Ingg/Gelk would change, and I'd grumble about the same things all over again.

I could be way off base.  Maybe they will recode everything from scratch after 2.7 to change the progress, or just keep it at 2.7 forever and people will love it.  It just doesn't seem to me that this is a likely path.

The game is going to 2.7 "As-is" and will then alter course from there based on Korean classic player demands. They're apparently going to even be changing the lore entirely since the game lore doesn't even make sense anymore, but that's just a rumor. They'll likely get 3.0 because 3.0 is liked among Koreans. We just don't know exactly what happens after that, but that's still a year off. 2.0 is a big patch, and 2.7 is even bigger.

[Aelar-DN]

34 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

Of course you can get it in game, but you are severely sugar coating the logical amount of time that takes. It's not something you can do in a month. Not even 2 months, not 3. I've tried, I did the math, I went over what it would take. I was even offered free stuff by friends. It would take grinding on 8 alts, every day, for months to get to the point you can PVP against top tier players, who are among the only ones that even try to PVP.

The fact you shifted P2W to P2SST is pretty.. I don't know. Of course everything can be obtained in game, but if that item takes 6 months and praying for an event that you already saved up for, that's far beyond paying to save some time. Its not realistic to tell a player they have to wait 6 months to compete with top tier players. That sounds ridiculous. It's P2W. Of course it can be achieved with time. When's the last time Aion took 6 months to get to the point of competing? In 4.0 it took 3 weeks to get full discordant and start PVPing. You didn't need minions, you didn't need enchanted stigmas, you didn't need to upgrade your gear tier, you didn't need to upgrade your weapon tier, you didn't need to risk breaking the best weapons, you didn't even need kinah.

Saying you can't get certain things from the cash shop right now is nothing short of lying. We all know they constantly release RNG events that P2W players can spend thousands in for the chance to get random items from boxes for pretty much anything in the game. Just because you can't buy it directly from the shop doesn't mean you can't get it from spending money. In fact, it even makes it worse, because it means ONLY the whales will even be able to get it, normal players CAN'T get it because it costs thousands to realistically get significant amounts of what you want.

If I log on Lords mobile. In 6 months I can grind 1 million tier 5 troops if I do it every single day and don't get raped by a player. Or, I can spend $5,000 and get it all in about 2 weeks. Is that now "P2SST"? Everything P2W is "P2SST", changing the verbiage doesn't make it sound any better to people who haven't been brainwashed by this predatory model. Not to mention, there's a reason why there's only 400~ people devoted enough to do what it takes to maintain relevancy in this patch, grinding on 8 alts for 8 hours a day is just ridiculous. That's not gaming, that's a job.

I mean if you are talking to a new player, be honest to him. People weren't honest to me when I attempted to come back. Everyone sugar coated it, and then when I finally realized what it took I couldn't help but just laugh, and it left a really bitter taste in my mouth about the community, because what it required was beyond ridiculous.

I don't know what else to tell you other than you're way off base. 

"Of course you can get it in game, but you are severely sugar coating the logical amount of time that takes. It's not something you can do in a month. Not even 2 months, not 3. I've tried, I did the math, I went over what it would take."

This just isn't true. Yes there are some areas where RNG is involved but it is possible to farm hundreds of millions of AP per week (and the 7.9 patch proved that is possible), then you can go straight to Timeless Terrace with sub-par gear, farm the souls, engage in a bit of PvP along the way (which isn't always against "top tier PvPers") and with a bit of luck, you could have the full, best-in-slot PvP gear inside a week or two. Do your daily/weekly lugbug missions, use the luna to farm minium vault, and keep your Demaha renown up along the way. It really is not that difficult, nor does it take much time at all.

Of course everything can be obtained in game, but if that item takes 6 months and praying for an event that you already saved up for, that's far beyond paying to save some time. Its not realistic to tell a player they have to wait 6 months to compete with top tier players.

The item in question isn't like anything else; Ultimate transformations have a certain level of grandeur around them and are literally the peak of your accounts progression and I would say is the most sought-after addition for any player to have. The fact that you have a chance to get a guaranteed Ultimate xform every 6 months is a huge deal. Do you need one to go up against geared/top tier players? No, definitely not (Source; https://streamable.com/xb5xm1 Legendary vs Ultimate xform).

