Week 4, 16 FM runs

[Ele-DN]

Nothing. why even bother? Yet there players with a most a full armor set. +15 master harvester in 5.8 is a complete waste of resources since i literally got what my main got for exchanged in a day on my alt... like serously..

[Kinetika-KT]

Remember how in 5.8 there was only 1 Harvester weapon or armour piece drop per ally of 12 in BoS. And nothing at all aside from soulstones in FM.

[Mirei-KT]

1 hour ago, Afterglow-KT said:

Remember how in 5.8 there was only 1 Harvester weapon or armour piece drop per ally of 12 in BoS. And nothing at all aside from soulstones in FM.

BoS started dropping those Harvester Soulstones pretty fast after its introduction. That way you could still progress even if you didn't get a harvester drop per se, as you could just +15 an Apollon piece and then purify it. But such a means of (alternative) progression is absent for PvE in 6.2; it is is purely RNG based.

@Cyan Similar to what was done with BoS, please add a token drop or something to the final bosses of FM/BoS & setup an NPC where said tokens can be exchanged for the Voidsoul gear pieces. In other words, a means of guaranteed progression. It is just silly to have people who finish Nergal in under 2 minutes, but can't move on to PF/IDD due to losing rolls or their gear pieces not dropping...and thus sit there twisting their thumbs for the rest of the week. There are many PvE-oriented folks who are already contemplating quitting because of the double-layered RNG factor, something needs to be done if you wish to retain these people for the game.

[Edmond-KT]

2 hours ago, Mirei-KT said:

BoS started dropping those Harvester Soulstones pretty fast after its introduction. That way you could still progress even if you didn't get a harvester drop per se, as you could just +15 an Apollon piece and then purify it. But such a means of (alternative) progression is absent for PvE in 6.2; it is is purely RNG based.

@Cyan Similar to what was done with BoS, please add a token drop or something to the final bosses of FM/BoS & setup an NPC where said tokens can be exchanged for the Voidsoul gear pieces. In other words, a means of guaranteed progression. It is just silly to have people who finish Nergal in under 2 minutes, but can't move on to PF/IDD due to losing rolls or their gear pieces not dropping...and thus sit there twisting their thumbs for the rest of the week. There are many PvE-oriented folks who are already contemplating quitting because of the double-layered RNG factor, something needs to be done if you wish to retain these people for the game.

I think the drop rate and the roll is ok, actually, i would even lower the drop rate. What i think that should be changed is:

1. Make the items tradeable, it has absolutely no sense that 99% of the game items can't be traded (by normal trade, broker or whatever way).
2. Change the entry system from 4/week to 1/day in all instances. It would increase a bit the amount of "things to do".

[Aly-DN]

I think the drop rate is fine and I actually like that the items are untradeable. 

Gearing has always been RNG based and there is no need to gear super quick. If you make the gear tradeable, we will be right back to where we were before with people that look super geared on paper but suck eggs because they bought all their gear.. or got it in events. If someone is wearing legendary instance gear now, you can reasonably assume that they know what they are doing. Untradeable gear stops most ninja looting, as well.

Plus.. a legendary orb dropped in my BoS run the other week and we didn't have a sorc/sm so we ffa-ed it. I won and vendored the orb. I got almost 7 mill! With kinah more difficult to get than in the past, that was a nice surprise.

[Vantheria-DN]

1 hour ago, Aly-DN said:

I won and vendored the orb. I got almost 7 mill! With kinah more difficult to get than in the past, that was a nice surprise.

Hmm, interesting. I got a ffa legendary plate piece last night in FM and ended up DE-ing it. I'll remember to vendor those instead in the future. Thanks for the tip.

[GenericUser11258]

7 hours ago, Afterglow-KT said:

Remember how in 5.8 there was only 1 Harvester weapon or armour piece drop per ally of 12 in BoS. And nothing at all aside from soulstones in FM.

This is another stupid thing. Why only one person is rewarded for a 2 group effort in finishing. This kind of decisions of the devs are stupid. It should drop a chest for each person that helped/worked to get the thing done.

3 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

I think the drop rate is fine and I actually like that the items are untradeable. 

Gearing has always been RNG based and there is no need to gear super quick.

I have to disagree with this. I am seeing lots of LFG <XXXXX> geared only. Ppl that can't gear themselves so quick will be left behind at a point that it will be near impossible to catch-up.

