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CaIcifer-KT

How are sorcerers in pvp NOW?

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Sorc like I had said previously is good against glads chanter and not fully geared templars or templars who don't know how to pvp. The reason sorcs do not often "2shot" the target is they have the such long casting times and can't reliably get these skill off on an equal skill player. But even with 3k pvp def and 15.4 mdef 15.7 with shield base on my templar if I have cds and get locked up I will die in a few seconds of being kited by a sorc, glad is the same way and chanter the same. Will it happen every time no. just like with sin/ranger beat sorc every time no there is sometime the opposite will come out on top. But in general I believe this to be true. My sorc like I said has bursting accessories all of them and DT gear rest and I sit at 22.1k atk before buffs that is enough to hit geared players hard too. Obviously I will hit the plates the hardest because they have the least amount of magic defense. If add strike/area strike + glacial shard crit I can very much hit an equally geared player for over half HP in 1 hit and from that point I think I won it but again RNG. Vandal can no longer crit on fist and I believe its also the same for monster so vandal burst back then sure they could but its not as true now they have to work a bit similar to other classes.

Sorcs skill hit hard and Arhangelos, you play sorc, I know you know that they hit like a truck even against a geared target. The issue is getting the skills off. It comes down to having an ulti transform and knowledge on rotation. I don't think of myself more than a person who is just starting my sorc journey. I am no guru of sorc gameplay for the longest time if you asked me about sorc I said they are rubbish jokingly because I had such a huge love for SM that I played back in 2.5 for the longest time. Sorc wasn't my playstyle but even now when the game is much different I am learning sorc and I feel I am pretty middle of the road on it now, not good not bad. I still have gotten lucky and killed good players I can't say its not my gear but I know these other players also have gear so am I to think they are just bad players or have 0 brain. I think Sorc is just the same middle road not great not bad but no where near the opinion a lot of people have on the class

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I don't wish people to think "not a lot of people play this class" is equal to class being bad. Not a lot of people play AT but I think AT is the same its pretty good not amazing. The amount of rangers has seemed to go down as well but Ranger is same thing its not bad. I believe the classes that have been strong are strong with the only big changes happening to the classes who have been on top vandal/sm/sw dropping down a slight bit with nerfs while Cleric and Templar which are hard to balance still being on the top side. The only reason they are top being the fact if they nerf what makes these 2 strong then they are pretty damn useless classes that cant kill a thing. Take for example 6.X where temp and cleric did no dps and had a pretty hard time killing anything

Edited by Iostcrazyman-KT

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Ele-DN   

TLDR gear carries players/classes. So many times its been mentioned and part of it is NCs fault.

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33 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

TLDR gear carries players/classes.

Amen. Pvp in this game is a freaking joke now. Everything is way too fast and way too hard. (That's what she said.) You die fast, and you die with hard hits. OR. You kill someone fast, and you kill them with hard hits. Fun 5-minute matches are gone.

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3 hours ago, Ele-DN said:

TLDR gear carries players/classes. So many times its been mentioned and part of it is NCs fault.

100% true.

Quote

Amen. Pvp in this game is a freaking joke now. Everything is way too fast and way too hard. (That's what she said.) You die fast, and you die with hard hits. OR. You kill someone fast, and you kill them with hard hits. Fun 5-minute matches are gone.

Maybe its partially our own fault ? No one slots defensive stats and stigmas. Has it been proven to be an innefective strategy ?

The interesting part of the 5.x era is that you ended up growing stats that independently you would not chose to do so.

IMO the matches were the most interesting in that era.

 

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1 hour ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Maybe its partially our own fault ? No one slots defensive stats and stigmas.

Mmm maybe. Back in 7.2, I had a pdef set and it was pretty dang effective. Granted, chanters get a lot of extra pdef just from being chanters (mantras, Blessing of Stone, Elemental Screen), but it was a very useful set. Now though? Pfft. Everyone's attack is way too high, plus all of these attack runestones. Everyone just hits too hard. There's no strategy anymore. Just beat the shit out of someone before they beat the shit out of you. And that's partially the issue with sorcs in pvp -- they require too much strategy/"smart" playing to keep up with someone just stacking 23k attack and 1-2-3ing them.

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Today's update on korea they improved Sorc a little bit.

Shield is now 8000 damage with 800 pvp def.  Boon of iron clad blocks both physical and magical damage with no limit anymore. And the petrifying shield works with 10m.

They also lowered the damage of cleric, although i would not call it a considerable nerf, it will be still be god.