In 4.0 it took 3 weeks to get full discordant and start PVPing

It takes a couple of days max to get full Shadowdelve and start PVPing. Discordant wasn't as good as Seraphs' much the same way Shadowdelve isn't as good as Bitterthorn so there's no excuse there either.

We all know they constantly release RNG events that P2W players can spend thousands in for the chance to get random items from boxes for pretty much anything in the game.

Again, this isn't true. I even went back through the news feed to check for previous events which may be considered P2W. The most recent one I could find was last Halloween during the Pumpking event, where it was possible to purchase 5 guaranteed Legendary transform contracts for 32,000 NCoins, which a lot would say isn't even worth it. The Stormwing event however, which we recently had, was just out-of-this-world insane in regards to the selectable rewards on offer, daily, with NO paywall whatsoever.

it costs thousands to realistically get significant amounts of what you want

Erroneously incorrect.

grinding on 8 alts for 8 hours a day is just ridiculous

No one is actually doing this unless they're trying to achieve something very specific, such as refining stones or prestige coins. Occasionally we get events which benefit from having a ton of alts, but very few events have account tradable rewards these days.

People weren't honest to me when I attempted to come back

This much is evident. I'll be real honest with you; Judging purely by what you've said on the forums, I don't think they were helping you much at all. You're so far removed from reality that a lot of your presence here on the forums as an inactive player comes across as confirmation bias.

[Vinley-KT]

59 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

I don't know what else to tell you other than you're way off base. 

"Of course you can get it in game, but you are severely sugar coating the logical amount of time that takes. It's not something you can do in a month. Not even 2 months, not 3. I've tried, I did the math, I went over what it would take."

This just isn't true. Yes there are some areas where RNG is involved but it is possible to farm hundreds of millions of AP per week (and the 7.9 patch proved that is possible), then you can go straight to Timeless Terrace with sub-par gear, farm the souls, engage in a bit of PvP along the way (which isn't always against "top tier PvPers") and with a bit of luck, you could have the full, best-in-slot PvP gear inside a week or two. Do your daily/weekly lugbug missions, use the luna to farm minium vault, and keep your Demaha renown up along the way. It really is not that difficult, nor does it take much time at all.

Of course everything can be obtained in game, but if that item takes 6 months and praying for an event that you already saved up for, that's far beyond paying to save some time. Its not realistic to tell a player they have to wait 6 months to compete with top tier players.

The item in question isn't like anything else; Ultimate transformations have a certain level of grandeur around them and are literally the peak of your accounts progression and I would say is the most sought-after addition for any player to have. The fact that you have a chance to get a guaranteed Ultimate xform every 6 months is a huge deal. Do you need one to go up against geared/top tier players? No, definitely not (Source; https://streamable.com/xb5xm1 Legendary vs Ultimate xform).

In 4.0 it took 3 weeks to get full discordant and start PVPing

It takes a couple of days max to get full Shadowdelve and start PVPing. Discordant wasn't as good as Seraphs' much the same way Shadowdelve isn't as good as Bitterthorn so there's no excuse there either.

We all know they constantly release RNG events that P2W players can spend thousands in for the chance to get random items from boxes for pretty much anything in the game.

Again, this isn't true. I even went back through the news feed to check for previous events which may be considered P2W. The most recent one I could find was last Halloween during the Pumpking event, where it was possible to purchase 5 guaranteed Legendary transform contracts for 32,000 NCoins, which a lot would say isn't even worth it. The Stormwing event however, which we recently had, was just out-of-this-world insane in regards to the selectable rewards on offer, daily, with NO paywall whatsoever.

it costs thousands to realistically get significant amounts of what you want

Erroneously incorrect.

grinding on 8 alts for 8 hours a day is just ridiculous

No one is actually doing this unless they're trying to achieve something very specific, such as refining stones or prestige coins. Occasionally we get events which benefit from having a ton of alts, but very few events have account tradable rewards these days.

