steel rake bans [Merged]

[Peto]

7 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi everyone,
 
So we would like to share an update addressing your most critical questions. First, regarding the bans/suspensions - we unfortunately can't provide any additional details on the nature/qualifications of the recent actions outside of what has been already shared by Support.
 
That said, we have seen your inquiries regarding whether we take issue with players who repeatedly enter the same instance of Steel Rake to complete the ‘Hairpin Ahoy!’ quest. This is a part of the game’s design, and we will not consider or treat it as an exploit.
 
We hope that this alleviates any concerns going forward regarding Steel Rake and the Hairpin Ahoy! quest, and  similar quests which may appear in future patches.

Then what is my ban-reason? I was banned by SR "exploit". What is that "exploit" I did?

Now I just want they say that doing repeat-quest (by re-entering SR) is exploiting. That will make more sense and I dont need to wait for any answer.

[Wsnow]

@Kibbelz

So can you please tell me if this is how it going to be left for all the players that got banned for doing the repeat quest? 

I think this is shameful of NCsoft that they know they made mistakes and can not address it.

If NCsoft thinks this is how they run a game then they are mistaken it does not take much for someone or a company to admit they made a mistake, in fact it goes a long way in making a company better.

I cant believe that NCsoft think they can just leave it like this and i would like to know what is going to be done. Are the accounts banned for doing the repeat quests going to be looked at and if a mistake was made is it going to be address? 

Or does NCsoft think they can just leave it like this?

 

 

[Pyromage-DN]

12 hours ago, minigolfmaster-KT said:

@KibbelzWhat about all of the players who are currently farming abyss points by trading kills with the opposite faction? This was against the rules back in original 1.5 + patches. They are circumventing the abyss point system by willingly dying/getting free kills on the opposite faction to farm abyss points. Can you give us some insight on weather or not we can get banned/punished for this? or should all players start to trade AP as a norm?

+1
Can we get an answer on this? Please??

What about all the players that abused the print screen glitch, free farming AP without any penalty? Nothing?

[Asy]

Do they even Care... At this point most of us still didnt get any reply at all about their ban, apparently some are getting apologies , how lucky they are ! Still waiting for mine ..

[Bip]

10 minutes ago, Asy said:

Do they even Care... At this point most of us still didnt get any reply at all about their ban, apparently some are getting apologies , how lucky they are ! Still waiting for mine ..

My best advice would be to everyone that got wrongfully banned is to send ONE last ticket explaining the situation and linking @Kibbelzanswer on the matter.

https://forums.aiononline.com/topic/9333-steel-rake-bans/?do=findComment&comment=97552

Copy/paste the link above and ask for the flag to be removed and Siel's Aura to be added back. Any other compensation, if there will be any, will be given at a later date probably so don't waste your time with that. I'd be more worried about the ban flag right now.

I wish you all the best of luck.

[Makisekurisu]

14 hours ago, Wsnow said:

@Kibbelz

So can you please tell me if this is how it going to be left for all the players that got banned for doing the repeat quest? 

I think this is shameful of NCsoft that they know they made mistakes and can not address it.

If NCsoft thinks this is how they run a game then they are mistaken it does not take much for someone or a company to admit they made a mistake, in fact it goes a long way in making a company better.

I cant believe that NCsoft think they can just leave it like this and i would like to know what is going to be done. Are the accounts banned for doing the repeat quests going to be looked at and if a mistake was made is it going to be address? 

Or does NCsoft think they can just leave it like this?

 

 

Not just Nc can, they are ignoring yall and thats it, at this point, just move on.

[Kitsuney]

Replied in wrong thread. 

[Wsnow]

11 hours ago, Makisekurisu said:

Not just Nc can, they are ignoring yall and thats it, at this point, just move on.

Move on that's what you would do players have marks on there accounts for doing nothing wrong that's a joke and NC needs to sort that.  

Not sure if you noted the drop in players on Aion Classic but this is the sort of thing why players leave NC has to understand that and address it.  Or Aion Classic NA is doomed before it even starts.

