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Nadiko-DN

Chanter Healers VS clerics

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hello every one i mainly play my chanter. im trying to get her to 75 and i play her full support because i want to be main healer. but every one always brings in a cleric and i normally out heal them the only thing they have on me are AOE heals. im probably the fastest chanter healer in that very few healers even clerics can switch targets as fast as i do. by no means am i claiming to be gods gift to healers. and granted there are some dungeon fights that clearly are cleric testing fights and would seriously test even the most skilled chanter healers. now chanter healers are single target healers so my ability to switch group members every 2 sec comes in handy and because i can switch group members every 2 sec i can heal up to 2 targets at a time better then your average support chanter which can normally only do 1 now please dont take this the wrong way im just saying that this is how good i am i can prove it in any dungeon so why is it no one will let me i advertise in chat that im a healer not a DPS yet the group still picks up a cleric when i duo or even trio i always look for 1 or 2 more DPS because i plan on being the healer because i know im just as viable as any cleric and some times its even hard just to find a group why is it people hate chanter healers?

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Nyali-DN   

Hi Hi, I wouldn't say that people hate chanters as healers. I played chanter myself for many years until I decided to switch to being a cleric for several reasons. It really depends on the situations for example which instance you are running, healing in PvP groups etc.

I personally love healing in a combination with a chanter when it's needed. Also believe that chanters are great for duoing many things. I'd suggest you to make sure to let your group know in certain instances that you are confident main healing it, especially in random groups. :3

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May I ask why you have chosen to play chanter -- a class with many jobs to perform -- when all you want to do is heal? It seems that cleric would have been a better pick for you. I hope my question doesn't seem rude; I don't mean it to be. Just curious what your thought process is. :)

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Aly-DN   

It's pretty simple. Chanters are single target healers, which makes them great as a back-up healer in those "Oh Sh*t" moments. Clerics are just more versatile healers. They have a wider range of single target heals. They have multiple AOE heals. They have several skills that boost their healing skills. And the biggest reason cleric heals > chanter heals is that clerics can dispel.. and dispel with no cd continuously.

A good chanter can solo heal the easier instances, but hands down at end game a cleric will always beat out a chanter for heals.

That isn't to say that a support chanter has no place in end game groups. Quite the contrary, as a support cleric, I love nothing better than a really good support chanter in PvE and PvP. In fact I absolutely -loathe- a chanter who freaking refuses to support heal when needed. "I'm dps!" Yeah. Sure. Let's wipe because you refused to toss a heal. "If I res, my dps goes down!" Sweetheart, your dps is already going to be lower than most of the pure dps classes. It's more important that I keep the rest of the group alive and you take a few seconds to res someone than I stop healing to res and more people die. I am aware that there are a few chanters that are amazing dps, but they are few and far between.

Just like Vantheria asks the OP why they didn't chose a cleric when all they wanted to do was heal, I would love to ask all "I am only dps!" chanters why they didn't chose a pure dps class if all they wanted to do was dps? Chanter is a great class. They can do just about anything and enhance any group they join. But being a Jack-Of-All-Trades, they are really master of none of them.

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1 hour ago, Vantheria-DN said:

May I ask why you have chosen to play chanter -- a class with many jobs to perform -- when all you want to do is heal? It seems that cleric would have been a better pick for you. I hope my question doesn't seem rude; I don't mean it to be. Just curious what your thought process is. :)

im mainly a healing type player i love to heal and i do have a cleric but when i play my cleric yeah it has allot of heals but i noticed that. thats pretty much all the cleric is theres no machanic behind the cleric its just a bunch of heals thrown in there where so many heals i didnt know what to do with them all and im already experienced at playing a full support chanter i have a set up that lets me switch between group members in a matter of seconds 1.5 to 2 i can switch group members so fast that im actually healing 2 people at a time i even got word of life just so i have an aoe heal lol and i do use it now im trying to get elemental screen ive used it before and i know its an amazing shield especially in pvp i love how many shields the chanter gets 1 self only shield and 3 group shields i really enjoy the chanter healer play style as a single target healer you really have to stay on your toes just to keep up with clerics and with my set up im able to do that successfully though there are some boss fights i have a hard time with  and clerics dont get a heal over time like chanters do recovery spell is just amazing and the casting speed on a cleric compared to a chanters casting speed theres just no comparison chanters cast their heals allot faster then a cleric does i couldnt take the clerics slow casting speed with my chanter i already have a heal on you before the cleric even gets his/her heals off the only disadvantage of being a chanter healer is we dont get a decent AOE heal if we did there would be no need for clerics 

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I think part of your dissatisfaction with cleric is your lack of knowledge/experience in the class. Or maybe you haven't leveled one up very high?

