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1 hour ago, Voodoodoctor-DN said:

I feel that sorc is fine in pvp in the hands of pro players only. By nature, sorcs are like magicians as they require fast reactions to execute the lock down combos. There isn't much margin for error hence why the skill ceiling is higher.

If the scenario here is to have an ultra skilled sorc vs a not so skilled enemy, we are comparing nothing.

The only way to talk about a class is to forget about the abilities of the players, we compare classes based on their skills and their combos and sadly the sorc is simply a walking glass class minus the canon now that every class is literally canon.

you have tank cannons (AT, Glad)
you have healing canons (SW)
you have killer canons (sins, archers)
you have a glass canon (sorc)

since we are all canons, remove the canon, and leave the rest of the explanation, you have tanks, healers, killers, and glasses! We are the glass here.
 

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10 hours ago, Voodoodoctor-DN said:

I feel that sorc is fine in pvp in the hands of pro players only. By nature, sorcs are like magicians as they require fast reactions to execute the lock down combos. There isn't much margin for error hence why the skill ceiling is higher. 

Skilled sorc pvp is arguably the most enjoying class to watch as it very fast paced with high risk rewarding play, and creativity with unpredictable combos.

In group pvp, a sorcs playstyle is focused on survivability and landing sleeps on key targets rather than full dpsing so it gives the impression that sorcs are 'weak'. 

Overall, sorcs have a high skill ceiling hence most consider it underpowered. 

This is arguably  the best example of how not to balance the sorc class that  I have ever seen.

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Youmu-EK   

I just wanted to say you sorcerers: You are not the worst class. The worst class are us, the templars.

I see is very hard convincing you about that.

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wasa-EK   
Posted (edited)

fun little piece of trivia: sorc is the only class not at all represented in the top 20 of the arena of discipline rankings in any 6.x season so far

go look at mochigirl's latest '9-time discipline arena champion' video (where they have screenshots of multiple discipline seasons) and try to find any sorc in the top ranks for the 6.x seasons. it's like playing where's waldo except waldo doesn't exist :)

Edited by wasa-EK

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6 hours ago, wasa-EK said:

fun little piece of trivia: sorc is the only class not at all represented in the top 20 of the arena of discipline rankings in any 6.x season so far

go look at mochigirl's latest '9-time discipline arena champion' video (where they have screenshots of multiple discipline seasons) and try to find any sorc in the top ranks for the 6.x seasons. it's like playing where's waldo except waldo doesn't exist :)

 I looked, and theres one sorcerer called yweh. But, you know, classes that are more popular such as clerics, chanters and glads will show up more simply because there are more players of them.

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11 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

 I looked, and theres one sorcerer called yweh. But, you know, classes that are more popular such as clerics, chanters and glads will show up more simply because there are more players of them.

I check my faction class numbers around once a week or two. The number of sorcs has historically always been and continues to be (on DN) roughly equal to the number      Of glads.

There are more people playing sorcs than SMs or ATs or gunners,  or sins.

I would agree that clerics and SWs outnumber sorcs as well as chanters.

All of this to say that in terms of numbers sorcs are well represented that isn’t the reason.

 

 

 

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Just now, Rapier-DN said:

I check my faction class numbers around once a week or two. The number of sorcs has historically always been and continues to be (on DN) roughly equal to the number      Of glads.

There are more people playing sorcs than SMs or ATs or gunners,  or sins.

I would agree that clerics and SWs outnumber sorcs as well as chanters.

All of this to say that in terms of numbers sorcs are well represented that isn’t the reason.

 

 

 

If you look at the abyss rankings, you will see that clerics are first, glads are next. Sorcs are seen more often than gunners only.(on DN at least). There are even more templars. You cannot simply look at the amount of online people because many of those are just alts.

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wasa-EK   
37 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

 I looked, and theres one sorcerer called yweh. But, you know, classes that are more popular such as clerics, chanters and glads will show up more simply because there are more players of them.