[Shirayuki-DN]

6 hours ago, Mirei-KT said:

It is just silly to have people who finish Nergal in under 2 minutes, but can't move on to PF/IDD due to losing rolls or their gear pieces not dropping...and thus sit there twisting their thumbs for the rest of the week.

Wait, your telling me there are players who finish Nergal in under 2 minutes (I assume they have compensation gear) and your telling me these guys can't do/move on to PF/IDD with said compensation gear that can finish Nergal in under 2 minutes when there is already a video out there where some guys from ek server (probably in ancients and a couple legendaries) finished PF?

1 hour ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Hmm, interesting. I got a ffa legendary plate piece last night in FM and ended up DE-ing it. I'll remember to vendor those instead in the future. Thanks for the tip.

Never ever DE PvE gear, from my own experience, your never ever going to run out of manastone fasteners, in fact you will be flooded with them.

7 minutes ago, Adriel-EK said:

This is another stupid thing. Why only one person is rewarded for a 2 group effort in finishing. This kind of decisions of the devs are stupid. It should drop a chest for each person that helped/worked to get the thing done.

Yea I agree, they should make it like Infinity Shard.

[Azzmaria-KT]

Actually before 4.X we did not have boxes for each one. Bosses gave random gear and was class roll. The main difference was that those instances usually had many bosses and we had chances for drop on all of them, yet the drop rates for each one was smaller. In good runs we had 3 or 4 usefull items and in bad ones we got nothing at all (not a single eternal item). 

maybe now is harder than those times... Thos einstances required time but weren´t so dependant on gear, and to be honest we had a lot more patience with new players and having to try some minibosses many times. 

About the gear, I think we have something like lvls now. We can get some ancient gear from Mirash, CoE and the stones from camps (we have a PvE option to buy with those too). 
With that we can go to legendary instances and try to get our pinks. And after that the last stage with the ultimate instances. Yet, I think experience and knowing how to play can provide you some benefits and maybe you do not require all that gear. 

[Aly-DN]

1 hour ago, Adriel-EK said:

*snip*

I have to disagree with this. I am seeing lots of LFG <XXXXX> geared only. Ppl that can't gear themselves so quick will be left behind at a point that it will be near impossible to catch-up.

I don't run in LFG groups unless I am making the group and we just need one person. My best advice is to find a friendly legion and run with them. Legionmates will often carry someone who doesn't have the best gear as long as they have a good attitude and a brain. I know I have.

Though, yes. I do see those groups that specify "geared". Not sure what I would do if I didn't have my legionmates. =S

[Jaimie-KT]

Do you remember Eternal Bastion?  A 24 person instance with one mythic drop?  At least you're only rolling against a few people in your groups currently.  I understand your frustration, I really REALLY do.  I ran about 20 FM/BoS since the patch started and only just last night got my first legendary piece.  None of us are meant to have ALL the gear 3 weeks into the patch, though sometimes it feels like people we play with have entire sets from the instances lol.  

I'm glad that the gear isn't tradeable.  I'm glad that we haven't had some sort of OP event that you can get Ultimate pve gear from the instances.  It's meant to be a grind.  I like that we have to play the game to get the items from the game.  Don't get me wrong, it's nice to be able to walk up to the broker, drop a billion kinah and get the gear you want.  But you haven't really earned it that way.  It's great to get a sexy drop from an event, but again that's not how we're supposed to get the gear.  I hope that in a couple of months they don't put out some sort of an event that makes playing the game a waste of time, because that would be a shame.

Now, if we could just sort out the enchantment rates or at the very least MY enchantment rates..... 

[Ele-DN]

12 hours ago, Afterglow-KT said:

Remember how in 5.8 there was only 1 Harvester weapon or armour piece drop per ally of 12 in BoS. And nothing at all aside from soulstones in FM.

Uh... that was 5.5. And the item was tradeable so if they had extras, they could sell it or someone buying it if they didn't feel like doing the instance. 

 

45 minutes ago, Jaimie-KT said:

Do you remember Eternal Bastion?  A 24 person instance with one mythic drop?  At least you're only rolling against a few people in your groups currently.  I understand your frustration, I really REALLY do.  I ran about 20 FM/BoS since the patch started and only just last night got my first legendary piece.  None of us are meant to have ALL the gear 3 weeks into the patch, though sometimes it feels like people we play with have entire sets from the instances lol.  