23 minutes ago, Nadiko-DN said:

clerics dont get a heal over time like chanters do

Clerics have more than one heal over time skill -- both for the whole group and single target.

24 minutes ago, Nadiko-DN said:

i have a set up that lets me switch between group members in a matter of seconds 1.5 to 2 i can switch group members so fast that im actually healing 2 people at a time

By using keybinds (F1-F6), you can easily switch group members on any class. It's not specific to only chanters; you can do it on clerics or gunslingers or anyone.

As Aly said, chanter healing is very viable in the lowbie instances. But in endgame instances, such as CoE, ToE, BoS, a chanter is no replacement for a cleric. A cleric's heals will always be stronger -- restore more HP -- and that's how it's supposed to be. Chanters are there to support the cleric, pop shields at appropriate times, buff the party with HP buffs, Word of Instigation, and mantras (and know when to switch between celerity and revival), and debuff the boss with slowing attacks and stuns. By only healing, you are not providing these extra services that are, dare I say, *required* of endgame chanters.

I don't want to dissuade you from playing the class the way you like. After all, this is a game, and you should have fun. I only say all of this to help answer your original question of why people bring clerics when they have you. The answer is that they are expecting you to perform all of the functions of your class, and you cannot successfully do that if you are only healing.

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2 hours ago, Vantheria-DN said:

I think part of your dissatisfaction with cleric is your lack of knowledge/experience in the class. Or maybe you haven't leveled one up very high?

Clerics have more than one heal over time skill -- both for the whole group and single target.

By using keybinds (F1-F6), you can easily switch group members on any class. It's not specific to only chanters; you can do it on clerics or gunslingers or anyone.

As Aly said, chanter healing is very viable in the lowbie instances. But in endgame instances, such as CoE, ToE, BoS, a chanter is no replacement for a cleric. A cleric's heals will always be stronger -- restore more HP -- and that's how it's supposed to be. Chanters are there to support the cleric, pop shields at appropriate times, buff the party with HP buffs, Word of Instigation, and mantras (and know when to switch between celerity and revival), and debuff the boss with slowing attacks and stuns. By only healing, you are not providing these extra services that are, dare I say, *required* of endgame chanters.

I don't want to dissuade you from playing the class the way you like. After all, this is a game, and you should have fun. I only say all of this to help answer your original question of why people bring clerics when they have you. The answer is that they are expecting you to perform all of the functions of your class, and you cannot successfully do that if you are only healing.

my cleric is level 65 what i dont like is that cleric casting speed is extremely slow and the lack of strong enough hots and you go ahead and use your F keys for target swapping ill already have changed my target and have them healed before you can even reach for your F keys using F keys are outdated and just not fast enough the time it takes for you to reach for your F key then press what ever key to pop your heal is just to long ill have already heal the target and moved to the next im not saying im better then you im just saying i have different methods which i find to be more effective 

Edited by Nadiko-DN

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Aly-DN   
18 minutes ago, Nadiko-DN said:

my cleric is level 65 what i dont like is that cleric casting speed is extremely slow and the lack of strong enough hots and you go ahead and use your F keys for target swapping ill already have changed my target and have them healed before you can even reach for your F keys using F keys are outdated and just not fast enough the time it takes for you to reach for your F key then press what ever key to pop your heal is just to long ill have already heal the target and moved to the next im not saying im better then you im just saying i have different methods which i find to be more effective 

This is because you are not a cleric main. I guarantee you that my cleric's cast time beats your chanter's cast time into the dust. And I can guarantee you that I can have the whole party healed to full health before you can switch to your second target. I also guarantee you that I can put out a stronger heal over time than you can on your chanter. I probably can't beat a heal spec songweaver for single target HoT strength, but I can beat a chanter.