Sin has seen a nerf in range.

Glad has his pulls incresead in range and lowered cooldown by like half, while some other skills are nerfed.

 

 

Edited by Matsukamy-KT

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7 hours ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Today's update on korea they improved Sorc a little bit.

Shield is now 8000 damage with 800 pvp def.  Boon of iron clad blocks both physical and magical damage with no limit anymore. And the petrifying shield works with 10m.

They also lowered the damage of cleric, although i would not call it a considerable nerf, it will be still be god.

Sin has seen a nerf in range.

Glad has his pulls incresead in range and lowered cooldown by like half, while some other skills are nerfed.

 

 

I can explain the rest if people wanted but this thread was more about sorc but Repulsion field now doesn't petrify the sorc and gives 100% cast speed and petrify any target inside 10m who attacks but the sorc is rooted instead of petrified during this. The shield from repulsion also blocks 90k dmg max. Iron clad yes blocks all dmg for the 6s and still inc the resistance and yes Shield is 8k 800 pvp def

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Yuweh-KT   
On 10/7/2020 at 2:19 PM, Arhangelos-KT said:

There are classes that are tankier, with better survival skills and defenses that throw equal or more dmg than sorcs. So a sorc is left being a glass class without the dps advantage.

Sorc is good as long as you are super ultra end game geared and your enemy isn't. On equal gear many classes are both more tanky and offensive than sorcs.

I agree on this one if your coming back as a sorc better get ready alot of cash to get ultimate transformation too.. having Legendary with limited casting and no-attack speed it worst.
Also sorc right now cant survive well in pvp unless you are really good at manipulating your skills. 
Enemy skills got better shields than a sorc do like example damage reductions and resistance with less cd's even you got good combo if your ping is high after u sleep u trow 1-2 skills they can insta block it with a defensive skill and your doomed. * I tried to trow silence on a vandal before my silence hit after the sleep then he shielded even he was awoken in sleep with my soulfreeze. weird soulfreeze was attached along with his shield. 

- So "No" the sorcs are pretty bad in pvp unless you are in group.

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40 minutes ago, Yuweh-KT said:

I agree on this one if your coming back as a sorc better get ready alot of cash to get ultimate transformation too.. having Legendary with limited casting and no-attack speed it worst.
Also sorc right now cant survive well in pvp unless you are really good at manipulating your skills. 
Enemy skills got better shields than a sorc do like example damage reductions and resistance with less cd's even you got good combo if your ping is high after u sleep u trow 1-2 skills they can insta block it with a defensive skill and your doomed. * I tried to trow silence on a vandal before my silence hit after the sleep then he shielded even he was awoken in sleep with my soulfreeze. weird soulfreeze was attached along with his shield. 

- So "No" the sorcs are pretty bad in pvp unless you are in group.

And many classes simply resist silence, all classes do dmg but not all classes are tanks, sorc is made of glass.

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Yuweh-KT   

They gave away too much attack speed and physical damage got equal to magic classes .. i mean 55% casting speed really doesnt that necessary to sorcs the attack speed does the trick , as a sorc with nukes with 4s-3s nuke cast got meh if they pop reduction damage ,shields ur just a meh. wasted of casting time they will pot ur damage away . felt worst really during 6.0-7.5 .  Why ?

1st they remove the stun on magma thingy
2nd the currently advance nuke stigma right now is lowered damage than 6.0 damage normal stigma.
3rd MR doesnt work that well even u got it high , i miss my tanky sorc
4th Legendary casting transformation doesnt really necessary for a sorc who know how to pop buffs well.
5th The damage different and how to trow them , we cast yet damage is low - they dont yet their damage is better.
6th Glads pull that only a dodge can avoid it , even shield dont work on that one 
7th too many new and not unnecessary items that making more harder and harder to achieve the end game without paying , " The game is dying they should make it easier and easier to play to gain more players but they are pushing away old players by trowing new stuffs that making them grind , grind and less having to enjoy the game, specially those whos paying and paying i bet they got worst experience on that but its their choice"

 

Right now here is the list u need to get to be in a normal pvp built: 
1 Armors pvp +15 
2 New pve/pvp accessories 
3 shining gemstones +5 
4 perfect sloted accessories for the gemstone u want
5  +5 runestones 
6 lvl 7 rank S minion
7 advance stigma 
8 Ultimate transformation
9 Cubic stats (Idk where to get the old stats cubics i saw a youtube video about it but it just give 1pcs and i bet it will be hard for new players)
10 Transformation collection stats 
11 Weapon pvp +15 / Lakrum godstone effect weapon 
12 Weapon skins with good skill
13 Armor skins with skill 
14 Armors/weapon retuning to it maxed or goodest stat cost alot of kinah and luna (worst in 160 era) 20 luna is still cost alot .
15 +15 daevanation skills 

there is more alot i just dont have time to put it more but trust me having that over all issues people will just quit away.