[MXJ]

8 hours ago, Wsnow said:

 players have marks on there accounts for doing nothing wrong that's a joke and NC needs to sort that.  

Humanity has been crying innocent when they know they're guilty since well... the dawn of humanity. Heard of criminal defense lawyers? Their entire job is either to convince people you're innocent, or if you've been proven guilty to get you off with a lighter sentence.

I'm not saying that NCSoft is incapable of making a mistake, and I'm not even saying that they didn't mistakenly ban some people here.

There are people who have been unbanned, there are people who had said flag removed from their account and given back the missing Siel's Aura time (which I'll admit isn't enough for being wrongfully banned.) 

NCSoft might not publicly admit they made a mistake, but they've been rectifying the issue for a number of wrongfully banned players. You're choosing to believe that every person who says they're innocent is actually innocent, which is incredibly naive.

If a random stranger said they were innocent after they murdered someone and the investigators had concrete proof that they could not share with the general public would you tell everyone they're innocent just because you didn't see them commit murder? Doubtful.

This isn't a court. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply here. If NCSoft even suspects you're doing something wrong they can ban you at their own discretion while they investigate it. It's in the terms of service that no one reads. 

Lastly, it's also bizarre that the first reaction of the "innocents" is "UNBAN ME UNBAN ME UNBAN ME" but won't even try to explain why they're innocent. They just are. They don't try to recall when they ran the dungeon, or how many times they did X or Y quest, how long they spent in the dungeon. It's just "I DID MULTIPLE REPEATS AND GOT BANNED."

When I was wrongfully banned in the past by a different company my initially gut reaction was "what the nyerk" but then it very quickly moved to "What exactly did I do so that I can prove I was innocent, and how can I prevent this from happening ever again."

It was recalling dates, times, how long I was doing the thing, what did I do differently on run Z that may have gotten me flagged, detailing the exact sequence of events from my perspective that led to me getting banned down to how many times I died.

I put more time and effort into getting unbanned than I did actually playing the game. As for preventative measures, I began recording 100% of my gameplay. People who are actually innocent will do far more to attempt to prove their innocence than just make the claim on a message board, or send 2 sentences in a ticket to support.

Let's be honest, on the internet no one will ever admit they did something wrong because they have the internet's anonymity. They will claim they're innocent for years knowing all along it's a lie, so even if NCSoft reviewed every single ban today and found that.. half of them were actually innocent the other half would still claim innocence as well. 

[Wsnow]

4 minutes ago, MXJ said:

Humanity has been crying innocent when they know they're guilty since well... the dawn of humanity. Heard of criminal defense lawyers? Their entire job is either to convince people you're innocent, or if you've been proven guilty to get you off with a lighter sentence.

I'm not saying that NCSoft is incapable of making a mistake, and I'm not even saying that they didn't mistakenly ban some people here.

There are people who have been unbanned, there are people who had said flag removed from their account and given back the missing Siel's Aura time (which I'll admit isn't enough for being wrongfully banned.) 

NCSoft might not publicly admit they made a mistake, but they've been rectifying the issue for a number of wrongfully banned players. You're choosing to believe that every person who says they're innocent is actually innocent, which is incredibly naive.

If a random stranger said they were innocent after they murdered someone and the investigators had concrete proof that they could not share with the general public would you tell everyone they're innocent just because you didn't see them commit murder? Doubtful.

This isn't a court. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply here. If NCSoft even suspects you're doing something wrong they can ban you at their own discretion while they investigate it. It's in the terms of service that no one reads. 

Lastly, it's also bizarre that the first reaction of the "innocents" is "UNBAN ME UNBAN ME UNBAN ME" but won't even try to explain why they're innocent. They just are. They don't try to recall when they ran the dungeon, or how many times they did X or Y quest, how long they spent in the dungeon. It's just "I DID MULTIPLE REPEATS AND GOT BANNED."