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chanters get the strongest single target hot in the game recovery spell and AOE heals dont make you a better player they give tools for different situations and just because you have more tools available to you doesnt make you a better mechanic your ability to use those tools in the right situations is what makes you a better mechanic and chanters get an AOE heal to its called word of life it might not be the greatest but its not the worst either and its the only AOE heal chanters get so your casting an AOE heal to beat my ability to switch targets is invalid i can cast an AOE heal to

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Aly-DN   

Nope. A songweaver's hot can beat a chanter's single target hot.

A chanter's aoe heal is lame. nyerk ass lame. Horrible. Not even noticeable when compared to a Noble Graced Splendor of Recovery +8.. which is not only a huge aoe heal but a hefty hot as well. And that's just one of my aoe heals. I have a big one that is a cleanse as well. And another that speeds up all healing spells for a time making all my heals faster while it's under effect.

You have a mantra that will give you a stronger heal boost, but it is nowhere near what a cleric running benev and using one of our three heal buffs gets. So your heals are lesser than a clerics. They just are. That's a fact.

I am not saying you are a bad chanter, but as a chanter you are a crappy cleric. You will never be a cleric. Then again.. that isn't your role.

Edited by Aly-DN

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24 minutes ago, Nadiko-DN said:

just because you have more tools available to you doesnt make you a better mechanic your ability to use those tools in the right situations is what makes you a better mechanic

Very true. Irrelevant here though because Aly is a hella good cleric haha. But anyway...

13 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

A chanter's aoe heal is lame.

This. Word of Life only restores about 4000 HP over time. For a level 60 toon? Yeah, that's not bad. For a level 70 toon? Meh. Okay, but not great. For a level 75 toon? Pfft. I cast it when it becomes available because it's similar to people using HoT potions. It's a tiny bit of help for them, and it's insta-cast, so it's not taking time away from my other duties as a chanter. It's certainly not a good healing solution though, and I definitely wouldn't depend upon it. Furthermore, it cannot be +ed up in the daeva skills tab because it's a stigma. So it cannot be improved any.

15 minutes ago, Aly-DN said:

You have a mantra that will give you a stronger heal boost, but it is nowhere near what a cleric running benev and using one of our three heal buffs gets. So your heals are lesser than a clerics. They just are. That's a fact.

Again, correct. For healing, I use a cleric's Apollon set, so I have a small amount of healing boost (175ish). But that 175ish? It's nothing compared to a cleric who has Benevolence running plus one of their heal buffs, as Aly mentions. Chanters are not meant to be clerics in endgame -- because we have clerics.

 

Nadiko, it seemed as if you wanted to ask people why groups want to take clerics. We answered that -- in detail -- but you are still trying to argue the point. I guess I'm confused about the ultimate purpose of this thread. Part of your confusion about cleric stems from the fact that your cleric is only level 65. That's a low level to fully understand how important cleric is in endgame content.

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In healing perspective yes chanters can never heal whole group better than clerics but don't forget chanters have BS,WoI,ES,Shield,Mantra,WoW a lot of buffs that will boost group DPS to a whole new level.In my opinion they meant to support each other.

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Sunix-DN   

Clerics have better heals, its a fact. But another fact is that they're a really really boring healing class. You have to cast 90% of your heals, you have to stick in your defensive sets 90% of your time and everything looks slow. Also, except for the really end game instances, you won't find any challenge healing as a cleric. NCsoft made it so easy for clerics that you can heal in CL stigma build if you want to.

But if you want dynamics and challenge, stick to your chanter.  Chanter play style > Cleric play style.

Anyways, a cleric will be a better healer all day every day, in any case or situation. Chanters nor Songweavers can heal better than a Cleric.