 

7.7 got it worst by having a new accessory , gear collection , minion S combination like i know its exciting but having seen how worst the event and limited the rewards are i just dont recommend people to play anymore . they give 1 good reward and put 1 key so u will just get 1 of it .. so u know they are putting chain to everyone who wanna move forward faster 

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I think all classes struggle when ungeared with how big the gear gap is between "geared" and not is. But this is normal in a lot of mmo's is less noticeable in group play with a few players of various gear levels.

The big issue is it seems from what we hear NCwest has to get most of everything approved by Korea. So we are about 6 months behind in patch but a year behind on rewards for events so we are getting copy pasted events which isn't necessarily bad but its reflective on rewards they started to add more of the promotional stuff that Korea has been getting but you have half the player base complaining you have to pay for these. They are trying to add more stuff as people get their voice heard. A lot you do have to grind for and a lot of players don't like having to grind for things.

But speaking back on sorc the new changes are nice I have seen more people running the hybrid stigma and they really have made sorc better rounded overall

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10 hours ago, Yuweh-KT said:

1 Armors pvp +15 

2 New pve/pvp accessories 
3 shining gemstones +5 
4 perfect sloted accessories for the gemstone u want
5  +5 runestones 
6 lvl 7 rank S minion
7 advance stigma 
8 Ultimate transformation
9 Cubic stats (Idk where to get the old stats cubics i saw a youtube video about it but it just give 1pcs and i bet it will be hard for new players)
10 Transformation collection stats 
11 Weapon pvp +15 / Lakrum godstone effect weapon 
12 Weapon skins with good skill
13 Armor skins with skill 
14 Armors/weapon retuning to it maxed or goodest stat cost alot of kinah and luna (worst in 160 era) 20 luna is still cost alot .
15 +15 daevanation skills

...and then a sin jumps on the sorc that has all these and the sorc dies in 1 second. Sorcs lack survivability, our defenses and HP are so low that if we get attacked we can almost never survive the burst damage of the enemy especially an anti sorc class (or another sorcerer who simply landed sleep first).

It is good to have offensive stats, but that is if you manage to land a skill before you die in a fraction of a second. Sorcerer is not an offensive class anymore because you do not throw yourself into the battle, an assassin is an offensive class, a gladiator is an offensive class, their dmg skills are also debuffs and stuns, a sorc needs to first defend himself with debuffs, make the enemy unable to react and then hope to throw the dmg skills. We are a defenseless class that needs to defend before throwing any offenses.

A defenseless class that needs to defend, a paradox.

Even a templar is an offensive class by the game play and their skills, they simply open their shields which do their job on keeping them alive passively, while they can still throw hits, stuns pulls etc. and lethal enough to kill defenseless classes.

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Quote

..and then a sin jumps on the sorc that has all these and the sorc dies in 1 second. Sorcs lack survivability, our defenses and HP are so low that if we get attacked we can almost never survive the burst damage of the enemy especially an anti sorc class (or another sorcerer who simply landed sleep first).

From the things you keep repeating and are just not true, this one is the worst. Better glad has 102k HP, naengpa sorc has 95Khp. If you count with the 4k shield it is 99k HP. I posted on the other topic the duels of dykim and naengpa, and although it is a hard fight for sorc, it was as close to 50% it could get. And a glad and even a templar dies in seconds in the same way when fighting a magic class. im not even considering the 1200 def loss glad deals with when using slaughter that has more impact than hp. There is really not much of a difference in the game the way it is now, you just throw your strongest skills and kill the guy or get killed.

Edited by Matsukamy-KT

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Then Arhangelos you should be happy repulsion field now petrifies any target that attacks inside 10m from you and you can still freely cast and get a 100% cast speed increase you also get an 8k 800 pvp def shield and iron clad increases resistances the same and block ALL damage for 6s

Edited by Iostcrazyman-KT

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5 hours ago, Iostcrazyman-KT said:

Then Arhangelos you should be happy repulsion field now petrifies any target that attacks inside 10m from you and you can still freely cast and get a 100% cast speed increase you also get an 8k 800 pvp def shield and iron clad increases resistances the same and block ALL damage for 6s

This means I am correct in the fact we lack survivability because it seems the developers are finally giving the sorcerers actual shields.