People weren't honest to me when I attempted to come back

This much is evident. I'll be real honest with you; Judging purely by what you've said on the forums, I don't think they were helping you much at all. You're so far removed from reality that a lot of your presence here on the forums as an inactive player comes across as confirmation bias.

The gear itself means literally nothing. Enchantments, accessories, plumes, wings, minions, bracelets, stigmas, enchanting said stigmas, runes, gemstones, expanding slots, upgrading both, transforms, cubics, glyphs, manastones, and that's not even all of it, because they're also going to need a PVE set. Oh and not to mention, the Luna game still exists, which is basically a credit card enabled slot machine. Meanwhile all the blatant p2w on the cash shop, from reset scrolls to stigma bundles, enchant stones. Arguing this game isn't P2W as shit is like, actually laughable.

Then on top of all that, a new player is going to need kinah as well, starting from scratch.

I mean feel free to make a youtube series on starting an account from scratch, free, and getting to max gear and everything listed above, including stigmas and upgrades and how long it takes until you can actually beat one of the top geared players on the server. I'd love to see you prove me wrong.

There's a reason even in Korea they're down to 600 player servers for Live with 3000 man ques on 7 classic servers. On the release of a brand new patch.

[Aelar-DN]

16 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

The gear itself means literally nothing. Enchantments, accessories, plumes, wings, minions, bracelets, stigmas, enchanting said stigmas, runes, gemstones, expanding slots, upgrading both, transforms, cubics, glyphs, manastones, and that's not even all of it, because they're also going to need a PVE set. Oh and not to mention, the Luna game still exists, which is basically a credit card enabled slot machine. Meanwhile all the blatant p2w on the cash shop, from reset scrolls to stigma bundles, enchant stones. Arguing this game isn't P2W as shit is like, actually laughable.

You're being stubbornly ignorant. Every single thing you just listed out is completely doable within a respectable amount of time by an average player, let alone a veteran. That credit card slot machine? That can be used for free if you really wanted to and paying real money into it is a scam and everyone who actively plays knows that. There is no blatant P2W on the BCM, reset scrolls have always existed and seriously, what's so wrong with them? Stigma bundles, sure, $15 for 10 might be a solid deal for some of them whales out there, but considering we've just come off the back of an event which handed out hundreds if not thousands of stigma stones for free, and enchantment stones are easily obtainable with no real money/kinah investment at all. Low on kinah? Not a problem, kill some hidden mobs and do some instances, sell the gear. They literally just changed a super easy instance with guaranteed gear drops from 2 entries to 100... One hundred entries. Occasionally you can get Yornforged weapon drops from there too which commonly sell for 140-250mil on the broker. Legendary enchantment stones are what, 20? 30mil each?

There really is no excuse; The only things stopping you from progressing efficiently are time constraints from IRL, or you're just plain lazy, in which case get your wallet out, those INSANE P2W items on the BCM should be looking real tasty.

I mean, what's your ideal situation here? Are you hoping to achieve absolute peak performance in a shorter period of time than what it is now? I'll quote you from a different thread; 

On 5/28/2021 at 2:00 AM, Vinley-KT said:

My hope though is that they do some tweaking to slow down progression. By their last promotional statement they claimed to "understand problems that occurred" and have plans to fix them. Pretty generic but I feel like progression in general was crazy fast because veterans are just so experienced and are insanely efficient.

How slow is too slow? How fast is too fast?

[Vinley-KT]

13 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

You're being stubbornly ignorant. Every single thing you just listed out is completely doable within a respectable amount of time by an average player, let alone a veteran. That credit card slot machine? That can be used for free if you really wanted to and paying real money into it is a scam and everyone who actively plays knows that. There is no blatant P2W on the BCM, reset scrolls have always existed and seriously, what's so wrong with them? Stigma bundles, sure, $15 for 10 might be a solid deal for some of them whales out there, but considering we've just come off the back of an event which handed out hundreds if not thousands of stigma stones for free, and enchantment stones are easily obtainable with no real money/kinah investment at all. Low on kinah? Not a problem, kill some hidden mobs and do some instances, sell the gear. They literally just changed a super easy instance with guaranteed gear drops from 2 entries to 100... One hundred entries. Occasionally you can get Yornforged weapon drops from there too which commonly sell for 140-250mil on the broker. Legendary enchantment stones are what, 20? 30mil each?