In most cases, chanters can provide support while just -and only- dpsing. You're not supposed to heal, also you're not supposed to be a back-up healer anymore in most cases. Thats not the chanter's role anymore. We're more than just mini-clerics now. Your heals aren't great as the cleric ones, they're single-target focused. You cannot dispel and most of the really needed support skills come in form of instant casts. I mean Word of Instigation/Inspiration/Protection, Word of Life, Protection Ward, Perfect Shield, Curtain of Light and WoQ. You better save your heals for self-healing purposes and let the cleric take care of your group HP while you provide wonderful buffs and help (a lot) dpsing.

Also, now chanters have their own version of Noble Grace in a lower CD. Protection Ward provides 50% healing effect boost to your group and it scales up with the 10% you get from Revival Mantra.
 

Most of the @Aly-DN concept of chanters can be labeled 'old' nowadays. We changed a lot with 4.8 skill changes and Archdaeva Skills.

Chanters used to be the underdogs of this game for years and years. They used to be very lacklusters as a support/priest class and bottom tier as a PVP/solo class.

BUT, this is the first time in 7-8 years of Aion you will see people calling chanters  "broken" or "overpowered". There is a 10 page thread on EU forums complaining about how broken chanters are in 5.3 ~ 5.8. Most of the PVP-focused players will put chanters on the top tier of the patch we play right now. And we're just rocking and fine for PVE purposes.

 

11 hours ago, Vantheria-DN said:
11 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

 

A chanter's aoe heal is lame. nyerk ass lame. Horrible. Not even noticeable when compared to a Noble Graced Splendor of Recovery +8.. which is not only a huge aoe heal but a hefty hot as well. And that's just one of my aoe heals. I have a big one that is a cleanse as well. And another that speeds up all healing spells for a time making all my heals faster while it's under effect.

 

This. Word of Life only restores about 4000 HP over time. For a level 60 toon? Yeah, that's not bad. For a level 70 toon? Meh. Okay, but not great. For a level 75 toon? Pfft. I cast it when it becomes available because it's similar to people using HoT potions. It's a tiny bit of help for them, and it's insta-cast, so it's not taking time away from my other duties as a chanter. It's certainly not a good healing solution though, and I definitely wouldn't depend upon it. Furthermore, it cannot be +ed up in the daeva skills tab because it's a stigma. So it cannot be improved any.

 

 

You're both bein' rude or just ignorant.

I have 246 healing boost and +8 Word of Life that base heals 691 every 2s during 10s. If you sum Healing Boost plus Revival Mantra boost and Protection Ward, it will tick 1.392 HP every 2s during 10s. Wich means something like 8.357 HP AoE heal.

For a non-cleric skill this value is pretty good, I would risk to say its awesome. 

Word of Life is a must have skill in every chanter's build IF YOU KNOW how and where to use it. If you don't know, just pop it every time the CD runs out like Vantheria :P

 

11 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Nope. A songweaver's hot can beat a chanter's single target hot.

Songweavers can't beat Chanter's single target HoT. lol

Soothing Melody chain isn't a HoT at all, a songweaver must cast every step of the chain and they're all multiple/different skills.

Hymn of Rejuvenation and Thanksgiving cannot beat Recovery Spell HoT effect.

Looks like you know nothing about chanters.

Edited by Sunix-DN

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Sunix-DN   

Did some testings and the tick of Word of Life is even higher than the one I posted here.

It ticks 1.414 every 2s. Wich results in more than 7k AoE Heal.

If you chain it with Recovery Spell, you get a freaking high HoT recovery.

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On 1/10/2018 at 10:58 PM, Nadiko-DN said:

hello every one i mainly play my chanter. im trying to get her to 75 and i play her full support because i want to be main healer. but every one always brings in a cleric and i normally out heal them the only thing they have on me are AOE heals. im probably the fastest chanter healer in that very few healers even clerics can switch targets as fast as i do. by no means am i claiming to be gods gift to healers. and granted there are some dungeon fights that clearly are cleric testing fights and would seriously test even the most skilled chanter healers. now chanter healers are single target healers so my ability to switch group members every 2 sec comes in handy and because i can switch group members every 2 sec i can heal up to 2 targets at a time better then your average support chanter which can normally only do 1 now please dont take this the wrong way im just saying that this is how good i am i can prove it in any dungeon so why is it no one will let me i advertise in chat that im a healer not a DPS yet the group still picks up a cleric when i duo or even trio i always look for 1 or 2 more DPS because i plan on being the healer because i know im just as viable as any cleric and some times its even hard just to find a group why is it people hate chanter healers?

