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ErzaScarIet-DN

Gear gap / Skilled vs Geared

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Posted (edited)

Guys, I would like to know your opnion,

There’s one thing that doesn’t let me play Aion again, it’s the difference that a geared player has over a player with average gear,

In the past it was POSSIBLE to defeat a geared player if you had better skills, because the difference in status between the best and the average gear was very small and everyone had the same speeds,

Nowadays, these super geared players can tank in front of you and get no damage, speeds are like the same level of someone was hacking back in the old days and yet they will one shoot you...

And another point is that having the best equipment in the past was much faster, even playing casually it was possible to reach it someday, nowadays it can take months and you may never be able to get due to RNG,

I don't see the possibility of a game being competitive that way, where the gear is mandatory over the player's skills and yet taking so long or a bunch of $$$/RNG to get at that level, for me gear should give some bonus ofc, but not a insta-win, and you, what do you think?

Edited by ErzaScarIet-DN

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I was in the same problem. But there is something that I noticed. I came back in 6.0 on January 2019. I was not playing everyday, until I learned how was the deal with Lakrum map. I was doing solo, but if you get help on how thing work you can do it faster. I had an average gear, most legendary items and 3-4 item ultimate 7+. I was really behind vs most geared players.

So, when 7.0 came in, I upgraded all my legendary 15+ items to the new legendary gear items. And right now I have my all my gear ult 9+, and still behind but not that bad. And Im not a p2w player. Stigmas 7+, Daeviation skills 5+, and Legendary transformation. So, when 8.0 comes, I think I will have all my gear ult 15+ and ready to upgrade to 8.0 gears.

We will always be behind to really old players, but after each upgrade we get close. Cuz they need to upgrade to new gear too and level up to 15+.

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Posted (edited)

It is mostly a class imbalance thing in end game than gear, you can do the gear "fast" as long you you are going for it. It needs some time but it is more possible than ever.
AP is easy to get really fast
Etiums are account wh storable so you can do free entries with alts and pass the etiums to main
Enchants can be obtained by resetting the pvp instances or buy them from broker

not easy but not impossible.

also bloodmark set is pretty decent.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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18 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

It is mostly a class imbalance thing in end game than gear, you can do the gear "fast" as long you you are going for it. It needs some time but it is more possible than ever.
AP is easy to get really fast
Etiums are account wh storable so you can do free entries with alts and pass the etiums to main
Enchants can be obtained by resetting the pvp instances or buy them from broker

not easy but not impossible.

also bloodmark set is pretty decent.

I don't think that's not hard to do, the problem it's how long it takes, not everyone has time to play everyday, at least for me the problem is how inbalanced is geared vs average gear.

You either play all day long or you dont

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Rewarding skill over gear is a begone era. I just checked the population, and there's probably less than 200 players on Elyos-KT.

NCSoft is optimizing their game to pander to people who spend money at this point. Those who don't are just fodder for those who spend money to destroy. 

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45 minutes ago, ChantrOne-KT said:

Rewarding skill over gear is a begone era. I just checked the population, and there's probably less than 200 players on Elyos-KT.

200 :o man that sure is going down fast.

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Aly-DN   
11 hours ago, ChantrOne-KT said:

Rewarding skill over gear is a begone era. I just checked the population, and there's probably less than 200 players on Elyos-KT.

NCSoft is optimizing their game to pander to people who spend money at this point. Those who don't are just fodder for those who spend money to destroy. 

That's been true for a very long time. There was a point when an older player meant better gear and trumped skill, but that has quickly become a -richer- player means better gear/transform and trumps skill.

I honestly think the start of this can be traced directly back to Aion Korea going free-to-play. Remember, before that we were playing a pay-to-play game with very slight changes to make it free-to-play in NA. Now we are seeing what the Korean Devs have in mind for a truly free-to-play game. That has translated into massive pay-to-win.

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13 hours ago, ChantrOne-KT said:

Rewarding skill over gear is a begone era. I just checked the population, and there's probably less than 200 players on Elyos-KT.