There really is no excuse; The only things stopping you from progressing efficiently are time constraints from IRL, or you're just plain lazy, in which case get your wallet out, those INSANE P2W items on the BCM should be looking real tasty.

I mean, what's your ideal situation here? Are you hoping to achieve absolute peak performance in a shorter period of time than what it is now? I'll quote you from a different thread; 

How slow is too slow? How fast is too fast?

The difference in Classic is the progression was put on hyper speed because everyone knew exactly what to do in a new launch, and it created a dynamic where new players (which there were a ton) were on a completely different level to veterans, in what was undeniably a "new game launch."

It's different when its a game that is stagnant, because you need catch up mechanics for new and returning players. (Take a look at BDO as an example and their seasonal characters)

As far as everything else, look, I'd be glad for you to prove me wrong. Create a fresh account, get to 80, and make a video series showing me, and everyone else who avoids this game like the plague, that you can get to a point of PVP relevancy besides killing alts and bots in a few weeks. If what you're saying is true, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I don't play 7.0, or 7.9, never even bothered reading the patch notes for 7.9; but I have played all the way up to 6.0 and it has only ever gotten worse each patch, so I have a hard time believing the sugar coating you're going on about.

[Aelar-DN]

5 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

The difference in Classic is the progression was put on hyper speed because everyone knew exactly what to do in a new launch, and it created a dynamic where new players (which there were a ton) were on a completely different level to veterans, in what was undeniably a "new game launch"

As far as everything else, look, I'd be glad for you to prove me wrong. Create a fresh account, get to 80, and make a video series showing me, and everyone else who avoids this game like the plague, that you can get to a point of PVP relevancy besides killing alts and bots in a few weeks. If what you're saying is true, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I don't play 7.0, or 7.9, never even bothered reading the patch notes; but I have played all the way up to 6.0 and it has only ever gotten worse each patch, so I have a hard time believing the sugar coating you're going on about.

Point out where exactly I have sugar coated it?

[Vinley-KT]

13 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

Point out where exactly I have sugar coated it?

..? Is that not your entire counter argument to mine, saying i'm over reacting at the months it takes to become relevant in PVP as a new player? That you don't need to have alts, or spend 8hrs a day grinding? That you can get all of the things and upgrades I listed above, in just a few hours a day, and be competitive within a few weeks without spending insane amounts of money? If not, put a time stamp on it. Don't throw out arbitrary statements with no context attempting to dispute something without a realistic claim to back it up. There's a lot of complex amounts of things to upgrade, enchant and obtain. There's kinah caps and time restraints on players that don't spend money. So tell me, what exactly is your claim? We all know everything is achievable with time, that's not a real claim. Every game has things achievable with time. You're literally so brainwashed by P2W that you're calling it P2SST. I mean really?

Your version of P2W is literally that it's not achievable without spending money. Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous that sounds? Do you even have one game to give an example where that's even a thing? Because I can't think of a single one. If it takes the avg player 6 months to get an ultimate transform, and a P2W player can roll the dice in luna 500 times and get it in a day, that's not P2W to you? lmao... Just because it costs a lot it's all the sudden not P2W? You have any idea how much money P2W players spend? Do you know the income levels for the top P2W games? P2W Games are bringing in 50 million dollars a month these days. Why do you think NC has created these predatory systems? Why do you think the servers are still alive? Do you think they're alive because a few of the 400 remaining players spent $20 on a skin? Do you have any idea how much their servers costs from AWS? The amount they pay engineers and staff to maintain and upgrade them? People are spending a lot of money every day to outgear players, and it is and has always been what pushed people away from Aion in droves.

The game didn't go from 7M subscribers to 4500 active players across 3 regions (JP/KR/NA) for no reason. The game became a P2W nightmare, and every MMO community knows it. Defending that and pretending that everything is easily obtainable is almost offensive, and if it's the case, like I said, prove the entire MMO community wrong.