When I was wrongfully banned in the past by a different company my initially gut reaction was "what the nyerk" but then it very quickly moved to "What exactly did I do so that I can prove I was innocent, and how can I prevent this from happening ever again."

It was recalling dates, times, how long I was doing the thing, what did I do differently on run Z that may have gotten me flagged, detailing the exact sequence of events from my perspective that led to me getting banned down to how many times I died.

I put more time and effort into getting unbanned than I did actually playing the game. As for preventative measures, I began recording 100% of my gameplay. People who are actually innocent will do far more to attempt to prove their innocence than just make the claim on a message board, or send 2 sentences in a ticket to support.

Let's be honest, on the internet no one will ever admit they did something wrong because they have the internet's anonymity. They will claim they're innocent for years knowing all along it's a lie, so even if NCSoft reviewed every single ban today and found that.. half of them were actually innocent the other half would still claim innocence as well. 

i an not saying everyone that got banned it was done wrongly, i stating that NCsoft should come out and state they are looking at it by a case by case bases, the way in looks in this topic is no one has had the mark removed from there account. 

All NC has to state is we are looking at each account who state they were only doing the quests and if we got it wrong the mark will be removed from the account and time given back. the way NC has left this is far short from right, they should admit they got some of it wrong and are looking into it. 

Players have had to suffer with what goes along with a ban and that's not right when NCsoft made a mistake. 

I am not  naive never had been never will be, if I made a mistake I admit it so should NCsoft not keep it be hide closed doors. 

If I done half a job and when asked by my boss would not admit it, I would get sacked that's what NC are trying to get away with.

[TQQKay-KT]

@Kibbelz here is the easy fix to stop all these repeat bans.  Make the quest a daily quest you can get from sr.   That way it can't be spammed.   There you go saved ncsoft probably 5000 hours in labor. 

[Wsnow]

2 minutes ago, TQQKay-KT said:

@Kibbelz here is the easy fix to stop all these repeat bans.  Make the quest a daily quest you can get from sr.   That way it can't be spammed.   There you go saved ncsoft probably 5000 hours in labor. 

why should they make it daily quest? @Kibbelz has already stated that is how its meant to be run.

[MXJ]

47 minutes ago, Wsnow said:

All NC has to state is we are looking at each account who state they were only doing the quests and if we got it wrong the mark will be removed from the account and time given back. the way NC has left this is far short from right, they should admit they got some of it wrong and are looking into it. 

On 8/5/2021 at 12:49 PM, Kibbelz said:

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

Quoting what Kibbelz said 8 days ago for you. What part of this message allows any confusion and leads you to believe that each ban is not manually completed, or that they are not reviewing their decisions?

Also, I don't know about you, but when someone thinks I might have done something wrong, but neither of us know for sure, I'm not going to say "Yeah sorry I got it wrong let me fix it." 

I'm going to go look at what I've done, check to see if there are any mistakes, and tell the person "I'm not sure if it's wrong, but I'll check, and if it is wrong I'll make sure it's fixed."

If I admit that I was wrong before I know for sure it means that no matter what I do from that point forward, even if my initial decision was correct, I still have to offer some kind of reparation for the perceived damages. No one is going to believe you when you say "I was wrong about being wrong." 

[Neferupito]

Ok, so this is getting stupid.

Here is the ban mail i received 2 weeks ago

Here is my char,  that would be way better geared if I had done the exploit :

And after it was confirmed the ban was an error I sent a mail to the support.

Quote

We do get your point here but we will not be able to provide any compensation regarding this matter. Please note that if compensations are deemed appropriate, it will also be posted on our official forums. I hope this clarifies your inquiry.

So @Kibbelz, can you please enlighten us? We did noothing wrong, got banned. The thing we were banned for 2 weeks ago is deemed non-bannable now, and we can't even get the removal of the ban flag from our account.