NCSoft is optimizing their game to pander to people who spend money at this point. Those who don't are just fodder for those who spend money to destroy. 

Elyos-DN can't even reach 200 players at best times,

I don't know about the other players, but at least for me, what really took away all the desire to play was that instawin given to geared,

Better skilled players being just fodder to bad but geared players makes no sense to me..

 

I'm not Yukinamida btw but also a big fan lol

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16 hours ago, ErzaScarIet-DN said:

Guys, I would like to know your opnion,

There’s one thing that doesn’t let me play Aion again, it’s the difference that a geared player has over a player with average gear,

In the past it was POSSIBLE to defeat a geared player if you had better skills, because the difference in status between the best and the average gear was very small and everyone had the same speeds,

Nowadays, these super geared players can tank in front of you and get no damage, speeds are like the same level of someone was hacking back in the old days and yet they will one shoot you...

And another point is that having the best equipment in the past was much faster, even playing casually it was possible to reach it someday, nowadays it can take months and you may never be able to get due to RNG,

I don't see the possibility of a game being competitive that way, where the gear is mandatory over the player's skills and yet taking so long or a bunch of $$$/RNG to get at that level, for me gear should give some bonus ofc, but not a insta-win, and you, what do you think?

Yes, as far as how the game goes with post 6.0 algorithms, the game is just a matter of gear, if not both with end game stats. the mechanics are also quite different, because since everyone runs and attacks too fast, mechanics, and reactions are not that much important, since you cant react to everything that is happening like before, fights last a few seconds, so what matters is that you pew pew as fast as you can so you can finish the fight quick. As far as class balance, outside of few absurdly op classes like Cleric and painter, everyone is pretty much the same, as you can see from korean streams they can succeed in any match up. Group pvp is pretty balanced and fun, as long as your cleric(s) are good.

And the game is meant for you to spend money to get end gear quick, otherwise it will be a grind fest, and you will still not be on par with the really p2w crowd.

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And BTW, being geared for end game is not just a matter of having ultimate gears, as most people think, is having enchanted gear, proper tuning, decent manastones, stigmas enchanted and maxed minion. All of that matters a great deal.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, ErzaScarIet-DN said:

I don't think that's not hard to do, the problem it's how long it takes, not everyone has time to play everyday, at least for me the problem is how inbalanced is geared vs average gear.

You either play all day long or you dont

I do not remember Aion ever being fast enough to gear though. also in the past gear mattered a lot as well, people would have 2 (or 3) sets one for offense and one for perma m.res (and one for healing if the class was a healer). I remember I went into arena with my end game gear and there was a chanter with perma m.res, he literally waited for me to end my mp trying to attack him while he healed himself and he then switched to his offensive set and broke me because I was out of mana.

There were times that most people couldn't even gear up, back with medals for example, they were sparse and only from sieges, then when medals dropped from EB not everyone could do it, people could gear themselves in one week if they knew the right people, and others had to rely on second class pvp gear and that was a permanent thing, it was practically impossible for the majority of people to gear up at all.

I remember being 75 lvl in 5.8 with the Archdaeva transforms, most people couldn't go past level 72, that was also a big difference with the archdaeva enchanted skills that gave me a big advantage with the points we also had for them at every level.

~~

The difference is now the damage mechanics and the stats given by the gear are vastly different.

Previously magic boost for example had a cap at the bonus, while p.attack didn't. Now they both don't have and act practically the same. You upgrade one gear, you get a ton more offense and a ton more defense and all this makes it so much difference against someone who doesn't have that upgraded item.

~~

If you can only play 1~2 hours in the game you never managed to do anything even in the old days. This is how every mmorpg has always been. The difference is now you can have a plan, know what you have to do and aim for it and reach the end game gear goal at some point.

MMORPGs especially from NCSoft have always been grindy.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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4 minutes ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

I do not remember Aion ever being fast enough to gear though. also in the past gear mattered a lot as well, people would have 2~3 sets one for offense and one for perma m.res. I remember I went into arena with my end game gear and there was a chanter with perma m.res, he literally waited for me to end my mp trying to attack him while he healed himself and he then switched to his offensive set and broke me because I was out of mana.