I loved aion, always have. Think it has the best mechanics among any PVP game i've ever played across any genre. But it's not in its current state because you can gear up as fast as you could in 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc... And you're trying to claim it is. By all means, prove us wrong, that's all i'm saying.

[Aelar-DN]

8 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

..? Is that not your entire counter argument to mine, saying i'm over reacting at the months it takes to become relevant in PVP as a new player? That you don't need to have alts, or spend 8hrs a day grinding? That you can get all of the things and upgrades I listed above, in just a few hours a day, and be competitive within a few weeks without spending insane amounts of money? If not, put a time stamp on it. Don't throw out arbitrary statements with no context attempting to dispute something without a realistic claim to back it up. There's a lot of complex amounts of things to upgrade, enchant and obtain. There's kinah caps and time restraints on players that don't spend money. So tell me, what exactly is your claim? We all know everything is achievable with time, that's not a real claim. Every game has things achievable with time. You're literally so brainwashed by P2W that you're calling it P2SST. I mean really?

Your version of P2W is literally that it's not achievable without spending money. Do you know how unbelievably ridiculous that sounds? Do you even have one game to give an example where that's even a thing? Because I can't think of a single one. If it takes the avg player 6 months to get an ultimate transform, and a P2W player can roll the dice in luna 500 times and get it in a day, that's not P2W to you? lmao... Just because it costs a lot it's all the sudden not P2W? You have any idea how much money P2W players spend? Do you know the income levels for the top P2W games? P2W Games are bringing in 50 million dollars a month these days. Why do you think NC has created these predatory systems? Why do you think the servers are still alive? Do you think they're alive because a few of the 400 remaining players spent $20 on a skin? Do you have any idea how much their servers costs from AWS? The amount they pay engineers and staff to maintain and upgrade them? People are spending a lot of money every day to outgear players, and it is and has always been what pushed people away from Aion in droves.

The game didn't go from 7M subscribers to 4500 active players across 3 regions (JP/KR/NA) for no reason. The game became a P2W nightmare, and every MMO community knows it. Defending that and pretending that everything is easily obtainable is almost offensive, and if it's the case, like I said, prove the entire MMO community wrong.

I loved aion, always have. Think it has the best mechanics among any PVP game i've ever played across any genre. But it's not in its current state because you can gear up as fast as you could in 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc... And you're trying to claim it is. By all means, prove us wrong, that's all i'm saying.

No no, instead of going on a tantrum, legitimately try and point out where exactly I've sugar coated Aion's apparent P2W problem.

[Squid]

17 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

If it takes the avg player 6 months to get an ultimate transform

Actually for me and it is the reason i am so in to playing classic Aion. The issue is the progression path. In classic if i want mira/fenris or even PvP gear i have to put effort in to the game's core mechanics. It may take me 6mo to get or it may take me 1mo to get but it all depends on the effort i put in.

When it comes to getting an ultimate transformation in 6mo you are having to rely on an event that NA may never put out again. There is no guarantee they want to continue with that event every 6mo and we have only had what 2 of them.

Beyond that they always use the storm wing event... that has came out 2 times and a year apart. If you start now you will not see that event for 10 mo- to a year more than likely.

@Aelar-DNTell me how many players have gotten ultimate transformations through core gameplay loop excluding being rewarded through events(because events are gifts to players for staying around for long enough in a game not a core gameplay loop)?

Edit: When the answer is well you just have to be around when a good event comes out and then you can catch up as the answer you know the game is going to have issues, Like vin said Live in KR is doing bad while classic has 7 servers.

[Vinley-KT]

3 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

No no, instead of going on a tantrum, legitimately try and point out where exactly I've sugar coated Aion's apparent P2W problem.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not.

You literally attempted to rebuttal every single thing I listed as P2W, from enchant stones to stigmas, to weapons, to the endless amounts of events with promotional items, to luna, claiming "yOu CaN uSe It FoR fReE", or "oBtAiN iT oVeR tImE" "jUsT fArM" I mean... really?

[Brutallus-DN]

6 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

No no, instead of going on a tantrum, legitimately try and point out where exactly I've sugar coated Aion's apparent P2W problem.