I'm glad that the gear isn't tradeable.  I'm glad that we haven't had some sort of OP event that you can get Ultimate pve gear from the instances.  It's meant to be a grind.  I like that we have to play the game to get the items from the game.  Don't get me wrong, it's nice to be able to walk up to the broker, drop a billion kinah and get the gear you want.  But you haven't really earned it that way.  It's great to get a sexy drop from an event, but again that's not how we're supposed to get the gear.  I hope that in a couple of months they don't put out some sort of an event that makes playing the game a waste of time, because that would be a shame.

Now, if we could just sort out the enchantment rates or at the very least MY enchantment rates..... 

EB is ap/GP/medal farm.. not gear.

[Jaimie-KT]

2 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

EB is ap/GP/medal farm.. not gear.

No no.  There was a time when people wanted the actual gear from EB.  Don't kid yourself lol.  People would actually fight over it if someone ninja rolled or it wasn't your "turn" to loot for your class.  It wasn't until later that EB was all about AP/GP/Medals.  

[Mirei-KT]

7 hours ago, Aly-DN said:

Gearing has always been RNG based and there is no need to gear super quick. If you make the gear tradeable, we will be right back to where we were before with people that look super geared on paper but suck eggs because they bought all their gear.. or got it in events. If someone is wearing legendary instance gear now, you can reasonably assume that they know what they are doing. Untradeable gear stops most ninja looting, as well.

Gear being untradeable is fine. It being somewhat of a grind is fine too. But to me, gearing up being 100% RNG is not. We are in a new patch, but most of us are running old content (which we already farmed into oblivion during 5.x) because actual new content such as PF and (in 6.5) Senekta is locked behind an RNG wall. People who know their class, can do BoS/FM blindfolded and are ready to move on in every other way can't - simply because they weren't lucky. That just doesn't seem right.

3.0 had the Kahrun Eternal Set (tokens) as an alternative to having to sit in EF/AM for months. In 3.5 we got TS, which also was RNG but was still do-able because there were multiple bosses (=multiple chances) and you got 1 entry per day. 4.x had ancient coins. In other words, there actually were (alternative) means to progress. But right now there are none. Crafting isn't a viable option due to the current proc rates/material costs. You do your 8 runs in FM/BoS, pray to Aion you get through the double-layered RNG on the 2-3 drops that will be usable for you, and then afk until next week. Even adding something like a guaranteed 1 token drop to the BoS/FM final boss and creating an NPC where people can exchange these for Voidsoul at a certain rate would do. That way you'd have at least one guaranteed item and some progress after 7~8 runs.

4 hours ago, Shirayuki-DN said:

Wait, your telling me there are players who finish Nergal in under 2 minutes (I assume they have compensation gear) and your telling me these guys can't do/move on to PF/IDD with said compensation gear that can finish Nergal in under 2 minutes when there is already a video out there where some guys from ek server (probably in ancients and a couple legendaries) finished PF?

They can, but the people they take along cannot. I should have re-worded that.

 

[Aly-DN]

You really seem like you are searching for excuses for why you can't do something and poo-pooing any avenue other than sitting and waiting on drops. You don't want to craft because it's too hard. You have invented something called "double layer RNG" which is no different than any other RNG we had. And somehow you believe that skilled players are being kept from IDD and PF because they aren't rocking 100% legendary +15 gear. I can assure you that that is not the case. 

You forget that Kahrun and Ancient Coin gear was not all that wonderful. That you could run TS over and over and still not get all your gear if RNGesus was not your friend. And that enchanting during the 3.x was every bit as awful as enchanting is now.

It's easy to look back on old patches when we are barely into 3 weeks of this one and say things were so much better way back when, but things really weren't.

[Mirei-KT]

No one said anything about needing 100% legendary +15 gear, neither did I write "things were so much better back then". What I wrote is that previous versions of Aion offered players alternative (and by extension guaranteed) means to progress as opposed to being at the full mercy of RNG. Less twisting of words, more actual reading.

The bare minimum for PF seems to be about half legendary gear +5 from what I hear and see. Even that can be an endless venue in a 100% rng based progression system. Unless you are now going to tell me you can finish it within a decent amount of time with a full ancient party.

But those are just additives. If giving an opinion and providing a suggestion for improvement equals "searching for excuses" to you we have nothing left to discuss.

[Kinetika-KT]

So the "new" patch is just taking away (among tons of other things) our hard ground purified sets and sending us back in the same old instances without those sets, only this time making it even harder to get a decent set again.

Why not enable PVE purification. If we can buy PVE stones with crystals, why can't we purify PVE gear with crystals? (We can't, right? Not 100% sure - I'm more concerned about PVP gear)