There were times that most people couldn't even gear up, back with medals for example, they were sparse and only from sieges, then when medals dropped from EB for not everyone could do it, people could gear themselves in one week if they knew the right people, and others had to rely on second class pvp gear and that was a permanent thing, it was practically impossible for the majority of people to gear up at all.

I remember being 75 lvl in 5.8 with the Archdaeva transforms, most people couldn't go past level 72, that was also a big difference with the archdaeva enchanted skills as well that gave me a big advantage with the points we also had for them at every level.

~~

The difference is now the damage mechanics and the stats given by the gear are vastly different.

Previously magic boost for example had a cap at the bonus, while p.attack didn't. Now they both don't have and act practically the same. You upgrade one gear, you get a ton more offense and a ton more defense and all this makes it so much difference against someone who doesn't have that upgraded item.

~~

If you can only play 1~2 hours in the game you never managed to do anything even in the old days. This is how every mmorpg has always been. The difference is now you can have a plan, know what you have to do and aim for it and reach the end game gear goal at some point.

MMORPGs especially from NCSoft have always been grindy.

 

After 4.0 is where things started to go that way, 5.0 is where things went downhill,

Gear mattered, but not that much before 4.0, you could beat someone in Abyss gear using a Arena gear or a lower rank Abyss gear (which was pretty fast and easy to farm with few hours a day), also we didn't had to enchant pets, stigmas, skills, plumes, bracelets, belts, rings, necklance, wings, earrings, transformations, tuning gear etc..

Do you remember when enchanting your equipment to +15 would only give you a few hundred hp and a little physical defense? it was more for branging than having a advantage..

The game was more about playing it and less about farming,

MR gear was the only broken stats these days,

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47 minutes ago, ErzaScarIet-DN said:

 

After 4.0 is where things started to go that way, 5.0 is where things went downhill,

Gear mattered, but not that much before 4.0, you could beat someone in Abyss gear using a Arena gear or a lower rank Abyss gear (which was pretty fast and easy to farm with few hours a day), also we didn't had to enchant pets, stigmas, skills, plumes, bracelets, belts, rings, necklance, wings, earrings, transformations, tuning gear etc..

Do you remember when enchanting your equipment to +15 would only give you a few hundred hp and a little physical defense? it was more for branging than having a advantage..

The game was more about playing it and less about farming,

MR gear was the only broken stats these days,

Actually, it started going downhill when they invented accs tempering. Overnight, the game balance was destroyed. It was on 4.6 or 4.7 I think ? 4.5 was pretty good IMO.

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1 minute ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

Actually, it started going downhill when they invented accs tempering. Overnight, the game balance was destroyed. It was on 4.6 or 4.7 I think ? 4.5 was pretty good IMO.

I agree with you,

I said 4.0 because we had those composites manastones, they weren't that bad or a reason to complain, but ofc it was harder to get than normal manastones, it was just the beginning.

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, it should be easier/faster now than ever.  Red Katalam ultimate pvp gear you can get a complete set within a week or 2 and faster if you do the purple bloodmark camp quests with multiple alts on the same account (you get free legendary full pve gear and pvp now just being lev 80) because the Katalam Ultimate PVP Armor/Weapon/Accessories boxes are ALL account warehouse storeable so you can easily trade it to your main.  Even better if you get the Fierce pieces because they are better than crafted PVP and only 5% weaker than Ultimate T2 Dark Talon and I believe the re-tuneable stats are identical to Dark Talon. This gear will allow you to survive until you get full Dark Talon if you even will need to get it (def get the weapon, wings, and maybe accessories) because then it will be more skill based vs your opponents as you requested.

In 7.5 it will be even easier because you can just buy T2 Ultimate Dark Talon outright with Genesis Crystals so start saving them up.  Your only concern are enchantment stones which you honestly should be saving all the luna mats on your main for when you get the 75% Legendary PVP Enchantment stone bundle in Luna and do the one where each material use only costs at most 7 mats and sometimes only 4.  Each bundle can yield 1-3 legendary stones per. 