Please work with the staff to get this sorted, I play by the rules, NCSoft should too

[Wsnow]

38 minutes ago, MXJ said:

Quoting what Kibbelz said 8 days ago for you. What part of this message allows any confusion and leads you to believe that each ban is not manually completed, or that they are not reviewing their decisions?

Also, I don't know about you, but when someone thinks I might have done something wrong, but neither of us know for sure, I'm not going to say "Yeah sorry I got it wrong let me fix it." 

I'm going to go look at what I've done, check to see if there are any mistakes, and tell the person "I'm not sure if it's wrong, but I'll check, and if it is wrong I'll make sure it's fixed."

If I admit that I was wrong before I know for sure it means that no matter what I do from that point forward, even if my initial decision was correct, I still have to offer some kind of reparation for the perceived damages. No one is going to believe you when you say "I was wrong about being wrong." 

fine with some of what you said .

But for over a week we were not even told if repeat quests could be done this way or not. (Should they not know the game they are running?)

There are still players I believe that have not even had a reply to there tickets.

There is way more mistaken bans then I think you are trying to say there was.

Players are left even if they did not get banned looking what NC has done and thinking this is not for me they cant even admit there mistake which has caused a great deal of damage to the game and servers. 

Should a company any company admit it made a mistake when it plain as day they did, yes they should as it goes well for any company and the people that use there service. 

I agree until a company knows for sure they have to do something, left could lead to more issues, but if they had done checks days before as they should have there would 100% not have been all the issues there was, and that was not hard to do was it read back your see my post way back when I said why not ask NCsoft KR if the quests are meant to be done this way, should the team dealing with this not have done this from day one when they saw there was a huge issue? 

more companies think of there name and what it stands for it seems NC West does not do this, it wants to go be hide closed doors knowing all the players knew about this and was worried yet they give BS replies. 

 

 

[MXJ]

4 minutes ago, Neferupito said:

Ok, so this is getting stupid.

Here is the ban mail i received 2 weeks ago

Here is my char,  that would be way better geared if I had done the exploit :

And after it was confirmed the ban was an error I sent a mail to the support.

So @Kibbelz, can you please enlighten us? We did noothing wrong, got banned. The thing we were banned for 2 weeks ago is deemed non-bannable now, and we can't even get the removal of the ban flag from our account.

Please work with the staff to get this sorted, I play by the rules, NCSoft should too

No where in your message do I see any acknowledgement from NCSoft that your ban was erroneous. Plus, there is no specification that the mention of compensation is due to being wrongfully banned.

There was also an issue where bans weren't ending when they were supposed to, and because of how you've clipped out the bulk of the content here there is no way for anyone to know that you didn't just email support when your ban didn't end when it was supposed to, and then demand compensation. 

[Wsnow]

12 minutes ago, MXJ said:

No where in your message do I see any acknowledgement from NCSoft that your ban was erroneous. Plus, there is no specification that the mention of compensation is due to being wrongfully banned.

There was also an issue where bans weren't ending when they were supposed to, and because of how you've clipped out the bulk of the content here there is no way for anyone to know that you didn't just email support when your ban didn't end when it was supposed to, and then demand compensation. 

what is your issue here? players were banned wrongly full stop its just sad NC wont admit it, why because if they did they would have to pay out there profits.

And this is looking worse and worse on NC due to this, the numbers of players have gone down a great deal since this started. and many players would not even run SR why ?

If NC has made this mistake and wont admit it what happens the next time?

 

 

 

[MXJ]

25 minutes ago, Wsnow said:

1. For over a week we were not even told if repeat quests could be done this way or not. (Should they not know the game they are running?)

2. There are still players I believe that have not even had a reply to there tickets.

I'm only going to respond to these two points, because it's ultimately what it all boils down to.

1. A great example I read recently that is relevant to this point was about a flickering lightbulb in an office building. Obviously the flickering lightbulb needs to be changed, but no one knows who is supposed to change it, or if they're even supposed to change it before it burns out completely. 