Not @Vinley-KT (idk them at all lol), but I believe your argument doesn't really make sense if we actually look at what super duper P2W people have. +10 prime runes/gems are impossible to get as a F2P person. Yes, I can do 30 fissures a day and actually WORK instead of playing the game for my own entertainment to have a chance at getting a +10 (where if it corrupts you're majorly nyerked), but is that really what the average player does? P2W people have most, if not all collections. High level paragon is another p2w thing, and they did put a ton of blessed/normal paragon stones on BCM so I wouldn't really count that as P2(whatever long abbreviation you have).

 

Oh and trying to unvalidate someone's opinion by calling it a tantrum isn't really helpful to your case 

[Aelar-DN]

2 minutes ago, Brutallus-DN said:

.

+10 prime runes/gems are impossible to get as a F2P person. Yes, I can do 30 fissures a day and actually WORK

Contradiction. And also, no average player is actively aiming for +10 primes and dazzlings. Getting the enchants for them, whether it's through exp marks or buying a pack of 10 for $15 is still subject to the same RNG bullshit regardless of what type of player you are. 

High level paragon is another p2w thing

Paragon existed before it was ever a thing on the BCM. The blessed were purchase limited and had the same success rates as regulars. In fact, during the Tiamaranta eye event period, the main source of blessed and regular stones alike were obtainable in huge quantities without spending a penny. 

Oh and trying to unvalidate someone's opinion by calling it a tantrum isn't really helpful to your case

I wasn't unvalidating, I was asking to see if they could successfully point out where exactly I have sugar coated Aion's monetization, of which he so far has not.

19 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

Tell me how many players have gotten ultimate transformations through core gameplay loop excluding being rewarded through events?

When the answer is well you just have to be around when a good event comes out and then you can catch up as the answer you know the game is going to have issues

I've never said that the transformation system is perfect, it misses the mark so hard and is just another mechanic NCSoft has added that does nothing but complicate and bloat the game. But it's here, and if you're actively playing Aion, then we must deal with it. 

Yeah, it does suck having to wait long periods for an event especially to acquire such an important thing. I came back to the game last July after a long break, I got my first Legendary via lugbug weeklies. By the time the first Ultimate promotion came around, I was a long way off being eligible, but they told is it would return. I spent that time between then up until March of this year acquiring all the free Legendaries from events, combining, and lugbug weeklies until I had enough and I was finally able to get Tiamat during the last promotion.

 

[Vinley-KT]

3 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

+10 prime runes/gems are impossible to get as a F2P person. Yes, I can do 30 fissures a day and actually WORK

Contradiction. And also, no average player is actively aiming for +10 primes and dazzlings. Getting the enchants for them, whether it's through exp marks or buying a pack of 10 for $15 is still subject to the same RNG bullshit regardless of what type of player you are. 

High level paragon is another p2w thing

Paragon existed before it was ever a thing on the BCM. The blessed were purchase limited and had the same success rates as regulars. In fact, during the Tiamaranta eye event period, the main source of blessed and regular stones alike were obtainable in huge quantities without spending a penny. 

Oh and trying to unvalidate someone's opinion by calling it a tantrum isn't really helpful to your case

I wasn't unvalidating, I was asking to see if they could successfully point out where exactly I have sugar coated Aion's monetization, of which he so far has not.

I've never said that the transformation system is perfect, it misses the mark so hard and is just another mechanic NCSoft has added that does nothing but complicate and bloat the game. But it's here, and if you're actively playing Aion, then we must deal with it. 

Yeah, it does suck having to wait long periods for an event especially to acquire such an important thing. I came back to the game last July after a long break, I got my first Legendary via lugbug weeklies. By the time the first Ultimate promotion came around, I was a long way off being eligible, but they told is it would return. I spent that time between then up until March of this year acquiring all the free Legendaries from events, combining, and lugbug weeklies until I had enough and I was finally able to get Tiamat during the last promotion.

 

Ok so we can end all this now; you've been playing for literally almost a year, and you're just now caught up to players who P2W'd their transforms. Is your gear fully completed? If not, what's left?