Unfortunately, I would not recommend the chanter class if you intend to play as a full-time healer. As some of the responses in this thread imply, chanters are no longer the "support class" they were many years ago thanks to the Aion 4.8 skill update. They are more accurately described as a "burst-supporting utility class" that shares similar roles to templars and songweavers. 

We have amazing shields, group buffs, single-target burst-heals, and the best physical crowd control in the game. We unfortunately have mediocre DPS and TERRIBLE HPS.

I went into more detail in another thread regarding the flaws of being a one-trick pony for this class, but generally speaking, both full-time support chanters and full-time dps chanters fall into the trap of using only a subset of their skills instead of being flexible enough to use all of them. It's like a ranger who doesn't know how to use traps or an SM who can't fear.

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5 hours ago, Sunix-DN said:

You're both bein' rude or just ignorant.

I apologize if I was rude. It wasn't my intention.

5 hours ago, Sunix-DN said:

I have [...] +8 Word of Life that base heals 691 every 2s during 10s

This does, indeed, make it better. However, a +8 stigma is not the norm -- unless NCwest decides to give us the stigma enchanting event and/or special stones that other regions had. Most of us do not have RNG that lucky. Good for you that you do though. :)

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Aly-DN   

I thought the same thing, @Vantheria-DN.

The OP asked why they aren't being considered as a main healer, the role they wish to play as a chanter. Most of the posters (myself included) went out of their way to talk about how great a class chanters are and what role they actually do play. The OP went out of their way to try and debunk the reasons we all gave as to why groups are not taking them as a main healer to the point of ridiculousness. 

As a cleric I have three HB boosting skills and that's on top of me sitting at just shy of 590 HB in my PvE set. My armor (like a songweaver's) has HB built into it. I chanter who wants to be more effective as support needs to get cleric gear which gives them magic boost and not att/crit so while wearing it their dps is further nerfed, while I can toss my uber servent and a few other instant cast dps skills while still maintaining great heals. I have several hefty AOE heals that also give a second effect (groups dispel, decrease cast time on future heals, a hefty HOT). I can instant cast group dispel. I can instant cast single target dispel with no cd. My cast time is not slow and I have zero idea where this idea is coming from, though it's been said twice now. A chanter just can't compete with all of that for the harder instances. They just can't. They aren't clerics. Wanting to be one is what is causing the OP concern.

Chanters are awesome when you look at them as chanters! I usually run with a wonderful support chanter. He knows when to step in with support heals. He knows when to pop his shields and extra buffs. He knows when I have it handled and jumps right in to dps. He doesn't complain about being asked to go support. When he does go dps, he still watches what's going on and tosses a heal when needed and resses. He makes all our groups better. He makes me a better cleric and he makes all the pure dps better dps. 

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Sunix-DN   
2 hours ago, Aly-DN said:


 

 

As a cleric I have three HB boosting skills and that's on top of me sitting at just shy of 590 HB in my PvE set. My armor (like a songweaver's) has HB built into it. I chanter who wants to be more effective as support needs to get cleric gear which gives them magic boost and not att/crit so while wearing it their dps is further nerfed, while I can toss my uber servent and a few other instant cast dps skills while still maintaining great heals. I have several hefty AOE heals that also give a second effect (groups dispel, decrease cast time on future heals, a hefty HOT). I can instant cast group dispel. I can instant cast single target dispel with no cd. My cast time is not slow and I have zero idea where this idea is coming from, though it's been said twice now. A chanter just can't compete with all of that for the harder instances. They just can't. They aren't clerics. Wanting to be one is what is causing the OP concern.

 

 

That's why we have smart macros now. As a casual healer you don't have wear a Healing Boost set all the time. That will never be a real problem for support chanters.

I don't even bother farming new healing sets. Still use my Kahrun one that gives more Healing Boost than any Songweaver's support set. :P

 

The truth is: A chanter cannot stand alone as a Group-wide healer, neither songweavers can. Yet, they're never meant to be one.