So your low level employees tell their supervisors, who tell the managers, who tell the directors, but because they're all on different schedules, they're in the office at different times, they had more important things to attend to than to read an email about a flickering lightbulb, etc.

By the time the message gets to who it needs to a week has passed, and the lightbulb is completely burnt out. The next morning the lightbulb has been replaced and it's business as  usual.

The point is that you see it as just "Kibbelz, a figure head for the community, should know every detail of the game and what is or isn't considered exploiting.

But it's not Kibbelz who makes those decisions, it's not even support who makes those decisions. So Kibbelz contacts support, who contact their supervisors, who contact their managers, who contact the project lead, who contacts NCKorea. 

By the time all that happens days have passed before you get a simple response to "Is this considered an exploit." 

2. This also plays into #1, but people are submitting tickets upon tickets upon tickets, responding to the automated message angry that they didn't instantly get a response from a human on the other side of the screen.

When your customer service is through a phone, if the customer hangs up their request is just gone. If they call back in they have to start all over again, which is still a waste of company time, but not nearly as much as having a dozen different tickets from the same person for the same issue, because on the phone only one person is working on the issue at a time.

Even in this thread you see people talking about how they sent this ticket to support, and that ticket to support, and "you guys should submit one more final ticket to support explaining the situation in detail."

Like no. Don't send them a single nyerk thing until they've responded to you. Everything you mentioned boils down to "people clogged the queue with god knows how many tickets." 

Since Classic launched I've sent 3 tickets, all for purchase issues. Each ticket was fully resolved  within less than an hour of me submitting it. Now that the ban wave happened I send a ticket and I don't get a response for 3 days for the exact same problem I had before. 

The response time has literally increased by almost 100x. That tells you all you should need to know. You can even see in the screenshots people are posting that 3-4 different support agents are responding to their requests.

Fun fact: In customer service more people working on something is actually really bad, because it means they now have to all coordinate their responses with each other, which means a 30 second response to an email turns into a multi-hour long ordeal because you need to make sure you're all sending the same information.

[MXJ]

15 minutes ago, Wsnow said:

what is your issue here? players were banned wrongly full stop its just sad NC wont admit it, why because if they did they would have to pay out there profits.

And this is looking worse and worse on NC due to this, the numbers of players have gone down a great deal since this started. and many players would not even run SR why ?

If NC has made this mistake and wont admit it what happens the next time?

Again you assume that someone is innocent because they said so, with zero evidence (not even the intentionally poorly cropped screenshots.) 

Let me make it really simple this time for you: People lie. All the time. 

[Wsnow]

4 minutes ago, MXJ said:

I'm only going to respond to these two points, because it's ultimately what it all boils down to.

1. A great example I read recently that is relevant to this point was about a flickering lightbulb in an office building. Obviously the flickering lightbulb needs to be changed, but no one knows who is supposed to change it, or if they're even supposed to change it before it burns out completely. 

So your low level employees tell their supervisors, who tell the managers, who tell the directors, but because they're all on different schedules, they're in the office at different times, they had more important things to attend to than to read an email about a flickering lightbulb, etc.

By the time the message gets to who it needs to a week has passed, and the lightbulb is completely burnt out. The next morning the lightbulb has been replaced and it's business as  usual.

The point is that you see it as just "Kibbelz, a figure head for the community, should know every detail of the game and what is or isn't considered exploiting.

But it's not Kibbelz who makes those decisions, it's not even support who makes those decisions. So Kibbelz contacts support, who contact their supervisors, who contact their managers, who contact the project lead, who contacts NCKorea. 

By the time all that happens days have passed before you get a simple response to "Is this considered an exploit." 

2. This also plays into #1, but people are submitting tickets upon tickets upon tickets, responding to the automated message angry that they didn't instantly get a response from a human on the other side of the screen.

When your customer service is through a phone, if the customer hangs up their request is just gone. If they call back in they have to start all over again, which is still a waste of company time, but not nearly as much as having a dozen different tickets from the same person for the same issue.