[Squid]

9 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

Yeah, it does suck having to wait long periods for an event especially to acquire such an important thing. I came back to the game last July after a long break, I got my first Legendary via lugbug weeklies. By the time the first Ultimate promotion came around, I was a long way off being eligible, but they told is it would return. I spent that time between then up until March of this year acquiring all the free Legendaries from events, combining, and lugbug weeklies until I had enough and I was finally able to get Tiamat during the last promotion.

 

I am just pointing out how you are sugar coating it.

[Brutallus-DN]

7 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

Paragon existed before it was ever a thing on the BCM. The blessed were purchase limited and had the same success rates as regulars. 

lol.

8 minutes ago, Aelar-DN said:

In fact, during the Tiamaranta eye event period, the main source of blessed and regular stones alike were obtainable in huge quantities without spending a penny. 

 

Wouldn't that fall again to the "I will farm all day every day to have the chance to catch up to people who spend tons of money"? That event was also for a month or so and there has not been another where paragon gear/stones have been """"easily"""" obtainable, what would a F2P player that wants to get paragon do now? 

[Vinley-KT]

6 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

I am just pointing out how you are sugar coating it.

Hes been doing it every post, pretty sure he doesn't know what sugar coating means, that's why I thought he was just trolling.

[ErzaScarletxFT]

51 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

If it takes the avg player 6 months to get an ultimate transform.

And It takes 6 Months only if you are a long time player who was saving up 12 legendays duplicates, and not to mention you need at least to have every single 10 old types legendarys Unlocked to start farming duplicates. if you are New or returning that doesnt take only "6 months" and again yes nc was giving more legendarys for free to everyone in the events but if you are not doing that event with alts or hard trying for the next promo you will not be able to get in only in 6 months. And if they told you as a new or returning player that only take 6 months thats basicaly "sugar coating" like you said.

[Vinley-KT]

4 minutes ago, ErzaScarletxFT said:

And It takes 6 Months only if you are a long time player who was saving up 12 legendays duplicates, and not to mention you need at least to have every single 10 old types legendarys Unlocked to start farming duplicates. if you are New or returning that doesnt take only "6 months" and again yes nc was giving more legendarys for free to everyone in the events but if you are not doing that event with alts or hard trying for the next promo you will not be able to get in only in 6 months. And if they told you as a new or returning player that only take 6 months thats basicaly "sugar coating" like you said.

Didn't know this, thanks. So basically, it takes like a year to get on even footing, if ever because its behind an eventwall that may or may not ever come back. AND on top of that despite him saying it wasn't needed you do need alts to even capitalize on the events. I don't understand how anyone can legitimately defend it at all. It's literally gross.

[ErzaScarletxFT]

16 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

Didn't know this, thanks. So basically, it takes like a year to get on even footing, if ever because its behind an eventwall that may or may not ever come back. AND on top of that despite him saying it wasn't needed you do need alts to even capitalize on the events. I don't understand how anyone can legitimately defend it at all. It's literally gross.

Hell , i even know f2p players friends who are playing daily this game like me all the time since the transform system was out in the 6.X and got their first ultimate xform 3 years later since 6.X thanks by this Ulti promo that nc introduced just because a pay 2 win was claiming out in the forums he just wasted almost 2k Usd $ buying legendarys to fuse and end up with 0 ultimate and 0 apostles and thats why we have promotions now thanks by that.

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

@Aelar-DN@Vinley-KT So this is going through the logic-loop that this discourse always does. The debate isn't about pay to win it's about how YOU, the individual, define an acceptable grind experience. The dialogue is always as follows:

Person 1: This is impossible.
Person 2: It's not impossible you just have to work hard.
Person 1: It's impossible because I don't want to work that hard.

That's not to say that Person 1 is lazy; but that they don't agree that the difficulty of the grind is worth the reward and/or their time. This discussion has been going on since pre-pay to win subscription-based Aion; the forums alight with people asking for nerfs and help while others call them lazy, noobs, entitled, etc etc.

@Aelar-DN's point that anything can be grinded is objectively true but @Vinley-KT's personal threshold/definition of an acceptable grind experience doesn't cover the time and effort needed for the reward he wants (being a top tier PVPer in a short period of time or something to that tune).