Yeah and that sorc shows up at the bottom of the top 20 in a pre-6.x patch. You can tell by the character level at the top left. It's during 75 cap. 

24 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

If you look at the abyss rankings, you will see that clerics are first, glads are next. Sorcs are seen more often than gunners only.(on DN at least). There are even more templars. You cannot simply look at the amount of online people because many of those are just alts.

If we're using the abyss rankings to see how many active players there are of each class, a quick glance comparing sorcs to other classes on my faction shows that there are more sorcs on the abyss ranks than there are templars, SMs, SWs, gunners, chanters or ATs. This is on KT-Ely which is probably a better representation since KT is more populated than DN.

Anyway, this idea that sorcs don't make the cut because there are barely any sorc players in comparison to the rest of the classes is simply not true. 

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Jake-DN   

Sorcs are very powerful with one hell of a utility belt.

 

Much like Sins, you need to have a good sense of reaction, and game knowledge to effectively play.

 

Sorcs have the tools to 100-0 most classes. It's a matter of how skilled the player is (after considering gear for obvious reasons [huehue6.x]).

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18 hours ago, Jake-DN said:

Sorcs are very powerful with one hell of a utility belt.

 

Much like Sins, you need to have a good sense of reaction, and game knowledge to effectively play.

 

Sorcs have the tools to 100-0 most classes. It's a matter of how skilled the player is (after considering gear for obvious reasons [huehue6.x]).

I'd say that sorcs > sins even in this patch.

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On 7/27/2019 at 1:54 PM, Jake-DN said:

Sorcs are very powerful with one hell of a utility belt.

 

Much like Sins, you need to have a good sense of reaction, and game knowledge to effectively play.

 

Sorcs have the tools to 100-0 most classes. It's a matter of how skilled the player is (after considering gear for obvious reasons [huehue6.x]).

You're talking about the wrong patch.

HUEHUE.

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On 7/27/2019 at 0:54 PM, Jake-DN said:

Sorcs have the tools to 100-0 most classes.

Idk I am horrible at pvp and sorcs can almost never kill me. Shin on DN-E is the only one I can think of who can kill me each time if it's 1v1. Back in 5.x, sorcs could kill me a lot more easily. Sorcs are definitely harder to pvp with in 6.x.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Vantheria-DN said:

Idk I am horrible at pvp and sorcs can almost never kill me. Shin on DN-E is the only one I can think of who can kill me each time if it's 1v1. Back in 5.x, sorcs could kill me a lot more easily. Sorcs are definitely harder to pvp with in 6.x.

That's simply because of gear. I don't think that a sorc that has 5% more stats than you would "not kill you", unless you have sets prepared to counter them or them suck, even though sorcs are not exactly a hard counter to chanter. 

Edited by Matsukamy-KT

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I was a governor for a few times in my server (KT-Asmodian) with the new GP system while I tried, (I stopped, he sieges are an awful hour for my country) but that is not a representative of the class being good or not, in a siege you aim from distance the guards and you hide in the crowd.

Sorcs are weak because whatever other classes have instantly, we have it with casting and we also lack a self healing ability that many classes have. We have one less delayed blast skil now which makes sleep a little less good etc.

Every class in this game has plenty of CC far better than sleep which is probably the worst CC in game at the moment. Many classes can stun lock you easily. Plenty of classes have shield or passives that are making them resistant to slows, roots, silences and what not.

A sorcerer is just casting Archer or something, without a hide skill.

On 25/6/2019 at 10:32 PM, Youmu-EK said:

I just wanted to say you sorcerers: You are not the worst class. The worst class are us, the templars.

I see is very hard convincing you about that.

Templars are no longer weak, they can hit really hard and they are undead for quite some time while their shields are up.