Even in this thread you see people talking about how they sent this ticket to support, and that ticket to support, and "you guys should submit one more final ticket to support explaining the situation in detail."

Like no. Don't send them a single nyerk thing until they've responded to you. Everything you mentioned boils down to "people clogged the queue with god knows how many tickets." 

Since Classic launched I've sent 3 tickets, all for purchase issues. Each ticket was fully resolved  within less than an hour of me submitting it. Now that the ban wave happened I send a ticket and I don't get a response for 3 days for the exact same problem I had before. 

The response time has literally increased by almost 100x. That tells you all you should need to know.

I have never said this was all down to @Kibbelz if fact I thanked him for the help he has given, I blamed the team who was dealing with this.

they cant even state they did not know about the enter quest for SR as NCsoft KR had fixed it, and way before the bans happened in fact weeks before hand there were posts about players using it, so they knew way before the ban waves that it was being used. 

Stop sacking up to NC when this time they don't deserve it and still don't because yes we now know we cant get banned for doing the repeat quests but it was to late for the players that was doing the repeat quests and were banned already.

NCsoft even had the balls to take money out of players accounts while they were banned. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, MXJ said:

Again you assume that someone is innocent because they said so, with zero evidence (not even the intentionally poorly cropped screenshots.) 

Let me make it really simple this time for you: People lie. All the time. 

I know players lie I know people lie but the fact is NC made a mistake a big one and wont admit to it. 

[MXJ]

15 minutes ago, Wsnow said:

I have never said this was all down to @Kibbelz if fact I thanked him for the help he has given, I blamed the team who was dealing with this.

they cant even state they did not know about the enter quest for SR as NCsoft KR had fixed it, and way before the bans happened in fact weeks before hand there were posts about players using it, so they knew way before the ban waves that it was being used. 

Stop sacking up to NC when this time they don't deserve it and still don't because yes we now know we cant get banned for doing the repeat quests but it was to late for the players that was doing the repeat quests and were banned already.

NCsoft even had the balls to take money out of players accounts while they were banned. 

 

 

 

I know players lie I know people lie but the fact is NC made a mistake a big one and wont admit to it. 

And your conclusion of them making that mistake is based solely on the assumption that people, who lie, are telling the truth when they tell you they got banned for doing multiple turn-ins per run. 

Think about how absolutely ridiculous your message is.

"We know we can't be banned for doing X thing, but last week we got banned for doing X thing."

"I know I can't get arrested for eating candy on my front porch, but last week I got arrested for eating candy on my front porch." 

Either A. You can get arrested for eating candy on your front porch (which we know isn't true, because it's been confirmed)

Or B. You were "arrested" for another reason. 

[Xion-KT]

2 hours ago, MXJ said:

Humanity has been crying innocent when they know they're guilty since well... the dawn of humanity. Heard of criminal defense lawyers? Their entire job is either to convince people you're innocent, or if you've been proven guilty to get you off with a lighter sentence.

I'm not saying that NCSoft is incapable of making a mistake, and I'm not even saying that they didn't mistakenly ban some people here.

There are people who have been unbanned, there are people who had said flag removed from their account and given back the missing Siel's Aura time (which I'll admit isn't enough for being wrongfully banned.) 

NCSoft might not publicly admit they made a mistake, but they've been rectifying the issue for a number of wrongfully banned players. You're choosing to believe that every person who says they're innocent is actually innocent, which is incredibly naive.

If a random stranger said they were innocent after they murdered someone and the investigators had concrete proof that they could not share with the general public would you tell everyone they're innocent just because you didn't see them commit murder? Doubtful.

This isn't a court. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply here. If NCSoft even suspects you're doing something wrong they can ban you at their own discretion while they investigate it. It's in the terms of service that no one reads. 

Lastly, it's also bizarre that the first reaction of the "innocents" is "UNBAN ME UNBAN ME UNBAN ME" but won't even try to explain why they're innocent. They just are. They don't try to recall when they ran the dungeon, or how many times they did X or Y quest, how long they spent in the dungeon. It's just "I DID MULTIPLE REPEATS AND GOT BANNED."