 

Manastones can be gotten by doing Abyssal Splinter and trading the shards via account warehouse to your main. You may be able to do it easier on ALL your alts by just using the Red Katalam Ultimate PVP gear.

Edited by Malachyte-KT

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11 hours ago, ErzaScarIet-DN said:

 

After 4.0 is where things started to go that way, 5.0 is where things went downhill,

Gear mattered, but not that much before 4.0, you could beat someone in Abyss gear using a Arena gear or a lower rank Abyss gear (which was pretty fast and easy to farm with few hours a day), also we didn't had to enchant pets, stigmas, skills, plumes, bracelets, belts, rings, necklance, wings, earrings, transformations, tuning gear etc..

Do you remember when enchanting your equipment to +15 would only give you a few hundred hp and a little physical defense? it was more for branging than having a advantage..

The game was more about playing it and less about farming,

MR gear was the only broken stats these days,

You can get the bloodmark set in 1 week or so if you dedicate yourself and the only thing left is to make it +15. That is practically all you need and you won't fall that back from Dark Talon.

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Hallo-DN   
Posted (edited)

Katalam gear is very easy to get since you can trade the gear between toons in account werehouse. The real big issue is  getting the enchantment stones  (AKA EXP nerf) for morphing . We had it easy before this patch  since exp wasnt nerfed and unlimited enchantment stone bundles, after 7.2 is more frustrating to enchant stuff because of that (unless you p2w).

Edited by Hallo-DN

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hallo-DN said:

Katalam gear is very easy to get since you can trade the gear between toons in account werehouse. The real big issue is  getting the enchantment stones  (AKA EXP nerf) for morphing . We had it easy before this patch  since exp wasnt nerfed and unlimited enchantment stone bundles, after 7.2 is more frustrating to enchant stuff because of that (unless you p2w).

In this case you can put the item in the account wh, an alt can get it, use enchants that he has and then put it back for the main to wear it once it is +15.

5 enchant boxes per week per char with genesis crystals + free enchants at every pvp instance with your free entries with the alts.

Imagine doing 12x afk IDs the three days that ID is open, you get the same rewards with 6 winning IDs. Yes this ends up not being a game you play, but rather afk alts to gear a main, but the main goal is to gear the main by a player that can't do much and doesn't have all the free time.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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3 hours ago, Arhangelos-KT said:

In this case you can put the item in the account wh, an alt can get it, use enchants that he has and then put it back for the main to wear it once it is +15.

Yeah i was thiniking about this too, like old Abyss gear below lv 50 and arena lv 55 that could be enchanted and traded between your own toon trought Account warehouse.

But sadly only Blood Mark boxes are tradable, once you open them, the gear inside is untradable.

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Ele-DN   

Gear problem was 6.0-6.5. Now its 15 daeva skills, +12 stigmas... Idk what era you guys are playing in.

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Ele-DN   

Also, when 7.5 comes.. those "gear" is probably easier to get with same stats. Plus, accessories change where you don't need to enchant or socket manastones. Focus on gear that gets replaced? or something that carries over? Daeva skills, stigmas and S rank minions. 

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Jake-DN   

Skill vs Gear in 4.x

 

Me in full bloodmark, out dpsing someone in full IS gear.

Me in full bloodmark, killing people in full pvp gear.

 

 

Skill vs Gear in 5.x

what is pve

lultempspvp

 

Skill vs Gear 6.x and onward

PvE is very linear, do each tier to advance to the next. This has probably been the most stable and simple PVE gearing.

Yay they removed Godstones/temp solutions! but wait theres more!

Enemy has 1 gear set above you? They will 3 shot you nearly instantly. You have 1 gear set below them? You might be able to 20 shot them. 

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38 minutes ago, Ele-DN said:

Gear problem was 6.0-6.5. Now its 15 daeva skills, +12 stigmas... Idk what era you guys are playing in.

And you think those things arent going to be replaced as well ?

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