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People who play sorc : hi im from Brazil and i will like to silence stun you on first skill. Its ok i know you gona do focus evasion, but im still gona silence first skill. Cause my class is garbage! 802.jpg

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48 minutes ago, MechEagIe-DN said:

People who play sorc : hi im from Brazil and i will like to silence stun you on first skill. Its ok i know you gona do focus evasion, but im still gona silence first skill. Cause my class is garbage! 802.jpg

I think he is from Greece, not Brazil.

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Jake-DN   
On 7/28/2019 at 9:51 PM, wasa-EK said:

^ This thread is about sorc in 6.x not 5.x or 4.x.

 

 

It's not about whatever patch it is, as the gameplay has remained the same.

 

If you have the game knowledge and understanding, you don't need burst as a sorc. 

 

Sorc's have the ultility belt to constantly render their opponent useless for an exaggeratedly long period of time. 

 

You just have to know how to play, but that's the problem. Skilled play has been lost on the current players of Aion. It was bad during 2.0, somewhat okay during 3.0, drop dead on 4.0 and there were no Sorcs 5.0+.

 

It's all about Reaction Time + Game Knowledge, which no Sorc currently has and hasn't had for years. It was easier in previous patches due to damage vs HP pool differences, but still the same aspect applies. It's harsh on the class though cause it's squishy so naturally reaction time is dampened due to the human reflex of fear and panic but there hasn't really been anyone close to mastering it in years. 

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1 hour ago, Jake-DN said:

 

 

It's not about whatever patch it is, as the gameplay has remained the same.

 

If you have the game knowledge and understanding, you don't need burst as a sorc. 

 

Sorc's have the ultility belt to constantly render their opponent useless for an exaggeratedly long period of time. 

 

You just have to know how to play, but that's the problem. Skilled play has been lost on the current players of Aion. It was bad during 2.0, somewhat okay during 3.0, drop dead on 4.0 and there were no Sorcs 5.0+.

 

It's all about Reaction Time + Game Knowledge, which no Sorc currently has and hasn't had for years. It was easier in previous patches due to damage vs HP pool differences, but still the same aspect applies. It's harsh on the class though cause it's squishy so naturally reaction time is dampened due to the human reflex of fear and panic but there hasn't really been anyone close to mastering it in years. 

This. But honestly there's a brain-dead strategy now. The new rotation is:

1. Soul Freeze (bind + silence)

 

A: If they use healing pot (30s cooldown):

2. CC 

3. Soul Freeze again. You don't even need to bury. (this time your enemy has a 10s cd on the healing pot)

4. Burst, they have no defensive CDs since they just got silenced/bound while they were CC'd

 

B: If they don't use healing pot:

2. Do damage, then CC 

3. Do the usual bury rotation, soul freeze

4. If they pot out of it, go to A

 

All classes got easier. 

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wasa-EK   
On 8/27/2019 at 8:50 PM, Jake-DN said:

 

 

It's not about whatever patch it is, as the gameplay has remained the same.

 

If you have the game knowledge and understanding, you don't need burst as a sorc. 

 

Sorc's have the ultility belt to constantly render their opponent useless for an exaggeratedly long period of time. 

 

You just have to know how to play, but that's the problem. Skilled play has been lost on the current players of Aion. It was bad during 2.0, somewhat okay during 3.0, drop dead on 4.0 and there were no Sorcs 5.0+.

 

It's all about Reaction Time + Game Knowledge, which no Sorc currently has and hasn't had for years. It was easier in previous patches due to damage vs HP pool differences, but still the same aspect applies. It's harsh on the class though cause it's squishy so naturally reaction time is dampened due to the human reflex of fear and panic but there hasn't really been anyone close to mastering it in years. 

Dude what? " You don't need burst as a sorc"? What does that even mean? Do you think you auto win people by spamming sleep? wtf

I won't even go into your comparison with 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 bla bla etc etc as I haven't even played this game that far back. As for skilled play being lost, that might be more attributed to how the skillcap for every class in this game in general has been lowered after 6.0 due to skill changes (many skills lost/combined so less skills to understand or manage on every class, many skills becoming usable while moving, many cds lowered on a lot of classes, gear playing more of a role than ever, some op new skill effects etc etc).