When I was wrongfully banned in the past by a different company my initially gut reaction was "what the nyerk" but then it very quickly moved to "What exactly did I do so that I can prove I was innocent, and how can I prevent this from happening ever again."

It was recalling dates, times, how long I was doing the thing, what did I do differently on run Z that may have gotten me flagged, detailing the exact sequence of events from my perspective that led to me getting banned down to how many times I died.

I put more time and effort into getting unbanned than I did actually playing the game. As for preventative measures, I began recording 100% of my gameplay. People who are actually innocent will do far more to attempt to prove their innocence than just make the claim on a message board, or send 2 sentences in a ticket to support.

Let's be honest, on the internet no one will ever admit they did something wrong because they have the internet's anonymity. They will claim they're innocent for years knowing all along it's a lie, so even if NCSoft reviewed every single ban today and found that.. half of them were actually innocent the other half would still claim innocence as well. 

What the? What have you been reading? Cause the thing I saw play out these last few weeks was people getting banned not knowing why they were even banned and then the people working together to identify the most likely reason was Steel Rake. NCSoft wouldn't even admit this much to them early on and were attempting to shut off all subsequent communication with those people. It's only at that point after more noise was made that NCSoft finally confirmed that yes it was related to Steel Rake. I don't know how you could attribute all that to people not even trying to figure out why they were banned and fighting for it when that's what this whole thread is about.

Also like I said before, it's not like this should be a hard thing for NCSoft either. If people did really take advantage of the exploit then but are now getting unbanned then they should be reverting the gains that person got via the exploit also but we haven't heard anything about that too. If those people getting unbanned are however not actually the ones that did exploit then where's the compensation for those people? Everything that's happened so far instead has flags saying NCSoft messed up and they aren't willing to take responsibility.

I don't know how you can make all these arguments and not see how badly this was handled by NCSoft. From the start if people contacted them about being banned, the proper response should have been that they were banned for being suspected of using an exploit related to Steel Rake (instead of trying to make it seem like it's some top secret even though the exploit had already been patched at that point and was brought up here before) and then communicating with the players how they were able to validate their results that the player had used the exploit (in this case that could have been saying the user gained x amount of kinah using the exploit that shouldn't have been possible by simply re-entering Steel Rake x amount of times under a certain amount of time or something). But sure let's blame the players for not knowing what they did wrong in the first place and were being cut off from any additional contact if it weren't for threads like these.

[MXJ]

12 minutes ago, Xion-KT said:

What the? What have you been reading? Cause the thing I saw play out these last few weeks was people getting banned not knowing why they were even banned and then the people working together to identify the most likely reason was Steel Rake. NCSoft wouldn't even admit this much to them early on and were attempting to shut off all subsequent communication with those people. It's only at that point after more noise was made that NCSoft finally confirmed that yes it was related to Steel Rake. I don't know how you could attribute all that to people not even trying to figure out why they were banned and fighting for it when that's what this whole thread is about.

Also like I said before, it's not like this should be a hard thing for NCSoft either. If people did really take advantage of the exploit then they should be reverting the gains that person got via the exploit also but we haven't heard anything about that too. Everything that's happened so far instead has flags saying NCSoft messed up and they aren't willing to take responsibility.

I don't know how you can make all these arguments and not see how badly this was handled by NCSoft. From the start if people contacted them about being banned, the proper response should have been that they were banned for being suspected of using an exploit related to Steel Rake (instead of trying to make it seem like it's some top secret even though the exploit had already been patched at that point and was brought up here before) and then communicating with the players how they were able to validate their results that the player had used the exploit (in this case that could have been saying the user gained x amount of kinah using the exploit that shouldn't have been possible by simply re-entering Steel Rake x amount of times under a certain amount of time or something). But sure let's blame the players for not knowing what they did wrong in the first place and were being cut off from any additional contact if it weren't for threads like these.