Neither of you are going to checkmate the other because you can't prove to someone that your personal (subjective) accepted level of grind is the true objective acceptable level. Similarly Person 2 cannot prove that Person 1's subjective personal threshold is wrong. You two werent even debating the same thing at the start; Aelar was just saying it can be done and Vinley was criticising the difficulty with which it can be done.

It's the same 11 year old debate about effort/reward in Aion just mistaken as a debate for/against pay to win

 

[Vinley-KT]

7 minutes ago, AriaTheMelodious-DN said:

@Aelar-DN@Vinley-KT So this is going through the logic-loop that this discourse always does. The debate isn't about pay to win it's about how YOU, the individual, define an acceptable grind experience. The dialogue is always as follows:

Person 1: This is impossible.
Person 2: It's not impossible you just have to work hard.
Person 1: It's impossible because I don't want to work that hard.

That's not to say that Person 1 is lazy; but that they don't agree that the difficulty of the grind is worth the reward and/or their time. This discussion has been going on since pre-pay to win subscription-based Aion; the forums alight with people asking for nerfs and help while others call them lazy, noobs, entitled, etc etc.

@Aelar-DN's point that anything can be grinded is objectively true but @Vinley-KT's personal threshold/definition of an acceptable grind experience doesn't cover the time and effort needed for the reward he wants (being a top tier PVPer in a short period of time or something to that tune).

Neither of you are going to checkmate the other because you can't prove to someone that your personal (subjective) accepted level of grind is the true objective acceptable level. Similarly Person 2 cannot prove that Person 1's subjective personal threshold is wrong. You two werent even debating the same thing at the start; Aelar was just saying it can be done and Vinley was criticising the difficulty with which it can be done.

It's the same 11 year old debate about effort/reward in Aion just mistaken as a debate for/against pay to win

 

Obviously, that's logical, but I think there is a certain threshold that any reasonable human would agree is beyond stupid. Making 8 alts for every event and waiting 6 months to get a transform, or grinding the same thing on 8 alts 3 hours a day to get a single upgrade, is I think pretty unreasonable to expect of anyone. There are certain thresholds we should be legitimately honest in presenting to people. Telling people you "Just have to grind" isn't honest. There's grind, and then there's going to universally ridiculous lengths just to reach a threshold certain players met by swiping a credit card for a few minutes. Presenting those differences honestly is my point, which is why I criticized his arbitrary, non-specific statements that didn't actually give realistic time or effort into what he was saying.

Also, this isn't something that's universal to every patch. 4.0 maybe, because it required EB spam and event spamming on alts to get temperings, and that was the start of this trend, but prior to that, aion never had that type of progression system. It only started when P2W became the main driving force of the games progression, and comparing that to classic or any earlier patch is not only wrong, but laughable.

[AriaTheMelodious-DN]

8 minutes ago, Vinley-KT said:

Obviously, that's logical, but I think there is a certain threshold that any reasonable human would agree is beyond stupid. Making 8 alts for every event and waiting 6 months to get a transform, or grinding the same thing on 8 alts 3 hours a day to get a single upgrade, is I think pretty unreasonable to expect of anyone. There are certain thresholds we should be legitimately honest in presenting to people. Telling people you "Just have to grind" isn't honest. There's grind, and then there's going to universally ridiculous lengths just to reach a threshold certain players met by swiping a credit card for a few minutes. Presenting those differences honestly is my point, which is why I criticized his arbitrary, non-specific statements that didn't actually give realistic time or effort into what he was saying.

Also, this isn't something that's universal to every patch. 4.0 maybe, because it required EB spam and event spamming on alts to get temperings, and that was the start of this trend, but prior to that, aion never had that type of progression system. It only started when P2W became the main driving force of the games progression, and comparing that to classic or any earlier patch is not only wrong, but laughable.

I appreciate your measured response but it's just more of the same "in my opinion this is too much". I'm not debating what is and isn't too much, I'm just pointing out the cyclical nature of this faux debate. You make fine points here and there and somestimes you're a bit off base or inaccurate with how long some things might take but literally NONE of that matters because you cannot prove to someone that their subjective grind tolerance is unreasonable. There's a reason this debate has been going on 11 years and never reached a definitive conclusion