Also they're not supposed to be a minor cleric (or a crappy cleric like you said).  They're more buffers than healers.

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Aly-DN   
20 minutes ago, Sunix-DN said:

 

That's why we have smart macros now. As a casual healer you don't have wear a Healing Boost set all the time. That will never be a real problem for support chanters.

I don't even bother farming new healing sets. Still use my Kahrun one that gives more Healing Boost than any Songweaver's support set. :P

 

The truth is: A chanter cannot stand alone as a Group-wide healer, neither songweavers can. Yet, they're never meant to be one.

Also they're not supposed to be a minor cleric (or a crappy cleric like you said).  They're more buffers than healers.

Which was the point of the all the answers to the OP. The OP is wondering why no one wants to take them as the main, group-wide healer.

 

3 minutes ago, Bryos-KT said:

Aly shouted at me for using my Kahrun set in BoS. :P

I absolutely did. Your HP was fine but you died the moment a mob so much as looked at you. Why? KAHRUN SET! Yes. It looked good, but it is far too outdated to work as any sort of set in BoS.

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Sunix-DN   

Did all my BoS wearing my kahrun set, never was a problem

10 minutes ago, Bryos-KT said:

Aly shouted at me for using my Kahrun set in BoS. :P

they did another support set for chanters, back in 4.5 when they added Illuminary Obelisk. But the gloves gives Attack Speed. lul

That's why I will stick in my Kahrun til the end of this game. It never get out of style and still useful.

Edited by Sunix-DN

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Aly-DN   
1 hour ago, Sunix-DN said:

Did all my BoS wearing my kahrun set, never was a problem

they did another support set for chanters, back in 4.5 when they added Illuminary Obelisk. But the gloves gives Attack Speed. lul

That's why I will stick in my Kahrun til the end of this game. It never get out of style and still useful.

Props to your clerics.

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Jayda-KT   

I don't know about the chanters ya'll be going with. But I still heal in an IO set with apollon cast speed gloves. With a Vasharti shield and marchutan mace with full +5 heal boost manastones. Accessories/wings are harvesters. And I get about 26k HP and 390 heal boost. I don't have problems surviving (cuz chanter with shields), and in fact clerics usually die before I do. I have a tendency to carry 75% of the coe groups I pug into, to which I really need to stop doing, not good for my health lol. Clerics are the battery that keep the group running, chanters are the glue to keep the group together. At least that's how I see it. I prefer not to have to hold a cleric's hand in an instance and lemme do my job(s).

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i left because i got tired of fighting with whats his name constantly trying to 1 up me i played in closed beta my main at first was a Ranger i didnt like the class stopped playing it and started playing chanter i did so well at it that i really enjoyed it and was having fun im sorry for being rude it was not my intent i dont expect to main heal 12 man raids or anything but very few people will let me main heal standard dungeons this is my problem i have word of life by the way i had no idea it eventually got that good thats nice to know i understand you guys have your reasons for your point of view on chanters main healing i recently was in an OW run where i was main healer it was 2v2 my self and a song weaver VS i dont know what kind of asmos but we ended up winning coming out of the BG with 15K bonus AP and normally i do go for cleric gear and i know this gimps my melee DPS but im okay with that i even go as far to main mace and shield as my main hand weapons the cast speed from the mace does actually help with my heals casting speed + awakening scrolls how ever for chanters their is a casting speed cap which can only be surpassed when you use WOQ and or WOW i dont know what the cap currently is but it is there so yes clerics casting speed may very well surpass chanters non the less if you can reach that casting speed cap on a chanter + HB gear you should be a solid Healer this has been my experience in the past but peoples view on chanters healing seems to have changed as for my self ive always been the type to swim up stream or to go against the grain i do good as a support chanter i did a dredg run we had a cleric but people were dying i actually had to step in and start healing and when i did people stopped dying and the clerics used AOE heals when they could but they still couldnt keep up with my single target healing now when a cleric cant keep up with a heal spec chanter you know your doing some thing right am i wrong?

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