NCSoft confirmed that the entry quest exploit was undetectable without player reports, so what you're saying is akin to saying:

A bank has a hidden back door that is supposed to be closed, but is jammed open and anyone who steals money from this back door gets away unless someone sees and reports them to the police.

NCSoft The bank should tell everyone about the back door when they're still in the process of making sure that it's closed, just so that the people being arrested for stealing from this back door have some peace of mind about why they're actually being arrested.

[Xion-KT]

19 minutes ago, MXJ said:

NCSoft confirmed that the entry quest exploit was undetectable without player reports, so what you're saying is akin to saying:

A bank has a hidden back door that is supposed to be closed, but is jammed open and anyone who steals money from this back door gets away unless someone sees and reports them to the police.

NCSoft should tell everyone about the back door when they're still in the process of making sure that it's closed, just so that the people being arrested for stealing from this back door have some peace of mind about why they're actually being arrested.

Where? Where did they say that? The only thing I read was they claimed the bans were justified because users were making the reports. No guarantee if that part was even true or if those reports were accurate (as they were sending that to everyone as a pre-written script).

Also you're making false analogies. One, the exploit was even directly responded and was left on the forums so if they really wanted to hide it, maybe leaving it on here isn't the way to go https://forums.aiononline.com/topic/9211-kinah-exploit-2-and-noone-cares/?tab=comments#comment-95944

Second, what gain is there from hiding the general location or time related to the ban? Prevent someone from exploiting a bug that was then already patched on their now BANNED account?

Finally, if it was still ongoing, then maybe they shouldn't have closed off communications with players. Go look around and you'll see early on in this that a lot of people were reporting that support stated their ban was final and was no longer willing to look into it.

[MXJ]

1 minute ago, Wsnow said:

no just mo there is a reasonable way for the ncsoft team who was dealing with this to know if someone was using the damm SR  exploit or just doing what has always be done in Aion since 2009 and that was the repeat quests. 

and that is for the ncsoft team dealing with it to look at the money players got from the SR runs and if they were in a damm group. 

NCsoft instead of looking at this the logical way above banned everyone that was going in and out of SR that included the players who was doing no fu**** wrong just doing the repeat quest.

and now instead of saying sorry to them said players who done nothing wrong but do the repeat quests, they hide be-hide  a wall and say shit and the players who was banned wrongly have a mark agaist there account a lot of them players have played aion since the start and had there accounts since then just adding a classic account to there main accounts. 

Now get that in your head.

 

And for the 3000th time you've demonstrated you're incapable of comprehending that people lie. No one, not a single person, has come forward with any proof whatsoever that they were banned for turning in multiple repeats per run.

Even the people claiming they were wrongfully banned, and later unbanned, have failed to provide screenshots of their supposed conversations with supports that led to them being unbanned. 

If even the people who are claiming to have concrete proof that NCSoft made a mistake are refusing to present it, what makes you think it actually exists? Blind faith in humanity? And you say you're not naive. 

Just now, Xion-KT said:

Where? Where did they say that? The only thing I read was they claimed the bans were justified because users were making the reports. No guarantee if that part was even true or if those reports were accurate.

Also you're making false analogies. One, the exploit was even directly responded and was left on the forums so if they really wanted to hide it, maybe leaving it on here isn't the way to go https://forums.aiononline.com/topic/9211-kinah-exploit-2-and-noone-cares/?tab=comments#comment-95944

Second, what gain is there from hiding the general location or time related to the ban? Prevent someone from exploiting a bug that was then already patched on their now BANNED account?

Finally, if it was still ongoing, then maybe they shouldn't have closed off communications with players. Go look around and you'll see early on in this that a lot of people were reporting that support stated their ban was final and was no longer willing to look into it.

Oh you mean they let a thread stay up after people complained for 3 days that their threads were getting deleted every time they posted about the exploit? Imagine that.