And sure you can argue that the gameplay has remained the same. This is true for every class. The basic principles of cc/stunlock after RS baiting and burying silence then bursting still holds true. But any experienced sorc who has played at endgame level post 6.x can tell you how much more of their kit they have to use to earn a win in comparison to sorc pre 6.x. 

However, it looks like 7.0+ may be better. We'll see. 

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Jake-DN   
12 hours ago, wasa-EK said:

And sure you can argue that the gameplay has remained the same. This is true for every class. The basic principles of cc/stunlock after RS baiting and burying silence then bursting still holds true. But any experienced sorc who has played at endgame level post 6.x can tell you how much more of their kit they have to use to earn a win in comparison to sorc pre 6.x. 

 

On 8/27/2019 at 11:50 PM, Jake-DN said:

It's all about Reaction Time + Game Knowledge, which no Sorc currently has and hasn't had for years. It was easier in previous patches due to damage vs HP pool differences, but still the same aspect applies.

 

Why you telling me this when I already mentioned the fact. 

Yes you obviously gotta use more of your toolbelt these days due to damage vs eHP or w/e you wanna call it. 

Point is you still HAVE that massive toolbelt to continuously counter and react and shutdown. 

 

Point is, Sorcs still have the ability to maintain control of their fights with proper reaction and game knowledge. Yes it is more difficult, but that applies to all classes. It's just Sorc is like Sin in that it is a skilled play class vs something like Ranger/SW/SM where they're more so 1-2-3-4 pewpew and even if they get locked down they can still pewpew with their autorecoverbuttons -- and skilled play has been long lost on this game since Tempering solutions came. 

 

Much like when they nerfed UD and all the glads rerolled because omg I got stunned, it's simply a matter of you have to play more skillfully or die. But that's why I rather play these classes. It's much more rewarding in that sense. 

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It's not just a matter of HP or tankyness of classes, the fact is that with 6.0 all stats have been made equal. Magic boost used to have a different algorithm from physical attack. Back in the classic days of Aion, magic classes were easy mode because they could deal massive damage without even investing much in gear and manastones. You could solo elites, dungeons, burst people that outgeared you without even breaking a sweat. Now physical/magical/attack/defense work exactly in the same way.

 

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These last rotations point out out just how condescending, and just how out of touch some  theory-crafters that don't main a sorc in the current release really are. 

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Jake-DN   
1 hour ago, Rapier-DN said:

These last rotations point out out just how condescending, and just how out of touch some  theory-crafters that don't main a sorc in the current release really are. 

 

not to say whether or not I agree with Gundam's Rotations, but the fact remains that a skilled sorc will still win in PvP, and it's relatively that simple.

 

Gear aside ofc. --- this is the biggest issue with the current game.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Jake-DN said:

 

not to say whether or not I agree with Gundam's Rotations, but the fact remains that a skilled sorc will still win in PvP, and it's relatively that simple.

 

Gear aside ofc. --- this is the biggest issue with the current game.

It is actually not that simple. 

You could also keep repeating that the earth is flat  enough times and convince yourself that it's true., which is your right. But I would also say that it wouldn't prove that it's true.

Balance  has changed that dramatically in the past 10 years- THAT is the simple truth. No one say's that's it's impossible for a sorc to win in PVP - but the skill cap compared to other classes does not make it easy , forgiving or simple, in this release especially in OW

The "game knowledge" that experienced sorcs  have leads many to conclude that  the work it takes  is often not worth the rewards in comparison to other classes for the same or better rewards (or even actual fun in PVP) and it is a indeed partially a question of the toolbox now. That's not only in this region incidentally.

 

Edited by Rapier-DN

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