And yes this turns a lot of tables, the shield will also do paralyze in people hitting you in distance of 10m, if used correctly it can even petrify ranged classes.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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They gave survivability to all classes with mainly the only classes getting nerfs being the broken Cleric, Templar, Sins

Edited by Iostcrazyman-KT

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Yuweh-KT   

Sorcs silence / bind skill can be resisted by cleric skill / glad skill / vandal and leathers yet they made a silence that cannot be removed even u pot it.. 

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On 10/17/2020 at 9:24 PM, Matsukamy-KT said:

 you just throw your strongest skills and kill the guy or get killed.

Ahh. All of the problems with Aion pvp, rolled into one statement.

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Calcifer I remember you from a while ago. you may be a little behind but you can catch up if you really try. there is very little 1v1 pvp around in the current game. The Sorc has become a little stronger since I last saw you. Your best bet is to play with friends in a group until you get comfortable with the changes. You should have fun while playing the game if you can't then don't come back. If you can have fun. Play with groups, make improvements to your gear, and skills and learn new rotations. Most of All have fun!!!!!

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On 10/18/2020 at 5:31 AM, Arhangelos-KT said:

This means I am correct in the fact we lack survivability because it seems the developers are finally giving the sorcerers actual shields.

And yes this turns a lot of tables, the shield will also do paralyze in people hitting you in distance of 10m, if used correctly it can even petrify ranged classes.

Not necessarily. Things change over time with each new Balance Lab patch. They try to balance and tune classes and test, their tests are done with max geared/skills/collection/cubics toons. A max geared and well played sorc is fine "enough" for 6.x - 7.5 in their eyes. Keep in mind, It's only in the later half of 7.7 they feel that all the tweaks to other classes are becoming an issue for your class (mine as well to an extent, the super high average run speed being the norm is the biggest reason I hate using fear because the speed reduction was based off of run speed scroll sub 6.0 era speeds, they are fixing that now in this 7.7 patch. Classes literally ghost and rubber band all over the place). In my class's case, it wasn't a major imbalance, just super annoying and required using slow and root skills, over time they see that and are attempting to balance.

To them, with Ult Xform, Adv Stigmas, and Adv Daevians sorcs were fine but their focus was on getting players to try Vandal and made Vandal super OP and then toned them down.  The thing is that we are JUST NOW starting to get much easier access to the Adv Stigma system since we NEVER had stigma events so most were lucky to even have +9 stigmas let alone +12 to open up an extra greater slot (which at the time was bordering on OP because of the rarity). The other regions had access to those things with stigma events and special events far sooner. Keep in mind Adv Stigmas didn't get introduced until Crimson Katalam patch back on Jan 28 almost 10 months ago. We didn't start getting people with Adv Stigmas until the Stigma event in May almost 4 months later.

Your survivability issues with your class were because of a lack of Ulti Xform (most importantly), Adv Stigmas/Dae (nearly equally as important as ulti xform), almost full cubics/collections, end game gear with good retunes and ultimate mana stones, along with event related items like Lunar weapons, and finally the skill level of the sorc themselves. The last one is major because quit a few of the sorcs have the vast majority of the gear and are still subpar and is a result of their poor play proven by the success of the other small handful of sorcs that shit on nearly everyone with ease. We didn't get the Wise Dragon King Events here to get the 30K HP heal when you dropped below 40% HP, I'm just mentioning it as how good those special events are that we didn't even get.

Issues with Sorc class in NA is most def vastly NCSoft fault here with the lack of events and access to the highest end game gear/skills/xforms/collections. It was a blessing when they finally realized how ridiculous casters were getting shafted because of the nerfed transformations that didn't let us even get CLOSE to our casting speed caps which put us at a major disadvantage compared to atk speed capped classes.

To reiterate, the problem right now if you have most of the gear/+15 skills/collections/cubics, then the issue is with you as the sorc primarily and the lack of def/survivability as a secondary. 

 

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Btw, here is a recent vid with one of KR Aion's most watched sorcs Ckdrmsdl dueling a ranger (think Dykim is there as well spectating, sounds just like his ass in their discord) after the recent balance lab patch. This vid is just preliminary and informational, I'm not making any judgement yet one way or the other on how it affects your class as people are still adjusting to the changes there, but I think it is important because ranger is an insanely good counter class to casters:

 

Edited by Malachyte-KT

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